The Lost Diary

I am with you. This was a ho-hum episode. I like Juliet getting slapped by Sun and the baby was cute but other than that, meh....

Before reading this entry, I would like to say that Yunjin Kim's acting MADE this episode.

I agree, very dissapointing and I LOVE Jin and Sun. I don't think Jin is actually dead. The date of death on his tombstone is September 22, 2004.... Urg! I need something good. Hopefully next week will be better when we find out Michael's story after leaving the island.

The only good part of this whole episode is Juliet starting to show her TRUE colors. That was a Ben Locke move if I ever saw one with Sun. I think she is still working for or with Ben.

I will say this. I thought the episode was boring and predictable as well. It was, however, the only episode where I cried. I was pulling for Jin and Sun.

I liked the episode ... cried at the end. How could they kill Jin - dammit!!!

I thought it was a great episode. I love Lost and even think the bad episodes are good.I was blown away when I realized that they were doing a flashback and a flashforward at the same time. They had me fooled. I thought it was brilliant.

im still confused? who was Jin seeing in the hospital? was it Sun? and why did they tell him that the baby was boy? and why was he so stressed over a panda? i dont know.. I like Jin and am a bit sad if he rtruly is dead.. can anyone clarify for me???

jen23- Jin was running an errand for Sun's dad since it was a flashback and he was still working for him...

I didn't think it was THAT bad. Even a sub-par episode of Lost is still better than the best episodes of most other shows! And I try never to read spoilers so even though I thought it would be Michael on the boat, I wasn't sure. I can't wait to hear where Walt is and maybe see how Ben got Michael to work for him!

Yea. That episode was beyond sub-par. As soon as Locke said he had a spy on the boat I knew it would be Michael. Especially since they announced he would be making an appearance this season at comic-con.

What is up with the Jin thing? Is he really dead or was his part a flashback? I am so confused about that.

Personally I really liked this episode, MUCH better than last week!

I like that we found out that Sun got off, I kind of figured she would so that she could have the baby and not die, but it was nice to have that validated.

Secondly, I'm with several people that are not really sure if Jin's dead. I'm suspecting some type of coverup.

I LOVED when Sun slapped Juliet, she should have kicked the living daylights out of her, but being pregnant I suppose that's not okay. I HATE Juliet and I hope that she's the one who dies next week.

The Michael reveal was not surprising, we knew he was going to be back this season so not a big shocker.

Curious as to why the Captain is really such a big deal other than the fact that he works for Charles Whidmore and also why the woman offed herself. That was strange.

I can't really pinpoint one reason why I thought the episode was awesome, but I really liked it. I think because we see the baby and know that Sun is safe.

I do have to say I was very distraught and sobbing on the couch when I realized that Jin was dead.

One point to make is why did Hurley say "Good" when Sun asked him if anyone else was coming?

I LOVED this episode! I cried when they were at the grave....I'mSo glad Sun named her the name Jin wanted....why didn't anyone else come to see the baby? - only Hurley? I am so excited now to see how they do get off the island.... You may not have liked it but you have to admit that the writing for LOSt is the BEST on TV-hands down.
Also, I know it is TV but the most unrealistic part of this whole episode was how THIN Sun is after having a baby- NOT real life at all

jen23- Jin was running an errand for Sun's dad since it was a flashback and he was still working for him...

Reasons this episode didn't completely suck:
1. When Juliet busted out the affair info to Jin. I think my heart stopped. Made me question is she compassionate or heartless?
2. The answer Sayid got from the captain. Getting confirmation that people out there know that the crash was staged was pretty creepy. Knowing Ben has the power to get that type of craziness executed is even creepier.
3. I agree that the whole Michael reveal was "eh", but now he is a part of the story again and that's a big plus. We all knew he was coming back, so there wasn't really a mind-blowing way to reintroduce him.

unimpressed also... but have to admit, i was totally confused trying to realize if jin was a flashback or a flashforward...

episode made me hate juliet more than ever... she's beyond ruthless. she's so worried about sun being 'her patient', but then what happened to 'patient-client privelege'?

i do think that michael is working as a double agent... i think he is ben's man on the boat (especially after the previews show ben saying 'what wouldn't a man do to save his son') but at the same time he is also the one leaving the door open for sayid and des to uncover the truth without exposing that he is the one leading them to it... thus protecting walt from ben

can't figure out why regina was reading upside down and then killed herself, or why someone was shot in the head in the stateroom that is offered to sayid/des...

It was just ok....my first thought after the end was ...the dreaded DUI strikes again..you get one you die on this show ... and by the way who IS able to come up with over 300 dead bodies???? but I guess if you want to stage a plane crash you would have to know this stuff

I was hoping the "man on the boat" would be anyone but Michael. No surprise there. I cried at the end of the show...does this mean I am too emotionally invested?

Did anyone else notice the year of Jin's death on his gravestone? It's 2004. On the island, isn't it the very end of 2004? On the freighter, Sayid commented on it being Christmas Eve, and a couple days has passed since that. So for Jin to die in 2004, that would have to be in the next episode or two. And the preview for next week mentioned someone dying.....

even though everyone knew that michael would be the man on the boat and seemed upset at the predictability, i'm totally excited for his return - we NEED to know what happened to michael and walt after they left the island: how michael came to work for ben, michael's role on the boat and remember locke sees walt after he gets shot - what was that about? i'm pumped for michael (and hopefully walt) to be back in the storyline, no matter how many people knew it would happen.

according to Lostpedia, the date of death on Jin's tombstone was Sept. 22, 2004; which is the day the plane crashed. Looks to me like the story the 6 are telling is that Jin died in the crash.

Sorry, I can't give you any reasons to love this episode. I think Jin is dead. Why would Hurley and Sun go to his grave and weep if he wasn't really dead. Why not just say, Gee I wish he was here and not stuck on the island being held hostage (like I think most of the survivors are).

I usually like every episode, even the one starring the blue van, but this episode really dissapointed.

Okay, now that I've read your thoughts, here are some of mine:

1. I think Jin counts as one of the Oceanic 6, because he died somehow after they got off the island. Which would explain why he is buried where he is buried.

2. I agree, the episode was a bit of a let down. I still thought Yunjin Kim was amazing in it. The force of personality that she gave Sun kept me at least somewhat interested in a mediocre episode.

3. Hahaha, Hurley's flashforward hair.

Amy Sept. 22, 2004 is when the plane crashed. It's part of the cover up.

Okay, I didn't see all the other entries before posting my previous comment. I didn't catch the entire date of Jin's death - if it was September, now I am really confused! As if I wasn't already....

Daniel, I am with you. It SUCKED. It was just poorly written. One of the best things about this show if how they take seemingly normal moments and totally creep you out and just when you think you've figured it out, they pull the rug out from under you. This episode sorta tried to do this but for me, it failed. I am one of those people who usually says there is no such thing as a bad lost episode but for me this was! How can they go from such a great episode like the constant and then to a pretty ok The Other Woman and then into this mess? I am keeping my fingers crossed for a great episode next week!

Was anyone else bursting into tears as he asked if the baby was his?!?!

I was bored the first half and barely interested the second half. I agree, Daniel, the trickery was lame. I too thought Jin was one of the O6 and was surprised he wasn't after all. I hated this episode even more when they revealed Jin is dead. I cried way more at that than at the whole Penny/Des thing.

What was that with Regina throwig herself off the freighter? Seemed kind of arbitrary. To be honest I didn't even care that much.

Oh well, maybe next time.

Not my favorite episode but I was SO excited to see Zoe Bell, then PISSED cause she d*mn killed herself before the end of her first episode. She would have been great as a recurring character.

CAM- ok so he didnt know the woman who had the baby??

I think Jin didn't make it off of the island...his tomb stone had the date of the Oceanic flight crash.

talk about karma... bernard thinks jin is so great, but when he's explaining that 'you do bad things, bad things happen', i instantly thought of jin killing jae lee...

did you notice right after that, the next scene showed the freighter, who's name is KARMA

You know when I saw Jin's phone get run over, I thought, "Wow, what a crappy phone." I should have known. They did the same thing in the season finale-flashforward with Jack's phone, which wouldn't have been available in 2004.

since we all know that every detail means something, why did the chick throw herself off the boat, what happened in the kitchen to cause frank to bring only lima beans, and who shot themselves in the stateroom?

why were des and sayid being guarded one minute and then freed the next?

I was just surprised that we are supposed to believe that Jin was born in 1980. That is what his tombstone said, no?

I am really pissed that Jin dies. THis episode sucked for me!!!

We still don't know who the 6 are for sure!!!!

Woulda been hella better if the Panda exploded in the ambassadors face :) Would have added the reluctant evil back to Jin and put everyone back in their place about what a "good guy" he is (remember, he used to beat men bloody for Suns daddy, and was super mean to Sun too...)

Jin can't be dead .The way Sun was "acting" has to mean she is covering up something .

I'm a lost newbie, but a friend pointed out to me that Jin's tombstome said Sept. 22,2004, wasn't that the day of the plane crash..? So he could be alive...right?
Thanks for doing this every week, I really enjoy it and it helps us newbie's catch up!

I like the episode and love Daniel's recaps. I know we've been shown that Michael is on the boat but I'm still not so sure he's Ben's guy on the boat..........

When hurley asked Sun if anyone else was coming (i assumed anyone else from the 06) she said 'no' and he said, 'good'.

i thought that was weird...

I'm a lost newbie, but a friend pointed out to me that Jin's tombstome said Sept. 22,2004, wasn't that the day of the plane crash..? So he could be alive...right?
Thanks for doing this every week, I really enjoy it and it helps us newbie's catch up!

QUOTE: 9:10 -- Kate is trying to explain what went on with Faraday and Charlotte. I hate when people on this show explain things to other people on the show. Can't we just skip all that?

---One thing I WILL say is that if they DIDN'T show Kate telling Sun this, and then Sun just knew it, we would all be saying "How did she know that, she wasn't there", etc .. so seeing that it was a tiny sentence or two, it didn't bother me.

I thought this episode was better than a "D" ... ANYTHING is better than last week's boring episode. (It's really sad when I get more excited about the next week's previews over the entire episode, which happened last week). Michael being there was no surprise (but I WOULD like to know why he's saying he's someone different ... is HE the last of the "Oceanic 6"? Last week they said that we'll "find out the last of" them.

I can't see Jin staying on the island and letting his pregnant wife leave, especially after he just forgave her for cheating on him. The date on the grave says the date of the crash .. which means something happens and they're covering it up. Why, I'm not sure.

I thought Jin was alive and that he got of the island some other way. Or he is living in a diffrent year and needs to find his constant, I think he's still alive.

did you notice right after that, the next scene showed the freighter, who's name is KARMA

The freighter's name is KAHANA not Karma.

Jin apparently does not make it off the island - what remains to be seen is whether he actually dies or whether he is simply left behind and part of the cover up the Oceanic 6 are involved in. When I noted that the date of Jin's death on the headstone read 9/22/04, I began wondering if he was actually going to die at some point and then simply become one of those who did not survive according to Jack's courtroom testimony - obviously that seems to the 'date of death' for those who 'did not survive'. I love this show, but I am with Daniel on this one. I was also amazed by Desmond's total lack of WTF when he heard the boat belonged to Charles Widmore. I would have expected a bit more of a reaction out of him.

the michael reveal was so dissappointing. I always gave the lost writers more credit than that. I really didn't think it was going to be michael. I completely agree with Daniel about with Jin/sun child birth scene. That was purposely done to fool the veiwer and I didn't appreciate it. I was actually angry at the end of that scene. But, the end was sad. I'll admit it; I cried. But all and all a pretty okay episode. Hopefully next week is better.

I'm a lost newbie, but a friend pointed out to me that Jin's tombstome said Sept. 22,2004, wasn't that the day of the plane crash..? So he could be alive...right?
Thanks for doing this every week, I really enjoy it and it helps us newbie's catch up!

I thought Jin was alive and that he got of the island some other way. Or he is living in a diffrent year and needs to find his constant, I think he's still alive.

This wasn't exactly the most mind blowing episode, but I think it was great for several reasons. 1) The characters actually communicated and there was more honesty and actual answers from all of them 2) Sun and Jin rock! To show how far they have come in their marriage and the true love they have for each other was nice 3) Juliet telling Jin was a jaw dropper moment and Sun slapping her was a cheer moment 4) We all knew Michael was on the boat, so at least we got that "reveal" out of the way and can move on 4)Sun and Hurley at the cemetary was so sad and well acted by Sun 5)Juliet is a very Ben-like character. We may see that they are both good people with good intentions they just both go aobut it in a very dark way

I thought Jin was alive and that he got of the island some other way. Or he is living in a diffrent year and needs to find his constant, I think he's still alive.

the michael reveal was so dissappointing. I always gave the lost writers more credit than that. I really didn't think it was going to be michael. I completely agree with Daniel about with Jin/sun child birth scene. That was purposely done to fool the veiwer and I didn't appreciate it. I was actually angry at the end of that scene. But, the end was sad. I'll admit it; I cried. But all and all a pretty okay episode. Hopefully next week is better.

I thought Jin was alive and that he got of the island some other way. Or he is living in a diffrent year and needs to find his constant, I think he's still alive.

Okay, I understand the dislike for this episode because I had the same feelings, but something that hasn't been brought by anyone is the reveal of the timeline. We now know they, or at least Sun, gets off the island in the next 3-4 weeks because as Juliet said pregnant women die in their second trimester and that is in 3-4 weeks for Sun.

Jin has to be one of the two survivors who died on the island. He had to survive to impregnate Sun.

I think we are going to find out a lot more about the freighter, the blood stain, Regina's craziness and everything else next week in Michael's episode. All those weird things were just setting us up...

Sidenote: the captains a looker, huh ladies?

I thought Jin was alive and that he got of the island some other way. Or he is living in a diffrent year and needs to find his constant, I think he's still alive.

I actually really liked this episode. I am totally turning into a geek Lostee! I now watch with a pad and pencil. So this is what I picked up from last night.

Why the Panda? I think it is probably the symbol for the year 2004. Kind of like the year of the Dragon and so on.

The ship is named the Kahana. This is a Hawaiian name so may just be because Lost is filmed there and the boat was available. The ship is real and listed by the name Kahana USA ship built in 1981 in the World Shipping Register. However, the name means, "drawing the line", and "turning point" so could have some meaning.

The woman that jumped overboard seen holding a book upside down (to make it harder to identify the name?) was reading "The Survivors of the Chancellor: Diary of J. R. Kazallon, Passenger by Jules Vern. This is a classic adventure novel about a ship lost at sea. Could this of had anything to do with her jumping overboard? Something she read in the book maybe. Yeah, and don't ask how I got the name of the book. LOL Wasn't easy. Involved pausing and lying on the floor looking upside down at the tv.

Remember back, not sure of episode, that the Hanso Foundation and Paik Heavy Industries are connected. A conversation where Paik says that Hanso is upset that it is taking so long to get the "fake" permit. What was this fake permit for?

Last, Jin's tombstone had the date of his death as 9/22/04. The date the plane crashed. So I personally believe that Jin is still alive. At the gravesite Sun didn't say he was dead only that she wished he were there.

Lastly there is an article in the new TV Guide that gives a few things away.

Jin has to be one of the two survivors who died on the island. He had to survive to impregnate Sun.

The freighter is called KAHANA not Karma.

Loved it. Loved seeing Jin nake the full turn around to being a 'good guy', after all he had done working for Sun's dad. From insisting she walk behind him, to saying "I go where Sun go"... just beautiful.

Juliette - cold as ice. Painful when she told Jin Sun's secret! Harsh!!!

The whole end - Hurley, the grave, the name, just beautiful.

Why would Hurley say 'good' when he found out no one else was there? Did Jin really die, or is he on the island still with those who could not leave? Maybe everyone thinks they are dead but they are not? Why else would scary Abbadon say "Are they alive?" to Hurley in the mental hospital?

It wa snice to see that Sun has the baby and is safe. We are getting little answers and resolutions as we get closer to the end.... AND as we get more confusing tid bits to keep us holding on! Love this show!

ah ha! upon reading some other blogs.. i get it now!! well i dont think the ep. sucked... got me amazed as always!!

I thought Jin was alive and that he got of the island some other way. Or he is living in a diffrent year and needs to find his constant, I think he's still alive.

I usually agree with Daniel on his Episode grading system, but I actually liked this episode some, and give it a sturdy B minus, which ryhmes with Linus!

I thought I figured out that Jin was in a flashback when I saw his cell phone. Man, that thing was huge! Plus, the clerk at the toy store (was that the dude from Eli Stone too?) said it was "The Year of the Dragon" which was 2000, so I knew it was the past. I just didn't know why it was the past, and I'm not sure what the point of that was, other than to play with the viewers emotions.

Is Jin dead? Well, of course his grave seems to be merely a marker. I think that Jin has to have died on the island or in the process of getting off, otherwise Sun and Hurley (Cut that hair man) wouldn't be visiting the grave. That makes no sense to me, unless he's really dead.

I thought one of the more redeming parts of the show was the conversation with the captain about the mock-crash, black box, Ben thing. I'm very interested in how this plays out. Was he saying that Ben staged the crash, or was he saying something else?

Finally, I feel a little relieved that it was Michael on the boat. Granted, it wasn't revealed that he was the spy yet, but I still got validation because now maybe all the talk about Ben being his own man on the boat can stop! Or Locke, or Charlie, or any of the other impossible things.

So much more, but that's all for now.

Here is the big question for me right now....who is the good guy, Ben or Widmore? Who is forcing the Oceanic 6 to lie about how many people were rescued and why? I think it is Widmore, because he had the boat and the helicopter, but I still think Ben has other "ways" to get off the island.

Is Regina the R.G. from the inscription on Naomi's braclet? Maybe Naomi's death was too much for her.

Right when Sayid picks up the note he says something about “being in Locke’s camp 3 days earlier, and that Ben went to the boat and”…did something. What exactly did he say? Did I mis-hear? Did anybody catch this, and what does he mean?!

Perhaps the FB Ambassador that Jin gave the Panda to will show up in the future… related to Dharma?

Not a bad episode. I liked that the Captain gave straight answers (without them cutting away to commercial right before he says Charles Widmore!)

it was a boring show this week. One positive, it's confirmed Michael is the man on the boat, which most of us guessed, however, yet many of us debated if it was Sayid. Also answered the question about the other plan and the victims.

"Jin has to be one of the two survivors who died on the island. He had to survive to impregnate Sun."

He can't be one of the 8 who survived initially but died before rescue if his tombstone has the date of the crash as the day he died!

I'm curious not just to know where the 300+ bodies come from for the staged crash, but how it works since in real iife identities are confirmed by dental records and such, and they won't have anything like.
and yes...I know this is not real life.

People pleeeeease ... it must be Michael. It is the only thing that makes logical sense. Why would you say you think the lost writers would have done better? Yes they are unpredictable but they are not stupid. Things have to flow AND make sense.

I was aghast to hear people thinking it was Charlie or Boone on the boat. Then there were the other theories about it being Mr. Eko, Locke and/or Ben. PLEASE!!

It has to make sense ...

Halfway through this episode I realized NOTHING was happening. To be honest, I was getting bored. I usually really love Jin and Sun episodes so this was a big let down. And Hurley went all the way to Korea (in a suit) to visit Jin's grave with Sun? I thought it was gonna be some sort of particular memorial or event.....but nope. Just all dressed up to visit a grave (that is probably empty) The date of 9/22/04 on the tombstone....so obviously the story is Jin died in the crash or shortly there after ( one of the 8 from Jacks story at Kates trial?) All in all, I thought this episode was pointless. Michael showing up didnt surprise me at all. It was sooooo predictable. Come on LOST! Next week better be good.....

at least we know now that Frank is right that his buddy wasn't flying the plane (the wedding ring issue) and it was staged...

ben's got a lot of bodies on his conscience... wouldn't want to be him on judgment day.

just a guess....Jin dies soon. The actor who played him got that DUI in Hawaii. That's what happened to the other two actors.

my guess is that Jin dies off the island (maybe on the boat) and that is why he has a grave. He would be one of the 8 who survived the crash, but not one of the 6 rescued.

Ok, I enjoyed this episode...especially after last weeks dud. Even though it was predictable for me....I knew that Juliet was going to get slapped....I also kept telling my husband that Jin is either dreaming or it's a flasback. Here were my clues: He was clearly wearing a wig to make his hair look shorter, and even in a style that is not current, and the phone that got run over, was totally an older phone...the thing was huge!

He may be one of the Oceanic 6, because why would Sun visit a grave in which he was not burried? But maybe they bring his body back, give him the date of the crash as his DOD, and it is part of the Oceanic 6 cover up. So there still may be a 6th survivor.

OH! Wait! What if the eight survivor's of the crash are Jin, Sun, Kate, Hurley, Jack, Sayid, Michael & Walt, and then it's Jin and Walt who don't make it? Something to ponder.

Lastly, I think the captain looks a lot like the guy who Charles Widmore ruffed up last week on that video that Ben showed Locke.

LOVE reading all your posts. =^)

Jin was born in 1974 according to his tombstone.

I just start watching Lost. I have all 3 seasons on DVD and watched them all in one weekend. I am truly addicted to this show. But it pisses me off everytime I watch. I get more and more confused every episode and I continue to watch to see if the next episode will explain and clear everything up!!!! I AM SO CONFUSED!!!

