The Lost Diary

Daniel, FYI, No work gets done by me on a Friday untill the blog is up and read. You owe my boss thousands, dude.

You didn't have the OMG moment when Alex was offed? My jaw hit the COUCH! So impressive. EXCELLENT scene.

My old answer to your question was " Who is Jacob"... after last nights episode however what I'd like to know most now is "what is the nature of Ben and Widmores relationship.

I give the episode an A.

XXOO
-E

great episode. i knew that Ben was going to say that Alex wasnt his daughter and pretend she was nothing to him. i also felt that maybe Keamy, with his sexy self, was going to kill her anyway. but, i never expected Ben to actually care. it was kinda nice seeing him be a human. great review Daniel.

I thought the Black Smoke Monster was great. I can't wait to learn more. Now we know why Sayid starts working with Ben. This episode was a A+

I forgot it was on *horrors* and must pay huge thanks to TiVo for recording it. Thank God- it was wonderful.

Did you notice Ben's mischevious smile when walking away from Sayid? After he said, "Sayid go home and mourn, this is my war, not yours" I thought he was sincere... that twisted look and smile as he walked away led me to think he set Sayid up the whole time... which led me to thinking that in the FF's we've seen, Sayid has done all of Ben's dirty work. He killed the guy on the golf course, Elsa, now this guy... the blood is on his hands completely.

The doctor is safe on the ship because of the 'relativity issue' of time that Farraday eluded to. He hasn't been killed yet, would be my thought, right?

Anyone notice how Lawnmower Man makes an appearance in the scenes for next week, as if he's with the soldiers? Says something about how "they'll kill you if you don't..." How does a guy contracted to do nothing more than fly a helicopter get knee deep into everything?

This was a pretty good one, I was driving bf and friend nuts by predicting things and being right about it. I won the game last night. And we saw the human side of Ben. Any episode that brings a human side to him instead of his cold composed self is good. I missed you, dude.

Can we have a full season of just Ben, Locke, Hurley and Desmond???

I thought that this episode was great. Although I have many questions about Lost, what I really want to know from this episode is... since we learned that Ben has control over the "Black Smoke", why then did it (or Ben) kill Ecko?

Is it possible that Ben killed Nadia and set it up for one of Widmore's men to look like he did it? All he showed Sayid was a photo of the man driving a car about 3 blocks from where and when Nadia was killed. Ben could have killed her and set it up so Sayid would help him with his vendetta against Widmore and his people. Since Ben is a mastermind, and obviously was pleased that his plan worked (note smile on his face after he walked away) I think my theory is likely. I laughed out loud several times in this episode: when the doorbell rang after the shootout, when Farraday says anything, when Ben pulled the gun out of the piano bench and handed it to Sawyer, when Hurley says almost anything. I do agree the shootout was lame, Sawyer was uninjured and everyone else was easily killed outside (maybe the island wouldn't let him die, just like Kevin/Michael! I thought this would be the moment that Claire dies, which would have explained why Kate had him in the future. OH well, another time perhaps.

After Lost was over, I realized there was a lot more questions that left me very hungry for more. To me, this means it was a most excellent episode. Though it didn't produce a lot of answers as Daniel explained, but it left you ravenous for more! It was surprisingly good for what it didn't explain. THough, I did laugh at Sawyer not getting hit but all the poor "extra's Being picked off like flies. lol. And how did Claire look as if she just passed out after her HOUSE exploded? Ok, maybe the island had something to do with it.

And lets just say it, were Ben and Charles lovers? They question of "Since when do you sleep with booze next to you?" is a rather revealing question of a possible old relationship, and that Charles said to Ben that " You took all from me" meaning, after they bitterly split up, Ben took the island as revenge? Just thoughts, and though why BEN can't kill Charles is very interesting, is Charles immortal because of the island? Or can only BEN not kill Charles.

And how did we know Jin was still alive?

I was in the kitchen during a commercial break and walked in to find Ben in the desert in a parka. I was all WTF too. Loved smokey to the rescue. At first I thought the cave Ben entered was a doorway to another time and that was how he ended up in the desert. Guess not seeing in hindsight that he was not wounded at that time and not wearing a coat. So I'm not the sharpest tool in the shed. Had to give this episode an B+. Would have gotten an A if Claire had been blown to bits. In the real world, she would have been crispy critters.

I definitely had an OMG moment when the smoke monster blasted out of nowhere! I did not see that coming. I felt that this was a pretty great episode, and I wasn't even disappointed when I was left with more questions than answers. But I'm getting pretty bored with the beach crew. I'm hoping things get more exciting with them quickly.

I absolutely loved that Ben controls the black smoke monster! I too wonder though why he wanted to kill Eko and also Locke (remember when it was pulling Locke into the ground). Maybe Ben thought Eko was going to be like Locke and be "special." I also liked how we filled in the gap about how Sayid works for Ben. Overall I thought this episode was great and I also think that Ben might have had something to do with Nadia's death to try and get Sayid to work for him.

I was so freakin glad Lost was back have been waiting!! I think that lostforever was right about the theory with Charles and Ben being lovers. The smoke monster was great glad to see it take out some people that need to be gone!! Gotta love the fact the Hurley has to take Ben to the cabin. I can't wait until the next episode definitley hungry for more questions and half answers!!!! LOL

Ben can't kill Widmore because Widmore is Ben's constant. I'm guessing the 'rules' involve killing family and friends, people that could anchor you will time traveling

I liked the episode. good call with the doctor and the time difference .. I was thinking the same thing. After all this show has been through I find it weird that its headed toward bens revenge for the killing of his daughter. And is sayid going to kill penny since he's doing the dirty work. I think desmond will get off the island and reunite with penny. so theres that. overall I can't wait to see this develop more

Charles Widmore thinks the island is his and that Ben took it from him. Does that mean that he owns Dharma and is referring to when Ben gassed them all? Or is he referring to something else?

Ben says, "but you can't even find it"- meaning future Charles doesn't know the islands whereabouts despite the freighter guys getting to the island and killing Alex? How could he not know, unless Ben kills them all off before they can report back?

That being said, is that why he bid on the first mate's journal of the Black Rock, somehow trying to find the island? Must be I figure...

And... Ben suddenly 'appears' in the Sahara Desert wearing a winter parka with a shoulder wound. He's carrying some stick which we later see him use and again has behind his back when entering Widmore's apartment... whats that?

I have to think that Charles not knowing where the island is, the FF of Jack scouring maps and coordinates, the discovery of a Dharma polar bear by Charlotte in the Tunisian desert and now Ben's sudden appearance in the same country of Tunisia in a winter coat, nods at the island's ability to 'hide'. Vortice theory? Time travel? Something!!! Somebody refresh the Vortices again, where's the cold weather one located (Ben had to come from there wearing the winter coat)-

Also, anyone catch all the carvings on the wall behind the back of his closet?

I'm not so sure I believe Ben when he says that one of Widmore's men killed Nadia. Seems too much like him to manipulate things to get Sayid to do his dirty work.

Do you all remember that scene from earlier in the season when Hurley and Jack were in that basketball court and Hurley apologized to Jack for going with Locke? (Do I have that right?)

I thought about that instantly in this episode when Hurley decided to go with Locke rather than leave with Sawyer 'n' Co. For some reason, I think that was the pivotal moment; not when Hurley didn't stay with Jack at the beach to wait for the freighter.

Thoughts?

I think Ben can't kill Widmore because he is Ben's constant for when he time travels.
Ben time travelled to the desert.
For some reason Ben is not able to kill anyone-Locke lived when Ben shot him & he needs others to kill for him- has had the Others kill for him- has Smokey kill for him and now has Sayid lined up to do his bidding in the future

Wow... good call on that Cate. You're totally right! Ben CAN'T kill anyone... why is that, I wonder?

I wonder if Ben's "specialness" has to do with the fact that he was born to a time-traveling mother.

I loved the episode, and I have watched from the beginning, but this one confused me so much! Thanks for the review, Daniel, to help me put it all together.
When Ben was in the desert with the parka, I hoped it was going to explain the Dharma polar bear skeleton that was found in the desert earlier this season.
Then I thought Ben was time travelling, like Desmond and Minkowsky. He looked so disoriented when he woke up in the desert, and maybe Sahid was his constant, but he can't be time travelling because he took the "vaccine," right?
And Smokey - instead being a stompin', dinosaur-like cloud - he was a freight train on a mission this time! He looked a lot bigger than usual!
I love that Ben will never run out of secrets and surpises to pull on us - secret passages and martial arts and all. Keep them coming!
I agree with Archie - a season of Ben, Locke, Hurley and Desmond - and Sahid - would be just great.

I loved this episode...though "The Constant" still has the top spot in my book...I found myself rooting for Ben and it is amazing how he has slowly but surely become one of the good guys...(quote?)...
Not sure why, but my biggest WTF moment was when he checks into the hotel, and the look on the woman's face when she reads his name in the book...fear? terror? Would love to know why......
Good job on all you are doing...

JGomez - I love that! I totally agree that this is what Hurley apologizes for in the FF with Jack!

Sooo glad sawyer didn't get offed yet!!

With regard to the face of the hotel clerk who checked in Dean Moriarty... she did have a look of terror on her face when reading his name...

Found it strange that he announced he was a Preferred Customer... so he's been there several times!

My first time posting here (wife-referenced).

I can't give the episode an A (or A+), but it's a solid B. "Gunfight" was lame; maybe there's a reason the boat people are wanting to keep Sawyer alive (which Locke or Ben alluded to when he finally made it into the house). The Alex-Death scene was magical, though, and rescued a possible B-.

As soon as we realized Ben is on his way up to a penthouse, I was afraid there was some Ben/Widmore partnership. A "friendly" competition isn't much better, although threatening to off Penny takes "friendly" off the table.

Do we know Widmore isn't behind the entire Dharma Initiative? Maybe that's why he "owns" the island?

I don't disagree with you too often, Daniel, but there were OMG moments. My OMG moment last night: When the smoke monster turned out to be Henry Gale's little pet. Here Smokey, Smokey, Smokey!! Good boy, sick 'em!

My OMG moment today was Cate's post that Ben can't acutally kill anyone. Awesome! Is it true? He's never personally killed anyone? AFTER he killed his father and everyone on the island, that is?

Did anyone else get a jolt when Hurley said, while playing RISK, "Australia is the key to the whole game." ? Think of how many of the losties have a link to Australia. Thoughts?

One last thought-Ben says that Locke needs to stay alive. I think Ben needs Locke to stay alive so that he can care for and "Hide" the island while he is off it. Locke would stay behind because he has nothing at home and possibly risks the chance of being paralyzed again while at home-he has always expressed that he won't leave the island.
Ben knows that Locke has the ability to control the island while he is away because of him "hearing" Jacob. Thoughts?

Ben says to Charles that "we both know I cant do that (kill him)" - so Charles is fully aware of who Ben is and what he can/cannot do.

I think the Risk game was forshadowing for understanding the war between Ben and Widmore... Ben said "He changed the rules"- when someone refers to rules, they are referring to a game, otherwise they would say "rules of engagement" for war, or "laws" ... he said 'rules'.

The Risk game said (Hurley)"We're all gonna die. He wants us to fight amongst each other"... (Sawyer)"I'm taking Serbia"... (Hurley)"I can't believe you just gave him Australia... its the key to the whole game"...

Oceanic 815 took off from Sydney Australia and yes, my guess is that its the key to the whole 'game'.

For the "If Ben can't kill anyone theory"....when he landed in the desert with the 2 guys, didn't he shoot the first one and just beat the other guy? Did he kill the first guy or just wound him?

Here's a Vile Vortice Recap. Good thing I emailed it to a friend of mine!

This is all I could think of the whole show. Especially with Ben showing up in Tunisia like the bear. I didn't think he looked confused so much as in pain. He knew exactly what to do when the guys showed up with the horses and knew exactly where to stay (had even been there before!). I love this theory.

108. Just a general theory regarding the island that I happen to agree with:

The various boats and planes arrive on the island via Vile Vortices. There are twelve "bermuda triangle" style areas around the world, dubbed "Vile Vortices." The most famous of the twelve are of course the Bermuda Triangle and the Devil's Sea near Japan. Some believe the Vortices are connected to each other via electromagnetic 'grid lines'. Of particular relevance to LOST are 4 - possibly 5 - different Votices: the Vortex located in the Pacific Ocean near Fiji; the one in the Mozambique Channel, East Africa; the one over the western Sahara desert; the one in Antartica; and (possibly)the one known as the Bermuda Triangle. The island acts as kind a central dumping ground, where the ships and planes and such are drawn to after entering one of the other Vile Vortices.

Those vessels brought in through the Fiji location: Flight 815, Danielle's veessl; Desmond's Boat; Henry Gale's Balloon? It would also explain why both of the helicopters from the freighter experienced electrical problems and the instruments were spinning - reputed to have happened many times in the Bermuda Triangle.

Those drawn through the Mozambique Channel Vortex: The Black Rock - the ship located in the middle of the island (Remember, in the episode "Exodus, Part II", when they came across the ship, Locke said the ship "must have been en route to a mining colony. Probably set off from the eastern coast of Africa--Mozambique".

Those drawn through the Sahara vortex: Eko's brother's plane. (in "Deus Ex Machina" When Boone entered the plane we saw a map in which the word SAHARA was prominently featured. Indeed the camera panned up from Nigeria to the Sahara suggesting that this was the plane's route.) It would also explain how a small beechcraft ended up thousands of miles away from its intended destination. Also, the polar bear Charlotte found was located in the Saharta - the polar bear could've been shipped FROM the Fiji vortex to the Sahara one - either on purpose by Dharma, or by accident.

The Antartica vortex: The two men at the listening station, who informed Penelope that they located the signal, could have been stationed in/near this vortex; A discharge emanating from the electromagnetic anomaly on the Island is enough to trigger one or more of the Vortices to open. It is also enough to alert the 'outside world' as to a disturbance via the electromagnetic grid lines.

The Bermuda Triangle: Juliette left from Miami - perhaps they used this vortex to quickly transport her to the island.

Also worth Noting: The name "Miles Straume" -- a clever play on the word 'Maelstrom' meaning a powerful type of VORTICE or whirlpool.

Posted at 2:05PM on Feb 8th 2008 by LOSTie

Posted by: LOST in TEXAS | February 8, 2008 01:22 PM >>>>

"Clearly someone slipped me acid during the commercial brake."

Totally!

If the episodes stay this strong for the remainder...

1st off, Ben is gangster...he's got guns everywhere (piano bench shotgun)! Then he make quick work of the 2 Tunisians, and is a smart ass on top of it. gotta luv it. on another note, where r the Others? I kno they're @ the Temple, but would they have gotten the warning that Locke & Sawyer received via telephone? Also, if the captain & his men r on the island (Lawnmower Man, presumably, is also on the island), who's left on the boat? Minkowski, Sayid, & Desmond? also, "when" was Farrady sending the morse code message in relation to the shootout/Black Smoke-out w/Ben? Plus, in the preview 4 next week' episode, Lawnmower Man is saying something like "if they find out they'll kill u" or something like that. Who is he talking about? the Commandos? I would assume the Black Smoke would have eliminated them...

I find it very interesting that now only Hurley can find Jacob's cabin. Not Ben, not Locke.
Hurley is the only one of the losties who is essentially pure good. He hasn't intentially killed anyone or committed adultary, or blackmailed anyone, etc.
Locke used to be all spiritual and stuff, but then he got crazy and killed Naomi, and now he threatens to kill people all the time.
I can't figure why Ben could find Jacob before, but not now.

ALSO, I guess this shows that the smoke monster is not Jacob. Cause Ben could call the smoke monster, but still needs to find Jacob.

I think Sawyer and Claire will both live, but stay on the island. (maybe as a couple?)
*(maybe I just HOPE that's what happens)

I still think hurley apologizes for going with jack for something we haven't seen. good call with widmore bidding on the black pearl log. been killed nadia. he's too manipulative to want to help sayid for his loss of his wife. what's with the black smoke? somebody explain a reasonably logical explanation

SUZIE! GREAT CATCH!
I think you're on to something. Hurley is the only truly good one of them, and thats why he saw Jacob's house. My guess is that Locke lost Jacob's house and that ability to see it after he killed Naomi, right? I think thats chronologically correct-

Couple of things:
1)So why is Ben a regular visitor to Tunisia?

2) I feel like I missed something with the date (October 2005) - that doesn't seem like enough time passed

3) Dean Moriarty is a very interesting choice of an alias. Who would Ben's Jack Kerouac be?