Just off the top of my head, reasons the episode didn't suck

1. Sun and Juliet's confrontation.

2. Sun and Jin full reconciliation, no secrets and both have "repented" - an island theme

3. Jin's fate is masked by a tombstone with a fake death date

4. Oceanic 6 is completely revealed

5. Michael re-introduced, now we can get on with his story and what's been going on

6. Play on the word "Karma" - kind of fits with the repent or punish theme of the Island (Mr. Echo, for example)

7. Captain of Karma has been introduced - and all we know is not to trust him. Does this mean he's lying about Ben being the person who staged the crash wreckage? Or - is he covering for his boss who really staged the wreckage? Remember - Sayid has been admonished by future-Ben for "thinking with his heart" and something happens that makes him come work for Ben, so something big is coming up somewhere and it may involve the captain since we've been warned.

8. Future timeline better identified: Sun has baby and Kate has trial before Hurley or Jack flip out, Hurly then flips out first and last Jack does his Grizzly Adams look-alike almost suicide attempt flip out. Not sure where Sayids future comes in on this timeline.

We now have the stucture of the Oceanic 6 and can begin to find out why they start going nuts and whose left on the island and why they need saving. All and all I'd say it's a good "moving forward at full steam" episode. I think everyone else is still let down from the near-perfect Des/Penny epi and want them all to be that good :) :)

1. dont hate JULIET!! That was the ONLY was she could kep Sun from walking away from camp and therefore DYING. She saved her life.

2. I think Sun crying at the grave was real tears because i doubt that she knows that he may still be alive (with all the rest) that are still stuck on the island that Jack is trying desparately to get back to. Hurley probably knows but not Sun apparently. Unless she knows that he is still there and can never get back to her so he may as well be dead. JMO.

You beat me ME Too! - Yes, Jin DOB was 1974. The date on the other side said 1980. I took that to maybe be Sun's birth year, as perhaps it's a tombstone for the both of them. When she dies, she'll be buried there too.

Of course, I don't know anything about Korean headstones, so this date could be something else.

Some thoughts:

What if Regina wasn’t killing herself but lowering herself down to the Looking Glass Dharma station, underwater??? Is that possible, or are they far too offshore for that?

I think Sun actually did think Jin would be at the hospital, and for that to be possible, he has to be alive. I really think he’s not dead, just part of the cover-up. Possibly he is in hiding from his father-in-law Mr. Paik, who perhaps helped finance the search (and coverup) with Widmore.

Also, you don’t need 324 dead people to fake a crash, just a fake recovery team and some crafty footage.

Did the captain remind anyone else of the guy from “Amazing Race”? I kept thinking he would say, “Desond and Sayid… you are… the winners of… Amazing Race!”

Anyway, any episode of Lost that doesn’t have Bai Ling in it automatically gets 4 stars from me.

Does this mean that the person in the coffin is or isn't Jin? I am definitely disamppointed in this one. I do think that Jin is dead. Main reason is he would have never left Sun. He even said that.

I sat here this morning for a minute trying to remember the Lost episode.
For a brief moment I thought oh no that isn't until Tonight. Wrong.
I agree that this episode was a bust. When you can't remember what happened
and then realize that you are no further ahead than last week...

I did think that Yunjin Kim should be considered for an Emmy for her performance. Remember that she also has to act in two languages .

Thanks for the blog. I can't wait to read it every Friday morning.

Hugh
Ontario , Canada

I just want to say that I enjoy reading all of your comments and appreciate all the insights. Going through these definitely has softened my view on this episode now do not feel it was as awful as I had initially thought. This show is still the best television has to offer. By the way, Me Too, thanks for your obsession!!! I think we all garnered some great info from the nuances you discovered in this episode. Kudos!!

Did anyone notice how quickly Sun lost her accent when speaking English. All of a sudden Sun is speaking English with a full blown American accent. crazy. It's the little details that count with me that keep the show believable.

They shouldn't have buried Jin...they should've buried last night's episode instead!

Sun could have gotten pregnant, say, the night before the crash. You can fake a few weeks of being pregnant by saying it was delivered early. If Jin died a few days after the crash, his death date would have reflected that. Its a cover up. He's still on the island probably working for Ben, so that Ben made sure Sun got off the island. Obviously "what man wouldnt do anything for his son" also applies to "What man wouldnt do anything for his wife and child"

goodfeke Sorry to disagree but Sun does know he's still alive since the date of his date is the date of the plane crash. She knows he didn't die in the crash. But, how to explain baby when she got PG on the island and Jin is supposed to be dead?

I have a question about the flash forwards (i haven't read everyone's comments yet, so i apologize if this is a repeat).

Are all of the flash forwards supposed to be the same time? I only ask because it doesn't make sense if they are. Aaron looks to be about 2-3 years old. But Sun just had her baby. Last night, she told Faraday that she was only 2 months pregnant.

Any ideas?

Jen, Jin didnt say he would never leave Sun. He said he would do WHATEVER he had to do to make sure her and the baby were safe. He very likely would have stayed behind if it meant his wife and child would live....

Jen, Jin didnt say he would never leave Sun. He said he would do WHATEVER he had to do to make sure her and the baby were safe. He very likely would have stayed behind if it meant his wife and child would live....

I'm 50/50 on this episode. I love the freighter scenes and was hoping after every commercial break they would go back there. Even though I knew Michael would be on this show, I was totally excited to see when they revealed him, and even thought I don't like this character, having him back will be great to the storyline.

I was totally fooled on the Jin FlashBACK. I missed the 'year of the dragon' clue that would reference the flashback.

Not sure if anyone brought this up yet, but if Michael is working with Ben who we assume is 'bad' and he tells Desmond/Sayid that the Captain is 'bad' who do we believe?!?! I'm on the Captain's side.

Gina, no the flashfowards are all over the place. Some are one year from now, some are three years from now. We don't have enough info to really put the timeline together, but we're getting closer every week.

WEAK.

My only hope with this one is that it somehow set up future episodes.
Can't say I was even remotely surprised to see Michael on the boat.

My only thoughts are that Jin is not dead, he is just on the island still with everyone else. This would make it even harder for Sun knowing that she is away from Jin and having to pretend that he is dead because of the whole "Only 6 of us survived" deal they have.

how the heck does someone get 324 dead bodies to put in the fake plane? the first thing i thought of was maybe Ben (if he's the one who set it up in the first place) used the Dharma people killed in the purge, but that was years ago and i'm pretty sure there wasn't that many of them to begin with. i'd like to have an episode where more questions are answered than new ones asked.

Brian, the people killed in the purge were in the pit that Ben pushed Locke into in the season finale last year. Remember when Locke was shot he was laying amount skeletons? Those were the ones killed in the purge

This is the point in every Lost season where I get frustrated and give up, stop watching, then get sucked back in in time for the season finale. These plodding, filler episodes don't do anything to move the story. Lost is becoming The Best Story That Could Have Been Told In Two Hours.

The captain's plain-spoken explanation of the faux plane crash was refreshing. We need more of that.

I think Regina (the girl who had the heavy chains on her that went off the boat) was trying to sink herself to the bottom as there is probably one of those underground things that Charlie & Desmond were in earlier. That's why the Captain and the crew members didn't think much of her going overboard.

I can't say I LOVED the episode, and I do agree that the "big reveals" we've gotten so far this season are all pretty much the worst kept secrets in Lost history. I knew it was Michael on the boat (no spoilers, just an educated guess) but I was curious to see how they were going to introduce him.

I didn't 100% hate the episode though...there were tiny moments between characters that made it watchable and interesting for me. For example, the whole scene when Juliet "outed" Sun's affair was heart wrenching and infuriating. And when Jin showed up in Sun's tent with dinner....wow. Beautiful. I also liked the whole scene between Desmond, Sayid, and Michael...it was so tense and surprising watching them introduce themselves.

So Daniel, I can't give you a good reason why this episode wasn't completely terrible, but I will say this...Lost is like pizza, even when it's bad, its still pretty good. :-)

Hope you all had a great week! TGIF!

"Jin dies soon. The actor who played him got that DUI in Hawaii. That's what happened to the other two actors."

Anna Lucia & Eko both only had ONE YEAR CONTRACTS. They were never meant to be on Lost any longer. Their DUI's had NOTHING to do with them dying on the show.

Do we really know who the O6 are now? Jack, Kate, Sun, Hurley, Sayid are the ones we can be sure of. Everyone has been saying Aaron doesn't count since he wasn't on the manifest, which I agree with. I don't think Michael counts as one of the O6 because (a) He's presenting himself as Kevin Johnson now and (b) no way will he go back to civilization without his son. They did not show Michael in a flashforward as they did every other one of the O6. The only other person who has been shown in a flash forward is CHARLIE, whose body apparently has never been recovered. Sure, he told Hurley he was dead, but then again, Hurley was in a mental hospital at the time so who knows . . .

Where is the helicopter? Picking up the Oceanic 6? I hope so.

I wonder if the Lost cast has realized DUI = killed off show.
I hated last night's episode, but there were some redeeming qualities (it was a Jin/Sun episode, Juliet got bitchslapped, and we find out Ben is believed to have staged the salvage/death of the 324 passengers).
I wonder if we'll find out what was on the black box and really why does Charles Widmore care about finding it? He doesn't seem like the kind of guy that would care all that much. So why does he hate Ben? and who are we supposed to be rooting for?
And why wasn't Desmond surprised it was a Widmore boat after all - just the wrong Widmore's?

goodfeke. Sorry, after reading more posts about how Jin could have gotten PG before the crash you have a point. But still sticking with Sun knowing Jin is alive since he did survive crash and tombstone has his death as date of the crash.

I originally thought that juliet lied to sun that she conceived the baby on the island. I always believed the baby to be jae lee's (guess I just have never trusted juliet)... I figured she was going to play both sides, telling sun that the baby was jin's, and telling ben that she had succeeded in 'fixing' the pregnant women with sun's pregnancy going full term (because it was conceived off the island)... but I guess I was wrong if the baby looks just like jin?

I swear, Juliet is still not to be trusted, no matter what. Why did she tell Jack that the station was a radio station and come to find out it was poison gas station? Why is she always telling half-truths unless she's guilty of something and trying to still cover it up (Sun's pregnancy truth? Still a double agent for Ben?)

The name of the boat is not Karma - it is Kahana. We though it was Karma too but then freeze-framed it.

I am with you, Daniel. The whole Jin flashback felt so contrived and dishonest. I noticed his phone, too, but didn't make the connection until later.

My first thought, because I give the writers a lot of credit for repeatedly blowing my mind, was that this was not a combo flashback-forward, but somehow Jin's story was still a flashforward, like there are parallel timelines running here. However, with all of the clues that I missed that he was definitely in 2000, never mind.

I have to say that Daniel Dae Kim is the hottest guy on the show. I love Jin! I cried when I thought he had died (in the finale last season) and I cried last night. I hold onto hope that he is not really dead.

i haven't had the time to read all the rest of the comments so i dont know if its been brought up, but what if Jin is actually still alive and Sun believes him to be dead. just an idea

When Regina jumped off the ship with chains on, my first thought was that she had weighted herself down to get to some underwater place more quickly...kinda like where Charlie went? I guess they're too far from the island for that to make sense, but when no one else reacted at all, I thought maybe she wasn't committing suicide?? I dunno - just a thought.

Jin has to be one of the 8 original survivors -- how else do they explain Sun's pregnancy? Jin and Claire survive the crash but do not get off the island alive. I think they both died getting off the island (no Constant for them when they zip "back" to civilization??) so that's why Sun can go to a grave (their bodies survived) and why Claire "gave up" her baby (something she would never have done normally). Jack probably picked the wrong route back or screwed the route up so that's why he feels responsible and therefore can't see Aaron -- or go to Korea to see Sun and her baby with Hugo. I loved parts of the episode (Sun/Jin/Juliet) and cried a little when I realized Jin was dead - but the whole Michael reveal was a total disappointing waste. I was CONVINCED it would be someone FABULOUS (like an older Walt or maybe even LOCKE!!). Hope the next show is better!!

also, there's a recurring theme... good v bad. First it was Losties v Others, and Ben said that he wasn't the one killing people (shifting to look like the Losties were the bad ones), now its the Freighter People (Whidmore) v. Ben and again, Ben presents this dossiere to Locke about Whidmore trying to exploit the island.

The captain was so forthcoming about information, it makes me uneasy! Furthermore, he never played the tape from the black box, and I'd like to hear how Ben constructed the audio for a plane crash (which is available on a plane's black box)... since he didn't playback the recorder, is it really the black box? Is the note real that the captain is not to be trusted? Or is it Ben?

Jury is still out... something tells me to stick with Ben.

Maybe Sun is crying because she misses Jin and know they have to stay apart because of whatever happens on the island? She and Hurley are visiting the grave to show they are playing along.

From lostpedia:
The relationship was shaken up even more by the fact that the two were unable to have a child. A doctor told them it was because of Sun, but later spoke to Sun on the street and told her Jin was infertile. Sun hid this fact from Jin.

i'm confused about something...when jin was leaving the hospital did he tell the attendant that he was leaving cuz it wasnt his baby, that his wife was only 2 months pregnant?? or did i just imagine that last part?

If Jis was 1 of the 8 initial survivors but not part of the "Oceanic 6," wouldn't his date of death b AFTER 09/22/2004? Sun finds out she conceived 8 weeks ago (when Juliet took her 2 the station 4 the ultrasound), making her conception date sometime in late September/early October. Jin's date of death would have 2 b AFTER Sun conceives, so does his 09/22/2004 date of death rule him out as part of the initial Oceanic survivors (the 8)?

I was a bit confused, they got me with the the flashforward/back. I think Kate couldn't go see Sun's baby cause she's a convict and can't leave the state. Jack is probably feeling guilty which we knows will weigh heavy on him later on. She's two months pregnant now on the island so we know it's been about seven months since they've been off the island when Sun gives birth.

Not one of the better episodes. Sayid and Desmond got a note saying to not trust the captain. So why believe his story about the plane wreckage and all the dead passengers being found? Maybe Whitmore owns Oceanic airlines and is involved in that story (as a cover-up) in some way.

Jin's dead. Why would they go to the grave? To fool whom? And her tears are real. Who would she be trying to fool? Hurley or the baby?
I want to know who was in the coffin back in the states. Who would die, and have no visitors...except for Jack. And he didn't really care that much. Michael? You know Locke isn't leaving the island.

The HOT Captain (!) proved he's not to be trusted by covering up the Regina-thing. I think she was headed to the Looking Glass. Who knows where they are out to sea, they mentioned the pull of the island, they could be near the Looking Glass, couldn't they (but wait, then Des and Charlie would have seen the freighter parked there, right)? But who trusts a Captain who nonchalantely watches a crewmate commit suicide? Odd... very odd. I don't trust his explanation, too forthcoming to complete strangers that he was keeping under lock and key. Suspicious.

Ok the show sucked. I HATED the flash forward / Backward B.S. But what I hated more was killing Jin. Jin has evolved to be on of my favorites.

Was I seeing things or was it Jin that Sun saw in the hallway as she was getting ready to deliver? She was in a panic saying she couldn't do it, looked up and saw Jin and then popped the baby out. Did anyone else see this or I was doing some wishful thinking that they simply COULD NOT kill Jin?

Maybe Hurley says 'good' about no one coming to see the baby because he knows jin is not dead, but is putting on a front like he is (even to Sun)... I mean, it was Abbadon that asked Hurley 'are they alive' and Hurley instantly clammed up. He's covering something up, I think he's the only one that knows that they are all fine and this is his one time to not get 'Scooby Dooed' and he's going to save the day -just like he did with the VW van.

I think its odd that he flies to Korea in a suit and goes to the cemetary with Sun. To me it was a setup to 'look' like Jin is really dead, as if they are being watched (presumably by Abbadon).

I agree w/some of the posters:Just because Michael is on the boat (which we all knew) does not mean he is Ben's man. Jen is dead-we don't know if he died on the island or got off and then died (or if he is dead?) Do the dates on the tombstone really confirm anything? I think a show that makes you ask more questions-can't be all that bad! If you want all the answers at once- wait till the show is over and watch all the dvd's! Love that my un-trustworthy Juliet showed back up! Did she want to keep them on the beach for the baby's sake, or is there a hidden reason to keep everyone put? Is she still working for Ben?

Okay, its been 3 episodes without Sawyer. I am getting cranky.

Nikki- Sun thought she saw Jin, but it wasn't him... sorry. :( I LOVE Jin too.

It appears to me that Jack, Kate, Hurley, Sayid, and Sun are 5 of the Oceanic 6. Michael could be the 6th member, which would add credence to his being the man in the coffin from NY as well as fulfill the claim that all 6 have been revealed as of last night's episode. The remaining 2 that round out the 8 mentioned by Jack during Kate's trial I presume to be Jin and Claire, as they would support the births of Aaron and Ji Yeon. However, these two do not necessarily have to be dead and could still be alive on the island since Jack's testimony is false to begin with.

As an aside, has anyone else thought the Blackrock ledger could be used as a constant?

I don't think Jin is really dead. I think Sun going to the grave served a purpose--to create a show for anyone who might be watching her (reference back to Abaddonn asking Hurley "Are the alive?"). If Jin were alive, and we've been led to believe that there are others alive on the island still, perhaps she did it to ensure Jin's safety. She did say she "wished he could be here", which could be either he's dead or he's on the island. It would be very emotional either way...Jin was not around for the birth of his baby. I think Hurley's actions also point to Jin being alive. And now that I think of it, it also helps explain why Sayid is working for Ben in the future.

Michael's reveal as the guy on the boat would have been an enormous surprise if we didn't know that his character was returning this season. I would have liked not knowing that the character was returning at all. Of course, I'm also the kind of person who doesn't read the back of books and avoids previews. I love being shocked.

If everyone on that boat now knows there were more than 6 survivors from the crash, why would they keep the big secret also? Is it safe to assume that the boat guys dont make it back either? Will there be some all out war between everybody?

Here are a couple of thoughts for me:

1. Daniel you are a bit too critical of the shows. I agree with another poster..take it as entertainment and enjoy it. It still is better than most shows out there!

2. Michael's reveal wasn't huge, but remember Locke saw Walt when he was in the mass grave there? I think Locke thinks he imagined him. What if Ben still has Walt on the island and that is what is forcing him to do things? In the reveal for next week, Ben said "what would a man do for his son?" so that kind of reinforces for me that Ben has Walt and Michael doesn't have a choice. I know it looked like Michael sailed away with Walt, but now I am doubting he got very far.

3. Also was Jin or wasn't Jin part of the Oceanic 6? Maybe it wasn't always the Oceanic 6! Maybe more than that actually made it off, but "now" there are only 6.

4. I liked the flashforward and flashback in the same show. I was almost relieved that Jin was dead because I knew that he wasn't going to see Sun and I would have been pissed if off the island they weren't together. It was an interesting concept and I liked it.

5. I am interested to know why and how Jin dies and if they ever reveal it?

6. Why did Hurley say "good" when Sun said no one else was coming? Who doesn't he want there and why?

7. When will Jack find out that Clarie is his sister? You know he will and is she the one to die next week?

Overall I love Lost period so every episode is pretty good for me!

Seems I'm the only one who doesn't hate Juliet. She has her reasons for half-truths but think she's ok.
Michael - why oh why does it have to be him??
Where to find bodies - oh, how about the mass grave leftovers Locke fell into.

Worst episode ever. It better be awesome next week.

Did anyone notice the guy that took Jin's cab in his flashback? It looked like he was wearing glasses? Could it have been Ben? or am I totally losing my mind? Any thoughts?

Hated it. Boring. D- episode.

I wasn't crazy about last nights episode but I didn't hate it either. Sun made me cry at the end & I practically never cry at the TV.

The only thing that really caught my attention was Hurley's reaction to no one else coming for Sun & the baby.

I think we now know why Ben had to get the flight's manifest was such a priority. He had to know who was on the plane so he could find the appropriate dead stand in for the passengers.
The purge victims would be perfect for this. Being underwater for as long as they (flight 815) were (would have been if it were true)their bodies would decay faster & be eaten away by the marine life leaving pretty much skeletons to be discovered.

As to why Sun went to the grave stone.... other than being used a device to show us Jin was dead ... (this is probably a little too silly to be true but it is possible even though probably not probable...) It could be that there is a communication device in there so that Jin can hear about the baby & Sun.
It would be natural that the wife & daughter of a dead man visit a grave stone often and it wouldn't be conspicuous if she went there & talked to him. It wouldn't draw attention.

And if Ben really can pull together a replacement crash to cover for the island, it wouldn't be completely unreasonable to think he could manage to rig up a link between Sun & Jin if it meant that Jin would stay to do Ben's work.
The whole island is wired.
he has recieved video feeds from the outside world in the past. . .
I'm just sayin'...

i'm confused about something...when jin was leaving the hospital did he tell the attendant that he was leaving cuz it wasnt his baby, that his wife was only 2 months pregnant?? or did i just imagine that last part?

Posted by: buttercup | March 14, 2008 07:58 AM

He said... "don't rush me, I've only been married 2 months' It was a flashback

I too thought the episode was ok, but nothing that memorable about it. Unfortunately there are going to be some episodes where the plot is moved along and nothing really exciting happens. That's necessary. We did get more information, even though most of it was predictable.

I think that's what disappoints most people, is that it was all predictable. The flashback (you could tell by some simple clues, i.e. his hair, his ancient cell phone), Widmore, Michael, etc.

The answer I'm most looking forward to out of this episode is where the 324 bodies came from, and how are they going to look similar to the real passengers....

I don't think this episode sucked. Sun's grief was apparent, juliet's betrayal was great, and whenever you get to see Sayid is a good day-so I enjoyed it-maybe not as much as two weeks ago with desmond and penny but definitely better than last weeks!

PLEASE READ THE COMMENTS BEFORE POSTING A COMMENT OF YOUR OWN.
I must have read that the date of death was 9/22/04 about 15 times

OMG.....Juliet getting slapped was PRICELESS

calm down HINT, sometimes things get posted while you are writing your own post and you don't know.

I don't think that Jin can be one of the oceanic 6 as his tombstone said he died on 9/22/04 which I think is the date that the plane went down, meaning he did not make it off of the island? Would that leave Aaron as the sixth?

I made the stupid mistake of visiting another Lost site earlier in the week and stumbled across a MAJOR spoiler about this episode. (BAD Suze, BAD!) I thought it might be a little tid-bit of information, but it was the WHOLE episode in outline form.UGH. TOTALLY bummed me out and I will never read a spoiler again.

Just a few thoughts...IMO, Jin can't be part of the Oceanic 6....his tombstone has him listed as dead on the crash date. Could he have been one of the 2 people who survived the crash and then expired according to Jack's story? Perhaps. I think that Jin is probably alive on the island working for Ben....he probably traded his "seat" so Sun could get off the island. As for his "burial" site....plenty of people are not buried at the site of their tombstones. For example....almost all of the victims of 9/11. You just pop up a head stone in their memory. Voila.

As for when the flash forwards and flashbacks take place...they're all different times. This flahs forward with Sun and Hurley clearly takes place before Hurley get's locked up in an mental ward. He looks like he has his act together and hasn't started to go "nutty" yet. Kate's flashforward takes place (presumably) about a year and a half or two years after the crash.

Honestly what i loved about the episode wasnt about really what happened in the episode but how it will affect later episodes. First and foremost getting michael no matter how longwinded and stupid the reveal was had me very excited. He's an important character we havent seen for a season and a half who probably has some very interesting things to tell. Then while the whole flash forward/flash back could be seen as a manipulation, im sorry you cant be pissed about this one and not be pissed about teh finale of last year. both manipulated us by having a main character call out someone we presumed to be alive who was actually dead. what makes this one good is that now we can possibly never be sure whether its a flash forward or a flashback during each sequence in an episode. I dont know but for me it just means the normally very creative lost writers have even more ways to blow our minds.

Oh and any episode with jin as a main character is always gonna be a great episode. It's Jin! 'nuff said

The one thing I did find interesting was that Lawnmower Man seemed to walk away from the helicopter with a fresh paper bag with lima beans. Like he had been to the store. Then he was supposedly off running an errand later. Is there civilization within flying distance?

Personally I thought it was clear that Jin was still on the island and the grave was created after the fake plane crash (hence the date, and also why Suns details would be on there too, id indeed they were)

Sun was crying because she doesn't know if or when she will ever see him again. Shes just given birth as hasnt seen him for over 6 months, that's bound to be almost as upsetting as if he was actually dead!

Finally, hurleys "good" comment. As far as the real world are concerned they are the only 6 who survived. Therefore, if they all turn up getting upset about Jin etc. it's gonna look pretty dodgy!

Convinced this is true, but guess time will tell !!

Did anyone notice that when Hugo knocked on Sun's door to take her to the cemetary, that is when she put her wedding ring back on? And the way she casually got ready to go led me to believe that she was only going to the cemetary 'for show'. I think Jin is still on the island. Sun got off the island so that she and the baby would survive. Jin didn't get on the helicopter because there wasn't enough room for him. He's alive. I just know it! Neither baby Aaron of Ji Yeon can be an "O6" because they were not listed on the manifest. I think the whole "blood on the wall" scene was simply a scare tactic for Des and Sayid.

Just want to point out I totally called this last week. Jin is totally part of the cover story -- they have to say he survived and then died to explain how Sun could be pregnant with his baby.

(Remember, Jack said eight people survived the crash and two died later -- Jin is one of those two, I say Sawyer is the other).

I think Jin is alive and going to the marker -- probably something Sun's father insisted on -- is just part of the cover story. That is why Jack and Kate didn't come -- they know he isn't really dead. That, and only Hurley had the balls to get on a plane and fly to Korea!

I want to know how they explain to the rest of the world how Hurley didn't lose any weight ...

But I agree that the whole Sun crying out for Jin was an easy out for the writers .... but it means that Jin IS alive, just stuck on the island. I liked the twist of Jin going to the hospital for someone else.

I do need to rewatch the whole ep tho, because I had to tape last night (too broke for DVR) and my tape was all wonky and I missed a lot. I was ready to bawl when Jin and Sun were making up.

"... Lawnmower Man seemed to walk away from the helicopter with a fresh paper bag with lima beans. Like he had been to the store..."

Katie: that is an awesome catch! You just blew my mind!!!

Ok my main thoughts on this are that there perhaps were two crews leaving the island, the first six made it, the second six never showed. It would make sense for claire to give aaron to kate, if the second trip was unsteady, it would also make sense for Jin to force Sun to be on the first crew if it could only be assured that the first crew would make it. The real holes in that theory are why kate and hurley and jack? not vulnerable at all but perhaps they did something like pull straws for crews? Or that could be the 'gun' that Sayid drew on his friends that Ben talks about in Sayid's flashforward.

Or it could even be a time warp thing (which i have to say i would totally hate if it was)in which the people that returned to civilization are still waiting for the other losties, its months and years everywhere else but only moments or hours on island time? Again, too many holes in that too. I don't know, this may possibly have been the most stupid paragraph i have ever written.

I sent a question out but i know the whole laptop thing so thought i would ask it on here to see what other people think. What came first? The crash or the list? I know that ethan and goodwin were sent to compile lists when the plane crashed but i do not think that this was 'the list' which Ben seemingly had no control over. So that being said, what are the implications if the list came first? Desmond supposedly caused the crash, it just blows the whole 'coincidence, six degress of separation' (ie desmond and charlie, claire and jack, sawyer and locke) ideology out of the water so to speak. Or have i missed something somewhere and this was already addressed at some point?

We all knew that Michael was on the boat. The big deal about it is that Sayid pretended NOT to know him. Why would he do that? Michael killed two of the Losties to free Ben and then betrayed a few more to leave the island. Why cover for him?

Also, we learned Frank didn't open the door for them to escape two episodes ago so is it Michael? Again, why would he help them after he's betrayed them in the past. These are important questions and I think there was, as always, more to this episode that it seems at first.

Finally, I cried like a baby at the end. I don't know why, but I've never ever cried at a TV or movie like that. This is the best show ever.

I was just thinking that maybe Hurley said "good" when he asked if anyone else was coming was in reference to her or Jin's family--so they wouldn't have to put on a whole show about Jin being dead--just merely make it look like it from a distance.

Looks like I'm going to take a different road here (don't hate me, just think about it)... what if the scene with Jin in the hospital was a flash forward? Perhaps Jin made a deal with Ben, so that Sun would get off the island, and survive to have Ji. Perhaps Ben made him start a new life (new identity), and return to a job similar to when he worked for Sun's dad. He could have been sent on an errand with the panda to get on the good side of someone that Ben wanted to work with (or wanted dead).

Sadly, I agree with Daniel. I personally had it pegged from the first Jin off-island scene that this was in a different time than Sun's labor. You knew something had to be "wrong." And the Michael reveal was done in SUCH a disappointing way.

Oh well. Let's hope 4x08 is better than this so we have some juicy stuff to talk about until 4x09

good call Georgia, i totally forgot about that

the blood splatter may have been a scare tactic as someone said, but wasnt the reason for moving des & sayid in the first place because of that clanging that sounded like another prisoner? & daniel, i dont think they were trying to say that regina was illiterate for having the book upside down, i think she was just confused, the captain said people were coming down with "cabin fever"...sounds suspiciously similar to the way they used the term "side effects" for what desmond went through...i'm wondering though if they only had lima beans for dinner cuz regina was the cook & she killed herself. & autocratix, sayid didnt say that ben said he went to the boat...he said ben said he had a man on the boat. thanks whoever cleared up that scene with jin i was so confused about that.

AZ I was all set to poo-poo your theory, since he said he'd only been married for two months -- but I guess he could have remarried later ....

az: I thought that at first too, but that doesn't explain Jin working for Sun's father in the fb

Hi all. I'm new to this board, and don't think I'm as insightful as the rest of you, but here goes my little thought....

Is it possible that all of the people on the Island that Ben "gassed" a long time ago could have been used as the 320 passengers? Maybe there weren't nearly that many people, but it was the first thought that entered my mind. I'm sure I'm grasping...please don't think I'm an idiot :o)

One more thing:
Do you think that the 300+ bodies could have been the bodies from the purge? I don't know anything about the rate of decomposition, the effects of salt water, or how long the fake flight 815 had been in the water before it was found, but it is the only way that I can see Ben coming up with even close to that many bodies.

Janelle...."Jin is totally part of the cover story -- they have to say he survived and then died to explain how Sun could be pregnant with his baby."

I just don't see how this could be a logical possibility. So basically Jin is wounded from the crash, he turns to Sun and says "Let's go get it on one last time", they do their thing, she gets pregnant, and then Jin dies on the beach on the same day the crash occurs. Just doesn't make sense.

I'm so dissapointed in this episode! I was expecting so much more. I like the idea that Miachael doesn't necessarily have to be Bens man on the boat. I still think there is more going on with Sayid than we know yet. I'm standing by the idea that he is Bens man. I hope people aren't just left behind on the island without great explanations and closure. I'm expecting big things to happen in next weeks episode...they better! So do we think that Aaron or Jin is the 6th? I don't know who started the rule that the oceanic 6 has to be on the flight manifest. I think we are supposed to be counting Aaron.

Suz- " So basically Jin is wounded from the crash, he turns to Sun and says "Let's go get it on one last time", they do their thing, she gets pregnant, and then Jin dies on the beach on the same day the crash occurs."

OMG! I was lauguhing so hard when I read this... I completely agree.

Last weeks preview of last nights show said that the sixth of the Oceanic six would be revealed. This means that they had already revealed five of the Oceanic 6 prior to last nights show - which means Aaron is one of the Oceanic 6. You would not have to be on the manifest to be considered a survivor of the crash. If you are pregnant, survive a plane crash, have the baby, and are rescued, the baby WOULD be considered a survivor. Even a stow-a-way on the plane, who would not be on the manifest, would be considered a survivor! This being said, I knew when I saw Sun pregnant that it was a flashforward and she was the 6th. When they started the flashback with Jin, I knew it was a flashback because they had already told us that they had shown 5 of the oceanic 6, so he couldn't be included, and because he was so concerned with a panda bear while his wife was in critical labor.
Which brings another thought. When Sun first went into labor, she said something like, "something is wrong" when she called for help on the phone. Then at the hospital, the Dr. was so concerned, that they were going to do a C section. But, when Sun amazingly pushed the baby out with a few pushes after he first crowned (real labor is not like this) no one seemed concerned about the health of the baby. So why did they at first make it seem like this was a precarious delivery, and then when the baby arrives it was like, no big deal?
Micheal was no surprise. I will be good to find out what he and Walt have been up to though.
Who is doing the repeated banging on the freighter?
No big reveals, other than finding Sun is the 6th. I think Jin is on the island, because, as so many have already mentioned, his date of death is listed as the date of the plane crash. That makes sense as to why Sun was calling for him. If your husband is dead, you'd be less likely to do that. But knowing he is alive and can't be with you, it would then make sense to call for him and say you want him there.
I cried at the end, but it wasn't a great show, and I too don't like the obvious manipulative techniques with Jin and Sun flashes.

Just ran across an interesting theory from Doc Jenson:

"Despite my theories explaining Michael's return in yesterday's Doc Jensen column, I've become quite taken by the suggestion offered by several readers that actor Harold Perrineau isn't playing Michael but rather a grown-up version of Walt. I gotta tell you I really dig that idea."

http://www.ew.com/ew/article/0,,20184253_3,00.html

I realize there are problems with the theory - but only because Jin's tombstone has the crash date on it. But she didn't get pregnant until they were on the island for a month. For the timeline to work, she would have had to get preggers on the island. They could say Jin could have died later from a lot of things -- drowned in the ocean, eaten by a polar bear or dharma shark, falling off a cliff -- so I think he "survived." But i know, I know, the date on the tombstone screws with my theory. Sigh.

I thought the episode was good (solid). We all knew it was Michael on the boat - blah blah blah... Just because this is "Lost", it doesn't mean we have to be shocked or surprised every time! I really hope that Jin is not really dead. I cried like a baby when they dropped that bombshell.

The FF/FB was creative (and I fell for it), but the episode needed a full tank of premium unleaded to get it going. It was boring Daniel, no saving it.

Desmond didn't give me the "WTF" moment I wanted when he was told it was Widmore's freighter. That was a wasted moment.

Michael's reveal was anticlimactic. At best.

SIGH

For all those counting aaron as the 6th and disregarding the "you have to be on the manifest" rule. why isnt ji counted? shouldnt it be oceanic 7 once ji is born? I just think there is one more. and aaron and ji are just stowaways.

Does anyone know if the banging in the freighter was morse code? If so what did it say?

Y'all are so funny. Many of you are saying how disappointing it was that Michael was the man on the boat. That's all y'all talked about last week (aaaaall weeeeek loooooong, I might add)! Oh, well, it was still a good episode, not great, but good and I enjoyed it.

Did anyone catch the name of the book Regina was supposedly reading before Lawnmower Man pointed out it was turned upsidedown? Why would she has to wear chains to drown? If you want to drown bad enough you don't struggle (just like Charlie didn't).
I found it odd that the Doc's response to Sayid when he asked about turning the baot around and moving away, he said "what makes you think we're not moving?"
Michael's reveal sucked, but I am curious to find out what happened to Walt and the other children. Juliet getting bitch slapped was well deserved- who was she to judge Sun for the EXACT same thing she did with Goodwin (minus being preggers)?
I also found it interesting that Bernard shows up what seems out of nowhere to tag along with Jin to go fishing and talk about Karma....
Does Miles still have that grenade in his mouth? Something about Kate seems different, she's starting to "feel" like the new Rousseau, tracking people, info, maps, etc...

"...I think Jin is on the island, because, as so many have already mentioned, his date of death is listed as the date of the plane crash. That makes sense as to why Sun was calling for him. If your husband is dead, you'd be less likely to do that. But knowing he is alive and can't be with you, it would then make sense to call for him and say you want him there..."

They gave her drugs when she went in. Those things can mess you up... So even if he really really was dead with the drugs she could still get mixed up & call out for her husband.

This did bring something to mind that I wondered about last night though....
Remember when Sun was calling for Jin & Random Guy walked by the door, stopped & looked in...
Was this really some random guy or someone hoping to stumble upon the truth by catching a vunerable, drugged up lady in a slip up?
There was something about how he looked that made me suspect him. That & the writers rarely throw in a really random guy, focus on him for a quick moment & then move on like he was never there.
Of course it can be explained by Sun calling for Jin & mistakingly directing it at him & him being all "What? You talking to me?" But I feel it was more than that....

I totaly agree with you, the only thing that I somewhat enjoyed of this ep. is Sun Slapped Juliatte. Now if she would have PUNCHED her it would have been better. When this ep. ended I yelled at the TV, DAM!!! I was so annoyed with it. I would give this ep. a D-, the only other resone why I somewhat enjoyed it was, that Jin was so understanding and forgiving and know why it has who had Jin became in there home was the reason Sun went somewhere else to be loved by. NOW I am not saying what she did was right, it was totaly WRONG!! You are marred... you need to work on what is between your husband and yourself to fix it, and if not let and allow God to help ya..Sorry of point but its true. I loved how forgiving and loving he was. So this ep. D-

Lawnmower man was making stupid faces in the beginning that were really irritating. Like, half puppy dog eyes, half "I don't know what the hell is going on" eyes.

I think Jin's death is a cover up as well; even though they visit a gravestone, neither of them actually imply that hes died, all she says is that she misses him. That could mean he's still on the island or something as easily as it could mean he's dead.

I think Jin's death is a cover up as well; even though they visit a gravestone, neither of them actually imply that hes died, all she says is that she misses him. That could mean he's still on the island or something as easily as it could mean he's dead.

The gravestone could have been there before any of the survivors even made it back. The captain said that someone had staged an entire plane crash and sent all of the families through the grieving process, etc. There was a mention of that in Kate's episode too. Her mom said "when I thought you were dead everything changed." If Sun/Jin's families thought they were dead they could have had the gravestone erected. When Sun made it back alone (like the other 5 survivors) they couldn't explain that Jin was still on the island.
I think Jin is still alive and visiting his gravesite is Sun's way of "visiting" him - or she's being watched. I also noticed at the end when she's saying "i miss you so much", it seems like she is frustrated that she can't have him there with her since he's alive.

OK, so besides wondering if the banging was morse code, the other thing I was wondering was if anyone else got a creepy feeling about Sun's doctor not being there and some new doctor saying he couldn't make it. Made me wonder if there was anything up with that.
Thoughts??

I'll agree that Juliet spilling the beans was a really bitchy thing to do, but in her place, what else would you do? any other ideas on how to keep Sun on the beach? We know the women on this island die, Sun doesn't believe Juliet -- the only way she keeps Sun and Jin from going to Locke is to create this dissention.

Yes, I was still happy about the slap, but Juliet did what she had to do -- she has always done what she had to do.

by the way...where the heck are danielle & alex??? we havent seen what they've been up to since jack & locke split up. they're not with either side, so i wonder if danielle is preparing a defense plan for when the frieghter people show up. i mean i doubt she's in too big a hurry to get back to the real world...she's made a life for herself on the island and its been too long since she was in civilization. i bet she set up fox holes all over the island to keep mobil & hidden from the others. they'll have to get to that at some point so hopefully that'll mean a daniell flashback...now that could be veddy veddy interesting...

I'm new to this but I recommend everyone see the movie Millenium with Cheryl Ladd and Kris Kristofferson. I think this movie provides some insight of what might be going on. It won't give you many answers but it will shed some light! I promise you this movie will provide some perspective on LOST.

Isn't it funny how we all hate it when they give us little pieces of the puzzle. This show is great. You can't miss one episode because then you will be lost. There was an actual big puzzle piece revealed in this episode. Jin's date of death! The day of the plane crash. If you don't know why, I won't spoil it for you.

Michael's return was predictable. Imdb.com even gave him credits for a few episodes this season, before season 4 even aired. I thought this was funny!

Aaron is the key guys.

When Jin is talking to Sun towards the end, after forgiving her he said (paraphrased) "I will do whatever it takes to get you and the baby off the island."

This makes me think Jin did something to get her out, but that meant losing her. I am not certain Jin's flash was a back flash. It could be a flash forward. I think, like Sayid, he's working for Ben. He INSISTED on the Panda Bear. There's something there. And he used to be a killer for Sun's dad, so it's something he has experience with. Dunno... As a flashback, yeah, even if it tricked us, it did nothing else. And everything has a connection in this show. Tricking us to thinking it was a simple, innocent, back flash is totally purposeless.

This makes me think that he's alive and everyone else could still be on the island and there's some sort of cover up because of whatever it is about the island. Its electromagnetic field, how it cures people, etc.

Who the eff knows! But why would Bernard bring up that Rose has cancer and it's been "cured" while she was on the island? Why are we being reminded of the island's curing effects? That fishing trip I think was more about reminding us about the island's magic than of Bernard telling Jin about Karma.

None of this explain why Sun is bawling over a tombstone dating his death as the day of the crash. Unless they're going through the motions so if anyone's watching, they act like he did die then.

Questions is, why are they pretending everyone but 8 of them died? During Kate's trial episode they said 8 survived the crash, but only 6 survived the island. Why the cover-up?

Who did Hurley say "he wants us to go back" and so on the first episodes of the season?

Ben can't be considered an Oceanic survivor, so why and how is it he's alive? So far no one knows Ben is alive. This means many others could be too, but only a few are alive for the public eye.

And where the F did they find 324 dead bodies for the staged flight crash site? Oh, and did I hear right and did the captain at once say 324 bodies and then 325 bodies? Didn't DVR it so couldn't review it.

Jesus H. Christ why do I do this to myself?! This show has me so tense and anxious!!! LOVE IT!

And have we debated whether Aaron can be counted as an Oceanic 6 survivor? He wasn't on the manifest. ;-)

Discuss amongst yourselves now.

Hey Daniel...

This show was OK for me...I think I liked it better than you. I cried at the end. So Sad!!

I have a dumb question about LOST...If Hurley was in the nut house, how did he get to Japan to see Sun and the baby. Now I have a dumb question for you...If you were on flight 815 and crashed on that Island and you got off the Island, would you ever get on a plane again??? I'm just saying...

Anonymous, that is a good thought that jin and Sun's families put up the headstone when they thought they had died in the plane crash. Someone else said that it looked like their were 2 birthdates on the stone so that makes since that it would have been put up for both of them.

MONTENEGRO:

What do you mean about Jin's clue you won't spoil it for us?!?!?!