4) I liked Cate's theory about Widmore/Ben being each others constant. I also thought of a Biblical reference that could fit. If anyone is familiar with the Book of Job, God and the Devil have a conversation and it gives the impression that they are friends as well as adversaries. I got the same impression with Ben/Charles. Particularly when Ben got so upset that the rules were broken. Maybe the Losties are Job.

5) I would be pissed if Ben succeeds in killing Penny. The love story between her and Desmond is epic.

I also like the theory about Widmore being Ben's constant. But Ben does kill on the island - he killed his father.

Great episode! Here are some questions...
Why was Sawyer only concerned for Claire when all these other survivors are running around and being gunned down? Where in the world did all those other people come from? How did the shooters pick off so many people with such great shots (ie Carl, Russo) and never come close to Sawyer?
Ben sent Alex to the only safe place left on the island. What about his secret passage or even time travel? Seems like having her totally off the island would be safer than running thru the jungle.
If Ben can't kill anyone, shall I assume he didn't kill the man on the horse during his time travel?
Why do they need Hurley to find Jacobs cabin? Ben and Locke have both been there before. Hurley stumbled across it in the dark and was totally lost and disoriented. Locke then happen to find Hurley.
And my thought on the smoke monster is this. I don't think Ben controls the monster. I think he can contact the monster and made some sort of deal with it. You come kill these guys and I will do something for you. I can't wait to see how Ben explains this!!

Have to bring this up because its killing me:

Everything that Ben said at the end to try and save Alex, saying that she was nothing more than a pawn, a baby he stole from a crazy woman... all of that we think is true, right? Now, granted, after raising the girl her whole life, Ben is going to feel something (hopefully) for her death, but I have always had this uncanny feeling that we don't know the whole/true story of how Alex came to be Ben's daughter.

I guess it always gets me thinking because I still want to know where Annie fits into this (as the writers have said her importance to the show is 'seismic')... Any thoughts?

So in these few weeks since Lost went on hiatus, my roommate and I re-watched the entire series from the beginning, because the other roommate had not been a Lost watcher. (Of course they watched a few before I got home from work, but I'll let it slide or now). Consider him hooked now. Strongly reccomend going back to watch some episodes, in particular Flashes Before Your Eyes, if you haven't already done so. So many things come to light.

Getting to this week, I have wayyyyyy more questions than Daniel. But I do have a possible answer to one of his. He asked why Widmore thought the Island was once his. Widmore Corp. has connections to the Hanso Foundation, which was a partner in the DHARMA Initiative. Widmore very well may have been associated with that and had some control of the Island when DHARMA was there until Ben took over and purged DHARMA.

To answer just me's questions about Lapidus, pretty sure that was the "errand" he went to run when Sayid and Desmond asked where the chopper was. But the problem with that is, how did the captain get to the Island when he was on the boat talking to Sayid, Des and Michael when Alex was shot at?

I have so many other questions too. Why doesn't Ben know where Jacob's cabin is? He found it before. Why does he need Hurley to find it, and why does he think Hurley can find it again if he can't? Why didn't Miles, the ghost whisperer, go with them to see Jacob? Shouldn't he know about Jacob and be able to communicate with him? Did Ben get to the Sahara through a vortex? From Antarctica, or wherever Penny's guys at the listening post/research station were? And "when" did he leave to end up there in Oct. 2005? How long after the 6 leave the Island is that? Why does Sayid tackle Ben, say to him, "you animals (or something like that) follow me to Tikrit? You spy on me?" then see that it is Ben and look stunned, and ask, what are YOU doing here? Who did he think it was? Do the freighter folk actually know about the doctor but are lying? We've never actually seen someone be in two places at once, except in their mind, and even then it alternates back and forth. What were the rules before "he changed" them? No innnocents get killed? Just a not-so-friendly competition? Does Ben really "control" the smoke monster, or did he just release it and now it is going to wreak havoc all over the Island?

So much other stuff, but I feel like we are being pointed in a direction now. And when they started shooting random Losties I said, looks like they finally decided to thin out the extra pool!

Jon, to answer one of your questions I think at first when Sayid tackeled Ben he thought Ben was a Paparrazzi (sp?) and he was mad at them for following him around when he was trying to mourn. Remember when Ben saw him on TV how mad he was at the paps? So that is what I initially thought and then he realized it was Ben.

Can't remeber if we actually saw Ben kill his father or did he have someone else do it for him?
Maybe its not that Ben can't kill anyone but that he needs Sayid so that he can build his own "army" perhaps he lost all his "others" or old army when everyone else from the plane doesn't return home for whatever reason

*I think the "Temple", where Ben sent the others and tried to send Alex, is a way off the island. That is why we haven't seen any others lately.

* I think there will be a big showdown between Sayid and Desmond. Ben will send sayid to kill Penny, Des will protect her. Sayid is a sucker for a good love story, so he won't do it.

*some one earlier said Ben and Widmore have a relationship of some kind. I think they are RELATED. Half Brothers maybe?

Help me here, could they be brothers???? Thats an awesome idea, doesn't it have some biblical reference? Cain and Abel?

The heir to the island would be the first born and Charles is obviously older than Ben

I also found it weird that Widmore usually has an English accent and last night he had an Australian accent...

I liked the theory that Ben cannot kill anyone BUT he killed everyone on the island by gassing them in the past. Does that count?

How come no-one talks about what Miles said about Claire. She walked out of the room and Locke asked if she was all right. Claire said "Yea...just wobble, not dead" Miles said "Not yet". Miles can talk to dead beings....he knew that Michael was lying when he got on the boat, so he must know that Claire is going to die!!!
So Happy That LOST is back on!!!!!! I missed it soooooo much!

Anonymous: Hey, I really liked that Idea!
Ben and Widmore are brothers and heirs to the island. Widmore is older, so HE inherits the island. Then Ben steals it from him somehow.

But who was their DADDY? Christian Sheppard? Jacob?

Or maybe they inherit from a GRANDFATHER.
Good old Grandpa Jacob Hanso?

I think they are brothers. Just the way that Widmore kept calling him "Benjamin" like he was a child. He called him "boy" too. It seemed to me like they were related.

Okay, the question I want answered next week is - what exactly is the smoke monster and where can I get one? How awesome would that be.

Maybe that could be the "rules" that got changed. DON'T KILL ANY OF OUR RELATIVES.

Ben didn't kill Nadia. He was still in Tunisia (?) when he saw Sayid on TV. The better question is if bald guy was actually the killer (and from Widmore) or just someone Ben set up to recruit Sayid.

Also, am I the only one who's thinking Alvar Hanso = Charles Widmore?

If Ben and Widmore are brothers, why would Ben say (when threatening to kill her) "Penelope, is it?" There is some connection but Widmore seems more paternal to Ben than fraternal. I'm so confused--but I love it! I love reading all your posts--such great info and theories!!

Ben is the bomb! Seriously, I always thought so, but last night showed how amazing he is. In a really scary way, of course. The way he manipulated Sayid was masterful. But I knew they would kill Alex. That fuels what happens in the future and it makes so much more sense now. That was the one thing Ben didn't count on. Guess he is human after all. But the Jason Bourne stuff rocked and was definitely a surprise. I thought he would talk his way out of it like he usually does.

And why was I not sad when Claire's house blew up? I admit I was disappointed when she barely had a scratch.

And I had to laugh at Miles ringing the doorbell. How funny is that? And like Daniel, I am loving the quirky Mr. Faraday more and more.

Love seeing Smokey back too! I missed him, and he was particularly badass last night.

What do I want answered? The connection between Ben and Widmore.

I still believe that water has something to do as a conduit for the time traveling- remember how we were all hooked on Widmore's using paper to turn on/off the water when he met with Desmond and stepped OVER the water on the floor to walk out (ok, both are pretty normal things to do but seemed strange to use in the scene unless it meant something)... if they are brothers/ if they are fighting over the island/ I would think its safe to assume that Widmore knows about the time traveling/vortices, but then why can't he find the island? Is he bouncing through time like Ben?

I don't think Ben's constant is Charles. I still think his constant are the dolls that he has kept this many years-

*******
First off, Desmond is a bad guy. (I have always believed this) now that Ben is after Penny to kill her, and Desmond is in love with her, I predict a Desmond versus Sayid showdown over Penny!!!!

But before that, Desmond will do a lot of harm to the Losties by stupidly protecting Whitmore.

****

TOP 5 THINGS WE LEARNED THIS WEEK

5.Ben had Nadia killed(not Whidmore)to get Sayid to help him(probably for his future battle with Desmond).

4.In the "coming next week" bit after the show we learn Jack's pain is his appendix!? why? I am guessing they will use it to bungee off the island to safety.

3. Ben unleashing the monster on the military bad guys was AWESOME!!!! again, Daniel doesn't know what he's talking about. That thing was taking out bad dudes like a train. (best if seen on an HD TV) But the guy who killed Ben's daughter is still alive. He will become important.

2. BEN DOES NOT NEED HURLEY TO FIND JACCOB. He only says that he does, becuase A) Ben knows Hurley has seen it and can trick Locke into thinking he is the only one who can find it.
B) Can use Hurley for some other reason.

1. The island is in some sort of TIME WARP, added with the SMOKE MONSTER... this show is going to end up being one big SCIENCE FICTION show, the next "X Files meets Twin Peaks"... WHEN it could be so much more than that.

The show was great it gets an A+.

Unfortunately, we learn that although the shows' will be fun to watch, ITS GOING TO BE A STUPID ENDING TO A GREAT SHOW.

Whidmore versus Ben??
Come on, these two werent even in the first season and now its all about them.

Its time to kill off Ben. I hope he gets a DUI in Hawaii soon.

How are, ahem, were Ben & Alex related? If I remember correctly, he took Alex from Rousseau when Alex was a baby, and that Rousseau was pregnant when she arrived on the island. This doesn't make Ben her father (well he raised her so maybe it does), or any relation 2 her whatsoever. Unless Ben hasn't been truthful about Alex's origins.

i don't get the smoke monster at all..what is it? the whole smoke monster idea initially seemed hokey to me when it killed ecko. and can ben really control it? b/c he made sure he and everyone else ran in the opposite direction. and i'm equally confused about jacob. who is he?? anyone have any guesses? and do we assume he's "good" or has some power over the island? i hope they shed more light on these two aspects in the upcoming episodes.

According to Lostpedia, Alvar Hanso would be wayyyyy over 100 years old, but apparantly looks half his age, tipping to the idea that he succeeded in finding the Fountain of Youth (the island perhaps?)

so jack looking like shite means he's finally coming down with the sickness right?? i have a question about whidmore tho...he said the island has always been his...always would mean since the beginning, right?? so maybe he doesnt age like richard. that made me think of jacob asking locke to help him...are whidmore & jacob one & the same and since whidmore cant get to the island jacob is held prisoner?? but by who? obviously not benn cuz he cant even get there without hurley's help...weird.

Anonymous is right Widmore is affiliated with the Hanso Foundation and DHARMA. If I'm not mistaken I think I remember he owns the company that manufactures or packages the food dropped off on the island and probably is a big investor in DHARMA in other ways. That's why he claims the island is his and that Ben took it away when he killed DHARMA off and set up his own "project" on the island.

so jack looking like shite means he's finally coming down with the sickness right?? i have a question about whidmore tho...he said the island has always been his...always would mean since the beginning, right?? so maybe he doesnt age like richard. that made me think of jacob asking locke to help him...are whidmore & jacob one & the same and since whidmore cant get to the island jacob is held prisoner?? but by who? obviously not benn cuz he cant even get there without hurley's help...weird.

We all know that literary references are very significant on Lost

The name of the episode was "The Shape of Things To Come" which is also the title of a book, published in 1933, which speculates on future events from 1933 until the year 2106. It is not a novel, but rather a fictional history book (from Wikipedia)

So, are the flash forwards real or mere speculation????

wow wow wow to lost in texas about that whole vortice thing. i must have missed that when it was discussed originally.

anyone see any flashes of light when the smoke monster came? there were always *good* and *bad* people lights in it when it killed before. and no, i dont think ben controls it- i think he has to make a deal or something of that sort. otherwise it would have been used many more times than it has i think.

I cant remember either- did the smoke monster show up when Hurley found Jacobs cabin?

And does anyone else think its odd that Sawyer is being all protective now?

i dont think Ben is powerful at all. i think he is just manipulative/resourceful. i think he saw on the news that Sayid's wife died and took that as an opportunity to use Sayid for his bidding.

i still believe that Whidmore is the good guy in all of this. if Whidmore wanted to exploit the island, like Ben/Mr. Friendly says, then he would not go through great measures to cover up the plane crash. Ben has much more to lose.

Does the smoke monster only come out when Ben calls it?

My guess is that the black monster IS the island... remember all the talk, "The Island won't let you kill yourself, Michael" or Locke talking about the island as if it were talking to him, "The Island told me so"- the island seems to have a personality and I think it manifests itself in the Smoke Monster.

I have always thought the Smoke Monster was seriously stupid and the dumbest part of an otherwise amazing show. Hoping it has more significance than I have thought-

Ben obviously has a connection with the Smoke Monster, having entered the door behind his closet where he did... something to provoke it.

My question is more about who is Jacob and the ash around his house? What is that? Why is Jacob going to tell them what to do next? Jacob MUST BE Christian Shephard considering we saw Shephard walking around on the island , right?

I definitely agree with the theory that Charles Widmore is Ben's constant! Did you notice in the penthouse scene between the two of them that they only showed half of their faces?? They're each other's halves.

Ben needs Charles in order to continue traveling back and forth to the island. That's why Ben can never kill Charles.

The foreshadowing dialogue during the opening beach scene and the game of risk was great. Kate: "Do you have a prescription for that?" Jack: "I wrote it myself." AWESOME! Also: Did anyone hear Claire when she woke up from the explosion say "Charlie?" I read in an article that a Claire vision/dream was cut from this episode. Could her utterance of Charlies name be a reference to that vision?

another thing- where the hell IS desmond!?! one of the things that drives me so crazy about lost is when characters just up and disappear for episodes and we have no idea whats going on with them. Des has this great episode then we hear nothing... arg!

and i have to say there is NO WAY that ben would really care that much about his 'daughter'. he is soooo super trained in having no humanity at all- he would have told himself from the beginning to never get that attached to her because he would know it would be his downfall. and shes not really his anyway so i really didnt like that. it was obvious he was going to say he didnt care about her, but in reality, he wouldnt. that is, IF he is as bad-ass and smart as he seems to be.

So if Ben needs Charles to travel back and forth to the island, what happens if Charles is killed by someone or dies? Does Ben then suffer the *sickness* and die alone (yes I am eluding to the funeral parlor and the man in the casket)... I know we saw he was a man from New York with some name we don't recognize, but Ben's got a zillion aliases... who's to say Benjamin Linus is even his real name?

Hey Daniel...

I have a question to ask...could it be possible that Charles and Ben are brothers?? He did ask about when did he start leaving drinks at his bed side? Charles would be older since Ben's mom died at birth!

Hey Daniel...

I have a question to ask...could it be possible that Charles and Ben are brothers or msybe his uncle?? He did ask about when did he start leaving drinks at his bed side? Charles would be older since Ben's mom died at birth!

Ben seems to have an emotional contradictions when it comes to relationships with women. His mother's death, jelousy over Juliet. Now the death of his daughter

okay here i go...

1) i need to get this out of the way cause it really bothered me. ben said whatshisname was a 1st sgt (E8) in the marines but he only served for five years (that's nearly impossible - i was in for four years and i got out as a cpl (E4). sorry but military innaccuracies like that bother me.

moving on to the actual show

2)alex was just TOTALLY unexpected. i think ben thought his whole i stole her, etc thing would actually save her...guess not

3) why is jack getting so sick all of a sudden? it makes me nervous. at least we know where his pain killer addiction starts.

4) get dressed kate, you suck.

5)ben turned into super BA and i love how he was walking around tikrit like it was no big deal. had some friends deployed there and from what they have told me that would be HIGHLY unlikely.

6) I TOTALLY dig who ever said whidmore was ben's constant. i thought that right away once he got to the penthouse. (side note...i like whidmore WAY better in this show than i did in ugly betty)

7) what i think about their whole discussion:
the island was whidmores all along. he has some type of connection to the hansos. he started/funded the dharma initiative. ben and the hostiles had the purge therefore ben took the island from him and now whidmore wants it back.

8) this whole constant and relativity of time thing is still confusing to me.

9) please tell me i will see me some christian sheppard. we really need to see jack and claire make their sibling connection.

10) i still cant understand why hurley saw christian in the cabin. this is what makes me think hes more important than jack and claires dad

okay thats all i can remember that i wanted to say. if i think of more ill letcha know.