And I agree, I know something's up with little Aaron, so why do you think he's the key?!?!

Anon's comment, that tombstones were put up when they thought everyone had died, totally saves my "Jin as one of the extra two survivors" theory. Thanks!!

Nico -- presumably, Hurley didn't go into the nuthouse until later. Sun is only two months pregnant when they get off the island -- um, her due date would be ... July? Any calendars in the background on this ep?

Nicodemus, Hurley would have to gone to see Sun before he ended up in the nut house. That happens later. Or that's what we would assume.

This episode was ok....... not bad not great.

reason why is was not bad:
1. Juliette telling Jin about the affair...that was priceless

2. Suns acting.....she did an excellent job, i know lots of people cried.

Question: In the episode when Ben shows juliette her boyfirends body. She asks him why. He says "With everything I did to get you here and everything I did to keep you here......" I think this statement is VERY important. What would could Ben do to keep her there... I think he did something to the pregnant woman to cause them to die, so that he could keep julliette there, trying to find out what was wrong.

Lastly: to Little B: After I had all three of my kids, I was thinner than I was before I got pregnant. Breast feeding burns major calories. (The most I gained during pregancy was 22 lbs. so not a lot to loose. ( all three kids weighed over 8lbs). So it is possible to look like she did,

I liked this episode even though some things were telegraphed. I knew Jin was going to end up dead when he forgave Sun for her affair and acknowledged that he had been a very bad person and now he was new. This level of reconciliation with ones dark side is always followed by death on LOST and not too long in the future either. I will stick my neck out here and say that Jin dies next week. The Oceanic 6 are Jack, Kate, Aaron, Sayid, Hurley and now, Sun so I figured Jin never will make it off the island. No surprise on Michael being the guy on the boat. As for the comments by the author on Jack's comments about his father and Sun's yearnings for Jin, I think one of two things is going on. Either you go back home from the Island without reconciling your past and your life gets set back to where it was aka Christian Shepard is alive OR as you pass through the barrier, some are more susceptible to the past/current time issues that afflicted Desmond and Jack keeps going back and forth in his mind. Either way, I liked the show a lot.

Oh one more comment. I think Jin is alive. I do not think that was a flashback.

Just a few thoughts:

1) Jin was definitely in a flashback, set in 2000. The shopkeeper referenced it being the year of the Dragon, which was last in 2000.

2) I'll repeat it for those who missed it: Jin's headstone said he died on the day the plane went down. So, why claim that Jin is one of the 2 that initially survived? It would be more believable to say that Sun had gotten pregnant the morning of the crash in their comfy hotel rather than that they did it on the beach as Jin lay dying....

3) I think Jin is alive on the island (DUI not-withstanding). If he was killed helping Sun get off the island, I think they would have just said that 7 survived but 1 died just before rescue. I think they set the whole episode up to establish that Jin will do anything to get Sun and his baby off the island, including sacrificing himself.

My rating: C

the store clerk didnt say it was the year of the panda as someone on here claimed, he said it was the year of the dragon which would make it 2000 or 2012...it was definately a jin flashback.

The panda salesman said it was the year of the dragon, so it was the year 2000 - Jin was in a flash back - not a flash forward

So much for not being a flash back. Forgot dude said it was the year of the dragon.

Still think he's alive though.

This could be a stretch, but watching Jin's desperate plea for the panda after he had lost it reminded me of Desmond's scene with Penny in 1996. He couldn't explain why it was so important but it was. It could be as simple as Sun's father demanding a panda as a gift...but could it be a "constant" reference? He was smiling after delivering the panda just as Des smiled once he knew he had Penny's phone number. Again...could be way off!

darn karen, you beat me to it!! haha...

Karen, it comes down to due date. Unless the island time warp changes the laws of nature, they have to show that they were on the island for a month before she got pregnant. It makes sense that Sun's dad put up a marker when he thought they were dead, with the date of the crash on it. My tape was bad so I couldnt see clearly, but some people said there are definitely two people on the marker. Sun won' t change it since he's not dead.

I thought they killed Jin off because he got a DUI in Hawaii a couple of months back. Once the others on the show have done this... they get written off.

I'm a newbie to this site but I've been watching Lost since inception. I really wasn't feeling last night's episode. I found myself paying more attention to my solitaire game than to the TV. Hands down best scene was Sun slapping Juliet, I think she should have done it twice :) Did anyone notice how Juliet's face was all banged up throughout the first part of the show but right before the slap it appeared like she had on make-up...just an observation.

Daniel Kim got picked up for DWI in Hawaii so naturally his character Jin must die. It's regulations. (See Ana Lucia & Libby.)

i'm sure someone's already pointed this out, but 9/22/04 is the date that the plane crashed on the island, which is weird that it was put on Jin's grave.

has anyone read www.timelooptheory.com ? that would explain maybe his death on 9/22/04...not sure, but I think the date will be important to explaining how "time" affects the island and so forth.

this episode was good in my book...any ep. of lost is a good one. this was the first time we had a ff/fb in one ep. kinda cool, but it did mess w/ my head.
just a few thoughts:

i think their were several shady characters and moments in Sun's ff. even the doctor seemed "off"; notice how her regular doctor was at a conference. the timing of her delivery seemed off, too. she seemed surprised to be going into labor, could it have been orchestrated in some way? why was the doc pushing for a c-section (no pun intended), when she was about to crown? he gave her pain medication and then wanted her put under...i think he wanted her knocked out and then get his hands on the baby....hmmm.

michael on the boat...how could we be surprised when we all knew of his return? oh well. i'm glad he is back and we can get some answers to his story.
i too, wondered if the tapping on the pipes was morse code. could that be walt?
i think the crew members of the freighter are all suffering side effects and freakin out. regina, minkoski and the guy who went out on the little boat and ended up in the body bag, the cook, the blood spatter on the wall...it all adds up to weirdness on board. the other crew members seemed out of it, imo. the captain had too many answers, too easy. Desmond's reaction to learning daddy whidmore was the owner of the freighter was lacking. just a pained expression on his face. wtf?
lima beans...it seemed lawnmower man had his own stash of canned goods on the helicopter..i wonder what happened in the kitchen?

juliet is a filthy other and can't be trusted..she knows much more than we realize just now. she plays all the losties and they don't see it. sun, jack, jin..plays them all. i loved the SLAP, but wish it would have been a PUNCH. but, sun's preggers, so okay.

i think hurley said good when sun said no one else was coming, cuz he was sorry he went w/ locke..remember how he apologized to jack? maybe the other survivors aren't too happy w/ him for some reason? IDK..just a theory.

bottom line...i didn't hate this ep. we learned a lot, imo and got some new stuff to mull over. even a lame lost ep is better than most everything else on tv

Hi there Tamara!

Jin is on the island with whomever stayed behind. The six were allowed to leave with the pretense that they must keep the island a secret and never come back. Kate was made the hero of the 6 in hopes that this would save her from prosecution. I know some of you figured this out but some didn't. This is where I didn't want to ruin it for some.

Aaron was not suppose to leave his mother. The psychic was a self-admitted fraud (to Eko)but he was only a messenger. The "Others" are responsible for everyone getting on flight 815 just like they convinced Juliette to go to the island. The Others manipulated the psychic by using his daughter against him. This is why he sounded so anxious with Clara and why he was so persistent on his message to her. He was a fraud. He saw no images from the future. He was trying to protect his daughter (the girl who came back from the dead after drowning).

Tamara...Jin insisted on getting a Panda bear because he was presenting it to the Ambassador of China. Pandas are from China.

I'm not sure who mentioned this theory...about the grave stone possibly being erected right after the crash occured by the family (not Sun), but 1) Jin's family is dirt poor and possibly dead, I can't remember. So they didn't do it 2) Sun's father has the cash, but is not a big Jin fan and 3) Sun's birth date is on the stone as well...but there is no death date on there.

Sun put the head stone there to perpetuate a cover-up of some sort.

Just an FYI episode 9 airs on 4/24/08. So we only really have to go a month between pre strike and post strike. And from the spoilers I have read, post strike episodes should get a lot better then what we have had pre strike!!!!

This is for Tamara...good comments, I think I have answers. For Jin, it IS a flashback. I think I have mentioned that the O6 are Jack, Kate, Aaron, Sayid, Hurley and Sun. The other 2 of the 8 that survived the plane crash but not the Island are Jin and Claire. Why? Because you need Jin to impregnate Sun and you need Claire to have the baby I think. Notwithstanding that Kate was saying MY SON like Aaron was hers...maybe the drill will be that Claire is claimed to have died and Kate is claimed to be Aaron's true mother for a reason later to be divulged. Where did Ben find the 324 bodies? How about all the Dharma people he gassed..they were all over the compound. Don't you think that Widmore would be plenty PO'd to see the crash was covered up and it was done with his own people?

Here is something to ponder. Why won't Jack go see Kate when Aaron is there? We know Aaron is Claire's. We know Claire is Jack's half sister. We know Aaron is Jack's nephew. We know Jack loves Kate. Why would Jack not want to see Aaron? Is Aaron actually the spawn of Jack's father who may have molested his half sister? And does Claire not live because when she forgives Jack's father in some future episode she dies from the reconciliation and forgiveness? And is that why Jack can't bear to look at Aaron?

Now you can discuss. lol

melody, juliette looked like that cuz she got in a fight with charlotte in last weeks episode...they used makeup to make bruises & whatnot. whatever happened to the others being super crazy strong though?? juliette kick kates butt a couple of times, once while she had her hands full with a sandwich. maybe kates just a wuss (big surprise there) but i thought that juliette woulda put up a better fight against charlotte...

First of all, I'm really disappointed they killed off Jin. He and Sun had one of the more interesting/layered back-stories.

Secondly, I have a question: What was with that exchange between Sun and Hurley when they were discussing going to visit Jin's grave? Hurley asked if "anyone else" was coming and when Sun said "no," Hurley said "good." What does that mean?

Suze -- Jin fan or not, Sun's dad would have put up the marker. To put one up for both his daughter and his son-in-law would be -- what's the phrase? Saving face? Culturally, it would totally make sense that her dad would do that. And, he'd have the date of death removed if she showed up alive.

JMR - That's what I thought too! when they first showed the outline of Michael in the hallway, I thought it was Walt "grown up" based on the whole time issues in the story....

I love this blog!

I've mentioned this before.

324 bodies? how is this possible?

the movie Millenium with Cheryl Ladd and kris Kristofferson will answer this question. When you see this movie, you will see this movie helped inspire Lost as did other sci-fi resources.

Abrams and the writers of Lost are Sci fi buffs.

I don't think that people are off the island just under the radar... becasue why in heaven's name would Kate NOT be under the readar to avoid a trial and possibly jail or a death sentence. That would not make any sense. The 6 are the only Oceanic passengers off the island. Who knows about the other who were not on the flight.

Also, the tombstone only had Sun's birthdate on it and NOT date of her death, so it was probably not put up after the crash by their parents, otherwise it would have a date for her death as well.

Sidenote- what is up with all these people posting anonymously this week? Scared to put a name out there with your theories? rediculous.

Did anyone else notice Michael looking over the edge when the one girl jumped into the ocean? He was wearing a hoodie, we paused it and it was him. So it really wasn't as shocking when they showed him later.

Janelle...but there was no death date listed for Sun...so my point was that the marker wasn't placed there right after the crash, but rather after Sun came home...safe but without her husband.

You know rethinking about Jin and Sun perhap they are eachothers constant? Maybe this episode was foreshadowing the constant between the two?
Just a thought....

Does anyone remember in the first season the French woman Rousseau told Sayid that the people on her crew got sick and went nuts. That would explain what is happening to the crew on the Freighter.

Frankie, if that were true, why haven't the survivors & others gone crazy?

Barbara, I noticed the 1980 date as well, but I was so focused on that date that I didn't bother to look at the other date. Very interesting.

Oops! That was me who made the anonymous comment and I forgot to put my name on it :) Kinda funny!

Here is a screen shot of the tombstone.

http://lostpedia.com/wiki/Image:Jins_grave.jpg

I am SHOCKED that this episode was so ill-received! I LOVED it. My mouth must have stayed open for about 3 minutes when Juliet spilled the beans. And it was one of the first times that my boyfriend and I had a debate over what in the world happened at the end. I think it's incredulous that Jin would fake his death, he thinks it's incredulous to do a flashback AND a flashforward in one episode. I think we're both a little right, but I do believe that Jin's 'death' is all about the cover-up right there with Sayid assasinating people and Jack lying under oath. I LOVE LOST!

ALSO - Anyone think that the girl who 'killed' herself maybe didn't? I know that sounds a little nutty, but think of what was found underwater last season...little far-fetched, but what's the point of being a Lostie if you don't have an overactive imagination :-)

Danielle said 'It killed them all." So, did the rest of her people die when whatever their issues were got resolved, and she survived only because her baby was stolen, meaning she could never have resolution? now that she has Alex back, she could die soon.

Or, did her people go crazy from the same thing that is making the Freighter Tots crazy. Since they came from a boat (like desmond, the Black Rock people), does that have a different effect than falling out of the sky (Henry Gale, our Losties, Echo's brother's plane).

Ben got on and off the island by submarine -- does that mean you can go under the vortex/time displacment field? Did the chick who jumped figure out how to get off the boat in another way?

If you add the numbers up from the date from Jin's tombstone the number is 8....* supposed survivors, two died, 6 left....yadda yadda...

I'm thinking that the headstone wasn't erected by Jin's dad because it looked like there were two dates of birth, but only one date of death. Presumably, Sun was the other DOB on the tombstone. Her DOD would have had to have been erased when she came back from the island. Not saying that it couldn't have happened that way, but I think it's a cover up and Jin is still alive on the island.

opps, well if you minus 1 it's eight.....lol

To an extent, I enjoy every episode of Lost because I wait all week for it and even something is better than nothing :-) That said, I totally agree that last night's episode was THE LAMEST one, yet. As soon as the episode ended, I found myself looking forward to reading thelostdiary.com more than usual because (1) reading the blog post and everyone's comments/theories would add some substance to the episode, and (2) I was hoping folks would rant in their comments and we could all b*tch together :-) The thing that annoyed me most about the episode was using Jin's flashback during Sun's flashforward. I think Lost fans could've written a better script! Any chance this was written just before the strike? Maybe the writers weren't really trying...

I posted this earlier and I don't mean to be obnoxious by posting it again, but I'm really interested if anyone noticed the guy that stole Jin's cab and first Panda.

One thing that's very interesting to consider is the fact that the entire world, prior to the appearance of the Oceanic 6, has seen footage of an entire plane downed to the bottom of the ocean and assumed all passengers were dead. So, for there to suddenly be six survivors returning from this bottom-of-the-ocean, nobody-would-survive catastrophe, there's going to be a LOT of questioning, and there will have to be a damn good snow job involved. But from whom? And what can possibly be said to the world to explain how these six / eight would have survived being hurtled in an airplane to the bottom of the sea? I'm excited to find out where that story goes, and who is going to be the one to tell it! I also want to know who Oceanic may be in cahoots with and what they get out of all of this.

Jenn,
We watched that scene a couple of times (because I thought the guy who bumped into Jin was the guy who stole the cab. He was not). However, there was nothing about the guy who got in the cab to make you think "Oh he looks like ____!" Could have been some jerk just stealing a cab...but with Lost, you never know!

i just have to get something off of my chest before i read through the rest of the comments - i don't think this episode is as bad as everyone is saying. yeah, the reveals weren't mind blowing and we had kind of already anticipated michael was the man on the boat - but anticipating it and having it confirmed are very different. suspecting something as an audience member, then having someone on the show say it or confirm it makes it a good episode for me. they can't just skip over it, they have to fill in the gaps. and i think we are getting answers. i'm just way more impressed with this season than i was with season 3 (at least the first half).

Reasons not to hate his episode: it pulls at your heartstrings.
How can you not root for Sun and Yin - they're too cute. There's often so many juicy episodes that have you on the edge of your seat that the few that make you crack open the tissues are always worthwhile.

I just can't wrap my head around this whole 324 dead people found on the plane at the bottom of the ocean - however are they going to explain that one away. I'm committed to the end. LONG LIVE LOST...

Thanks Candace. I thought it looked like he had glasses on but I couldn't really tell for sure.

I liked the episode. It was on the bottom of the episodes this season, but I think it served it's purpose very well, it was a set piece. I see the writers playing a game of chess, slowly moving all the pieces in to place before their final gambit. Sure, the game gets a bit low at places, but it sets up some great moves later. When does Sun's flashforward take place with respect to the other flashforwards? What is her stance on returning to the island? What does that say about Jin's "death"? Is it before Hurley's breakdown? After? Kate can't, Sayid might not be welcome, but why wouldn't Jack come to see the baby? If Ben is off the island, who's in control of it? It's obvious Ben was wrong about Widmore, seeing as the island and it's healing properties haven't been exploited and are being covered up. What is Widmore's endgame? What is Ben's? How long has Micheal actually been gone from the island (losties think a month, but really?)? What is Ben holding over Micheal? Isn't it interesting that Sayid was the first to run into Micheal? They both end up working for Ben, what does that say? I think this season is setting up alot of new questions as we charge towards the end. That's just my opinion.

I didn't think last night's show was that bad. The ship is quite mysterious. The upside down book... the blood spatter on the wall... creepy stuff. It was also the first show that combined flash backs with flash forwards... am i right on this?

I came up with an idea during last night's show. I think we are being played. I think the "oceanic 6" are not the end of the story. We are going to see them getting back to the island. This episode seems to imply that Jin is still alive on the island and the lovers are now separated. She will be reunited with him one way or the other. Jack's and Hurley's comments in previous flash forwards seem to help my theory as well. Life isn't so good for them now, they seem to want back to the island. And the black guy (can't remember name now) that visited Hurley? There has GOT to be more to that.
Last season's finale really pissed me off because it seemed like such a series end reveal, but it was not! This is just a point in the final story.

- hastypete

I look forward to this forum almost as much as the show itself.
I think Jin dies as a side effect of leaving the island. The time differential probably causes his body to decompose during the rescue helicopter flight. Thats how they pass him off as dying on the 22nd. Maybe this happens to Claire as well. Thus fulfilling Desmond's premonition.
Watching your friends decompse in front of your eyes would be horrifing and would probably be one of the many issues the survivors would be dealing with.
Did anyone else notice that Michael looks like he's aged ten or more years?
I am so looking forward to the story of the freighter crew going mad. Like Kurt Russell-style in "The Thing." It will be awesome.

someone mentioned that jin had to survive to impregnate sun, but i don't think that's true. i'm pretty sure they'll say she was newly pregnant - like she didn't know until she was rescued or something. the date on his tombstone, as others have pointed out, is the date of the crash. i don't think that he would survive the crash, have sex with sun, then die. that's silly. he's either not dead and they are saying he died in the crash/right afterward, or he dies and they say he was one of the 8 who succumbed to his injuries.
also, give juliet a little credit. i can't stand the woman, but i realize what she was trying to accomplish by telling jin about sun's affair. she knew jin wouldn't go anywhere after that, and that sun would stay to try to fix things. was it brutal? yes. did it accomplish what it needed to? yes. sun has to stay on the beach so she can get to the boat or she will die. juliet chose between losing another patient and child or telling jin about the affair. she chose correctly.

hastypete- I hav ebeen saying that for weeks. The Oceanic 6 is not the end of the story AT ALL.

Maybe Walt is the 6th of Oceanic Six

I haven't read all the comments, but didn't anyone notice the HUGE cell phone Jin was using during the flashback? We picked up on that immediately!

I think Locke is in the coffin and he was close to no one..8 ppl made it out..including the 5 and the sixth still not known (I think it's Sawyer ) The two that died was claire and locke. What other main characters are left that they haven't covered?

I can't believe everyone disliked this episode, I thought it was really enjoyable. That being said, I dont get why everyone is cought up on who is in the grave.

First, I think Jin has to be dead because nobody would cry like that if they were just separated from someone maybe being able to see them in the future, those were tears of someone who knew their loved one was dead and gone.

Second, when people die at sea or in a plane crash or something where you can't recover the body, it is very common to still erect a tombstone as a place to go to remember the person. I highly doubt there is anyone in the grave, it is just a place for them both to be buried once Sun dies and a place that Sun and the baby can go visit to remember Jin. Not only is that not a stretch, its 100% plausible and normal.

I'm really sad Jin's going to die because him and Sun were two of my favorite characters. At least we know Hurley's safe!

oh yea I think Jin might die next week..although seems odd if they cover him on two consecutive episodes. I think Michael's character is next week...so anyone theory on who the character may be.

I think we are forgetting that the previews told us that we would find out the final members of the O6. We may not know for sure who it is, but it is someone who we KNOW made it off the island. I think it is Aaron (I know, I know... he wasn't on the manifest- the press does not care about those technicalities) although it could possibly be Michael.

Why is it such a surprise that Jin would understand the word Karma? He wouldn't need that in an English lesson. He's Japanese..Karma is a Buddhist concept.. Buddhist concepts are a part of Japanese culture. Being surprised he understands the word "karma" is like being surprised he understands the word "sushi".

Anon -- Jin and Sun are Korean, not japanese, but yet, Karma is probably familar to his culture

Jin is Korean not Japanese.

The book thing bothers me because it was so random, and we all know nothing in Lost is random. What's the point of reading a book upside down? Even if she can't read, she'd would at least be able to tell what the letters look like to know it was upside down.

I posted this earlier to no responses or reactions...

"For all those counting aaron as the 6th and disregarding the "you have to be on the manifest" rule. why isnt ji counted? shouldnt it be oceanic 7 once ji is born? I just think there is one more. and aaron and ji are just stowaways."

my question is if the last two were going to revealed last night...why cant it be sun and Ji? If you are assuming that she got pregnant prior to the plane crash then why isnt Ji considered a survivor too?

Ji and aaron are obviously not being considered part of the O6 (or it would be O7) and there is still one lostie to be revealed.

Sun was pregnant when they were rescued, so technically there were 6... Jack, Kate, Aaron, Hurley, Sayid and Pregnant Sun. Fetuses are genereally not counted when the media are coming up with catchy nick names.

They've been on the island for 90- somethin days right now. Why did Jin have to question who the father was..when Sun say she was two months preggers?

The 6

Jack
Kate
Hurley
Sayid
Son
Michael ????

I think Jin's back on the island...either that or Sun's father killed him for not delivering the watch. Either way this episode had me a little choked, not as much as the Penny And Desmond love fest, but chocked none the less.
Still bothering me as to whether Ben ever told Locke what the black smoke is.
I think many will agree that we need an all John Locke episode soon. Either that, or we can ge another random Jack flashback with his Party of Five hair...Priceless.

Thought episode was decent. But, geesh, it seems like we get another round of commercials every 4 minutes.

its not a fetus anymore...it should then be changed to oceanic 7

I think everyone needs to go to "youtube" and look at the Orchid Station video. This is an EXTREMELY EASY way to see how Ben could have came up with 300+ bodies. It's just like the rabbits from the video.

I've read half of the posts and just have to make a quick comment- I think Jim is alive on the island (even though they go to a grave to talk to him) and that is why Sun is crying out for him during the painful, scariness of childbirth. She is a bit disoriented and is yelling for him because she knows he is alive but he just can't get to her. Just my thought.

1. It would be possible for Sun to say she was (unknowingly) pregnant prior to the plane crash--due dates are really only estmates, even with ultrasounds. And the further along in a pregnancy, the less accurate "dating" a pregnancy becomes. I agree with the other posters who think they're saying that Jin had sex with Sun while essentially dying is really far-fetched. It would be more plausible to say it happened in the days leading up to the crash.

2. I don't think it would matter if Aaron were on the manifest or not to be a part of the "Oceanic 6". "Oceanic 6" wouldn't be a name from the airline, but one from the media to identify the survivors as a group. Are they supposed to ignore Aaron? (Here comes the Oceanic 6--and the baby!) However, Sun's baby would not be counted as she (Ji Yeon) was not born yet.

3. Juliet did not tell Jin about Sun's affair to be mean, or bitchy or spiteful. I believe she DOES want Sun to live, and so she wanted her with the group that's at least TRYING to get off the island. I bet all you Juliet-haters would have been just as mad at her if she had let Sun go.

I don't think they would change something so well known as "The Oceanic 6" just because she had a baby months later. I'm sorry, but that just doesn't make any sense. The headlines might read, "One of the Oceanic Six Gives Birth." Think about it, it just doesn't make sense to change it now.

CAN I GET 324 DEAD BODIES TO GO?
YES SIR, WOULD YOU LIKE FLIES WITH THAT?

I posted this earlier but didnt see it so here it is again. We know that by the end of this season we will know who got off the island, what they had to sacrifice, and how they got off. So you are right Cam and pete, we have another 3 seasons to look forward to with the O6 trying to get back to the island since thier lives are not better by getting back to the real world. I hate to say it, but they pretty much wrapped up any questions or loose ends with Sun and Jin, so I dont think we'll be seeing much more of either of them.

i didn't get through all of the posts - but i think that jin is alive - whether he's on the island or not, i don't know. but he doesn't like the person who he used to be, and i'm sure that neither sun nor jin wants him to go back to working for her father. so i think that he is faked his death but is still with sun and the baby.

Could it be possible the dead bodies procured for the staged plane crash site are skeletons from the ship of the Black Rock? Was it ever mentioned if any were found?

I haven't seen this mentioned, and I could be completely making this up, but I thought at one point when talking about the pregnant women dying on the island, Juliette said "I think it happens at conception." She said they all die in the 2nd trimester, but that their fate is more or less sealed at conception. If that's true, than Sun got pregnant off the island, and Juliette is a liar. The question is, why would she lie about this?

hey tim, march 14th 10:50 am - have you birthed a child and not have her father there with you? have you tried caring for an infant alone? what if she has postpartum? i cried like that and my husband was right there with me!!!

thought it was an ok ep. i agree dont like the flashforward/flashbacks together & then fooling us.....would like to know where did the helicopter go??

it doesnt make any sense to me how the 324 bodies found in the fake crash could come from the purge or from the black rock....when they showed the underwater camera of the bodies in the wreakage (yeah like that would ever happen in real life) the bodies still had skin & stuff, they werent skeletons like the bodies in the pit.

1. Why are people asking about Hurley & the suit? We didn't see him on A PLANE wearing a suit. What makes you think he didn't fly there, get a HOTEL ROOM & change into the suit to go see Sun?

2. Jin's was a flashBACK. Did you not see the phone he dropped? You can't find phones that big anywhere anymore.

I am pretty much with you. After putting together my thoughts after, the only high point was Juilet screaming out the affair point.

The Oceanic Six, Jin flashback, Michael, and the Captain explaining pretty much all 4 seasons, and Pennys dads boat, were so not suspensefull! Everyone just sat there so mild and uneventful like it was not big news!

The reason Jin insisted the stuffed animal be a panda was because the baby it was going to was the grandson of the Ambassador from China.

I don't think Michael is Ben's man on the boat, I think they just want all of us to think that, there has to be another twist somewhere, at least I hope. I have to admit, the end made me shed a tear or two, but other than that this one was kinda boring. One more thing, so Ben is the one that put all the fake dead bodies in the fake plane discovery??? is that what the Captain was saying, I don't understand??????

A few tidbits I thought were interesting:

The captain of the freighter Kahana (Lostpedia has some interesting info on this word) is like all the others in what he doesn't say. He doesn't say that Ben staged the crash recovery, although we infer that since the name of the ship that did the crash recovery was the "Christian I" whom I assume is named for Jack's dad.

What the captian does say is that it would take tremendous resources to pull something like that off, and that's why they're looking for Ben.

What doesn't make sense at first is why would Widmore care? What stake does he have in the passengers of 815? Additionally, the Captain seems to know exactly who they are, calling them by first and last name. Did we see them give that information, or does he know it some other way? (If it's the latter, that might also be a clue, since Des wasn't on the manifest.)

The second thing that struck me is the question of what Ben said in the preview for next week. Did he say "what a man would do for his son," or did he say "what a father would do for his child?" If it's the latter, then I need to start thinking about all the parent/child relationships that we know of, or can infer.

Is it possible that Widmore has a child on 815? Or that he is going to the lengths he is for the sake of Penny? Or more likely that he is interested in Ben for the sake of the power he has? I think it's more likely that he power grubbing, but they're being really ambiguous about the relative good and evil of the two sides.

Last, I was totally moved by Jin when he came in with dinner and explained why everything was okay. Totally a Penny/Des moment. I think it could go either way with Jin being dead or not, the scene at the cemetary was genuinely sad, but it could be that Sun missed him while knowing he's off working for Ben. But then they wouldn't need to go to the cemetary, unless it was the anniversary of his death and they needed to make a show of it.

Okay, really last, I think Hurley saying "Good" when no one else was coming might indicate that the Oceanic 6 either didn't get rescued together, or got rescued together under duress. We know that Hurley was with Locke, and Jack's visit with him wasn't really on good terms, so he maybe was saying good, like he and Sun were friends, but somehow he wasn't friends with Jack, Kate, and Sayid.

I forgot to add, Sun should have PUNCHED Juliette out!!!!!!!!!!!!! That would have been good. Everyone else is always getting knocked out why not Juliette for a change and by Sun, what could be better than that?

Why even cast the fantastic Zoe Bell for a freaking forty second role? Her only stunt was jumping off the boat. I'll bet the people of New Zealand are mad as hell.

I really believe that Claire and Jin will end up dying. I don't see how the survivors would make up a story saying that those two are dead, without it being true. Sun would be holding on to hope that someday she could be with him again. And wouldn't they want to hold out hope that Claire could somehow be reunited with her son?

Like many other fans of Tarantino's "Death Proof", I, too, was bummed that Regina (Zoë Bell) committed suicide. She coulda done some serious ass-kicking in future episodes.

I'm sure Zoë Bell wasn't an inexpensive actress. There's got to be more to her role.

What if Michael isn't really Michael?

Zoe Bell will most likely be back next week in the Michael-centric episode as they show how he ended up on the freighter... don't worry.

...the kids are napping...I can goof off for another few minutes...he he he

Spoolie....Fisher Stevens is a well known actor too who was probably quite expensive. I have two theories about he and Zoe Bell. 1) either they're both BIG fans of Lost, and just wanted to be a part of the show in some way or 2) we'll be seeing them both a lot more in some flash backs.

Jin's tombstone read 9/22/2004. We know that is around Christmas time because of the calendar during "the Constant". Jin isn't dead, he's been left on the Island for some reason. That's why Sun says she missed him so much. They should have given us more last night. It was a slow episode.

http://lost.cubit.net/archives/2008/03/4x07-jins-tombstone.php

Spoolie - I hope you're right...I mean, Libby's back next week (according to the ABC press release), so you never know!

tara - yes, their fate is sealed at conception if they stay on the island. that's why juliet insists that sun get off the island soon. her second trimester will start when she's three months. so she's not lying.
and sun being so upset during her labor and at the grave site doesn't mean that jin is really dead. death is not the only reason that she would be upset. if i was pregnant and just had a baby and my husband was stuck on an island and i could never see him, i would be in pieces, just like her.

I just want to complain that my local ABC station is pre-empting Lost to play the SEC basketball thingy. So, it doesn't come on until 1 AM here. Bastards! My mom, actually said the F word when she found out. (The worst word she has ever said was "darn"!!)

Does anyone else believe Michael is the saboteur on the freighter?

oh, and i totally thought it was shady how sun's doctor was at a conference. i just kept thinking, oh my god - that doctor is dharma (or an other) and he's trying to take her baby!

Jennifer: "I totaly agree with you, the only thing that I somewhat enjoyed of this ep. is Sun Slapped Juliatte. Now if she would have PUNCHED her it would have been better. When this ep. ended I yelled at the TV, DAM!!! I was so annoyed with it. I would give this ep. a D-, the only other resone why I somewhat enjoyed it was, that Jin was so understanding and forgiving and know why it has who had Jin became in there home was the reason Sun went somewhere else to be loved by. NOW I am not saying what she did was right, it was totaly WRONG!! You are marred... you need to work on what is between your husband and yourself to fix it, and if not let and allow God to help ya..Sorry of point but its true. I loved how forgiving and loving he was. So this ep. D-"

What in the hell are you trying to say? Take the marbles out of your mouth and speak clearly

t - they would make up a story about them dying for the same reason they would make up a story about the other 40-ish survivors dying: they have to. i don't think they have a choice in the matter, so no, even if jin was alive, sun wouldn't have any hope of seeing him again. the people left on the island are stuck on the island, and the ones off the island are sworn to secrecy and can't find the island again (refer to jack in last season's finale).

two more comments before my little ones wake up an I have to sign off for the night...

I'm watching the end of last night's episode. Sun is in labor and the doctor says he needs to do a C-section because "the medication makes natural child birth difficult". What kind of meds would this be? Typical pain meds that are administered during child birth don't make vaginal birth a problem. I wonder if they're on some kind of medical protocal due to their Oceanic-6-ness. ?????? Maybe the 6 come back with some kind of illness???

Also...just a personal thing...the infant in the birthing scene is covered in weird slimey glumpy jelly stuff. What kind of parent would allow their child -- a newborn in particualr -- to be covered in goop from head to toe so they could be on a TV show??? Just wondering. Hollywood is messed up.

I was not happy at all, with them tricking us to believe jin was alive. The only thing I wanted to see in that episode, was Jin get to the hospital and see that baby. I found it sad and unneccessary to do this. I was not suprised at all by Michael on the boat. I am however wondering why the woman on the boat, was banging the chain before she jumped and what that means. Juliette is gettin old and I am annoyed every time I hear her speak...

I liked this episode. I think Jin is alive & on the island. Angelo, I too am getting impatient for a Locke episode. As far as Jack is concerned, the only thing better than his flashback "Party of Five" hair is his awesome flash forward Burt's Bees beard.

I am glad I wasn't the only one bawling my eyes out last night...I wished this blog was real-time!

Just because Michael is ON the boat doesn't mean he's Ben's guy on the boat. I agree that he may not be the one.

Also did any one catch that the dr said "the medication you are taking makes a natural birth impossible" during her labor? What medication? What happened to the baby? Why did she say "Something's wrong" instead of "i am in labor"?? Something is up with that. I know its meaningful but I don't know why....

to: CHRIS March 14, 2008 11:04 AM What do you get from the Orchid Video that relates to the bodies?

I hope Jin stays alive. I'm just having a hard time believing they would make that kind of deal with Ben. They don't really trust him, nor do they know much about him and his background. I guess, if I were Sun I would hold on to any bit of hope that Jin could be rescued someday. She'd have to be really convinced that it's in her and the baby's best interest to publicly say he's dead.

Oh about Jin - i think he's dead. i think he gives his life to save her. If he and claire die that explains the 8 vs 6 thing.

So did Michael and Walt intercept the freighter or did they make it back to the mainland and find a way to get work on that boat? (if Walt is even on it, that is)

no way could michael and walt have made it - otherwise everyone would know there are survivors of 815 - wouldn't they???

Wait... how can they claim that Jin died on September 22, 2004 and yet Sun is pregnant with his child that was conceived on the island?!?!??

I don't think the O6 really have a choice if they want to say people are alive or not-I think something happens and a deal is made and they cannot stray for the story established, OR ELSE. I am not quite sure who is in control of them, most likely Ben since we see that Sayid is working for him.

As for Michael, I think that he makes it somewhere with the boat and he finds his way back to the island on the freighter. On the previews for next week, doesn't he say something like, "I though this was a rescue mission" Did anyone else catch that?

Maybe the only way Ben will let them off the island is if they tell the story he wants. Maybe if they are a pair- Jin and Sun, Claire and Aaron, then only one of the pair is allowed to leave and the other has to stay for some reason until Sayid kills all the people Ben tells him to....Just a thought.

stacy- maybe Ben told him not to tell anyone that he was on 815, and that is why he is going by the name Kevin Johnson.

I'm not with you at all Daniel. First of all, had an episode with this magnitude been shown in either season 2 or season 3, we would all be flipping out. I think that season 4 has just been exceptional.

We all knew it was Michael...I agree that wasn't much of a surprise.

JIN- I cried. If you didn't feel sad, then I don't know why you watch this show. The whole point of trying to deceive the audience is so that we would have no idea, although my bf caught onto what was going on well before I did, so for some people it wasn't all that deceiving. However, I think they wanted the audience to not have any idea what was going on so that when you finally do realize that Jin doesn't make it, it really truly comes as a huge shock. I personally predicted Jin to be immortal in that they would never kill him off, but once again Lost defies what I want and does the unthinkable. I don't believe that he is still alive after all, I think people that just can't accept he does die will think that. He's dead, it's sad, and I loved this episode because it truly had me so upset by the end...but not in an I hate this episode kind of way.

As for Juliet, she's a bitch, true, but by revealing the affair she probably ultimately saved Sun's life. I think she knows what she's doing.

i am so disappointed. in so many ways. this season has really let me down. sure, there have been some good reveals, SOME good episodes, and i rather enjoy the flashforwards...BUT the whole reason they made us WAIT 9 months for the new season was so they could give us 16 amazing episodes, right? well where the hell are they, cuz i've only counted THREE! i hate to be negative, but i expect more of this show. i especially expect more if they're going to wait this long to air the season!

now on to last night's episode:
i will acknowledge that they totally surprised us with the flashback/flashforward combo, but i'm so sad that Jin doesn't make it. i don't see what the point was to kill him off. he is one of the best, nicest, wonderful human beings on that show, so i'm bummed he got killed off. that character overcame a lot and transformed into this great guy, amazing husband, faithful friend, loyal LOSTie, and courageous fighter/survivor. so why kill him off?! he didn't deserve to go. i was heartbroken watching that last night. so sad! :(

if Aaron counts as one of the Oceanic 6, then Sawyer doesn't make it either. i can't bear the thought! Save Sawyer!!

furthermore, i say it every week and i'll say it again: IF DESMOND AND PENNY DON'T END UP TOGETHER, I WILL STOP WATCHING! THEY ARE THE ONLY LOVE STORY WITH A CHANCE!! I really thought Sun and Jin would have a happy ending, and that's another love story ending miserably. Desmond and Penny are our only chance! If they kill off Sawyer and/or don't have Penny & Desmond end up together, i will officially stop watching LOST. ok, as soon as i typed that it was a lie. but i WILL officially dislike the show. get it together LOST! you best be stepping it up!!

Asian babies ARE the cutest!! :):)

I love reading this site!
In talking about the Oceanic 6: My thought is that we now know the Oceanic 6 – and Aaron is one of them. My main reason is that previews for last night’s episode state that we’d find out the final member of the Oceanic Six, not “members” plural.
So this means that Claire somehow does not get off the island – she could very well be one of Jack’s “eight” that survived initially. The story would be that Claire survived the crash initially and perhaps died in childbirth. Kate took care of the baby from day one and therefore was the obvious choice to raise the child when they left the island.
I also agree with previous posters on Jin’s death – the story the Oceanic 6 is floating is that he died in the plane crash or the day of – there’s no other reason for the date of the crash to be his date of death. You can definitely fake a pregnancy by a couple of weeks, and that could very well be what Sun had to do. I don’t know why Sun and Hurley would visit a grave site that did not have the body of her husband. There would be no reason, because they would know the truth. I think the body is there, and that Jin is dead. I think it’s possible that the story the “Oceanic 6” is telling about Jin is that he survived initially, but perhaps died that night. That would allow for the body to be there with the other “survivors” and would allow for the body to be flown back home with Sun. I believe that Jin is dead – he did not stay on the island, because Sun would never go to visit and introduce her child with all that emotion to an empty grave. If he was still on the island, she wouldn't need to go to a grave to do that.
So the Oceanic 6, IMHO: Jack, Sayid, Kate, Aaron, Hurley and Sun.
And the “two” who didn’t make it after the crash, according to Jack: Claire and Jin
So the question is, why are the Oceanic 6 agreeing to go along with this story? Is it to protect the others who remain on the island? Was that their only guarantee of getting off the island?

To stacy | March 14, 2008 12:36 PM - If you watch the video the rabbit just "magically" falls from the ceiling and it has the number "15" on it just like the other one, kind of like a clone or along those lines, and that makes me think that the orchid station has some sort of cloning abilities...and that could explaine the fake bodies on the plane!

This was a frustrating episode to see the least. I agree that the Michael reveal was less than a surprise. Too many people saw that one coming.
And episode about Jin and Sun should merit a B to start with; unfortunately, I agree with Daniel that the heavy-handedness of the flashforward lessened it for me, but not to a D.
I have this suspicion that after Jack's story of the 8 survivors with only 6 making it off the island is a coverup to a battle that will be coming soon. And so that Jack, Kate, Hurley and the rest of the 6 are not brought up on Murder charges, they came up with the story. Jin was killed on the island as the others are being rescued because Locke tries to stop them in a violent manner. Jin has said that he would do ANYTHING to protect the baby. So we have Jin's body interred because he tried to save Sun and to fit their story, he died shortly after the crash.
Don't know if this is something that other's have already come up with as I had the thought as soon as I finished Daniel's entry and had to get it out.

Thanks Buttercup...I was going crazy trying to figure out what Sayid said.

Doesnt' Goodwin tell Juliet that he works at the power station? He never mentions gas, poison or chemicals. Even though she says, "I know a chemical burn when I see one." I don't think she knew that the Tempest was a chemical factory.

I love this blog!

A "fun" fact about Lima Beans:

Lima beans contain cyanide compounds, which is why many countries, including the U.S., restrict commercially grown varieties to those with very low cyanogen levels. The lima beans grown in Java and Burma have 20 to 30 times the concentration allowed in most Western countries. They must be cooked thoroughly to allow the hydrogen cyanide gas produced to be driven off.

I wonder what happens if you eat cans of uncooked Lima beans?

My personal thought is that whatever was going on on that island when the 6 left was so terrible, that Claire gladly gave her baby up to Kate so he would survive....and Jin gladly stayed behind to make sure Sun and their baby are ok. I think Claire and Jin are both alive on the island. But - that they were willing to stay there to assure the safety of their loved ones.

As far as WHAT was going on. We dont know. And no matter how many guesses we make, we still wont know. Not until 2010 when It is over will all our answers be given. Until then, we just gotta enjoy watching! While making our predictions along the way....

I think it is safe (and rather obvious) to assume that when Michael left the island he went directly to the freighter and probably has been there ever since. If you recall at the end of season 2, they give him specific instructions to stay on a very specific heading on the boat and to not stray in any way. That heading undoubtedly landed him at the freighter.