PS who brought up the biblical thing of cain and abel? i never thought of that one. ill do some research on it.

PPS i missed ya'll! its good to have LOST back. LOL!

I was thrilled it was a Ben episode. My one question, why was Claire wearing a blond wig? I suppose she cut her hair for something else and needed to look the same for the show. But really it looked bizarre.

Did Ben really leave the group just to say goodbye to his daughter? Or did he do something else too? (Like put the smoke monster back up.)

And why is everybody suddenly acting like Miles is one of the gang? He is from the boat of bad guys. Hello! Wake up guys!

Ben landed in the desert because theres a teleportation device on the island..bank on it..

Ben goes crazy over women. However, the death of Alex may be secondary to the importance of Widmore "changing the rules", causing Ben to up the ante to keep the island, which in this case, is more important to Ben than Alex.

Hey Daniel...I missed you the last 4 weeks!

I have a question...could it be possible that Charles is Ben's Uncle (mom always did like you best). Ben seems to know him and he made the comment about the drink!

Just a thought!

Going with the half faces comment, I noticed that Ben was in all black and Charles was in all white. That goes with what Jack (?) found on Adam and Eve and also with the game Locke was teaching Walt. Two sides.....

MiteMike, I agree and I thought that the teleporter was behind the closet door, like suddenly Ben would just disappear into thin air... that being said, why didn't he just do that? Well, and maybe he does, which is how Hurley and Aaron get off the island with him?

Having said that, I think Kate and Sun get off the island with Jack due to Jack's sudden sickness. I think Hurley gets off the island with Ben. Locke stays behind-

It seems to go down like that somehow, but wondering then how Aaron gets in the hands of Kate, and does Jack know that Hurley gets off the island or does Jack find out when he sees Hurley's crash on TV? So many questions my mind is boggled and hurting...

Jack's sickenss looked eerily similar to Desmond when he was moving through time.... how could that be?

The minute it ended I said, "whitmore is ben's constant" which is why he can't kill him. But if that is the case, and Ben kills Penny, does that mean that Desmond will die (if he has no constant) and does Ferraday die too (if Desmond dies since Desmond is Ferraday's constant)???

We've all just skimmed over something that is probably relevant to ... something. Who murdered the Dr and why?

anonymous. thats what i forgot...thanks!

someone said earlier that due to the whole time thing the dr might actually be okay on the boat and they have no idea what farraday is talking about. i think otherwise. i mean who is left on the boat anyway since crazy captian and his mini militia are on the island now? maybe desmond and sayid are still on the boat and sayid was a comm officer, but he would not like about the dr be a-okay.

but it is interesting to note

I think the Oceanic 6 get off the island all together. Thus the news reports. Some additional people, like Ben and maybe Desmond, escape a different way, under the public radar.

you're right... thats why I want to know if Ben is in the casket... I think someone kills Charles Widmore (Desmond?)(Locke?) and thereby kills Ben because he no longer has a constant and when Ben dies, the whereabouts of the island are then lost and Jack can't save his half-sister Claire and the other Losties that remain...

just throwing this out there...

ive seen suzie and buttercup. wheres the rest of our lil gang?

hey susie! glad we spell our names differently.

Your post made me laugh. Sounds like a domino game. Penny dies, then Desmond dies cause she's HIS constant, then Farraday dies cause Des is HIS constant, then someone else cause he was THEIR constant.

One death could wipe out the whole show! Maybe THAT'S why the island won't let some people die. The DOMINO effect!

i dont think any of the constant people could die because then everything that is happening wouldnt happen...right? even if its after everyone on the island thing.

does that make sense?

kinda like if you go back and time and change one thing you may change everything and that might result in you never existing kinda thing...

One thing that is bugging me is that the last episode ended with Sayid giving up Michael to the captain. That is a loose end that we have no idea whats happening/happened. Is Michael put in the sickbay and he slits the doctor's throat per Ben's instructions? (could be considering the doctor would be the next in line behind Farraday to understand the principals of science behind what is happening and thereby giving whidmore information on how to get to the island)... If thats true, Ben will try to get Farraday killed soon because he knows too much. However we have seen the FF that Farraday gets off the island but he looked pretty bad (possibly dying because his constant Desmond is dead?) and he has a caretaker and can't remember anything...

It looks like people are posting under anonymous; it was getting a little rough around here for awhile and I think people are still reading but don't want to get attacked!

Widmore's line about the island once being his clarifies that he once had direct knowlege of the island as opposed to just having heard of it through other channels.This is a huge statement IMO. That Widmore may represent the consolidated interests of Hanso and Dharma puts him in contrast to the Ben and the natives. This stark dualism is being sighted all over this thread. That these two may be constants futher deepens the idea that the main conflict is between Ben and Widmore. Many have speculated that Paik, Abbadon, or other forces are involved with the struggle for the island. Widmore's line may have just clarified the main players here. I wonder if his idea that the island wil be his again is wishful thinking? Or has Widmore and already physically been to this future?
If Widmore can time-travel
How far does Widmore's relatioship to the island go in to the past & potentially how old is Charles Widmore?

someone mentioned it before and i know you guys who hear me talk about this are sick of it.

but remember that biblical connection i had going from aaron to jacob?

could this be where christian comes in as the big daddy? sorry, but it just sounds right. haha.

could christian be related to whidmore and/or ben? hence bringing everyone together on the island.

i mean we know the deal with the island, kinda, BUT we still don't know how all these people who are connected somehow got there together?!!?!?!?!

Can someone remind me who Paik is? I seem to have missed something along the way

I don't think it's possible for Jack not to know that Hurley gets off the island, since they're part of the Oceanic 6.

I think the 6 must get off together. Think of the questions that would be raised if 6 people from a plane crash start popping up all over the place...

He is Sun's dad.

i mean we know the deal with the island, kinda, BUT we still don't know how all these people who are connected somehow got there together?!!?!?!?!

Agreed. This issue is pretty up for grabs in terms of identifying it on the fate vs. free will vs. time manipulation spectrum...

Daniel, great job on this weeks post, made me laugh! I especially liked the "Carol Anne" reference. The conversation between Smokie and Benry was also pretty funny!

Can anyone double check the Dharma emblem on Benry's parka? Its Dharma but it has some sort of swirl on it. Not sure, but that just adds to the already growing list of stations.

What would I like answered? I need to know everything about Danielle, and I mean EVERYTHING! How and why she got to the island, how Benry kidnapped Alex, what she has been doing for the past 16 years and why the Others let her live all that time.

I have nothing intellectual to offer, this show usually goes way over my head, but I love it all the same. I am so addicted to this post because you guys fill in all the things I miss. Let me sit quietly for a while and maybe I'll come up with something brilliant to offer...

I have nothing intellectual to offer, this show usually goes way over my head, but I love it all the same. I am so addicted to this post because you guys fill in all the things I miss. Let me sit quietly for a while and maybe I'll come up with something brilliant...

See how challenged I am, I posted that twice on accident!

Regarding the Parka:
From lostpedia:
The logo looks very much like the well-known celtic symbol "Triskel". Triskel, surrounded by a spiral. It may have something to do with time, because both the triskel and the spiral symbolize reincarnation.
This parka also has the name "Halliwax" emblazoned on the left breast of the parka.

Charles could be our buddy Charlie who had played with time to come back for Claire and Aaron. It's pretty simple to become a gazillionnaire when you can time travel. Ben can't kill him and vice versa because the island won't let that happen.

On a side note; I smell an Emmy in Ben's future! He dominates every single scene he is in! Amazing.

I know this may seem like a dumb question, especially since I have watched every single epi of Lost, but who is lawnmower man? lol, it's been driving me nuts!

Sorry for postingso many times today everyong but Biggs got me thinking...

Halliwax is one of the names from the training videos...could this be a big deal Benry (Jance, I'm still laughing over that...GREAT ONE!) wearing his parka? and WTF do they need a parka on a tropical island...which leads me to the polar bears...which just keeps this going in a crazy circle

Lawnmower man is ther helicopter pilot.

Also, from docarzt.com:
At the 2007 San Diego Comicon, Darlton played outtakes from an orientation film for a station called "The Orchid." in the video, we see the artist known as Marvin Candle, and occassionally Mark Wickmund, now going under yet another name "Edgar Halliwax." It should be a NO BRAINER then that this jacket comes from The Orchid, and therefore the logo is the symbol for The Orchid station.

Thanks for that cathead67!

Yep, it all ties together.

Daniel, have you watched the orchid video yet? Can't remember if you did. It really does fit in with what we're seeing on the show now.

So where is the Orchid station then? I mean, the island is tropical, that jacket would never be needed on a tropical island... right? The Looking Glass was submerged underwater, where is the Orchid?

I feel like there's some kinda teleportation device on the island. This would explain the need 4 the parkas (teleporting 2 somewhere cold). This could also explain how a Dharma polar bear ended up in Tunisia. Maybe they were testing the teleporter or maybe the bear wandered in 2 it.

I feel like there's some kinda teleportation device on the island. This would explain the need 4 the parkas (teleporting 2 somewhere cold). This could also explain how a Dharma polar bear ended up in Tunisia. Maybe they were testing the teleporter or maybe the bear wandered in 2 it. I mean, if Ben is a preferred customer @ the Tunisian hotel, he must b teleporting often. Wait, Ben gave his name as Dean Moriarty @ the hotel, but wasn't recognized by the staff...perhaps multiple people use the name? u would think the hotel would b aware of who a high roller is, especially in Tunisia (what I'm saying is that a preferred customer in what appeared 2 a smaller hotel would certainly b treated as a celebrity, it would b much easier for a high roller to blend in, say, in New York, or Rome, or Paris - Tunisia wouldn't b 1st on the list). has any one looked in2 the name Dean Moriarty?

Many speculate that Ben is not a master manipulator because he's so smart, but that he has actually been through these events many times before (due to time travel) in attempts to achieve a certain outcome. Is this plausible to folks?

Dean Moriarty is a "hero" character in the book On the road by Jack Kerouac

BiggsDarklighter: like that idea. I've always been amazed at his ability to recollect facts, but it wouldn't be unusually hard if he had relived each occurences several times, trying to manipulate the outcomes... interesting thought...

if that were true, wouldn't he go back in time to prevent alex's death? that is, if he was really torn up about it.

1st sight of the dean ID was seen in The Economist.
Based on Neal Cassidy. Confidant of The beat writers and later the Merry pranksters. Allong with Richard Alpert (Ram Dass) Neal is connected to LSD & conscious expansion AKA freedom from enslavement to time and space

I love that the Lost writers are such intellectuals. This show is a geek's dream!

anj

That's why I thought that Ben was willing to sacrifice Alex. That he would just kind of set a "system restore" point and bring Alex back. But when he reacted to her death the way he did, i kinda felt otherwise...

That little weapon Ben weilds is called an Asp Batton. Nasty but effective little weapon! Loved this episode!! LOST IS BACK!! I have to watch again before commenting more. There was so much to digest.

Re: The Lost writers: Me too cathead67,

I won't explain how I know so much off the cuff regarding the history of LSD :)

Bwahahahaha! : )

Sarah, thanks but I can't take credit for that one. We've tossed it around this board in its early days. Its not one of Daniel's favorite nick names for Benjamin.

Thanks for clearing up the Dharma symbol. I checked Wiki (that site is incredible!) and its also says that its probably the Orchid.

So many cook symbols I gotta get me a Dharma sticker for my car!!

An asp batton. So it's not a Men in Black mindwipe device. Thanks!

*FYI Gailen
the helicopter driver (actor) was also the star of the horror movie called "Lawn mower man".

I asked the same question last month. Sombody explained it to me. I don't really keep up with horror movies, so i was all confused.

So are we assured now that The Economist is in deed, Charles Whidmore?

Do we believe that Penny knows nothing about her father's antics?

I meant to say "so many Dharma logos and symbols".

can you tell its friday...sheesh!

I gotta get me an asp batton. Could come in handy . . .

Good point Re: the ID of the economist as Widmore. Penny having a shadow side would be right up the alley for this show.

HELP!
Help me with the timeline here:
Sept 2004 is when the plane crashes...

Last night Benry checked into the Tunisian hotel in october of 2005.

What was the date (year) when Desmond called Penny on Christmas Eve?

When was the trial (year) for Kate when she sees Jack and we see her living/raising Aaron?

I need someone to lay it all out chronologically to me because I have gotten really fuzzy. All the jumping back and forth has me completely... LOST!

Hey suzie, that makes sense now. And I saw Lawnmower man too. Obviously I am not an overly perceptive person, which makes coming on here and reading all of the insightful posts so great! :)

okay, so i haven't read everything yet, but here are my thoughts on the whole ben can't kill theory.

Ben can't kill ON the island, because he killed Dharma and his dad. It's the island's way of revenge or something. Or maybe it's jabobs way of revenge. Off the island, jacob/the island has no control over ben, making him able to kill.

Ever since his dad, we have never seen Ben kill on the island, so this makes sense.

I also agree with the whole widmore constant idea. totally didn't catch that.

Hi Daniel - Nice recap! Great comments guys! I am still reading through & can't wait to be able to sit down & really concentrate.

hi sarah badara! :).....

I loved this episode. I'm reading a lot of similar ideas that I had.

DANIEL - I can not connect to you to ask a question through the link you supply, so I hope you're reading: What I'd like to know most right now is when is the meeting between Ben & Widmore. When is that taking place? We know he's in Tunisia and it's 2005..when is he in London with Widmore?

My poor Jack! I heart him, I don't think he's infected or getting the "sickness".

more later, I am sure!

When I get the urge to analyze the timeline of Lost, I usually start to sing the theme song from "Land of the lost" TV series from 1974, until the feeling goes away.
"Marshal, Will, and Holly..."

Did next weeks promo mention that Jack may have appendicitis?

my first thought when charles said "everything you took from me", was the story of jacob and essau. essau was first born, and would automatically have the birth right; but essau sold it to jacob, and jacob later took essau's blessing through a little deception. however, it was pre-destined that the "older one would serve the younger", and that the two brothers and their nations would struggle against one another. to me, it's all connected to the biblical stories in the old testament. i feel like charles and ben are connected to this as descendants, or through things like dharma.

that "anon" was me. hh.

Biggs...

Funny you say that because I start to pin-point references to The X-Files (i.e. Tunisia, science and faith). I'm thrilled beyond belief that the X-Files have a new movie coming out real soon. This is a good year for me, TV-wise.

PSS If you didn't want to see the promo for next week or you dont want to know what will happen DONT READ THIS!

It did..Juliet said he could die and then he asked for kate in the promo...UGH...yuck

Biggs...

Funny you say that because I start to pin-point references to The X-Files (i.e. Tunisia, science and faith). I'm thrilled beyond belief that the X-Files have a new movie coming out real soon. This is a good year for me, TV-wise.

anon - des called penny on christmas eve, 2004; kate's trial was sometime in 2006

I gave this episode an A-. The gunfight was definitely lame, but seeing Ben's reaction to Keamy shooting Alex was so surprising. When he turned around and said "He changed the rules..." I thought "Holy shit- Ben has lost his head. Everyone should evacuate ASAP!" And I think we still get answers, but we don't get complete answers. However we did get to see the fact that Ben could go over to Alex's body without worrying about Smokey coming over and killing him. I do also wonder if Ben had to "pin Smokey back up" before he went to meeting the Losties.

Ok, I haven't read everyone's comments (I stopped after 9:25am), but I think that Jacob IS the island. So is Smokey. And Christian, Dave, Libby, Charlie and Walt apparitions. They're all the island F'ing with people to manipulate them to do what it wants. Showing up in white shoes (in Jacob's cabin), telling Locke to walk it off (after he was shot), begging for help from Locke (when they were leaving the cabin), causing Jack to FREAK and run around the island, handing Michael blankets/towels (off the island in the hospital), going to visit Hurley at the mental hospital, etc. If we've learned anything this season (especially from Meet Kevin Johnson), it's that you'll die when the island is good and ready for you to die. Which makes me think that Rousseau is alive and out making rope traps at this very second to catch Keamy.

What do you think about that?

PS- Miles is still one creepy little guy.

Oops, sorry.

Janice...
Yeah, it is pretty funny. Once I started drawing comparisons between Lost an Land of the Lost, I lost my ability to look at this show in any rational way :).

My Jack/Claire theory: Clarie is currently suffering from internal bleeding, she's going to start feeling mighty bad by the time she reaches the beach. I'm sorry, you don't have your house blown to pieces only to be woozy. For story purposes she has to reach Jack, here's why:

Jack, not doing to well either.

In the first season, we learned Jack has either O- or O+ blood when he gave a transfusion to Boone.

Blood Type: O-
Can be given to: O+, A+, B+, AB+, O-, A-, B-, AB-
Can receive: O-

Blood Type: O+
Can be given to: O+, A+, B+, AB+
Can receive: O+, O-

Clare will be unsaveable. Too much trauma. JACK is saveable, but will need a blood transfusion. Being Clare is (unknowingly) his sister, she will have his blood type and with that, saves Jacks life. This explains his guilt/angst about seeing her son in the flash forwards. Oh! Maybe she'll even say as she dies, "Tell my father I'm sorry he never got to see his grandson." Probably not, but I'd like to believe Jack does discover their connection.

What do I want answered? The origin/reason for the Foot Statue still kills me!

Michelle: You darn right Danielle isn't dead! That woman is not going down without a fight, and no one (and I mean NO ONE) is going to take her daughter away from her again!

I like to think that Benry went to "say goodbye" to Alex and hopefully made Smokie bring her back to life or something. Because if Danielle is alive and finds out that Alex has been killed...

...she's gonna go Sayid on everyone!

Miles is totally creepy,

The looks on his face are SO expressive, It is very awesome to watch.

I was in the camp that the island had no innate intelligence but had powerful properties that were being exploited by men. I would be more intrigued however if the island did have an animist "personality". Do you think this animus is self-serving (i.e just the protection of island) or do you think that the island is like the concept of the gaia principle by Dr. James Lovelock?

Janice, I love the phrase "go Sayid" on someone. Totally gonna use it!

Going Sayid=Tripping someone while tied up and breking their neck between your legs :0

oops. breaking. sorry

Wikki on Gaia:

The Gaia hypothesis is an ecological hypothesis that proposes that living and nonliving parts of the earth are a complex interacting system that can be thought of as a single organism. Named after the Greek earth goddess, this hypothesis postulates that all living things have a regulatory effect on the Earth's environment that promotes life overall.

Michelle, I agree that Miles is still creepy, (and someone they should keep an eye on more.)

and I love the idea that Rousseau is alive and out there makeing rope traps for Keamy!

If she IS alive, she'll be ONE MEAN BITCH now!

I hope Danielle is out there to. We need a militant crone in the forest.

I wonder how Keamy got away from Smokey & how many of his team survived?

Two things - Does anyone else think the writers are dumbing it down a bit? As SOON as I saw the woman holding Nadia's picture I knew it was her. She was mentioned to often in the previous seasons for her not to come back. I disliked how Saied (sp) kept saying her name because I thought it was like the writers didn't think LOST fans were smart enough to figure it out....this happened a few times in the previous episode as well. Like when Ben and Juliet were having dinner, and they kept talking about the children taken from the crash (first season), etc.

Second, my theory is that whoever sees Jacob last gets him. Hurley ran into Jacob and was the last one to see him, so he is the only one that can find him now. Thoughts?

I want to know...... why the fcuking numbers are cursed and drive people crazy!?!?!?! And why did someone record them to repeat over and over again in a transmission? And who did that? Ben? Creepy Other who doesn't age?

oh, and I think Ben is in the coffin, and when they show his dead body...they will show a close up of his feet...and we'll see 4 toes on each foot. And then they'll show little Aaron taking his first steps and...4 toes on each foot!

I rewatched Rousseau and Carl getting shot and Rousseau took a shot to her lower right abdomen, appeared to be right at or right below her rib cage. She could have made it out alive- easily.

Hi all! So glad we're back. :)
Just a personal note...I'm totally BUMMED. I've been waiting for the return of Lost with such anticipation, and last night I fell asleep early due to fever and cold meds. UGHHH! #*!&&^@$%! Thank God for abctv.com and you guys!

suzie, neat idea! Wonder if Whidmore has 4 toes?

For anyone wondering about the song Ben was playing on the piano:
From Buddy TV:
The piece was Sergei Rachmaninoff’s “Prelude in C-Sharp Minor.” Its significance is that among its various titles are “The Burning of Moscow” and “The Day of Judgment.” As this song was being played just moments before Widmore’s men sieged the Barracks, this little performance was certainly a prelude to the war, and since Ben was forced to make the ultimate decision and the ultimate sacrifice, it was his day of judgment.

Pretty cool

Okay, I haven't had time to read all the comments, so forgive me if this was already speculated about! When Claire wasn't killed in the explosion (and, I mean, that was crazy, the place was an inferno) and then decided to go back to the beach, I began to wonder... With Jack being sick out of his mind, does he shoot Claire out of confusion/delusion as the group arrives? I'm asking this because of Jack's reluctance to see Aaron back at home, possibly due to feeling guilty about killing his mama?

I already deleted my recording of last night's epi, so I can't go back and check this out, but it's bothering me....

While the boys are playing Risk, Ben is tickling the ivories - nicely dressed. Then all the chaos happens, RIP Alex, Ben disappears in to the bat cave. When he comes out - he's all dirty. I don't remember him being dirty before he went in.

Is it just me or did that really happen?

that really happened

I kinda like that explanation Mary- totally plausible!

Gailen...Lawnmower Man is actually the name of a movie from the early 90's starring Jeff Fahey, the actor who plays Lapidus, the helicopter pilot. You to be quick with Daniel because he is a television/movie-o-phile, hence his Carol Anne reference which comes directly from Poltergeist wherein actress Heather O'Rourke states,"They're here" when the ghosts arrive!! Good stuff! And as I am a television/movie nerd, I totally appreciate his references!!

Thanks, Sarah, I'm not crazy then - so, did Ben have to rassle with Smokey to get him to take out the bad guys? Wonder what was in the bat cave other than guano to get him looking like a chimney sweep?

I don't know if this was said before but I think the whole show is some kind of real life game of Risk between Ben and Charles. Commenting on breaking the rules and how all the people have interacted in their pasts, even if they don't know it (Claire/Jack, Jack/Desmond etc etc). Reference to Australia being key to the game and the plane leaves from Australia. it seems that the whole "game" is Ben and Charles manipulating people to their own end..winning the game (island) any thoughts??

hey gailen, the helicopter pilot is played by jeff fahey, who played the lawnmower man, in the film of the same name...

man ya'll are freakin me out with the carol anne thing. i watched that movie when i wasnt supposed to when i was little girl and i scared the livin daylights outta me...

so it's good to see everyone coming back and a few new people? i know im not one of hte original posters but i think we're all a happy LOST family.

just a question: what will happen to juliet and richard?

i cant wait until we find out who is in the coffin! i agree with a lot of people that it is ben, but i dont know how he died. i just think it is ben because he's the only one who can get jack back to the island (at least the only one we/jack know)

i just realized how morbid i must sound if i was excited to find out who is in a coffin...

I thought last nights episode was really good. I do agree with a few of you that the people getting shot was hokey..aimed marksman take out 3 people in 4 seconds and sawyer is safe behind a pickett fence..lol

OK, I have a question about constants. I for some reason that you just needed the constant when you were having an episode of traveling and that once you found your constant you stopped the traveling between consciousnesses at the different times.

I don't think that, once you find and establish your constant that you continue to need it. Therefore I don't think that if your constant dies, you die. Your constant doesn't HAVE to be a person. Desmond just asked if it could be a person.

Faraday probably wrote about Des because, as time went on and he learned about the island, he knew that he would run into Desmond in the future.

does anyone else still find the connection between desmond and widmore to be very interesting? i mean, des ends up on the island because of this race- hes also the one that disabled (turned the key and made the hatch blow up) the whole electromagnetic/blowup thing so when this happened the island actually blipped on the screen of dudes somewhere off in polar somewhere.

somehow desmond is way more important than anyone thinks he is. he is after all the only one on the island that has direct connections to widmore/penny. hes not good or bad- hes just like, there. he could see the future with charlie. does that play in somehow? he got faraday there...

Ben is in the coffin, Sayid killed him (yeeeaaa!!!), because Sayid found out Ben was the one who had Nadia killed. Hope he snaps his neck with his feet. (4 toes or 5)

or not

Yea, I agree with whoever said it: I never really thought you would die just because your constant died. Couldn't you just pick another constant?

thanks sarah...i didnt know i was part of the gang...i feel special now! LOL

just a couple of little things...did anyone else think that the dr.'s body was mikail finally washing up to shore?? my first thought was "so he can die!" my bad!

and i know we should be used to this by now but when faraday says that time is a relative thing and noboday said a thing i wanted to kick something!

as for the shoot out scene, i really did think that was silly that sawyer was running around and never got shot but everyone else was dropping like flies. but someone mentioned that maybe the island wouldnt let him die...there's gotta be a reason..maybe to make sure that claire & aaron make it to the beach?? desmond did say that he saw claire & aaron get into a helicopter...

another thing...if ben travels off island to tunisia often enough that the receptionist knows to be afraid of him, then wouldnt he know the time difference on/off the island?? unless it isnt constant...like jacob's cabin.

sayid=dumber than i thought...to believe ben without question...he must really be grieving to have bought ben's line.

not to piss anyone off but i really dont think ben can't kill whidmore because whidmore is ben's constant...i've believed from the beginning that you can have more than one constant. i think this is another case of the island not letting it happen. that or whidmore knows/has something that ben needs & thats why ben wont kill him.

so there are my 2 cents...looks like i wrote a novel & i'm sure i'll think of more as i re-watch...i was thinking last night that it'd be a good idea to watch with a pen & paper cuz so much happens its hard to remember everything!!!

suzie= i agree. it seems everyone is making way too big of a deal about this constant issue. i do think ben somehow can jump on and off the island (hense the desert scene) however, i dont think he can time travel.

Once you're no longer travelling through time you don't need a constant, right? So are we assuming that during the FF with Ben that he is still able to get to and from the island (time warp and all)?

Perhaps a constant is only needed in the event of a "consciousness only" time travel brought about by "the sickness". Maybe the constant issue does not apply to the physical teleportation brought about by the orchid station, the box, the stargate, the "wayback machine", or whatever it is that makes Ben able to jump time.

leah - i think i agree with what you said. i have a hard time accepting the idea of 'time travel', aside from the subconscious flashes we've seen with desmond and minkowski. and we know what happened to minkowski, and what would have happened to desmond had he not contacted penny. i'm not saying it's 100% not possible, but i can't seem to accept it as the answer right now. it raises way too many questions and introduces way too many problems to be solved.
abacusamy - i had the same question. in that first scene in the desert, did ben come from the island, or from somewhere else? and i guess on some level, from WHEN is still up for grabs, as well.

Since Jack is experiencing something that looks similar to Desmond and Minkowski when they were moving through time... what is triggering it to happen NOW? What triggered Desmond? Minkowski? Is it the water issue? ??? I can't remember if we've narrowed it down to how/why it initally happens. We only know that to stabilize it you must have a constant in both realms...

I didn't think that Jack was suffering from the same sickness as Desmond and Minkowski- I just thought that he was legitimately sick. (previews suggested appendicitis, though that might be a fake teaser)

but the preview for next week said jack has appendicitis. did anyone else catch that? am i wrong?

no. i caught it.

didnt danielle say that it took a while for her crew to come down with the sickness...maybe it happened so fast for des because he was moving quickly in the helicopter but for everyone on the island it takes longer cuz the island moves slow??

ah yes, true... well if your appendic ruptures, its certain death, isn't it? So I like what someone else says that he's going to need a blood transfusion, Juliet will perform an appendectomy? Claire will be the only one able to give him blood, right? Would stand to reason. She will probably bleed out and die and Jack will be burdened with guilt for leaving Aaron without a mother to save his life... Hmph.

yeah, juliet says that his appendix might rupture, which is really bad (!). but we know jack makes it since we've seen his FF and he's in other FFs. i also agreed with whoever said claire has to have more serious injuries from that explosion. i'm thinking a cranial hematoba (too much ER and House?), or internal bleeding. so i can see the blood transfusion or something like that happening.

The Wayback Machine!!! What a blast from the past! I had forgotten that term.

*Rocky and Bullwinkle show - Mr. Peabody and his assistant Sherm. RIGHT?

Time-travel TV tangent:
Anybody remember VOYAGERS with John Eric Hexum?
Phineas Bogg was one of a society of time travelers called Voyagers who, with the help of a young boy named Jeffrey Jones (played by Meeno Peluce) used a hand-held device called an Omni (which looked much like a large pocket watch) to travel in time and ensured that history unfolded as we know it.

Hmmm

That was me, I said it! When I saw that Clare was going to the beach I knew it right away, cough up the O- lady.

Time-travel TV tangent:
Anybody remember VOYAGERS with John Eric Hexum?
Phineas Bogg was one of a society of time travelers called Voyagers who, with the help of a young boy named Jeffrey Jones used a hand-held device called an Omni to travel in time and ensured that history unfolded as we know it.

Hmmm

sorry for the doublespeak

suzie:
This blog only recruits the best and the brightest! :)

Ok so I think the Widmore/island connection goes all the way back to the capt. of the black pearl, including involvement in Dharma.
I think the RISK comment about Australia was just an Easter egg though I will say that Australia has to be another vortex spot (re:Bernard and Rose's FB)
I don't think Ben controls smokey though he obviously knows how to summon it. Why else would they need the fence?
I like Jessie's theory on Jack and Claire and the blood types. One question about Claire though is this: we know she doesnt get off the island but Desmond told Charlie he sees her get on the helicopter, WTF?
I also hope Jack and Claire find out they are siblings

Jessie: I miss my LOST partner!!!

A solid B rating?!? Cmon! That episode was action packed and awesome. Ok, I'll settle down and write a real post now :)

Just finished catching up w/everyone! I wish I had one of those time travel things-we are in a blizzard warning and it is April 25th-something is wrong here!!!! If Michael Emerson does'nt win an Emmy for this role!!!!! He can accomplish more w/a facial tick then most actors can in an entire show! His one liners last night were awesome-Daniel a little disapointed w/you for not mentioning more of those. The one where Sayid killed the guy (That should do it!)I laughed so hard. My question is: could Widmore be Ben's mentor? they seem to have been playing this "game" for quite some time-and now "he"-Widmore, changed the rules! 2nd question to you bloggers-what did Jack want w/Bernard when he pulled him to the side and said "you got a second?" and Bernard looked real upset?? I found that to stand out, don't know why? Anyone? PS: Is'nt it fun to be back!!!!

Tootsie...i saw that too.

Maybe they were just getting together and Jack was asking Bernard to be around when Farraday did the Morse code thing?

He is a dentist, but I don't know...and where is Rose?? I like her, shes always so optimistic.

Just to clarify my comment on Widmore. I don't think he was the actual captain but related. Figure I had to say that what with all the time travel and everything.

What I really want to happen is Ben show up in 1955 at Doc Brown's house and help him develop the flux-capacitor.

sarah b: I thought of you and that peta guy when the first scene had Vincent in it!LOL @ least we know the smoke monster did'nt eat him!

Hey everyone!! Yes, it is great to be back, Tootsie...
First of all, the question I would like answered after last night's episode is--like many have said-- "What reltionship do/did Widmore and Ben have?" It really seemed like they had, at one point, been friends or lovers. Of course, with how straight Ben is ("You're mine, Juliet!")...I'm starting to lean towards them being related, as in family. (But...how?) I love the idea that Widmore is Ben's Constant. Maybe they don't always need one, but he might need one sometime. By the way, Daniel, I think you missed naming that scene as one of the best in Lost history. Charles Widmore and Henry Gale finally meet? Euphoria in a box. (In fact, that's what I would've wished for if I had Ben's box...) Also, I totally had an 'OMG' moment when Alex died. I doubt she's coming back--once you're dead, you're dead.
I thought the Risk scene was kinda stupid, and just a way for them to have that "We're all gonna die" teaser...cheaters!
I like seeing Sawyer taking care of Claire. I don't know why, though.
To "Lauren Loves Lost"--I'm not sure if the writers are dumbing it down or if they're just referencing everything because they, too, forgot some points during the strike! But I did notice it.
Great posts, everyone. And Darlton--answers, please?

So when Ben said "he changed the rules" after they shot Alex and again to Penny's Dad (exposing him as the "he" in "he changed the rules") - it made me think.....what if the entire thing - the smoke monster, the darma initiative, the entire island history, was all just a game. What if a select few (Ben and Penny's Dad being probably the "leaders") were just playing some real life board game with people's lives. I know, very far fetched. But the Lost writers have done odder things.
Oh and I loved the scene when Locke aaked Ben where he was going and he turned and said "to say good bye to my daughter" - the look on his face was just painful. It was the only time since they introduced Ben that I knew for certain he was sincere. Well done!