I don't think that Jack really wants to get back to the island because he thinks life is better there. I think he is feeling guilty or feels he needs to help whoever was left there. I think that there is still a major battle that is going to happen and that a lot of people are going to die. I really think that Jin will die during this battle. It makes his sacrifice for Sun and the baby more dramatic. Jack, is going to want to go back to the island and save whoever is left there. It's his thing!!

I think it seems plausible that Michael is the man in the casket, but after watching that episode again, the funeral director asks Jack if he is family or friend....if Michael is in the casket, would Jack be asked if he were family? It could be just to throw us off I guess...or family by marriage??

First Heath Ledger, now Jin?!!?!!

What's going ON?!

I really didn't like this episode - I thought that Sun let Juliet off way to easy for outing her. It was the best scene of the whole show but she should have gotten more than just a single slap. Juliet is evil like Ben. She HAS to have something up her sleeve.

At any rate - being one of those who felt like Miles was Ben's guy on the boat - I was very dissapointed to see Michael be the guy. It's way too easy. I think that he IS the man on the boat, but wouldn't it be wonderful if next week someone else was revealed to be the true "man on the boat"! As for the theories of Michael/Kevin being Walt only all grown up is a HUGE stretch. He just looks to old for that to be possible.

I don't know about the whole Jin death thing. Who knows with Lost. I don't think it ever really came out of anyone's mouth "Jin is dead" so maybe we are all just reading too much into this part.

Daniel - thanks for being critical - I know some people don't like it but isn't that what you're here for? To critique the show??? Love this site! I TOO miss Sawyer.

BTW - where are Larry and HH and LIT?? Have you all gone to another forum?

First Heath Ledger, now Jin?!!?!!

What's going ON?!

Posted by: :( | March 14, 2008 01:12 PM

Ummm... Heath Ledger was a real person who really died. I find this offensive.

HH and Larry have posted today... LIT proclaimed she was leaving last week. I personally think she is here somewhere.

BTW- is anyone else looking forward to Sayid opening a can of whoop ass on Michael??? That little preview for next week was truly my favorite moment of last nights episode:)

At least that is what I think I saw....maybe it was just wishfull thinking.

I originally thought Michael in the casket, but realized it's because Jack went to the funeral in a black neighborhood.

Since then I've assumed it's Ben. Not family or friend, and if you've seen the Missing Pieces snippets on ABC.com, recall what was said over the chess game...

Sorry, but I have never been that interested in Sun and Jin. Minor characters in my opinion. So I kinda felt like they wasted a lot of this episode. I am glad to know the baby was born OK, otherwise, ho-hum
Michael was not a surprise at all. Yea, I agree, grade:D
ALSO, Sun slapped Juliet, but then five minutes later, she's sitting on the beach with her being best friends. Juliet was pure evil telling Jin about Sun's affair. Sun should have kicked her a*s, or at least not talked to her for a long time! And why aren't Sayid and Des saying, "will you take us home?? will you take us home???"
lame episode.

LostJunkie | March 14, 2008 01:26 PM - What was said over the chess game? I haven't seen missing pieces, i cant get them at work...

i don't believe the captain when he alludes to Ben masterminding the fake Oceanic crash site - doesn't make sense! Listen:

When they played the crash site on the television and displayed the 1800 number, Lawnmower Man called in right away and debunked that story to whomever was on the other line! So. If it was Ben's people on the line, why is he working for Whidmore (unless HE'S the man on the boat - very unlikely). It's gotta be Whidmore's people on the line who hire the pilot to keep him quiet. Whidmore has the resources to do this. Does that make sense?

Also, Whidmore has tonnes of cash. Why would he want to turn the Island into a cash cow? He's already got money. Gotta be something else. I mean, he's been looking for this Island for YEARS - as seen in Desmond's time-tripping. Maybe he's sick and wants to be cured?

Maybe he's afraid of death? Christian is dead / not-dead and seems to be in on this too.

I think the reason Sayid ends up working for Ben is along the same reasons Micheal is working for Ben. Nice they get to meet. Hopefully that'll be clear.

Some crazyass decisions have to be made by the O6. I think these decisions guilt-trip Jack (making him leery of seeing Aaron), making Hurley pissed off at everybody else. Making Sayid work for Ben. Making Kate into a fake mom... Probably it's a blackmail. Keep quiet and your friends live, kinda thing.

amanda - I think LIT is posting anonymously. Stupid a$$hole flamers like Coolio are making things mean on this board. I think I saw a post by hh...

i still think Micheal is in the coffin. He probably does something that pisses off the O6 so they don't want to come to his funeral.

Suze - i'm pretty sure that little baby was covered in jam. Looked like raspberry. mmmm :)

oh, and I think in the future, they are all a little afraid of Aaron for some reason. Jack made that weird face when Kate said come over and visit me and the baby, and Hurley said "Good" when he found out nobody else was coming to Sun's house.
Walt's step dad was afraid of Walt.
Do they have magic powers or something??

Oh no TeresaLynn, I am very much looking forward to Sayid putting the smack dab on Michael.

Lost junkie - if it were Ben in the casket, I think Kate and Jack would seem more relieved. And you'd think that Whitmore and friends would want to make sure that Ben was in that casket.
I'm guessing it could be Michael under his alias name.

Hey Everybody....Walt is Bens' "man" on the boat. Michael has sold his soul to the Devil. Ben works for God. Widmore's people are EVIL. Stick with Ben all the way.

just a thought - if jin does indeed die and the body is actually buried in that cemetary, but the marker says september 22, 2004, how would they account for the lack of decomposition? it's not like he would be embalmed and in a casket on the island. and even if they get rescued in the next few weeks, according to their story, he would have been dead at least 100 days. the sand wouldn't have preserved him, and so they couldn't say he died that far back and have his body still in tact. the grave stone is a marker, nothing else. he is either alive on the island, or he dies there trying to make sure sun is rescued.

Ok.....have to admit that I have not finished reading all the posts so I may be repeating people here but: First, I have managed to remain spoiler free this season for the most part so the whole flashback/forward thing in the same show was kind of cool to me. Second, the Michael thing did not surprise me....saw that one coming a long way back. Third, is it just me or was the captain of the boat kinda hot? May have to go back and take a second look. Anyway....my favorite part of the flash forwards is trying to figure in out what order they are happening. Did Hurley go visit Sun before or after he freaked out and ended up in the mental institution again? And was this flash forward before or after Kate's trial? We know Hurley was in the nuthouse before Jack's flashforward from last season but we don't know the order of the rest of this stuff. As usual, it leaves me confused....which is the best part of the show for me......I don't look for all the answers because, when we have them, the show will be over....it's the journey from the beginning to the end that's the fun part.

i agree, hh, Jin is alive and trapped on the Island. Hurley and Sun are keeping up the pretenses.

If the O6 had to leave their friends behind forEVER, it'd be like they're dead. Especially since the exact location of the Island is unknown.

I'd love to get a recording of the banging in the ship. I'm convinced it was Morse code and Sayid knew what it was saying. Anyone?

T - actually, i think if it was ben in the casket, jack would have been more upset, because without ben, he knows he probably has no way of finding the island again.

flashforward order:
1- Sun has the baby and Hurley visits her
2- Hurley is in the institution
3- Kate's trial
4- Jack freaks out

I have absolutely no idea when Sayid's comes into play. There is nothing really to compare it to in the time line. His is the only one that does not involve any of the other 6.

I also think Hurley and Kate's are interchangeable or happening around the same time.

Oh, and I am in agree completely with all the ladies... I am having MAJOR Sawyer withdrawals. But, having a new hunk to look at is ok, that Captain. Yummy!

By the way. When Miles drives up to the ladies house in Inglewood, CA he is listening to the radio. They are talking about the plane being found and they say something along the lines of " with a salvage mission unlikely authority figures are confirming all 324 passengers dead". I don't think that Whidmore had to come up with 324 bodies, just a few bodies and some luggage etc... to make it look like the whole plane when down. The whole plane goes down, then no survivors.

And I do think Whidmore was behind the fake crash site.

Carriem, I like your theory on the pilot being hired by Whidmore through that phone call. Makes sense to me.

i'm with mo that dui curse is lethal

so it seems as though ben is trying to destroy the freighter people, and they're trying to destroy ben. and both are using the survivors as pawns.

a theory - ben is getting michael to make all the shipmakes cuckoo, some kind of drug. perhaps in their food? that could explain the kitchen problem. that way ben can off them one by one. we all know he likes his poisons.

in that case, why would ben's man michael leave the door open for sayid/desmond? he has nothing to gain from that. i believe the survivors have a man on the boat who isn't michael... i'll work on that one...

i do believe regina went crazy, the upside down book and the drowning. it fits with the cuckoo crew story better than an underwater station.

so is this really the last of the oceanic 6? Michael can’t be part of the 6 or he couldn’t be going by a different name since he’d be famous and all. And Jin didn’t make it off the island, you guys mentioned he fake died in the plane crash. I guess it was Aaron after all...

I agree with many that the captain was a bit too forthcoming. No one with useful information gives straight answers on this show. Charles Widmore def set up the staged crash and is using that info against Ben.

Also kitten made a good point, what’s miles up to with that grenade? Hopefully we’ll focus on locke’s camp next week – see how that dinner went with ben.

CAM - i like your time line. if you read on lostpedia, we have a few clues that give us the approximate year this stuff happened, too.

1- Sun has the baby and Hurley visits her - this would happen in 2005.
2- Hurley is in the institution - this one baffles me a bit, and something tells me it might happen after the trial
3- Kate's trial - 2006, aaron is 2 years old, 2 years after the crash.
4- Jack freaks out - the newspaper clipping was from april 2007.

like i said, hurley's ff is the only one i'm unsure of, and i can't really explain why. there's just nothing really concrete in that episode that tells me whether or not it happened before or after kate's trial. the only clue would be the way jack acts.

I think it's Ben in the coffin too. That would explain why Jack is so upset over someone that is neither friend now family. He needed Ben to get back to the Island...JMO

I meant to say friend NOR family

i'm with you. i hated this episode and the whole thing was mostly a bore. i dont think jin is really dead though.. and i think thats why sun was calling for him the way she was bc she knows hes really not dead but probably forgot that the rest of the world thinks he is during the pain of labor and all. and the best part was juliet spilling the affair secret and sun slapping her. other than that... i was pretty dang bored.

Name of book being read by Zoe Bell character was "The Survivors of the Chancellor: Diary of J. R. Kazallon, Passenger" by Jules Vern.

Thinking about this now. Haven't you ever put down a book and then picked it back up to discover you have it upside down? I think there will be flashbacks with Zoe Bell showing what she was doing when she put down her book and why she rushed to pick it back up, not noticing she had it upside down, before she could be caught.

hey guys I just had a thought about last week's ep. (I just did a quick word search to see if anyone else brought it up but couldn't find anything.)

When Ben brings Juliet to see Goodwin's body, she freaks out and then says, "You KNEW this would happen! Why did you bring me here?"

Do you think Juliet knows about the ability to "see" bits of the future? Do you think Ben might have that ability? (I'm not talking about bodily tripping through time - just the consciousness.)

It's not really explained if once you find your constant you stop seeing the future or not. Maybe Ben has the weirdness and Juliet knows about it. That would make Ben's choice to send Goodwin out especially mean and dastardly, and his choice to bring Juliet to the body even creepier.
Anyone?

In the FF timeline you forgot the one where Jack goes to talk to Hurley when he is playing BBall

ooooooh ME Too: that is an EXCELLENT theory!

and makes sense too: Zoe Bell is way too cool for that tiny part she was given for that ep.

**NICE!!**
NOw I can't wait to see what she was doing!

jack goes to talk to hurley in hurley's FF - the one where he's in the institution. it's number 2 on CAM's list.

Has anyone ever explained what Sun and Jin were doing in Australia? I mean, if you're going from Korea to The United States, isn't Australia a bit out of the way?

I have 2 questions:
1.Why do they call the helicopter pilot
"lawnmower man?"
2.Why does everyone assume that Salyer can't be one of the Oceanic 6? Just because he doesn't live with Kate in the future? Did I miss something? HE IS MY FAVORITE, I DON'T WANT HIM TO DIE!

if i remember correctly though, the lawnmower man approached regina from afar and we could see her in the distance holding the book... which was already upside down.

at first i thought she was sleeping on the job but no no, cuckoo.

she'll show up in michael's flashbacks i agree, he obviously didn't make it very far off that island

AND seeing as though he shot anna lucia and libby per ben's orders, or blackmail, or whatever, he probably left the island knowing he was going to the freighter. to poison them all hmmmhahaha.

suzie:
here's the answer to your Lawnmower man question:

http://tv.ign.com/articles/816/816352p1.html

(haha I saw that film in the theatre! Terrible movie - legendarily BAD.:) )

kind of like a clone or along those lines, and that makes me think that the orchid station has some sort of cloning abilities...and that could explaine the fake bodies on the plane!

Chris,

I like the way you think!

Gerri,

That was also an interesting bit of info on the Lima Beans?!? Who knew?

I remember 3 hurley FF - one with him and jack and one with him talking to charlie. And then there was the one where he crashed his car. Are they all the same? Forgive me - brain is on LOST -overload!

C'mon! The best Sun could do is SLAP Juliet? I would have punched her. Maybe a couple of times!
That being said, I was disappointed with this episode, just like most other people I see. It was a tad slow and Really, Who didn't know Michael was on the boat. The big question is Where's Walt? I did however, kind get the the whole FF,FB thing with Sun and Jin. It made you happy when you thought they both made it off the island and they were gonna have their baby and all was well for them. Then BAM! you find out that Jin is "dead" and you remember this is LOST and for every good thing that happens, it is definetly counter balanced with a bad thing. That's how it goes on the island. It's sad and I actually said "That sucks." to my husband. It is what it is. Lots of unanswered questions but i kinda like how they are showing us who makes it. But it definetly makes more questions like "Why these particular people?" So onto next week.

Chris- I can't remember exactly what was said, but the gist of the conversation was Ben telling Jack something about if sometime in the future he wanted to get back to the Island, he hoped Jack would remeber their conversation. I'll see if I can find it when I get home.

T- Can't remember Kate's reaction (if she even knows) but Jack's reaction would have been bad, because at that point he's been trying to find a way back to the Island and Ben was his last real hope.

HH- But Jack WAS upset after the funeral, that's when he winds up on the bridge ready to jump, and has his dad meltdown (at least, I'm pretty sure, but I'll have to go back and watch it again. The brain sometimes gets confused with all this time jumping around. =))

Chris - Found it on LostPedia

Jack and Ben are playing chess in Ben's house at the Barracks. Ben expresses his regret that Jack is leaving. He affirms that he intends to honor their agreement, but suggests that the Island may decide otherwise. Ben also asserts that if Jack would leave, the day might come that he would want to return again. Jack disagrees and makes an aggressive chess move. Ben immediately retaliates with a defensive "castle" move.

to whoever asked about Juliet's knowledge of the gas/chemicals in the power station:
when Juliet and her married lover (goodwin?) were on the beach, he says something about, "I work everyday (at the power station) with chemicals that can kill people".
and Juliet sure knew how to open the door and find her way around the place!

I love Lost... but this season has really been insulting our intelligence. For me, The Constant has been the only vintage Lost episode. With all the "shock value" stuff they keep throwing out & the stuff purposly done to try to throw us off... its just not the same for me anymore! Its not subtle anymore & too over-the-top. I don't know if they have changed writers or what, but I am definitely not as into it as it was. And I am sad saying that, because I really do love the show (when its vintage!)... And Michael was the worst kept secret EVER. For people that were pissed last season because the flash-forwards got leaked, they don't seem to be trying at all now to keep things under wraps. I am just very disappointed... but I will hang in there because I have devoted too much to this show to turn back now. But for the most part, after every episode this season I have found myself muttering "lame".

FIRST, let me say I loved this episode.I tend to like the episodes where the actors get to show their chops.Last nights ep was so romantic, and so sad. Yunjin Kim is the best weeper since Meg Ryan played Betsy on As The World Turns in the 80s!! I cried everytime Sun did last night. (Possibly because 2nd to Sayid of course, Jin is (was?) the hotness! This is one of those episodes that supposed to set up the next one....and considering the next episode is pre-strike--it should be a doozy! I can't wait to hear what Michael nee' Kevin Johnson knows!
That said,

RIP Jin?
@ Brian said: according to Lostpedia, the date of death on Jin's tombstone was Sept. 22, 2004; which is the day the plane crashed. Looks to me like the story the 6 are telling is that Jin died in the crash.
----------------
Great observation Brian, thanks for that.

@ JMR said: You know when I saw Jin's phone get run over, I thought, "Wow, what a crappy phone." I should have known. They did the same thing in the season finale-flashforward with Jack's phone, which wouldn't have been available in 2004.
---------------------------
Interesting JMR, my first thought was " why does he have such an old model cell phone"?

@ jam session tonite said:When hurley asked Sun if anyone else was coming (i assumed anyone else from the 06) she said 'no' and he said, 'good'.
i thought that was weird...
--------------
jam, I did too. But, I'm loving Hurley more and more with each episode. I hope he doesn't turn into one of the bad guys.

@ Christine said:Is Regina the R.G. from the inscription on Naomi's braclet? Maybe Naomi's death was too much for her.
------------------
Yet another good question. Maybe they were sisters, somehow?

@Geri: Fun facts about Lima Beans-best post relating to this episode yet! Thank you!

And....of course Sayid knew it was the black box, Sayid is the MAN! Beauty, Brains and Brawn--the complete package!
As for those of you wondering why Des didn't show more emotion when he found out it was Widmore's boat....after all he went through in "The Constant"...why would anything surprise him at this point? Plus, he seemed to be taking cues from Sayid, they both played it pretty cool considering they'd just witnessed an anchored down Regina plunge to her death, and nobody else on the freighter being too surprised.

Stacy- yes those FF are all around the same time. Don't worry, we all have our moments :)

Someone asked why Sayid went along with Michael and didn't "out" him. I think Sayid is playing it pretty cool right now, just trying to figure out what is going on and who he can trust. He is the smartest Lostie and I think e figured it out pretty quickly that Michael might just be Ben's man on the boat. And yes, I think Michael is the man, there is no one else.

First time poster.

I LOVED this episode. But I haved loved them all.

I too thought the captain looked like the guy getting beat up in Bens tape- which led me to wonder if he is Ben's man on the boat-and maybe he would be of significance to Locke because he knows him in the "real world" And then I was thinking maybe Ben thinks Michael is also his man, but Michael knows the captain is really working for Ben and Michael is the one that slipped the note to Sayid and Desmond to warn them.

Just a thought....among many.

I was worried that Sun was going to end up dying, what with the whole ring in the bag thing. I thought it was great the way they mixed the FF with the FB. They had me fooled. Thought the writing was great. I was so angry at Jin for wasting all that time on the Panda.

I think Sun and Hurley would see Jins grave as a tribute to him, a place to remember him and a place to honor him. So it makes complete sense that they would go there with the baby. It's the closest she can come to being with him- whether he's dead or still on the island.

And when Hurly said "good" when Sun said no one else was coming I thought maybe she meant her family. And if her dad is in kahoots with Widmore- or Dharma..... I feel like the Oceanic 6 know who the good guys and bad guys are now. That's why their lying. They were either forced to or are doing it to protect the island.

Sorry if I spelled any names wrong.

Ok- a few things to comment on

If I was Sun and I had gone through all the things her and Jin had, only to be separated and raising a miricle child by myself- whether that separation is a result of his death or him still being on the island- I would be crying too, a lot, all the time.

And someone saying Sun couldn't be that skinny after having given birth. Another myth. She is a skinny lady. And it's her first birth. I was back to having a flat stomach two weeks after my first. Sorry ladies- and men- it can happen.

I'd give it about a C because there were some questions answered, even though we already knew some of them.

I called the dual flashforward/flashback thing semi-early on. One clue was that Jin's on the phone with someone telling them he's on his way before the scene where Sun tells the hospital to get him. I knew the 2 vignettes weren't going to go together and was fairly certain about Jin's.

And I don't think he's dead. I think he stayed on the island with the rest of the the non-O6ers, but to keep with the O6's story, everyone else is supposed to have died. I think the tombstone is meant to convince everyone else that he's dead, but to serve as a way for Sun to feel close to him.

As for the girl jumping off the freighter, I think it has to do with the whole gooing crazy thing. She didn't realize her book was upside down, and it reminded me of when Daniel couldn't remember 3 playing cards. She was probably affected by the whole time-shift-go-crazy thing and killed herself. I think there will be mentions of this later on.

All-in-all I thought this episode was predictable and over-publicized, but at least we have some more information confirmed and we can move on to the last member of the Oceanic 6.

Can someone figure out what it said in Korean on Jin's headstone?

Can someone figure out what it said in Korean on Jin's headstone?

lostjunkie - that was my point. he was upset, so ben is an option for who is in the casket. but i don't think he's the only possibility.