Lex,
Or help Sarah Conner destroy that pesky terminator hand forever!

Hey ok wait, that Clare/Helicopter thing Lex pointed out ticks me off. Charlie couldn't live because she had to get on the helicopter, but she's not one of the Oceanic 6. I'd say she doesn't get on it and stays on the Island, but Des has already predicted, reliably, otherwise. It better be obvious as to how Charlie would've screwed things up for her if he'd lived when the time comes.

Ok, so I tweak my blood transfusion theory to include they are both on stretchers, hardly alive, she's fading, and falls out the side of the helicopter! :D ok, ok, she reaches the boat and croaks there.

Lex, Biggs,

Or help Mulder find the truth!

sarah badara you are just jealous of kate. get over it.

anon - kate is a fictional character. how could someone be jealous of her? (and i'm team kate)

I think the mercenary team didn't kill Sawyer on purpose so he would try and give Ben up to them or convince Ben to surrender. Ben even alluded to this by something he said to Sawyer in the house (can't remember the quote exactly).

Ha! You don't think someone can be jealous of a fictional character? I'm jealous of Jason Bourne ;)

Also, I'm a dude, but I'll be pissed if Sawyer dies! Besides, they can't kill everyone... right??

Actually, I am a little jelous of Kate. Wish I was in a bear cage with Sawyer!

I have thought of 2 things:

*Seemed to me that Hurley wasn't real surprized that Locke and Ben demanded that he go with them. He didn't even ask why.

*for as important as I keep thinking Aaron is to the island/story, Ben and Locke neither one even notice him. They could care less if he goes to the beach or anything. And the freighter guys don't either. Not even Miles. (who is supposedly a ghost whisperer)

Am I missing something?

wow, im jealous of kate? i wish i was a criminal that killed people and robbed them and lied to them??

anywhos...ive never liked kate from the beginning soo...
why am i defending myself to a person who goes by anon?

moving on...
im still interested on how she ends up with aaron? i still cant find a way to put it together? and regarding the helicopter thing, des never said if claire was alive when she was getting on the helicopter...did he???

then again why am i defending myself to a complete stranger? whatevs...

ignore button is back

Every other Desmond vision was shown. The one with Claire getting on the helicopter...Desmond just talked about it. You could be on to something sarah.

Was Claire alive? Or did Des even really see that vision? Maybe he made it up.

Ok, so Desmond tells Charlie that he sees Claire & Aaron get on a helicopter. Desmond NEVER states HOW they get on it, or in what condition they're in when they board. He could have forseen a dead Clair being placed on the helicopter, but decided 2 omit that b/c would Charlie have readily sacrificed himself if he knew Clair wouldn't survive? Prolly not, so Desmond left that part out, leaving Charlie 2 think that his sacrifice would lead to Clair's and Aaron's salvation.

And what's the deal w/the 4 toed statue Sayid found a while back? You would think they would've mentioned something about it.

About the smoke monster, I believe I remember Juliet saying something 2 the effect that it's the island's security system. Could Alex's shut down of the fence "alerted" or "tripped" the security system?

Was Alex ever close 2 the Temple? did the Freighter Commandos find the Temple? y aren't the Others concerned w/defending Ben or the island?

One more thing. Ben came to the island a young boy...who lived in his house b4 him? y r there so many secret passages? y was there a prison like cell in the basement? wha was in charge b4 Ben?

No no, you're jealous of Kate because she can get both types of men. Nothin wrong with it really, but I tire of your negative Kate comments.

I meant 2 say Who was in charge b4 Ben?

Maybe Widmore is Ben's brother from another mother?

About the 4 toed statue. I read an interview with the writers, etc that abc.com wanted to either get rid of or change the 4 toes because...it was too weird.

Yes, their reason was because a statue with 4 toes is too weird, apparently even for LOST.

I'll look for the link.

Hey suzie...I wasn't sure about Des's visions, if we saw them all or not. Thanks for that. And Kruxoli...that's what I'm thinking...is she alive or dead?

Too weird for Lost, never! lol

Yeah Sara Badera, I feel like Desmond is like the Oracle @ Delphi - accurate but cryptic. Kinda like how he was w/Charlie @ first - NOT telling Charlie that is was actually Charlie, not Clair, who was dying in his visions.

did anyone else notice the huge mural on the wall of ben's mother (emily, is it?) in his house? i think i saw it after ben came back from his fortress.

Am I the only one who notices Ben can time travel. With everyone else (Sayid, Jack, Kate, Hurley, etc.) its flash forwards however with Ben its definite time travel. For instance, Ben randomly landing in the middle of the Sahara and then puking is one thing I noticed. Why puke? Could it have been the time travel?? And what about the Polar Bear bones in the desert, could it be b/c they were testing time travel with bigger animals first?? Also remember the Farraday/Desmond deal where Desmond and Farraday both experienced the similar time travel experiences. Plus Farraday said "When? When is a relative question". Plus remember the moris code message where they said "The doctor is fine" Well maybe he was fine but his dead body time traveled. Could time travel explain why Ben knows about everyone and everything? And when he went into his little room to summon the smoke monster could he also have been time traveling into the future to get his point across to Whitmore about killing his daughter? Ok ive rambled long enough and I could be totally off base, but seriously please please please please answer this question SOMEBODY! ANYBODY! b/c I feel like im the only LOST fan on earth who thinks that Ben is capable of time travel.

Thanks

Yea, I think the writers wanted it to be clear that Ben time travels when he asked the hotel clerk in Tikrit (or where ever it was) what day is it? What YEAR?

he doesn't ask what year - he asks if it's 2005. my husband and i disagree on this. he's a believer, i'm just not convinced yet. i guess i don't think these things came up to prove that he's time traveling; to me, they are there to pose more questions. how did he get there? why ask if it's 2005? why act surprised when he sees sayid on the tv? was that really coincidence? if traveled forward to see charles, why did he end up in the sahara first? did he really have a message for widmore, or did he know sayid was following him and would kill the guy then?
see, to me, this FF adds more questions, instead of proving that ben traveled in time. i could be wrong, and i see why people are drawing the conclusion, i just have to many questions about it.

Could not bring up LD ALL DAY at work! Why do they torment me like this?

First thing, I think the whole Alex thing is just another manipulation by Ben. I agree with the poster who said Ben is too hard-wired not to care, and she wasn't even related to him.

Love the theory that Widmore is Ben's constant.

Don't forget that Widmore makes everything Dharma-related, including all the food and the home pregnancy kit and the building that got blown up in front of Des in "Flashes Before Your Eyes." His company even made the hot air balloon Henry Gale was in.

I have started thinking that Hurley is not what we think he is. And I am now convinced that Kate has been in cahoots with Ben since the beginning. Remember the breakfast on the beach? I have always thought it is he she is shacking up with back in LA.

I thought it was an A episode. I loved it! I'll definitely be watching again this weekend.

Oh and Daniel, you are totally firing on all cylinders today! "Color me excited." You are so funny!

well, if he doesn't time travel, he must have a private jet to go to all these places so fast.

Maybe Ben asked if it was 2005 b/c there r issues involved in the time travel/teleportation from the island to elsewhere. Like Desmond on the freighter -- he thought it was the same year as when he was in the Scottish Army. Dunno, maybe I'm wrong, but I don't think Ben was asking if it was 2005, but confirming, or making sure, it was 2005 & that his time travel/teleportation worked successfully.

Jo - I am so happy you said that. The breakfast thing has always been an issue for me. Apparently when I talk negative about Kate it bothers people. ANYWHOS...We have seen Kate in the past...she is a liar and a manipulator, who is to say she isn't doing the same to the Losties?? I mean come on, Ben got Sayid after he said he would never torture again and he is the strongest willed person in my opinion.

Also, my boyfriend noticed this about the smoke: if Ben "controls" the black smoke, why did it take Mr. Eko, the pilot and leave Locke. I can't remember what episode, but didn't Jack get chased by it, but left alone too? And the smoke was after Walt, right?

Wait, now that I think about it...Ben had the smoke take the pilot because he knew about the fake plane (either set up by him or Whidmore - meaning they are in contact with one another, regardless of being enemies or friends).

I'm rambling now, sorry. Have a good night everyone, I'm going to work on some of my Bible theories...(Aaron/Jacon & Cain/Abel connections - any others?)

well, if we're assuming he traveled within this episode, then yes. that's the biggest issue i have - my husband believes that the time travel occurred within this episode, and that while locke and sawyer were fighting off people with guns, ben took a detour to the sahara, then iraq, then london. i just don't think i believe that.

sarah, was anybody in the bible snatched from their mother and raised by an evil foster mother? I am not too bible knowlegable.

sb - for me, jacob/essau is the biggest one. i know there is no essau, but he was jacob's twin. he was the first born, but jacob got his birthright and his blessing - jacob "took" them. somehow, i feel like this relationship and story is important. maybe not the exact names/characters/relations, but when widmore told ben who knew everything he took from him, it made me think of this. and widmore spoke to ben like he was inferior, using the term "boy". i feel like widmore is connected to jacob in some way, and that he expected to take over, but ben got everything instead, plus he killed all the dharma folks. i haven't worked it all out, but i'm with you - i feel like these biblical connections are very important, they aren't just simple allusions made in passing.

i mean, there is no essau on lost, but he was jacob's older twin in the bible.

maybe Ben is Widmore's ugly bug-eyed twin!

Ben could have time traveled in-episode...we have no idea what the time differetial is...what I'm saying is that Ben COULD have THEORETICALLY "left" the island when he entered the Cave of Solitude & then the Batcave. Sawyer, Locke, Hurley, Clair & Aaron MIGHT have PERCEIVED Ben to only be gone for a relatively short period of time, but off the island he may have had enough time to do all he had to do. Remember there is a time difference from the freighter to the island & vice versa, so we have a precedent here.

Lostpedia said that there was steam coming from Ben, and the fact that he had a parka on would suggest he just came from a cold climate.It also said that the two horsemen said he "fell from the sky". I'm not one to like this whole "time travel" thing either,(what we've seen in the past has been "mental time travel"-not physical)-so I'm not sure how to take this episode, I just hope the writers end it with a believable concept!

i understand what you're saying, and i'm not saying that it's not possible. i'm just not convinced yet. i think there's still a lot to the theory that needs to be explained, and i'm worried that physical time travel introduces a lot of issues that will be difficult to solve in the remaining seasons.

(I am slowly making my way through the comments.)

Okay, so many people are saying it's Ben in the coffin that I have to say, the day Ben dies is the day I stop watching the show! Really! I think...

Anyway, I hear that we will find out who is in the coffin by the end of this season and I'm hoping it's Michael. I used to think no way they would be so obvious as to have a black character be in a coffin in a funeral home in a black neighborhood, but the show has been a bit predictable about some things lately, so I am betting on Michael. Or maybe "taller" Walt.

Anyway that's my question, I am dying to know who's in the coffin and I think it will open up AND answer a million questions.

wow, I'm gone for 1/2 a day & look how much stuff you guys have posted for me to read! :) thanks!!

hey everyone!! hey Goldie Tootsie1, hh, suzie,
sup sarah b!
CAM??

glad you guys are back!
I will finish reading then post so that I'm not being redundant.
Great stuff guys!

This is the smartest LOST blog out there. All of you have excellent ideas and feedback. I'm not sure what to add!

I loved this episode. I wish there were a few more answers to all of the questions.

My questions: Taller ghost Walt and who is in the coffin? Oldies but goodies!

I don't think it would be "taller Walt" in the casket, because someone would come to HIS funeral. Grandma, at least. And Hurley or some of them.

Ben has no family now, or friends.

Michael has few or no friends. But surely Walt and Grandma would come to his funeral.

whoever died, they ain't too popular.

Okay, so if Penny is Desmond's contstant, and Ben kills Penny, what happens to Des? And if Des is Faraday's constant, what happens to Faraday? So many questions, so little real answers. This episode was awsome! And I agree with a previous poster--Ben is gangster! So is Sayid. Which is why Ben recruits him to be his assassin. (Okay, I don't really know if that's why, but as the name says--I heart Sayid! :) )

I think everyone is back but Larry-where did he-she go???? (he is still one of my main characters in my "lost bloggers show" ha-ha, not to mention Coolio. and where or where is our "Lost in Texas" I know you are still w/us girlfriend-just under anon!!! I love you guys, and yes!!! I am having a few drinks again-it is a blizzard here!!!!

Hey Kat, was that you on this week's Lost video podcast????
:)

Biggs Darklighter, I remember Voyagers. Do you remember Sliders? These are two of my favs. (Along with The Prisoner, and Star Trek, which makes me a prime candidate for loving Lost!)

hey Jo - No. I only post here.

kat seems to be a common nickname if you're a Kathrin (which I am)
:)

Tootsie1,
where are you at to have a BLIZZARD?
or were you just kidding?

Look on the radar-mid/west Minnesota-I can't see my neighbors house-for real!!!

suzie - no kidding! it's supposed to be 95 here in phoenix tomorrow. i wanna know where this blizzard is...

Let's not forget that Bachelor #2 was also into pheasant hunting (as well as being a dentist).

Maybe he learned morse code during his hunting days...I don't know in case he was stranded in the mountains & only his flashlight worked or something.

(for those who were scrolling down during this phase, #2 was Bernard) :)

We don't all live down south, wish I did right now!

i've read this blog for a long time but this is my first time posting. at its not even about lost all.
when people bicker on here and fight about stupid comments that have been made, it really takes away from the purpose of this wall.
we're here to be excited about lost and discuss our theories. not to act like high schoolers fighting over snide comments.
please take your fights elsewhere so the rest of us can enjoy lost.

Okay, I have a question. IF Ben and Widmore had some kind of gentleman's agreement not to kill each other's kids, then why say Alex is not his daughter? Wouldn't that make her more disposable? Why wouldn't he say, "I believe you know there are rules in operation here."?

Since Ben doesn't make mistakes, I can't decide if this was a writer's mistake or if Ben meant for his kid to die. I do think he sent Alex and the other two out to die.

http://www.cafepress.com/heartwants/4833049

I haven't posted before and don't know if someone else mentioned this but...
I was kind of excited when Ben kicked those dudes' asses in the desert then thought WTF?!?! Isn't this the same guy who got beat up by EVERYONE on flight 815? Was he just letting them do that to ultimately get what he wanted? Just seems odd.

heartwants - that's an interesting point. i kind of thought that MAYBE the "rule" had something to do with killing completely innocent people who had nothing to do with anything. but ben keeps saying how widmore is a bad man who kills innocent people. so if ben really believes that, shouldn't he expect that to happen? i realize he was trying to say that she meant nothing (imagine knowing that was the last thing your 'step'-daughter heard you say), but if she meant nothing, then she was disposable, and if she was his daughter, she was a bargaining chip. either way, she dies. i'm very intrigued by these "rules". i think they have a much greater meaning than some sort of gentleman's agreement.

oh, i originally thought that ben had definitely set alex, rousseau and karl up, but in this episode he seemed genuinely surprised that they had alex. he said something like, any of my people are prepared to die for me. plus, he told sawyer that he sent them away and they were safe. so i tend to think that he really did mean for at least alex to make it to the temple.

That whole time Ben could have kicked Sayid's butt during his "interrogation" (when he was "Henry Gale") He should have just defended himself at some point so they would know not to mess with him. Rousseau even beat his ass! :) hahahahaha!

But, I'm with Daniel on this - I don't like that he's got a black belt either!

kat: I totally disagree w/you and Daniel about Ben being able to defend himself-I loved it!!!Now we know that he "let them beat him up" ,because he was exactly where he wanted to be!! And remember, Juliet, she is just a fertily doctor, yet she kicked Jacks ass, how many normal people can do that? I think that they were all trained on the island just for this reason, to defend themselves and the island! Ben does nothing without a reason!!!! He rules!

maybe Ben meant JACOB changed the rules. You know, the rules that say you can't die until the island LETS you die. (or however it was worded)

maybe he thought the gun would jam or something, cause Alex was unkillable.

**HEY Tootsie1, build a snowman for us!
I am in Indiana where my cherry trees have blossoms. Seriously, take care of yourself!

Hey guys...after last nights episode, it reminded me of a Lost website that I have been to several times (LOSTisagame.com) I saw that many of you thought that maybe this show was based on a game...haha and this website is so in depth I thought some people might like to check it out? Anyway, I loved the episode.

suzie - i like the idea of ben meaning jacob when he says "he changed the rules"; but at the end when he goes to see widmore, doesn't he tell him, "YOU'll regret changing the rules"?

You know what my first thought was when the artist formerly known as Henry Gale went into his hole in the wall? I thought of "The man from Tallahasse" when he told Locke that he should imagine a box. And that whatever he wanted would appear in that box. I wondered what he was going to pull out of the box. But maybe this is the first time he pulled the smoke monster out of the box?? Also...does this mean that Julia knows about the smoke monster? She told one of the losties (Jack?) that they didn't know what it was, only that it doesn't like the fence.

My #1 question? What/who is Jacob?

My other #1 question? What is the smoke monster?????

Whats in the batcave is....His portal to travel off the island! He leaves the island and re-enters there in private so noone else knows what his capabilities. He went in the room and came back dirty. I think he left the island at that moment, and then returned a few minutes (island time). Time moves super slow on the island, so when he zipped out of the batcave to who knows where, he was probably there for a few hours.

So Widmore had control over the island when the Dharma group was working on it, maybe even before Dharma. Then, when the Hostiles killed the Dharma group, Ben took control of the island and Widmore lost his power. How does Jacob fit in? Is he really friend or foe of Ben's? Or is he closer to Widmore? I'm thinking that Jacob was with the Hostiles and working with them, and then something went wrong between him and Ben. It seems like Jacob doesn't trust Ben anymore and he is reaching out to Locke and Hurley. Also, it just seemed like Ben was trying to contain Jacob with the whole ring of ash. I think Jacob is purposefully avoiding Ben. But why?

I want to know what all the "rules" are that Ben referred to. Rules for what? The Risk game is obvious forshadowing to this power struggle that is going on between Ben and Widmore. Shock and Awe, was one another maneuver. Did anyone think of Battleship when the phone rang with the warning? Also did you notice the phone had no way to dial out?

That last post by Anonymous was me.

About Ben being a black belt, I like the way he is sort of this Kaiser Sose character (from usual Suspects) who gets his way and manipulates by being completely underestimated. And whenever he gets captured he always ends up "where he wants to be."

I remember a few weeks/shows back that someone said the Others are freakishly strong, using Ethan as the example. Some skinny dude hung Charlie and still managed to drag Claire off? I know that Charlie is(was?) a little dude, but come on...

Which is why I think Ben knows and can do all sorts of crazy self defense. I'll admit it, dude can rock an asp. I think he chooses when to physically fight back. As we have seen is much stronger in a mental fashion using powers of persuasion, for lack of better words.

Yeah...where is CAM?

Hooray! So glad this show is back!

I hope the Temple has a large four-toed statue nearby!

I agree Sarah B. Ben learned a lot by being held "hostage" by Jack and Locke down in the hatch. I think that every time he has been captured he was exactly where he wanted to be. Juliette has said more than once that Ben likes to find out a persons weakness and then manipulate them. He is a tricky little guy.

Ben is a little bit of a superhero with his bat cave, the teleporting and all his fighting capabilities, but I was really left with an icky feeling at the end of the show. I can't explain exactly why, but Ben just seemed kind of pathetic in Widmores bedroom. Maybe it was the slinking around like a rat, comment.

Hello All,
Janice:
The truth is out there...At a bearing of 325 degrees.

I_heart_Sayid:
Lost proves all those years spent watching HIGHLANDER did not go to waste :)

Question:

Regarding the hierogrlyphic, aztec, and christian symbolism on the cave door. Do folks think this is the remnant of an ancient civilization on the island, pre-literate bathroom grafitti, or DHARMA getting their "new age" interior design on?

Here is a link to a close-up of the bat cave door.

http://gallery.lost-media.com/displayimage-1402-478.html

It definately does not look like a thypical Dharma station entrance.

Ben/Whidmore scene re teresalynn's comment:

I hear ya on the icky thing, but I looked at that scene this way: I LOVVVVED that there is finally someone who can "talk the talk" with Ben. It's like, yes! There's someone out there who's able to truly lock horns with Ben. DING! Round 2 please!

Disclaimer: Ben will ultimately win, viva la Ben

About Bernard & morse code. I know I had forgotten this until I watched again last night.
Bernard tries to build a sign on the beach so that the satellites or passing planes could spot them. The sign was S O S.
He's always had it in him :)

Someone posted above regarding Ben's travels. The question was "Why puke?" That's very interesting. Why puke?
Desmond & Minkowski had a bloody nose when they 'traveled'.
But with Ben it was much more of a physical--he was actually going through it--situation. He came back looking like he had been through hell. All in what 5 minutes?

The passports that Ben has. I don't think he ever uses these for the traditional sense of travel. In other words I don't think he's ever presented a passport in an airplane to board a flight. I think these passports are just to have something 'legit' to show at his destination once he falls out of the sky.--
With Desmond & Minkowski they were still; calmly entering another time in their minds.
Ben fell out of the sky, looking like he'd just been in Alaska, then he pukes!--his travels are apparently more labor intensive!
My other 'need to know' would be:
How is Ben traveling & when is Ben traveling?

I am almost through with season 2. I started watching from the beginning during the hiatus. I'm like a junkie now. Once my child is in 'magical island dreamland', I'm right back with my castaways!

this is where I am now w/ season2:
Ben has seeped out of "Henry Gale" & Michael just killed Ana-LuLu (that was for Team Sawyer) & Libby! "Three Minutes" is next.
Just when you think it can't get any better, it does! :)

oh & ...monkeyface, where are you :)

oh 1 more thing: I just remembered how much I disliked Ana-Lucia (as well as Shannon as I mentioned before). Personally I'd rather put up with Kate & Juliet any day over Shannon & Ana-Lucia. They're so different & yet so equally annoying for me.
and generally I like everyone!

Also had forgotten, but just for a second, that Sawyer & Ana-Lucia totally hooked up y'all! :)

A kid, albeit inquisitive, grows up on an island. At an age of older adolescence, he gasses a village and murders his father...

The island does not seem to be able to provide the education for a person to learn several languages (I recognized 3 in this last episode when he spoke to the Arabs in the desert and one might assume he speaks German hanging out in Berlin), martial arts, obtain passports bearing different names from different countries... understand explosives (where he had Godwin working), and ALL of the other amazing things that Ben Linus brings to the show. Not to mention the $$ required to survive, lure Juliet to the island, not bat an eye at Miles request for $3.2 million, own a submarine, pay for the intelligence Mikhail obtained on each of the Losties...

More than anything else nowadays, I want to know everything about Benjamin Linus. And I want to know how he came to raise Alex. Oh and one more thing I want to know, that Rousseau is really dead, (because I don't think she is)...

Dean Moriarty's big quest in "On the Road" was the search for his father. Could Widmore be Ben's father?

you know, i think we always just took for granted that "Roger" was ben's father. but i guess that doesn't make it true. i don't know about it being widmore, but i think it's possibly that roger wasn't the biological dad. that would give him another reason to hate ben after the mom died (giving birth to another man's baby!).

Oh so many great posts, you guys are so awesome. I liked this epi the board game, where Hurley talks about Australia I thought was important, then I thought of Cain and Abel, but switched to Could this be just a big board game between Whidmore and Ben?? That thought was a let down for me kinda like St Elsewhere with the snowball. Oh well
Ben must have known Whidmore from the island. I don't know if they are related but they have some kind of relationship. I was thinking Ben was a good guy..just for a second mind you until he had that stupid ass grin when he walked away from Sayid.. He is such a con man. I was glad to see my hunk of love Sawyer and glad he didn't get killed. It is sunny and beautiful out west. Just rambling now good to see everyone and new people to

I read an interview w/ Lindelof & Cuse...here's a cool little excerpt:

TV Guide: The Internet has played a role in the buzz surrounding both of your shows.
Cuse: I don't think Lost could've existed in the pre-Internet era. Now you have the ability to both catch up with the show and also discuss and explain it. The camaraderie of the fans that come together over the Internet to discuss Lost is a huge factor in its success.
Lindelof: Lost has always been a cult show in its DNA. It started out as being the band that everybody was listening to and is sort of migrating down to the people who are just fans of punk rock.

Ben, a good guy?!?
Remember when they ran in that house and piled all of the furniture in front of the door? Sawyer ran up carrying Claire and Ben didn't want to let them in! Real nice guy!

And I asked this before, but, if Aaron is important to the island/story, why don't Ben or Locke pay any attention to him at all? They don't protect him or care if he goes to the beach or anything. Why?

suzie - I don't think anyone really knows the extent of it. But Ben knows everything right?...so he should know something is up w/ Aaron.

sounds to me from the interview with the writers that they are reading our blog!

I said I thought Ben was a good guy for just a second. no longer than that lol

Suzie and Kat - Perhaps Ben already knows that Aaron is not in peril at this point and his survival is already assured. So maybe Ben is instead more intent on other pressing events and things to protect, conquer and battle over. Maybe the interest in Aaron comes later.

So many of you have touched on really good ideas and big picture theories. Here is a small one I throw out there. An understatement to say that it sure is interesting how Ben expertly uses people in his elaborate and spiderweb-like game plan. So, in regards to Ben having some kind of intense thing for Juliet - many of us on this site seem to think Ben has the big crush on her and on one of the previous eps, Ben told Juliet adamantly "Your mine!". I think that was more of a declaration/reminder to her that she is just one of his pawnlike possessions to use as he sees fit. Not so much a declaration of a crush on or infatuation with her. I think Ben offed her married boyfriend because he did not want her to be distracted by anyone. Even though he was kind of nice-ish in a creepylike way to her when he made the ham dinner for them, that was an anomaly. Seems like all the people in this show are pawns of some sort. Except Ben and Widmore who are moving the pawns around.

I think that Ben actually physically traveled rather than just consciously traveled...Not sure if he fell out of the sky or just appeared. I keep thinking it's more like Star Trek where they could beam people off the Enterprise :) That's why he puked and why he wasn't sure what year it was and why he was not appropriately dressed for the desert. It's probably much more difficult on him and it seems like it's not actually a perfected system.

I was actually thinking that the island was probably well staffed with teachers that could teach multiple languages and skills to the children. Even though Ben was just a Workman, performing manual labor like his father, he could have had the same schooling as everyone else. Don't you wonder why if Ben can time travel in the future, he didn't already know that Alex was going to be shot?

Good question as far as why Ben was more focued on keeping Locke and Hurley safe, then Aaron.

Oh and Jessie, I think that Widmore did win this round with Ben. It was almost like he verbally B*tch slapped him. Widmore didn't really seem too surprised to see him. I just wish we knew who is the good guy and who is the bad dude.

Good guys or Bad guys - depends on how those fighting for control of the island ultimately intend to use the island powers. Bad guys would exploit it for their own gain at the expense of all else, regardless of what damage is done along the way. Good guys would either work to share its usefulness or try to keep it hidden from those who would seek to exploit and do damage. Ben has been trying to keep it hidden and away from Widmore, but as for his ultimate grand plan for the island? He's still my favorite character cause he's such an evil, smart and time/space-traveling, conniving weasel. I hope we see alot more of Widmore and how he develops his counterplans.

Good to be back, yes. As always enjoyed reading all of your insights - but have a HUGE question -

Is it possible that the Ben FF is just that? And not a time travel? When Sayid asks him how he got there, he tells him he used Desmonds boat to and then came through Saudia Arabia. Are we assuming that's a lie? I don't buy that when he went into the batcave he time traveled at that moment - doesn't make sense. Why would he? Because if he could leave and avoid being killed or captured, why would he come back? If he could just disappear, he would have stayed away.

The batcave thing was just to release the smoke monster - which was so stupid. Why not just have the Smoke Monster kill the guys without introducing the concept that Ben can control it?

I still believe that we're going to find out that Kate is Annie by the way.....and she's with him in LA....

As for the rest, I have no idea but I am enjoying putting the pieces together!

My thought - I think Ben killed Nadia so Sayid would kill for him (and although at the time the scene where Ben kicked ass in the desert was awesome, I have to agree with Daniel - Ben is the intellect, not the brawn).

Also, if all the people Ben wants killed/ Sayid is killing are related to the island/ Widmore, why don't the victims recognize Sayid? If not because of Widmore's insider information about the island, than due to the fact that he is one of the famous Oceanic Six?

Daniel - this might be my favorite review ever - I give you an A+ dude. My two favs:

10:12 -- Ben seems to have fallen from the sky and landed in the Sahara Desert, with a wounded arm, and stumbled onto a couple of guys on horses wearing turbans and armed with Ak-47s. Clearly someone slipped me acid during the commercial brake.

LOL

10:45 -- Black Smoke Monster? Hey, it's Ben. Well, not so good actually. I was wondering if you could do me a favor. I am locked inside a house and these six mercenary guys are trying to kill me and they just executed my daughter right in front of me. Yeah, I know. Sucks, right? Do you think you could take care of them for me? Really? Oh, man I totally owe you one. Say hi to the Mrs. for me. Linus, out.

I love it

I don't think that Ben went into the Bat cave and traveled to Tunisia. I think it was probably some other island time that he time traveled. Why- because he was wearing a parka when he landed in Tunisia and different clothes when he went into the bat cave. Just my thought, I suppose he could of put a parka on once he went into the bat cave since we didn't really see what he did in there.

I agree with the idea that the bad guys will ultimately use the island for their own personal gain by exploiting it, however I also think that how they play this game determines who is bad also. Both Widmore and Ben have killed and hurt innocent people so far. Maybe that is why Jacob is in hiding. Maybe he is fighting his own battle for the island and trying to find "pure" people to help him. People who are worthy of the islands secrets. Locke and Hurley would fall into the category of good people, that is until Locke killed Naomi. Ever since he killed Naomi he is having a hard time finding Jacob. Again, just a thought.

***There are 12 "vile vortices" (like Bermuda triangles) around the world. They are connected via electromagnetic grid lines. That is scientific fact.

***one is near Figi, one in the Mozambique Channel in east Africa, one over the western Sahara desert, one in Antartica, one IS the Bermuda triange, and there is several more.

*these are places on earth that have strange magnetic properties which are blamed for plane crashes and sailers getting lost because compasses mess up and stuff.

*I think somehow, Ben can access these places from the island.

**Black rock came from Mozambique
**Eko's brothers plane from Sahara or Africa
**Danielle's boat, Desmond's boat, and Losties plane came from Figi. (freighter guys said they were somewhere near Figi, 815 pilot said they were off course near Figi).

Someone else earlier mentioned all of this. I am just bringing it back up cause it seems like Ben is traveling through these places. The parka was what he wore when he came through Antartica to get to the Sahara.

(ps, I am an electrician, so I am into all of this electromagnetic shit!)

oh, and Penny had a couple guys stationed in Antartica waiting for signals or whatever.

I think a clean looking Ben scampered into the Bat Cave to conjure up Black Smoke Monster, but then emerged dirty and scruffy because he got smudged up from being in Black Smoke Monster's presence. Like standing around a sooty, smokey, old wood burning stove or a fire breathing dragon. He might have even had to lean in close to Smokey to give him an offering of some kind. Maybe throw him a dead chicken like they do for alligators at zoos.

I wonder where is Daniel's Q/A for this week? Those are always interesting.

lol. That's a hilarious image.

I'm sorry if this was brought up before but my eyes are buggy from reading this site the past 6 hours (Lord...all so fascinating!!!) Has anyone made a connection between Whidmore & Charlie? What are the odds of the writers using the same name? There's probably a simple explanation that I've missed, but it's killing me to know!!

Just read all the comments. Whew! There was a thought that Charles might be Ben's father, but then that would make Penny his half sister. He didn't speak about her as if she were his half sister. I just can't imagine him killing her then. There has to be another connection.

I liked the use of light and dark on Ben and Charles faces during the bedroom scene. They both have a dark side and yet they think they are rightously justified in their actions.

Thought you might enjoy this website. They post some interesting theories.

http://lost-theories.com/theories/2008/apr/27/its-all-big-game/

did anyone else notice that when Ben landed in the desert and the two men on horses came.... they only got defensive/concerned when they saw the dharma emblem on his jacket??

????????

Hey Suzie I saw where you said you are Indiana, what city? I live in Carmel just north of Indianapolis. It was beautiful here but getting colder tomorrow. :( At least not a blizzard!

hi Amy, I am in Anderson. The big black hole where General Motors used to be.
But yea, the weather has been pretty nice!
Small world isn't it?

Well it is a small world. We are pretty close. 16 years ago I worked for Bob Myers Buick there, not for long, though.

I think we are in a different time zone than most of these other people. Cause it is usually slow untill really late at night.
I don't think i can wait for them tonight. I am beat. Have a good Monday Amy!

Thursday will be here again before we know it. (and Sawyer!)