A few comments:
-I just checked in and there are 324+ comments. The consensus is that it was a bad episode, but it certainly has made people think (and post!). Is there really ever a bad LOST epi? Altogether now... "No".
-I am continually bothered by how Ben funds his 'projects'. The son of a janitor, who gasses his buddies and his Dad, where does he get the cash flow to extensively research the Losties, stage a plane crash, get feed on Whidmore, have stashed money in all currencies, etc... can anyone confirm that the Black Rock had gold or something? Maybe he's helping himself to the slave ship's gold stash?
-When Kate said to Jack after her FF trial that "wow, I've heard you tell that story so often, it sounds like you almost believe it", I resolved that the Losties are trying to stage their own cover up. Why I don't know yet (must have something to do with Ben and/or Abbadon), but I think its a safe bet that Jin is not dead, although I'm not sure that Sun knows he's alive.
-Something tells me that Hurley is going to save the day, much like his VW van moment... after all the times he has been gullible, he seems to be the point man suddenly... Abbadon comes to Santa Rosa and asks him, "Are they alive?" and Hurley flies to KOREA? Now when he asks if anyone else is coming, Sun said no and he said 'good'.
-I'm alittle mad that this gal throws herself overboard, as if they are introducing a whole new storyline to complicate things even more (possible?), but I'm thinking it must be significant because of her billable name... which leads me to the last point...
-I have always ranked the actors by popularity or celebrity status... Evangeline Lilly and Matthew Fox are pretty big celebrity names, even Elizabeth Mitchell (juliette)... kind of the A listers. Then there are a bunch of great actors, but not as popular, like Michael Emerson and Terry ... oops, I lost Locke's real last name. Anyways, thinking about that, I would guess that the 'explanation' for the whole show will somehow center around the lead actors, which are Jack and Kate... Probably get attacked for my theory, but I'm just sayin'...
-Last thing: do you do anagrams?

toxins stale - lost in texas

i mean, as an anagram.

Love this blog and your theories..
Here are a few thoughts I had. The guy Widmore is beating up on Bens tapes looks like Claires boyfriend.. Isn't he Aarons father?? And the pictures he paints are in Desmonds office in fb and in the hatch mural, very intersting .. no one ever mentions him. The paintings are what Locke sees when he does not put the numbers in the computer kinda of alien looking.I don't know what to make of this. I also think Walt is on the island with Ben and that is why Michael is working for Ben. And Sayid is working for Ben in ff to get back to the island. They really need to get back to the island for some reason. I think they mixed fb and ff last nite to show what a bad husband Jin was and how evil he was before he came to the island. The island not only cures people it makes them different in good ways. What do you guys think I feel your the experts

oh, and why would a slave ship have gold on board? it doesn't add up to me. and how would ben just go into a bank or something and say, hey, i have these gold bars, can i get some currency? i don't believe in any way that the black rock is his source of income.

suze - 12:32p.
baby + goop comment - I said the same thing! poor kid!

I need my Sawyer fix.. I want him to be one of the 6

i don't think jin was evil in the flash back last night. he wasn't running one of the violent errands for mr. paik - he was just delivering a panda to the maternity ward, and he got pissed at a guy who stole his taxi. who doesn't get mad when that happens? the flash back was just meant to throw us off.

Geri - That's an eye opener about uncooked limas. Good thing canned beans are already cooked. Not that I'm a bean expert, but I felt compelled to respond with what I know about the beans. I guess Sayid and Desmond would be OK with the canned beans, thank God. They have enough to deal with.

That is one crazy freighter, what with the woman walking the plank in chains, the nasty bloodstain on the wall, the weird "Dr.", the banging on the wall sound and the going-nuts of crew members. Like a demented haunted bad pirate ship. Maybe the crew is overwhelmed by the influence of the island pulling them in/down as if they are the bug in the spiderweb.

On a totally different topic, maybe Ben and Juliet are made for each other like Ben thinks they are. We'll see if Juliet is really put off by Ben or maybe not so much.

Taken from Lostpedia.... Black Rock could have had gold, it was a trading ship...

..."From what has been discovered so far, it seems that the ship may have reached the Island on its way back from Papua New Guinea. Its mission was to reach Africa, where it was to exchange gold for more slaves. However since the ship ended up to the east of Papua New Guinea it would have been traveling the wrong direction, east instead of west. And indeed it was stated by traders at a Papua New Guinea port that the ship set sail east instead of west."

There's a black market everywhere for everything, he would never walk into a bank... its a good question, where DOES he get the $$?

hh
I just meant it showed his darker side in fb last night. We know he was not a caring husband to Sun and did her Dads dirty work. But on the island he was much nicer. ok

I have no time to read the other posts at this time, but I wanna put this out there ASAP. Sorry, if this has already been said.

In the scene on the beach, Juliette describes what will occur with Sun if she does not get off the island. To my best recollection, it seemed like Sun would die in 3 weeks. So, if this episode offered nothing else, we now kinda know a time frame for how long it will be until the Oceanic 6 get off the island................don't we???

that's a good point about exchanging the gold for slaves; but i still think he's getting his actual money from somewhere else. like he has a higher connection that can get him any currency he needs and multiple passports. getting gold off a ship from the 1800's seems kind of silly to me.

juliet says in about three weeks she would be in a constant state of nausea, the next week she would have shortness of breath, the week after she would go into a coma, then after that she would die. so they need to leave within three or four weeks, it seems, but she wouldn't die for about 6 weeks. she's only 2 months pregnant, and the women died in their third trimester (3-6 months).

sawyer....oh, sawyer, where art thou?
imo, sawyer is one of the main characters of this show...my favorite from the beginning. he has to remain on the show. if his character dies, i'm not sure how i would react. we/i need a sawyer-centric show soon.

sorry, had to rant for a moment.

Really liked the episode, even though the Jin flashbacks threw me off. Sun actress is so good - heartfelt and stuff. Liked the freighter scenes the best. Sayid and Desmond most attractive action type characters. Agree with an earlier poster who commented that Desmond has seen so much, that to learn Widmore owns the freighter would not make him react by now. Want to see more Ben all the time. He's the main, most dominant and crafty personality. Runs rings around Locke, and everyone else, etc. Ultimately Ben will prevail as he is utmost, smartest survivor. Like a rat, hyena and snake combined.

right, but Juliet makes it sound like, once the symptoms start, things are irreversible. Therefore, if she doesn't get off in three weeks, she would eventually die before giving birth. Don't ya think?

and the third trimester is the 6th to the 9th month.

Posted by: Goldielocks | March 14, 2008 04:32 PM
And the pictures he paints are in Desmonds office in fb and in the hatch mural, very intersting .. no one ever mentions him. The paintings are what Locke sees when he does not put the numbers in the computer kinda of alien looking.

Um, what?? I do not understand what you are trying to say here.

Toxins Stale- Terry O'Quin won an Emmy last year- I am thinking that makes him a pretty big name. But I have to respectfully disagree, your name doesn't make your character's storyline any more important than the rest. They killed Charlie, he was a pretty big name for this show since it came on right after "The Lord of the Rings" and all.
p.s. good to have you back. there doesn't seem to be any jerks around this week.

I liked the show.
odd that Sun can see strangers walk past her delivery room and they can see in. and the change in doctors + pain med but no c-section, seems like it all has some meaning (i don't have kids so maybe i don't know what i'm taking about). switched babies or rosemary's baby type thing??

I think Jin is still alive when she visits his grave, he is someplace and she knows it.

hh- pretty fast on that anagram. :)

If Hurley is going to take a leadership role in the FF's he better get himself out of the nut house soon.

Ben is off the island in the FF. I'll bet a zillion dollars he can come and go freely off the island anytime he wants to. Whether he is selling off gold from the Black Rock, or getting it by other nefarious means I don't think 3.2 million is going to be a problem for him. I hope they go back to the Miles story soon. I want to see him talk to Jacob. You just know it's going to happen.

TeresaLynn- 100 points for wordusage: nefarious. Very nice.

To Toxins Stale:

Hurley as the one to step in and save the day? You could be on to something there. I would love to see that occur. Guess we all like his true, simple honestness. But maybe that's is why he goes nuts and is confined in mental ward though, when he is eventually hounded by the negative forces and his conscience back in the real world upon his return. I am concentrating on Hurley to rise above it.

Cam-Thank You ;)

I've heard posters talk about the Lostpedia sight and I finally went to it today. OMG, I spent about an hour learning soooo much today (yes- I have to get a life and I will as soon as this season comes to an end). I highly recommend the site for anyone who is a little confused about any of the past epsodes or characters. I've seen them all a couple of times and I still learned a ton.

oh, yeah - i meant second trimester is 3-6 months. oops! but yeah, it could be that it's irreversible, but maybe, just maybe, not. the doctor did say something about "the drugs (or medicine) make a natural delivery difficult". so it could be that she started to get sick, then got treated as soon as she got back.
but you brought it up to establish a sort of time line for getting off the island, and i absolutely agree with that. it seems likely that they get off in the next few weeks.

One question---where's walt? Also, I was kind of wondering if they were going to kill Jin, seeing as every other actor who has gotten a dui has been killed off..........I loved Jin.....and for the record, Asian babies are the cutest!!=)

Anyone catch the doctor delivering Sun's baby say something about the medicine making natural child birth difficult? Is she taking something to stave off island sickness?

Hello. It is my understanding that in Korean culture, when the first spouse dies, a marker or tombstone is erected with both the husband and wives dates of birth, followed by the date of death of the first deceased. This is to underline the importance of marraige as an everlasting commitment. When the remaing spouse dies, they will be burried on top of the first deceased.

This is exactly what we see on Gin's stone so I believe that there is no further mystery to gleam from the fact that Sun's date of birth is on there stone as well. I believe the show wanted to be as culturally accurate as possible.

As a side note, am I seriously supposed to believe that Sun was born in 1980 and Gin in 1974? Would that make Sun 27? My math is not very good, but she does not look 27 IMO.

Hope this was helpful.

Also, the wife is supposed to be listed first and the husband second. Sometimes cremation is chosen and a stone is placed without an actual body...just info I forgot to mention above.

I am new to the blog, thanks for sharing! In discussing why Jack wouldn't want to see Aaron: it got me thinking WAY back to Claire's back-story. Didn't the psychic have her on the plane because he/she (can't remember which) said there was something wrong with the baby?

*Jin (sorry)

My eyes are buggin' out of head from reading this entire blog from beginning to end. I think we should reflect on an earlier comment

""... Lawnmower Man seemed to walk away from the helicopter with a fresh paper bag with lima beans. Like he had been to the store..."

Could civilization be close?

Here is a dumb question!?!? Why did Sun want to get to Locke's camp so badly anyway? Did she think she would get answers from him? Please ... he's just as sneaky to make sure things go HIS way.

...and why was Juliette so panicked Sun would go? Is she REALLY worried about her well-being? Personally that chick freaks me out. She lies ... and lies and then lies some more. SHE can't be trusted! HELLO!

Ok, enough for now. i just found your site a couple of weeks ago and I've become a thelostdiary.com junkie!

Meme, Out!

FYI, the reason it was so important for Jin to bring a panda is b/c pandas are a symbol of China and Mr. Paik wants to do business with the Chinese ambassador.

Also, no way was Regina heading down to the Looking Glass. The freighter is 80 nautical miles away from the island which is much farther than Charlie and Desmond could have paddled in an afternoon. Not to mention it looked like those chains were wrapped pretty tightly around her and probably not so easy to just shrug off underwater.

havent read all the comments...and wanted to state my opinion before i read, and was persuaded by other opinions. during the entirety of the LOST series my least favorite flashbacks were always the Jin/Sun flashbacks(and i am only talking about the flashback portion of the story, and not what was going on ON the island in that particular episode)....always seemed a bit blander, than it needed to be. this one, however, was my favorite of the Jin/Sun stories..and i was MUCH more engaged/invested in the episode....and i have a LOST theory that has nothing to do with the storyline. I think the writers got off track with the writers strike on the horizon and that the last 3 eps before the strike (this one, last one & next one) were written half-assed. expect next week to be at best a C+ episode, and the first episode to air after the hiatus to be ridiculously good, A+

Daniel, I thought it was hillarious when you said the only thing that could spice up the boring "Sun delivering her baby" scene was if the kid comes out black! You are always soooo funny!

Hey all. I'm posting under a new name now. I was off my meds last week and did not want to look stupid for coming back after I said I would not. For give me?
LIT

Anyone else notice that at the end of the epidoe, when Sun said Jin's name, it sounded like she was pronouncing it differently a few times?

"How is catching a fish karma?"

Amen!

Yeah - this was a little slow. But so sad. I love Jin. And his baby is gorgeous!

Someone out there please explain to me why in the hell Juliet would tell him about Sun's affair? I hate Juliet! Lauren - I was cheering too -- though I think something far worse needs to happen to Juliet, and soon.
There was no need - if she had said Sun will die 2-3 times Jin would have kept her at the beach.
Juliet is just a hag.

Lauren wrote about Jin "he is one of the best, nicest, wonderful human beings on that show, so i'm bummed he got killed off. that character overcame a lot and transformed into this great guy, amazing husband, faithful friend, loyal LOSTie, and courageous fighter/survivor. so why kill him off?!"

Yep - those are the kind of changes that so far get characters killed off. Look at Shannon & Eko -- as soon as they became vastly different from who they were when they were stranded they died.

I seriously thought tbat Lapidus had takeout for Sayid and Desmond for a minute there!

This isn't the 18th century. There is no pregnancy tribunal that is going to throw Sun in jail if she doesn't come up with a good account of how, when, and where she got pregnant. If asked, she could simply say nothing, or say it's none of your business, or lie. Same goes for Kate with Aaron. So no conclusions can be drawn about dates, deaths, stories, etc. based on the children. We can only conclude that Jin is actually dead or Sun wouldn't be crying at his grave, and she lied about how and when he died, since we know the date on the tombstone is false.

Also, I don't recall anything from past flashforwards that suggest that there are still people alive on the island, or did I miss something. I think people are just assuming that.

Cam
What I meant to write was the Desmonds Swan hatch mural drawing and Claires boyfriend (Aarons daddy) paintings are so alike. I know this may sound far out there , but Thomas (claires bf) is a blond and could he be the one Widmore is beating up and could he be annies son by Ben he kinda looked like Ben What do you think??? Remember Desmonds drawing was things that happened on the Island after he drew it oh the mental image of Ben with a women gives me the creepy crawlies

Question: When did the fishing boat get made? Who made that?
Hell, on "Cast Away" Tom Hanks, got off the island with, sticks, VCR tape, a plane door and a volley ball.

No, you are correct-this episode SUCKED. We all knew that Michael was the man on the boat and the boat is the most interesting thing at this point in the story-the Captain, the crew, the chick who goes for a death swim...wearing chains, whatever. Why they did a combo flash is retarded. It didn't really advance the story as you pointed out I think AND the only great scene was when Julie dropped the dime on Sun that, I didn't see coming.

So yeah. Not impressed by this episode. I hope next season they can make every episode one to remember then again, we are all here, talking about it for better or for worse.

Mar said - "As a side note, am I seriously supposed to believe that Sun was born in 1980 and Gin in 1974? Would that make Sun 27? My math is not very good, but she does not look 27 IMO."

Keep in mind that it was 2005 in Sun's FF, so she would have turned 25 in March of that year. (Or did you mean that you thought she looked older than 27?)

My comments from the TMZ blog about "Where's the karma?"

There's much more to this episode than there appears at first glance. When Jin came into the tent with dinner, he asked Sun to be honest and tell him who was the father of her baby. That's when my jaw dropped and I realized again we're revisiting the sins of the fathers -- he had to die because his issue is resolved.

Where's the karma in catching the fish? On the island, Jin has become like the man he rejected for not being good enough: his father, the fisherman. The same father who took care of him EVEN THOUGH he knew Jin was NOT his son -- remember Jin's mother trying to blackmail Sun? It's the yin/yang thing.

Go back to each of the character's father issues: Sun rebelled against her father and married someone "beneath her" who became just like her controlling father; and she had an affair because of it; Jin rejected his own father to become like Sun's father.

Jack becomes the thing he hates the most about his father; Kate uses violence to stop the violence her stepfather inflicts; and so on. The question of why does god (the father) allow bad things to happen to his children/good people is also something I'm mulling over in context.

Just my thoughts on the overlying theme.

Second time posting. Have so much reading everyones comments. Thought I would chime in this time.

Most people didn't care for this episode but I loved it. Fully had me crying. Jin and Sun are great characters. To see their characters come from where they were (via earlier flashbacks) to how in love they grow to be just to have Jin end up dead was overwhelming to my tear ducts!

I know a lot of people didn't like the episode but it did give more possible clues about the time line (post "rescue").
Of course it also posed more questions. How does Jin die,if he is really dead, and why is the date of his death the same day as the crash.
That doesn't make any sense for many reasons and I am sure we will have to wait to find out what is behind that cover up .
On the Michael-man on the boat. Yes we had all figured out he was the one on the boat. They should pass a new rule with SAG or websites like IMDB that on shows of this nature, you are not allowed to reveal the name of actor(s) appearing in an episode until the end of the episode that they actually appear in.
It really helped give it away.
If we hadn't been tipped off at the beginning of the season that moment would have had stronger impact
His story better be good!
Oh hated when Juliet went all "BY any means necessary" and spilled the beans BUT LOVED the slap. Don't piss off a pregnant lady honey.

I was wondering if anyone thinks this show will make a feature movie al' X-Files or 24?

Hoping they will wrap it all up when the series ends but at the same time wondering what we will do when we start to experience Lost withdrawal.

Anyway LOVE this blog, everyones ideas and opinions whether I agree with them or not. They all keep me thinking and/or laughing (in a good way)Just adds to the whole lost experience. Keep them coming!

brahman - no, we don't know for sure if anyone is still on the island. some of it i think is hope, but we have had little clues. just a couple off the top of my head: 1) ben tells sayid, "you want to protect your friends, don't you?" we don't know if he's talking about the other O6 or people on the island; 2) abaddon goes to see hurley, and asks, "are they still alive?" to me, that's a pretty big clue that there are people still alive on the island. so while we don't have any confirmation about survivors on the island, we have had some subtle hints.

oh, and dead-charlie tells hurley, "they need your help." 'they' seems like he's talking about people left on the island.

A few things:
1. Haven't read all the posts, so not sure if someone said this already, but I LOVE THE FACT THAT JIN IS DEAD. I was really pissed to think that they had revealed all of the Oceanic 6. I love to think that there is one more out there and we still have no idea who it is.

2. Karma is a principle also found in Buddhism which is the religion of choice for 25% of South Korea. It's kind of like being surprised when a French guy knows what a croissant.

3. Again haven't read the posts, did anyone suggest that perhaps Jin is alive on the island because he couldn't return and possibly face death at the hands of Sun's father, however Sun needed to return for the baby and that is why he is "dead?"

4. Nothing really, but I do love how some people are giving Daniel a hard time and telling him to take the show as entertainment and enjoy it. That was great. However I'd like them to refer back to last week's Ode to the Tube, and after reviewing that know one should ever ask Daniel to lighten up on television again. Viva la Constantin Perskyi.

morethan1person- the fishing boat came from the Other's I believe. It is the boat that Kate and Sawyer took back to the main island.

I think there are poeple alive on the island still because the controversy with the 6 is all about going BACK to the island. Why would they want to go back if there was no one to go back to?

Actually, I just looked it up on Lostpedia. It is the same boat as the one Kate and Sawyer took back to the main island, but then Karl took it. It is the boat he used to warn the Losties that the Others were coming a day earlier than Juliet was originally told. So that is how the losties end up with the boat... long story, but the question was answered! :)

As for Sun having to get off the island in the next 3 weeks...I don't think that's necessarily the case, because first of all she has to wait three weeks then she gets sick, etc. but notice how freaked out she is during the labor - it's never "I'm contracting" but rather "Something's wrong," which makes me assume that she thinks that something SHOULD be wrong...why would she think that? Maybe she made it off the island during the shortness of breath time, somewhere in there or maybe into her 3rd trimester and therefore its lucky she's still alive, let alone still pregnant and having a normal birth. I think she's got a few months left on the island, everyone does. It's kind of strange to think that through all this time though the Oceanic 6 won't even by on the island for more than five or six months probably, judging by the whole Sun-pregnancy thing. Makes me feel boring when I reflect on the last five or six months of my own life lol

One last question...I wonder how far away from the island you have to be before it makes people go crazy? Remember when they take the boat to the other island where the other's kept alex's boyfriend, etc. no one went crazy then. It wasn't as long of a distance but still it kind of makes me wonder if it's not just this island but maybe that island too...maybe it's an entire vicinity that has strange powers going on...?

Rewatch "Flashes Before Your Eyes." It is so with "The Constant." When Desmond wakes up in Penny's apartment on the floor with red paint around him he acts very similar to how he acts in the constant, not knowing where or how he got there. He also then acts as though he remembers flashes of bits (the number 815). This is the episode he meets Charlie. Maybe this was a glimse in season 3 to the time traveling sickness of what was to come. Now this episode seems so much more important...It rains too!

something floated on another discussion board...

what if Harold Perrineau is playing a grown up Walt, not Michael?

Does anyone know when lost will return?

look at the Orchid Station video on YouTube

Chris,

Just watched the video. I'm sure this was probably posted back when this was first aired on Lost but did you notice the 3 interrupts of the tape? Like they had taped over something or was it outside interference? The first an outside scene of tall buildings and the last a boy riding a bike in what looked like the same area as the buildings. But the interesting one was the 2nd one which was very fast and I went back and paused the video to see what it was. It was a blue screen with the words "God Loves You as He Loved Jacob." Sorry if I'm repeating something everyone already knows.

I think the funeral that Jack referred to was Jin's.