I saw this post over on DarkUFO and have to give credit where credit is due because I thought it was one of the best theories I've read in a long time. I've never been too thrilled by the idea of the smoke monster because I thought it was too hokey, but this theory sounds like one of the coolest ways to explain it...

super blogger girl! said...
I have a theory about the door which ties in everything nicely in my eyes. Since we already know they can bend time on the island they can obviously bend space too, ie: time travel. This door allows Ben to travel to the desert (remember the desert polar bear with the darma colar!) Ben doesn't control the smoke monster but rather the smoke monster compensates for any time anomalies in the present on the island. So Ben goes threw time (forward) and kills the dudes, so when he comes back the smoke monster takes care of them because if they don't exist in the future they cant exist in the present. Anyone? Anyone?

It's bloody 90 degrees here in Burbank, CA

Someone send some snow our way! :)

stacy - i completely agree with you. i honestly don't think that ben went through the cave and went to the scene at the beginning of the episode. it just doesn't make sense to me. we saw sayid as ben's hit man in his own FF, but in this FF/time travel we see ben recruiting him. so where does all this time traveling and present time overlap? how does it all co-exist? and is we assume all that happened and then he came back to the island, then why was he dirty? why wasn't he dressed in that nice suit he was in when he was talking to widmore? there are just too many questions for me to accept this theory just yet.

Seriously people, you need to get off of the whole constant thing. Perhaps when someone first makes contact with their constant, they are "cured" of the time shifting complications. I don't think they have to stay in constant contact with their constant. Secondly, the Biblical references came into play for me as well. Or maybe a reference from the movie Constantine where Keanu tells Rachel Wiess about how God and Satan have a wager to see who can collect more souls. Except that they can't directly interfere with human judgment. I wonder if they have a similar wager with the island itself being the prize. I think that the black smoke is a henchman for whoever has control of the island at the time. I also think that Matthew Abbidon is a human embodiment of the black smoke which would suggest that Whidmore does get control of the island at some point. This also makes me think that this is the real motivation for Ben to recruit Sayid; he has lost his henchman and now needs another to carry out his intentions. I am still waiting for Locke to step up and be what he is really heading towards. I have a feeling that his path is the right one and he just hasn't gathered all of the evidence he needs to be the most convincing. Overall, I loved the episode. This posting is somewhat random but I wrote as it came to me. The one thing I'd like to know is whether or not anyone else thought that the black smoke pretty much quadrupled in size when it was going after the Mercs?

no oh my god moments are you crazy no OH MY GOD MOMENTS ben calls the smoke monster to smoke (heh pun) the mercs old testiment style i must of played back that scene 5 times

kat: send some of that heat up here!! we ended up 16 inches of snow-40 mile an hour winds-this morning it is 25^-Anyway-is everyone under the assumption that when Ben went in his batcave he "time traveled" @ that exact moment?? I guess I don't. I think it was just a flash forward as all the rest of the scenes have been. I guess I thought he just went in there to let Smokie out!

I don't think Ben just let Smokey out. I think he had to get permission from Jacob, or make a deal with Smokey, or something. Or maybe program the computer that controls Smokey.
I don't think Ben can just sick Smokey on anybody he wants at any time. I just don't think Ben is THAT powerful. He would have used him more before. I think this was a last resort, EMERGENCY deal. I bet it cost Ben something to summon Smokey

I agree with you suzie, Ben was visibly shaken by this whole situation and perhaps smokey was his emergency move.

Check out this website and the comments.

http://lost-theories.com/theories/2008/apr/28/chess-and-why-ben-cant-kill-wi/

two thoughts that I have reading these posts:

If you ever slow down the scene where Smokey kills Eko, as the camera passes through Smokey we see flashes of Eko's life. Also, Eko faced Smokey before, wasn't harmed then faced him again and was killed (maybe for being unrepentful?) That makes me believe that ultimately, even if Smokey can be summoned, Its actions are Its own.

If you've ever watched the DVD's there is a clip where the doc is holding a rabbit with #5 on it, then the same rabbit shows up on a shelf behind him and chaos ensues until they shut off the camera. (sorry I don't remember which DVD and location). Point being the time travel deal doesnt have to be just conscience but physical and someone can be 2 places at once.

That being said I don't believe Ben traveled when he went into "the bat cave". I think with such a jump the makers of the show would have thrown us a bone so we don't lose it too much later.

angelo...i like the comparison to the movie Constantine (one of my favs).

I haven't had time to do some more Bible, connections. I think its funny that someone said I was the Bible expert and I never even looked at one until my whole crazy Jacob/Aaron connection.

I had some crazy theory yesterday about Kate working for Ben, and it had something to do with her staying in California. I remembered that's where Sayid and Nadia lived too but I got caught up in the draft.

Also the coffin (I'm glad I'm not the only one who is excited to see who is in it, I feel like I don't sound as morbid now). I originially said it was Ben, but I honestly don't think it is. I have no reason why, I just don't think Ben can die as we know it. Kind of like how I think Christian and Richard are "dead" but their are still alive. I really can't explain what I mean, I just hope you guys get what I am trying to say.

I hate to say it, and in no way do I want it to happen, but I think it is Sawyer. He has no family (Cassidy doesn't ever want to see him again and Clementine doesn't know who he is). Kate wouldn't go because, well, they parted on not so good terms and their relationship was never really "fixed." I think Jack went because well, like Sawyer said, he was the closest thing to a friend he had on that island and in a way Saywer brought "closure" ( as far as we know now ) to the deal with Christian and apologizing, etc.

Anywhos, I think I'm starting to ramble. It's the last week of classes and finals next week, so I'll try my best to keep checking and seeing what everone says. Happy Monday everyone!

I agree sarah.. I don't thinks its ben..or michael for that matter. a ton of good theories floating around. I would like to see jack and clair as brother and sister. I don't think kates in cahoots with ben. we need to see des and sayid again.

Does anyone remember when Ben and Sayid ran into one another...

Ben asked Sayid something about Desmond, like, "Your friend Desmond, do you remember him"

The quote and the way Ben said it keeps sticking to my mind. I believe Ben cannot find Penelope w/out Desmond. Sayid and Desmond seemed to have become close friends (I gather that from when the helicopter landed on the freightor and Sayid took care of him). Ben cannot find Desmond (to find Penelope) but since Sayid (presumably) stayed in touch with Desmond (on or off the island I'm not sure) Ben can get to Penelope?

Far stretch I know, but I think we all know how Ben works. He wants certain things done from other people, but it is not without an alterior motive we may or may not know.

Been crazy busy at work and ran around all weekend. First chance to get my 2 cents in!

kat - I agree, big tease in preview "we're all going to die"

I think Hurley saying he was "sorry he went with Locke" to Jack in the FF definitely referred to last ep, not leaving beach in the first ep as we thought.

Did anyone pick up Kate saying "crackers always help me" when Jack said he had a stomach bug. Hmmm...maybe there is a Sweet Baby James after all?

I am positive that the island won't let Sawyer die (must be a female), he even looked surprised when some of the bullets passed through overturned table. Sawyer taking Claire and Aaron to beach is interesting. but O6 are still separated... lots to cover in a few episodes if they are in fact leaving island at end of this season as we were told.

Sarah B - I think Christian will appear to Jack and Claire soon re: transfusion issue. Also, someone mentioned Claire wearing a wig, which made me think, when she was in Aussie with the psychic, her hair was black, so did she dye it black? If not, why doesn't she have roots? You think there's Dharma hair coloring available?

We are assuming the chopper is going to take them off the beach, because that's how Faraday's crew arrived. Since Faraday told Jack they werent there to save them the question of how they get off the island is up in the air. How did the mercs that killed Alex get to the island? No one heard a chopper? is there a boat around? if so where is it? They just sort of showed up. Why didn't smokey kill all of them? How did Keamy get away? I think Smokey gets bigger as it consumes bodies (or maybe souls). Someone mentioned lights in smokey, which I never noticed before, but there were definitely white lights when I watched the playback.

Jack knew Bernard knew morse code...I kind of recall he was in the military.

Whidmore is either Ben's brother or Uncle. Definitely his constant (I also agree that only need constant when subconscious time travel takes place.

Ben puking in the desert may be subconscious time travel (maybe when he was kneeling over Alex in island time) But I thought you could only go BACK in time that way? Or maybe the puking was from the gunshot wound. There definitely is another way off the island, maybe behind door No 1 in the bat cave. I think Ben was confirming the WHEN at the hotel desk, and looked surprised only because he was there for Sayid and there he just happened to be on the TV, I think Ben was relieved he didn't have to hunt for him. I'm sure how he got there will be revealed (and why he was wearing that parka)but "when" is the (constant) question.

Also, maybe desk clerk was surprised when she saw his name because of the amount of time that had passed since his last visit there.

Can't wait until Thursday....Namaste!

one thing i'm wondering is what changed between locke & ben?? just a few episodes back ben shot locke & left him for dead & now he's telling locke to stay close, that he needs to survive & he'll be safer if he's with ben. what happened to make ben change his mind...first he was threatened by locke & now he's protective of him???

why can't ben be intellect & brawn?? the way i see it, if he's so smart (& we know he is) then he woulda figured out that he should be able to kick some butt when necessary.

Remember that no matter how wonderful and unlike other TV shows Lost is, it is still a TV show on a commercial station. As such, it has to have big emotional pay-offs at some point. We saw the frame of one in The Constant - the over-arching love story between Desmond and Penelope. No way will the writers of this show allow Penney to be killed. The fact that Ben says that is what he is going to do, and knowing it can't possibly happen, provides a clue toward how the whole Ben/Charles Widmore epic battle will be resolved. Perhaps they will both fail, along with others, but Desmond and Penelope will still be standing, alive.

Very interesting situations on Lost. The Sahara scene was reminiscent of Dirk Pitt in a Clive Cussler novel.
Maybe Mr Cussler is a ghost writer?

The island will keep surprising us!

It was a great episode (although littered with commercial breaks). Ben is such a rich character.

But honestly--- I can't stand that annoying smirk on the botoxed face of "Juliet".
(The camera flashed on it during the Morse code/lie moment.) Ever notice how there isn't much movement around her mouth?
ugh.

It was a great episode (although littered with commercial breaks). Ben is such a rich character. I do think that the man who plays Desmond is a fine actor (and quite handsome),
The Desmond/Penelope relationship is unfolding as the reigning/framing love story.

But I honestly can't stand that annoying smirk on the botoxed face of "Juliet"-
the camera flashed on it during the Morse code/lie moment. Ever notice how there isn't much movement around her mouth?
Ugh.

woops my computer crashed and it sent twice.
i am sorry!

berky - Unless Ben finally catches up with Penny in the last season.

Then they can close out the Penny + Desmond situation that way.
I'm all for their love & yes I was moved during The Constant. I really like Desmond, but something is just not right with Penny.

Something about her when she tells Desmond in his fb in "Live Together Die Alone" He asks her how she found him & she says: "I have a lot of money, Desmond. With enough money and determination you can find anyone."

Something about the way she says that to him doesn't sit well with me. I always feel with Penny she knows more than she's letting on.
Having said that, I don't want her to die, but it can be possible towards the end.
They can have Ben & Desmond finally find her again. Just as Desmond's life is once again "normal" again & he's with Penny, Ben, or better yet, Sayid is lurking to even the score.

OR they can shock us all & just off her when we're least expecting it. Because Desmond + Penny together forever after all, is all a bit too fairy tale for me.

kat - no doubt you are right, and Desmond + Penny is too much of a fairy tale. If so, I'd predict that Desmond will end up in a situation where he must sacrifice himself for Penny. He has offered to sacrifice himself is several other instances thus far - perhaps he will finally succeed. But I think it will be with Penny's awareness; that their circle will be brought back to closure, even if it is broken again, for good.

I think The Shape of Things to Come and The Constant point all the way to end of the island - it'll be interesting how this looks in 2010, in retrospect.

Hmm. Not so sweet and docile a Penny. I like the idea, Kat. Desmond appeals to me however, as being an interestingly conceived and written character- intersecting class, backgrounds and cultures.

Honestly, why would people say that Ben can't kill at all? That is silly- given he killed his father previously, and some Tunisians in this episode.

Charles Widmore must be the exception, not "the rule".

i meant to say that "KILLING Charles Widmore must be the exception, not the rule."

I saw on Entertainment Tonight last week where the actor who plays the pilot who got chomped up by the smoke monster (I guess he is on that show "HEROS" now) is back on the Lost set in Hawaii. They said he is filming some new scenes for upcoming episodes. So he either comes back from the dead (doubtful) or he is going to be featured in someone's FLASHBACK.

Can't wait :)

There did seem to be a ton of commercials I agree.

I also agree Desmond and Penny are going to become more important...don't forget about Mrs. What'sHerName that was in the picture at the monastery and in the antique shop.

I also have a sinking feeling that LOST will end the way Stephen King's Dark Tower series did. I won't give it away but those who have read it will understand what I mean. We will be disappointed no matter how it ends because it will have ended! I read somewhere that he's one of the "advisers" on the show.

Great news about the pilot being back on...that's what we need more background! maybe it'll show how he swapped routes with Lawnmower man.

Dominic/Charlie was on MadTv on Sat night and they did a parody of LOST it got all the whispers, people popping up out of nowhere, then dying and coming back as well as conversations that went in circles, I thought it was funny, but if you don't watch the show, it would have been really hard to follow.

I don't think it is Sawyer in the coffin. Hurley would have went to the funeral. And Kate too. (even if they did end badly)

And Jack would have said "friend". That is just the kind of guy Jack is.

I think it might be Sayid in the casket.

LINDAnKC - I bet the pilot comes back in a Claire centric episode. They had a conversation in the airport coffee shop just before they had to board the airplane.. about the psychic actually. Was he the only person Claire ever told about the psychic? --He may have been.

I can't remember if he had contact with one of the other Losties...he very well may have.
You'd think I'd remember it since I JUST watched season 1! ha!

Is Claire getting even getting an episode before the end of season 4?

Lost lover, I really liked the "sweet baby James" name, and you are sharp to catch that "I eat crackers" line from Kate.

morning sickness would be a good reason to eat crackers!

Yea, I bet Kate is carrying a little Sweet Baby James!!! Will she name it Aaron?

LINDAnKC and kat: At the beginning of this season Lawnmower Man told the Hotline operator that he knew the pilot of Oceanic 815, so that's another possibility. Perhaps we'll find out why Lawnmower Man didn't get to pilot this "oh-so-special" flight.

I love Sweet Baby James, although I'd certainly much rather have me some Sweet Daddy James! LOL!

Janice - very true! Can't wait to find out!

I have all together dismissed Kate ever gives birth to a child. A "sweet baby James" would be very cute though! :)
IF she ends up being pregnant, I think sadly she'd have to miscarry. Or just not be pregnant all together would be better.

I can't stop thinking about how what if it came down to Sayid having to kill Penny. She would be his last assignment. How emotion packed would that scene be?!

Poor Desmond.

Poor Desmond will blow Sayid away!!! Then we have Sayid in the casket!

Don't forget Des can see the future. If he could predict what happens to Charlie....surely he can see Sayid coming for Penny.

don't let I_heart_Sayid hear you say that! :)

True; Desmond can see the future now - but ...
I for one would love to see a scene like that, where Sayid would have to off someone he knows, not necessarily Penny. Any one would be pretty dramatic.

suzie - or maybe he can't see the future of his constant.

I just think it would make great drama (and great TV)if Desmond and Sayid had a big showdown.

I think Sayid will be all Terminator auto pilot-killing machine untill he gets ready to kill Penny, and Desmond steps in and says "that's the woman I love!!!" and then Sayid will get all weepy and throw down the gun, and they will all hug, and Ben will be SO PISSED!

and then Ben will kill Sayid, so Sayid will be in the casket, but no one will come to the funeral because they all know about the 37 other innocent people Sayid killed just cause Ben told him to. the end

I_heart_Sayid where are you?? suzie just killed the love of your life!!
I'd go to Sayid's funeral!...being middle eastern myself I have a special connection to Sayid. Don't necessarily condone the torture, but can relate to the eye for an eye thing!..with a smile of course :)

My husband just pointed out something interesting about Desmond seeing the future. He only saw the future as it pertained to Charlie didn't he? Who else has he seen in their future?

I think that Des lost his future seeing abilities. The guy in the casket is under an alias, it didn't seem that Kate/Jack/
Hurley/Sun had them in their FFs so I don't think it's one of the O6, but Jack did know the alias.
P.S. my new godson is James and we've been referring to him as Sweet Baby James so it only seemed appropriate. Janice - I'm with you on Daddy James!!! : )

A couple of things...