The coffin was small because no one is in it, she is having a funeral for him anyway because she is keeping up the cover that Jin is still on the island.

Kate says "Why would I go to the funeral" because she knows Jin is not dead, but only still on the island, so why would she go to a funeral when no one is dead.

The actress for SUN is absolutely fantastic.

why wouldn't anyone go to a funeral for Jin, especially Sun?

"she is having a funeral for him anyway because she is keeping up the cover that Jin is still on the island"

Don't think this was supposed to be Jin's funeral. I don't think Hurley was there for anykind of memorial service. The tombstone looked like it had already been there awhile. Would there not at least have been a minister or whatever to give last words at the cemetery? Which makes Hurley's question even more interesting?? If there isn't a service, or it's already taken place, why would anyone else be coming?

Ok, so first off I have been watching Lost since day one and LOVE LOVE LOVE it! I have however just discovered the Lost Diary this season...which is surprising because I check TMZ almost everyday... Anyway, I love reading all the comments and getting more insight and picking up small details here and there that I missed myseslf. I haven't read through all the comments, so if this is a duplicate, I apologize in advance. : )Here's some things that caught my eye:
1. Did anyone else think the captain looked/sounded like the drill sergeant Des saw in his flashback (I think flashback)? Also, looked like he gave a weird "I know you from somewhere" look to him.
2. When Hurley showed up I thought his comments were really weird also...almost like they were having an affair or something oogy like that.
3. I think Jin is still alive, but the death had to be faked for whatever reason. Jin and Sun had to accept they would never be able to see each other again in order for Jin to stay alive. That would make me cry like Sun did at his grave.
4. Anyone else catch the strange look Jin snuck in at the woman who gave birth? I couldn't place if it was deceiving or a yearning look.
5. The bloodstain in the state room looked like it could have been self inflicted also. If someone was standing up facing the door and shot themselves in the head...and the girl who jumped off the boat..WTF? I must have missed the part where she was reading upside down and they introduced her as Regina.
Overall, I liked the episode and agree with many of the other posters...ANY episode of Lost is better than most other episodes on TV now. I so look forward to Thursdays! : )

No idea who's in the casket (the funeral Jack goes to), but i'm getting a feeling it's someone Sayid kills in his post-island life as an assassin.

All LOST episodes are great! I loved this one.

Jin/Sun: Love their storyline. Obviously Jin did not die on September 22, 2004. I think he is still alive presumably on the island with the others left behind. There are still people alive on the island. Who's left is not clear. Sun would have called Jin (if he was 'local' and she could call) if she thought something was wrong.

I too thought Michael was the man on the boat. But just because we were introduced to Kevin Johnson that doesn't make it so.
Walt is obviously still on the island.

When Sayid & Desmond are in the room & Sayid hears 'banging on the pipes' that is morse code. The look on Sayid's face suggested to me that he was listening. Someone should try to figure out what the code was.

Regina (Regina is the girl who Daniel speaks with on the phone) jumped down to a 'looking glass' type station. You do not wrap your entire body in chains if you are trying to die. No one looked up because that wasn't her first time.

Desmond says to the doc...'this boat isn't moving..? the doc says..'whatever you say'.............strange?? yup!

back to Hurley visiting Sun --- unclear what's really going on but it is FOR SURE before Hurley ends up back in the mental hospital.
Before Jack visits him & before Charlie's 'visit' to him.

***Just a couple of notes regarding some of the posts.

1) The DUI's have nothing to do with who stays on the show & who doesn't. That's just silly. Actors go to rehab & their spot is saved. So to suggest that the creators of LOST are on such a 'no tolerance' policy is just silly.
2) The boat name was Kahana not Karma.
3) Sun's accent - (regarding believable details) She does not have a perfect American accent if you listen closely. Also she was learning English way before the crash to get away from Jin. She was going to ditch him at the airport. Remember?

LOVE this blog, all your posts are great.
Daniel - thanks for posting every week. There are answers every week the trick is to find out what they are. They aren't just going to jump out at you. C'mon this is LOST. What fun would that be!?

I think Hurley came to see the baby. Remember how baby crazy theh Others are. I'm sure there are going to be people interested in how Sun's delivery came out. She would be the first woman to actually deliver a baby that conceived on the island. Granted she probably got off the island before any symtoms started, but I'm sure people will be interested all the same. These may be the people Hurley is referring to when he asks Sun "is anyone else coming?".

We still don't know the conditions of how the O6 were released and who actually got them off the island, but it doesn't sound like any of them are actually living the great life. Too much guilt over the people left behind.

I think Hurley just came to see the baby and check on Sun. Remember how "baby crazy" the Others are. I'm sure there are going to be people interested in how Sun's delivery came out. She would be the first woman to actually deliver a baby that conceived on the island. Granted she probably got off the island before any symtoms started, but I'm sure people will be interested all the same. These may be the people Hurley is referring to when he asks Sun "is anyone else coming?".

We still don't know the conditions of how the O6 were released and who actually got them off the island, but it doesn't sound like any of them are actually living the great life. Too much guilt over the people left behind.

Lookit me, I want people to know who I am so I come up with a witty name but then my desire for attention forces me to point out that my name is an anagram...

You are a loser! And an attention whore.

whoever posted that last comment is NOT welcome here. This is a place for LOST theories and if you choose to use it for something else like taunting others you are definitelly NOT WELCOME.

Erin, you rock! I loved your post about Jin catching a fish - becoming just like the man he rejected for not being good enough (his father). And about how when someone's issue is resolved, then they have to die. So, will Desmond die soon? Will Jack live forever 'cause he can't resolve his issues? And exactly what are Hurley's issues?
Hurley always seems to me to be the pure goodness person of the group. He didn't kill anybody or screw over anybody. I think he will be real important somehow, soon.

I think we can start piecing together how this show will finish...
1) The 300 bodies found at the bottom of the ocean are taken back to their homes and buried
2) The Island not only alters peoples health but also alters TIME. How do we know this? a) Sayid and Des leave on a helicopter to the frieghter. People on the island wondering where they have been for a couple of days call them and they're still flying in the chopper (when Des is freaking out). They obviously weren't flying for 2 days. b) Unclear about the timelines with it being christmas eve on the boat and maybe a different day on the island

3) My prediction is that only the 6 of them get off. 8 if you include Aaron and one other character. The rest get stranded on the island either voluntary or involuntary. Hence the reason Jack wants to go back but cannot. Maybe the Oceanic 6 are led to believe that they may have died after being left behind. Hence the reason Sun cries at Jin's fake grave.

Continuing to piece the direction of the show.

"You do not wrap your entire body in chains if you are trying to die."
actually, this is what made me think that she did commit suicide. her entire body was wrapped in chains, which would make her sink faster and would make swimming impossible. plus, they are so far off the island that it would just be really deep, open ocean.

I'm with you, this episode was weak sauce. The highpoint was watching Sayid throw Michael against a wall in next week's trailer.

ak - actually, i think in the episode where they introduced the "rescue" team, the news cast said that recovery was unlikely or impossible. so the bodies would be left down there and everyone was just declared dead. otherwise, i think family member or a coroner or something would be able to use dental records or whatever to discover who the people really were.

hh...yes but...really deep open ocean with possibly a station strategically placed & secured. possibly undetectable.
She wouldn't need to do much swimming if measures are taken below to gather her in shortly after she jumps.
The chains were wrapped around her rather nicely, almost correctly. Wouldn't it be more half-hazardly as is she was just crazed & wanted to die. They have weapons on the boat. Why bother with the drowning if you can end it in a second with a gun shot. ...

I agree with HH- she was jumping in to kill herself. No one did anything because their people have been dying around them constantly. She probably tied the chains around herself so that she could sink quickly and so no one would have the chance to save her. I am sure we will find out more about her story soon.

AK - "My prediction is that only the 6 of them get off. 8 if you include Aaron and one other character."

What exactly do you mean by One Other Character???

I think the 6 have alredy been revealed, and sorry but Sawyer is not one of them. He doesn't want to leave so he won't.
Jack, Kate, Aaron, Hurley, Sayid and Sun.

Just because people did not leave the island does not automatically mean they are dead.

If Aaron is considered to be one of the six, then Sun and Jin's baby would also have to be considered a survivor. He definately is Not one of the 6.

Maybe the freigher tots capture Ben and that's why he is back in the states, then being Ben he is in control again giving Sayid orders to kill.

but sun's baby wasn't born on the island. aaron was. i think that may be the distinction. and while i don't want aaron to be included in the 6, i kinda am starting to think he is.

Suzie - Hurley did kill people, although unintentionally, when he walked out on an overcrowded balcony and it collapsed. That was the beginning of his feeling that he's unlucky (even after winning the lottery) and being committed. I think he's good at heart and will lead the 'escaped' losties back to the island in the last season.

Speaking of Sawyer, yummy!!, did anyone see the interview with him in last weeks Time Magazine? Here is a quote from him when asked if he reads the blogs:

"I don't read them, but I get morning updates from my wife. Audiences are a lot smarter than the studios give them credit for. They don't want cliches shoved down their throats."

Erin - Just like Suzie I think your Jin reconciliation entry was awesome! Makes me glad I kept reading 400+ posts. So here's how I think the series will play out (subject to change of course). This season we'll find out how the 'escapees' get off the island. Next season the episodes will alternate between the losties left on the island, the escapees, and ben/economist. Final season, it will focus on getting back to the island and finding resolution for the surviving losties. Just a theory... what do you true lost fanatics think?

terese- Sun's baby wouldn't be one of the 6 since it wasn't born yet when they get off the island.

Lost Buddy- minor detail, not too big of a deal, but the balcony collapsing is part of the reason Hurley is in the institution. He doesn't win the lottery until much later.

ME Too- thanks for the quote. See, they know we are smart and are probably trying to keep up with us and our crazy theories. We might just be crazier than the writers.

Time travel is involved.

The 6 were let off the island with the agreement they keep it a secret.

I suggest watching the movie Millenium with Cheryl Ladd and Kris Kristofferson.

I bet all who watch will have to scrape their jaws off the floor. It provides some AWESOME insight on Lost. The creators and writers of Lost are sci-fi buffs. Millenium is a great sci-fi flick. Some interviews have great revelations.

In one interview they mention how in certain plots they pay tribute to Star Wars.

In another interview they mention how Jacob has made a non-vocal appearance before the cabin scene. The writer also mention that we'll probably never hear him speak as well.

Lost Buddy- that is what I have been thinking since the finale last season.

I just had another random thought- Ecko's brother looks similar to Abbadon. (Or maybe I just WANT them to look similar) Do you think it is possible there is some sort of relation there? Just a thought.

Someone please watch the movie Millenium, if you haven't already. I am 100% positive that this movie helped inspire Lost.

Is anyone curious as to who Ben told Locke was his 'man on the boat?" I think there are a lot of us who are naturally assuming it is Michael...but that would be too obvious and Lost just doesn't operate that way!! I, for one, cannot wait until we find out what Ben told Locke. You all know Ben is a master manipulator who loves to find what someone is vested in emotionally and exploits it!!! I think it is just too easy to assume he told Locke that Michael is his man.

We got it Texas Joe- you don't need to keep telling us to watch it over and over.

Nan W - Good point. I was just thinking it was 2007 or 2008. You are right it would be 2005. So...Sun would have been 24 when she crashed on the island??? 25 when she had the baby. Crazy. No way she was 24. I thought she was at least 29 or 30 when they landed. Does anyone know how old the actor is in real life?

CAM - Yeah I didn't make that clear about Hurley's timeline; thanks! You're on of those true lost fanatics I was talking about. I've have to watch Millenium after the ACC tourney ends. I like the idea that time travel is involved in the cover up. I've been struggling to understand how 'they're' going to explain to the world how 8 people (initially) survived the 815 crash.

MicheleD,
You are 100% correct. Locke had to sit down for Ben to give him the name. Locke would not have been surprised if it were Michael, just like we were not surprised that he returned.

Ben has been made out to be the creepy antagonist. But, I have a gut feeling that one of the twists at the end of the series is that he is actually the good guy.

If LOST goes in the direction of that rediculous looking movie, Millenium, then it is not the show I know and love.

I think we are forgetting that the Losties don't know everything that the viewers know. I think Locke would be plenty suprised to know that Michael was the man on the boat. He does not know all that we know, he is limited to his point of view.

Sorry about being so persistent with the movie, but it would be a great coincidence if it had nothing to do with the show.

To me the movie explains the following:

1) the 324 dead 'stand-ins' on the flight
2) Why several people have seen Walter
3)Why goodwin's wife 'magically' appeared to Juliette warning her to kill faraday and the Charlotte.
4) It explains how Lockes father was in an ambulance one minute and in Ben's closet the next.
I can go on and on and on.

I'm just trying to spark curiosity in you. It will this conversation even better than it already is.

Anonymous,

If you watch this movie, you can see a lot of similarities.

Why are you Anonymous?

do you think there are aliens on LOST??

Anonymous,

I believe many sci-fi works inspired the show. Watching the movie will give you some clues not what the whole show is about.

I'm referring you to a source of clues. Just how, I am sure, if someone reads every book referenced in the show, you can find some connections.

Too bad, I don't like to read.

Is there a good place to find quotes and interviews from the Lost writers and producers? I see posts containing these snippets, but I never can seem to find the source online. I hate spoilers but the writers often give information that they think we should know at the current time.

cam - i agree - the losties don't know everything we know. plus, in the preview for next week, sawyer says something like, "the same guy that sold us all out to get off this island?" that, to me, is a pretty big indication that it's michael. who else would fit that description?

Anonymous-I don't think there are aliens. But then again, these writers are awesome. I'm sure if aliens were a part of the show, they will be very creative on how they incorporate them.

But some of these characters are creepy! I was watching the Faculty today and they reminded me of the Others.

Hillary, I too thought Desmond gave the captain a "do I know you from somewhere"?" look. Have been trying to find what the connection might be but no luck so far. Great board, Lost rocks.

I usually find interviews on you tube.

Michael=man on the boat

Although I have to say I am not huge fan of the character. I am suprised he has lasted this long without getting caught. He wasn't always that smart and acted irrationally out of emotion.

Michael, Michael, Michael, what are we to do with you?? Hopefully he learned a thing or two since the last time we saw him.

ahhh, youtube... should have known! thanks texas j. anyone know how long the writer's strike hiatus between episodes 8 and 9 will be?

hh- Some interviews on the DVD sets are also interesting.

Yeah I think it's a safe bet that Michael is the man on the boat. Even though it was a bit obvious I like it because it fits. Maybe Michael will even redeem himself to the Losties since Ben (seemingly) continues to exploit him. I just hope we aren't subjected to anymore of Michael screaming for Walt!

Hey Lost Buddy, no problem.

Cam- I'm sure you are right, but this show has so many curve balls we turn everything into a twist.

lost buddy-someone in this blog mentioned the 9th episode is schedule to appear Apr 22ish?

I wonder if time travel will even come up again this season? Lost seems to introduce these big concepts and then just sit on them; leaving all of us to dream up crazy and fun theories!

I liked the episode, but if I read through all the comments here before Wednesday of the next week there apparently isn't much to talk about.
Has anyone else noticed that we tend to really like the hottie guys and really not like the hottie girls? Not including Jack and Sun, because Jack's so messed up in the head he's not even cute anymore and Sun's just sweet.
The captin, hubba, hubba!!
My first ever blog post:)

Cam, that was my point. Neither aaron nor ji yeon are the 6. they didn't survive the crash cuz they weren't born yet.they were born after the whole crash. That means they are not one of the 6 survivors.You need to be living to be a survivor.

Cam, that was my point. Neither aaron nor ji yeon are the 6. they didn't survive the crash cuz they weren't born yet.they were born after the whole crash. That means they are not one of the 6 survivors.You need to be living to be a survivor.

Terese- my point is that Aaron is alive when they are rescued and Ji hasn't been born yet.

Jeez Daniel, sometimes I wonder why you even watch the show anymore. :)

I can think of at least one reason why Jin would still be alive; if he had stayed on the island. Sun may only have left so that she could deliver the baby safely, and then intends to return. I don't pretend to know why Jin wouldn't leave with her, but if there's a conspiracy going around, it makes sense to claim him as 'dead' instead of 'oh, he just decided to stay, no biggie'. Not sure if anyone's posted this yet, but his gravestone has his death date as that of the date of the crash.

I don't fault the writers for the mislead with the flashback/forward thing. The Lost writers regularly deceive the audience (how many times have they tricked us into thinking a scene was taking place on the island when in fact it was off, or vice versa?), it's a one of their favorite techniques. I admit it can get a little wearying trying to anticipate whether what we're seeing is actually what it seems, but that's the nature of the show. And there have been a number of times where they've written a scenario that seems entirely lame and hackneyed only to have it make perfect sense half a season later. I give Lost a lot more benefit of the doubt than almost any other show because in the end, they usually deliver.

P.S. I'm still an advocate of the "Michael is Ben's man on the boat" theory, but as of yet (as others have pointed out), we don't know it for sure. All we know so far is that Michael's on the boat. He may have nothing to do with Ben.

Liz - Yeah Lost is definitely a show deceives you, but then makes up for it. I watched this episode with my sister and at the end she said, "Aww, that was cruel"! Poor Jin, even if he's not dead, it was sad. Excellent tv though! So question for you, do you think that Paulo will return at some point like the VW bus did?

ATTENTION NIKO: There is no reason to be rude about others peoples very good theories!! I personally love the inventivness of the people on this site. You need to check your "holier than though attitude" and apologize for your rudeness!!

This just occurred to me. Ben to Juliet: "Do you know everything I've done to keep you here?" Since he's proven that he's psychotic, not just a dictator, it's likely that Ben (who killed his mother during childbirth) was killing all the pregnant women to keep Juliet on the island. It's very likely that Sun was not in real danger.

Interesting theory Katie. Juliet said something about the pregnant women's white blood count increasing and the immune system attacking the host. Maybe Ben is poisoning them with gas or something or using the island to make them sick somehow. I've also heard a theory about the island killing pregnant women because Ben's mom died in childbirth and somehow his connection to the island is causing this.

Interviews with the writers can be heard on itunes - podcasts, subcribe to Lost. and also on abc.com. and others mentioned youtube already also but the podcasts are good.

Lost episode 9 premiers April 24 at 10:00PM EDT

Thanks Season and Official Lost Podcast!

When Hurley came to visit Sun, she put on her wedding ring apparently from the baggy that it was put in at the hospital.

Does anyone else think it's odd how thin Sun was? How old was the baby when Hurley came to visit? Was she fresh out of the hospital or had some weeks passed? If weeks had passed - why did she wait until Hurley showed up to put on her ring?

Not sure if it means anything - but seems a little strange.

Also, I think Regina was in love with that girl who parachuted onto the island and that Locke killed. The bracelet that girl was wearing I think was a sign. I simply think Regina jumped off the boat because she was distraught about her girlfriend dying.

Oh - and the way Hurley said "Goooood" when he found out none of the others were coming to visit the baby? How odd was that?

Thanks for the positive comments on my observations on Jin/Karma. As a new poster, it's nice to hear. I have not allowed myself to delve too deeply into my love for LOST and its layers of stories, lest I spiral into obsession and a dissertation.

As a writer, I'm fascinated the most by the characters. I love Daniel's blog, but I couldn't sit back and let everyone miss the karmic/island/life significance of what happened with Jin and Sun.

Thinking more about this and the relevant flashbacks -- Sun's issue has always been deceit -- from big, bold lies to those lies of "omission" designed to protect those she loves from the bitter truth (Jin's parentage). From the breaking of the ballerina (which she blames on the maid) to turning a blind eye to her father's brutal crimelord regime to her affair, learning English, etc -- Sun lives a giant lie each day. Even when she is caught in bed with her lover, her lying continues, aided by her father. She knows her father had her lover killed, but says nothing. (Which makes her almost an accessory to murder.)

When Juliet forced Sun's truth into the open by telling Jin about her affair (a calculated Ben-type move, that one) and her fears about the baby, Sun reacted by pleading with Jin to "let her explain". As if she had an excuse that would make everything "OK."

Up until Jin walked into the tent, I was certain that Sun was going to die -- because I believed she would finally come to terms with truth. (Smoke monster or baby death?)

BUT -- something happens that we have yet to see that requires Sun to continue/revert to living a lie. And so, she has yet to reconcile her life issue. Which seems to be what each of these people are searching for -- resolution of their past.

I don't dare allow my brain to try to start on the time travel/Bermuda triangle stuff. I'd never leave the computer. :>)

oh, Texas Joe, I cannot believe you think Ben could really be a good guy.
Let's see, what all has he done? Gassed to death a whole community of people, including HIS OWN FATHER; shot Locke; ordered the kidnapping of God knows how many children; Had his "daughter's" boyfriend being tortured in some brainwash room; ordered Kate, Jack and Sawyer to be kidnapped; had Sawyer believing that his heart would explode because Ben implanted something in it; had Kate and Sawyer put in cages; oh the list goes on and on.
I say Ben is PURE EVIL. Juliet too.

Erin, dang girl, keeping that analysis flowing ;) Written anything that could be found on Amazon? Ok, so we feel that Jin came to reconciliation in this episode, but what about Sun? What does she need to resolve and with whom? Any theories on what the other surviving Losties need to resolve before they, uh, I guess die?

Speaking of Hurley's unluckiness off the island, did anyone catch the conversation