First off, I think there are peoople who are putting too much weight on the theory of Charles being Ben's constant and what would happen if Charles were to be killed (the domino effect). If I remember correctly, not everyone needs a constant because not everyone was exposed to the magnetism like Desomnd was. Also, don't you need to contact your constant when you are time traveling? I find it hard to believe that Ben would be able to contact Charles everytime he moved back and forth from the island.

As for Smokey....I don't really think that Ben controls Smokey, but maybe something more like Smokey comes out when Ben tries to leave the island? Possibly Ben leaves through the closet so when he went in there, he tricked Smokey into thinking that he was leaving and therefore Smokey started raging. I agree with what someone said earlier, if Ben controlled Smokey, why did he instruct everyone to run?

Maybe, and I'm not sure on this, but maybe he can release/bring in Smokey, but has no control over who/what it takes?
Duh, that's obvious.

PS The reason I came here today is to ask how many shows we have left this season, countind the one this week. I can't remember.

PS When I said that was obvious I was talking to myself, not being mean to anyone else. Sorry, it's been a long week for me already and it's only Tuesday...

hey sarah b.- here's the schedule

Thu
5/01/08
10:01 - 11:00 PM
Something Nice Back Home
New Episode

Thu
5/08/08
10:02 - 11:00 PM
Cabin Fever
New Episode

Thu
5/15/08
10:02 - 11:00 PM
'There's No Place Like Home' Part 1
New Episode

Thu
5/29/08
9:00 - 11:00 PM
'There's No Place Like Home' Part 2
New Episode

thanks kat.

"10:45 -- Black Smoke Monster? Hey, it's Ben. Well, not so good actually. I was wondering if you could do me a favor. I am locked inside a house and these six mercenary guys are trying to kill me and they just executed my daughter right in front of me. Yeah, I know. Sucks, right? Do you think you could take care of them for me? Really? Oh, man I totally owe you one. Say hi to the Mrs. for me. Linus, out."

DUDE! That's the funny Sh*t I've read...LMAO...!!!

Forgive me if someone has mentioned this before, but I didn't see it.

Did anyone catch the flashes of lightning (or something) in the "smoke monster"? Could the "smoke monster" and the storm that seems to surround the island be the same?

I think Whidmore set up Desmond on that boat race in hopes he'd find the island and keep him away from Penny (double duty) unfortunately Desmond didn't catch on to the plan.....
I also agree with the other posters about Whidmore being Ben's constant.... I don't think that scene with Ben's fighting was meant to be impressive but to show he is capable of holding his own when he needs to...(I'm sure it would've came in handy when he was getting his *ss whipped when he was held captive until Michael freed him)
I"M REALLY SICK OF KATE and her love triangle BS with Sawyer and Jack- it's getting old. And what's with Juliet and that IT (clown) smirk she always has going on? Kinda creepy. Dead doc washing up on shore...yeah...not a good sign...lawnmower man in next EP looks like he might be a good guy after all....
Astonished by Sawyers determination to make sure Claire was ok...do I smell potential romance perking?

tropical moose - this is just an opinion of mine but i think the flashes in the smoke monster have to do with the person's past or the person's memories or something. when the smoke monster is flashing in front of eko (way back when) there are flashes of faces within the smoke kind of like pictures. so i can't exactly explain what they are but that is what i think the flashes are.

does it seem that smokey is also getting larger as it consumes people (ala the Blob)? It seemed to be huge in the last ep.

FYI Just read in Advertising Age that the Sci Fi channel was going to run back to back LOST episodes on Monday nights...not sure when that starts happening...hopefully soon. Might check their website.

Kitten - the IT clown - Pennywhistle I think is his name REALLY freaks me out. I still can't walk over storm drains to this day1!!!

Jaclyn: That's an interesting idea, and I had forgotten about those flashes in front of Eko. What episode was that? I think I should rewatch them all, because I'm starting to forget things :)

What if Ben could control who the smoke monster goes after. Wouldn't that explain why some people can walk through the jungle all day long and never ever run into the smoke monster? He had information on everyone on the boat. He could easily have given enough info to smokie to go after Widmore's men.

After the smoke monster took those pictures or flashes of Eko's past peeps, the smoke moster was able to take the form of those people later. The manifestation of Eko's brother Yemi was really the smoke moster. Remember he said,"you mistake me for your brother", right before Eko was killed.

Here is a pretty cool recap of the smoke monster. It's kind of interesting. Someone else on this blog turned me onto this kid. He is pretty good with his Lost recaps.

http://www.youtube.com/user/smolesiuk

Hey LostLover, the clown in IT was named Pennywise, & yes, he's a major freak.

quick question: do we kno how Clair became pregnant? well I kno HOW, but wut I mean is, who's Aaron's dad? do we kno? This has been bugging me 4 a minute.

Also, I've been thinking. people have posted that this whole thing b/w Whidmore & Ben is a big game of Risk or something like that. well, that got me thinking 2 a few lines...
Ben says 2 Whidmore that he can't kill him
Keamy tells Alex she's just a pawn
Ben kept telling Locke & Sawyer that the commandos were there 2 capture him

all of these lines have something 2 do w/chess (and am I mistaken, or does Jack still have those black & white rocks from way back when?). Pieces aren't killed in chess, they are CAPTURED. plus somebody mentioned that Ben & Whidmore had light & dark faces @ their meeting. could this b a colossal game of chess where Whidmore & Ben r the kings, and, by rule, cannot kill each other (any1 familiar w/chess knows that a king can NEVER capture the opposing king)? could Whidmore's "changing" of the rules b that he KILLED someone instead of CAPTURING them? who r the other "pieces" (rooks, bishops, knights)? most importantly, who r the queens? the queen is the most powerful chess piece, meaning they get the utmost protection. just thinking out loud here, any thoughts on this?

Claire's baby daddy is Thomas. He up and left her when she was hanging curtains.

Props to lostandgoneforever who posted on 04/27/2008 @ 4:47 PM. (S)he posted a link 2 another site talking about Ben & Whidmore & chess. I guess I got beat 2 it...I still think it's an interesting analogy, especially w/all the black & white symbolism. plus, doesn't Ben play chess? & Locke definitely beat the computer @ chess, remember? Mikhail said that no one ever beat it, but Locke did. Oh, if this is a giant chess match, who (what piece) is Jacob (if any)? how does Jacob fit in2 the chess match?

Wait a minute, that just made me think.

You would think that Claire would want to raise her baby due to her father abandoning her. Maybe Christian (this relates to my opinion that he has a big part in the power/control of the island) knew that Claire was going to give up her baby and he wanted her to do the right thing, which led to the psychic (fake or not, I'm still not sure - have to watch that Eko episode again) telling her that she had to raise it.

I don't know how that answers anything, maybe how Claire got on the island?

Like I've been saying all week, it's the last week of classes and finals are next week so I'm a bit tired at the same time hopped up on my mocha lattes so I think my theories are just all discombobulated (sp?).
So sorry ya'll. Can't wait for my three hour break from school on Thursday...whew...

Anon...this may sound weird, but could Jacob be the board itself?

whoops, last Anonymous post @ April 29, 2008 03:13 PM was me...

Thomas is Claire's baby daddy? who the hell is that? guess he isn't all that important...

yeah Krux, the only episode he was in was Claire's flashback when we find out she is pregnant. i think that is way back in season one?

by jacob being the board i meant that you cant play chess without a board...the pieces have no where to go or nowhere to move. the island and the people on it and the situations surrounding it are all nothing without, well, i think, nothing without jacob (who may be christian - that is a far stretch, i know. but like i always say, those of you who seen my posts know i feel really strongly about christian, i just dont have anything to back it up...yet)

Sara Badera: Jacob is the board they're playing this massive game of chess on...

dunno, perhaps. maybe we don't have enough information yet 2 kno how Jacob fits it2 all this. Hurley & Locke must b of utmost importance tho, as they can physically c Jacob's cabin (didn't Hurley actually c Jacob, making him more important than Ben or Lock who couldn't c him/it?)

Sara Badera: Makes perfect sense, can't play chess w/o the board.

on a completely different note, where r the Others? I kno they're @ the Temple, but would they have gotten the warning that Locke & Sawyer received via telephone? Also, if the captain & his men r on the island (Lawnmower Man, presumably, is also on the island), who's left on the boat? Minkowski (deceased), Sayid, & Desmond? also, "when" was Farrady sending the morse code message in relation to the shootout/Black Smoke-out w/Ben? Plus, in the preview 4 next week' episode, Lawnmower Man is saying something like "if they find out they'll kill u" or something like that. Who is he talking about? the Commandos? I would assume the Black Smoke would have eliminated them, except 4 Keamey, who, quite obviously, is in the preview as well.

Kruxoli: I like ur ? on who would be the queen-Annie???? She has to come back in to play somewhere yet thru the course of this-right?? Sarah B: good luck on ur finals-go get'm girl!!!

I just started thinking about something. Ben had Michael get on Keamey's boat so he could "eliminate" the freighter crew per Mr. Happy's directives. well, y would Ben (Mr. Happy's boss/superior) not want Michael 2 set off the bomb once he boarded Keamey's boat? U would think that Ben, who is so threatened by Whidmore & his people, would jump @ the first opportunity 2 eliminate them and keep them away from the island. 4 some reason, Michael must wait 2 complete his task (wait, maybe he can't blow up the ship cuz he would also die -- island won't allow it till it's good & ready). anyway, 1 would think that Ben would have wanted the freighter sunk ASAP 2 prevent what happened this last episode, but that's not what happened. perhaps Ben has something 2 gain from the freighter people. y else would he allow them 2 get there? I mean, if the only reason Michael couldn't blow the boat up is b/c "the island won't let him," y wouldn't Ben have selected someone else 4 his spy?

who are the queens for the chess game?
Maybe Mr. Friendly is one! hahahaha

Has anyone noticed how much Claire's baby daddy looks just like a yound Ben? Seriously, watch the episode with him in it. Ben is an odd looking guy, and Thomas looks just like him.

that was supposed to be YOUNG Ben.

i love the idea of the chess game. You must always be a few steps ahead in your thinking in order to succeed. It seems that Ben is this way about everything he does on and off the island. Through every scene we have ever been presented, it seems he has calculated his actions and moves many steps ahead so that he can manipulate the people around him to get what he wants.

My boyfriend gets so upset when he watches the show that I worry he'll have a stroke. BUT HE WON'T STOP!!!

He nitpicks errors and discrepancies, like when the red shirts ran TOWARD the shooting, but he's totally hooked.

I told him about this place and he won't come in case there are spoilers or someone guesses something right. He wants to be surprised.

Didn't the doctor on the freighter die of time travel mouth foaming-ness???

or was the another guy???

No, it wasn't the doctor, it was another guy, Minkowski, the radio room guy I think. (Minkowski is played by the actor Fisher Stevens).

who is left on the boat now?
Desmond, Sayid, Michael, and the dead body of Naomi.

what about Naomi??? they wouldn't make such a point of bringing her dead body back to the ship and then just forget it.

Did they ever unload her out of the chopper?

does anyone NOT believe she'll come back to life?

Kruxoli - I thought that in the preview Lawnmower Man said "if they find you they'll kill you" and that he was talking to Sawyer, Claire, Aaron and Miles because then if I remember correctly it cut to a pan of the island and you could hear Aaron crying. My recollectin could be wrong though.

Kruxoli - Pennywise! Right! Penny Whistle is a store in NY that has a freaky carnival guy on the front...don't like that one either!

I think the Queens maybe the mothers or pregnant women...but LOL Mr. Friendly, suzie and WOW Thomas looks a heck of a lot like Ben! Kind of gross to think he may have FB'd and slept w/Claire eeeew!

And don't pay too much heed to the previews, they are teases and they often show clips that have nothing to do with what we think they should (ala Hurley saying "we're all going to die - referring to Risk when we thought it was about the "war")

Sarah B. Good luck w/studies and tests next week. I know I won't be able to get back on until Monday.

suzie - come back to life like ChristianLove, maybe...or in an fb.

I honestly can't remember anyone mentioning Naomi after they got to the freighter. do they? mention her I mean.
I have to go back & read the transcripts.

sarah b.- LOL! "Claire's baby daddy is Thomas. He up and left her when she was hanging curtains."

As for the people left on the freighter...did anyone actually see the captain on the island? He was in the episode with Michael when Sayid realized the helicopter was gone. So wouldnt that mean he's still on the boat?

Suzie......I agree....I am sure Naomi will come back to life on the freighter. Otherwise, they wouldn't have made such a big deal out of taking her back.

However, it is hard to tell how much time has passed on the freighter. So much has happened on the island, it is probably just the next day on the freigher.

Hope Naomi doesn't wake up, stumble out of the copter and fall off the edge of the boat. :P

Clowns freak me out. I went to a haunted house on holloween and there was a guy dressed like that Pennywise, I screamed my brains out he kept walking toward me I will never go to a haunted house again it gives me the creeps just thinking about it. Check out Thomas's paintings they are very similar to the ones in Whidmores office and Desmonds drawings in the Swan hatch and the hatch itself, and somewhere else that I can't remember I brought this up before. but no one noticed. Maybe Thomas lived on the
island at one time. Maybe he is annies son ???

Thanks for the good lucks guys, I appreciate them!

Here is a little post. I know how you guys feel about spoilers, so I'm putting the link. You'll see an entry for today and that is the one you want to read...it is one spoiler, but I think it is one some of you may like...

http://www.tvsquad.com/2008/04/30/spoilers-anonymous/

ITS A SPOILER so if someone clicks on it and doesn't realize you can't be mad at me cause I warned you!!!

Thanks Sarah loved it.

No prob Goldie.

I should probably let people you know you may see spoilers for your other favorite shows on there too, so be careful. Yay new lost in exactly 23 hours and 59 minutes. Ha, I only know that cause Idol just ended.

so who goes?..........no, no don't say.

c'mon! sarah b. you know the time that cause you counting down! haha!
I am!

oops! forgot the time difference!

Hey Site Guy. Is there any way that you can start numbering the comments posted? It's virtually impossible to read all the comments in one sitting, and it would be great to come back the next day and be able to remember where I left off. Thanks.

JH-
I would love if they could do that, I usually end up trying to remember the time the last comment I read was, but sometimes there can be multiple comments on the same day around the same time, especially if it's the Friday after LOST is on.

its thursday wooooooooooohooooooooooooooo.

sorry, lattes kicking in. does anyone know whos ff/fb we have tonight? im hoping jack and NO its not so i get my christian fix. lol.

site guy's name is Daniel :)

HEY GUYS!!! LOST is on tonight!!

Also, my husband's birthday! A great day all around!

Happy Birthday/LOST Thursday!

sarah b. - of course so you can get your Christian fix! :)

it's Jack!! :)

I heart Jack!

I think tonight is a Jack ep. I get emails from EW Doc Jensen. Today's was interesting. Not so much what I consider spoilers, but some theories are really interesting. Like, maybe Widmore is really Magnus Hanso...could be older than Richard Alpert. And that the hieroglyphics in the batcave are from an ancient civilization (possibly aliens) as is the infamous 4-toed statue. Here's the link:
http://www.ew.com/ew/article/0,,20196791,00.html?xid=email-alert-lost-20080501-item1

Happy Birthday kat's husband!

When Michael was going to blow up the boat and the flag came out didn't Ben or Mr. Friendly tell him they weren't going to blow up the boat because "innocents" would be killed and they don't kill "innocents"? Maybe that is "the rule" that Widmore changed. Alex was an "innocent". Chat at ya tomorrow.

thanks suzie! :)

a new episode for your birthday! what more can you ask for right?
I'm going to slap a big bow on the TV at 9:59! ha!

well according to the schedule I look at on http://lost.about.com. looks like the world needs an extra minute of Grey's this week!

so the bow will go on at 10:00 (pm/pac)

*wink*

In response to Jen, who posted: "When Michael was going to blow up the boat and the flag came out didn't Ben or Mr. Friendly tell him they weren't going to blow up the boat because 'innocents' would be killed and they don't kill 'innocents'?" Does Ben tell Michael this when Ben calls the boat? also, who on the boat would be considered an "innocent?" as the whole crew works 4 Whidmore.

one more thing. we saw way back when that Naomi was recruited by Daniels (black dude from The Wire - sorry don't know his LOST character's name). what happened 2 him? is he no longer important?

last thought: where the hell have Sayid & Desmond been (I kno they're on the freighter, but how may episodes have passed since we saw them)? and what happened 2 Michael after Sayid turned him in 2 Capt. Keamey?

you all need to read the weekly reviews on www.longlivelocke.blogspot.com

they are the best reviews I have ever read. This guy really knows what he is doing

I think Sayid might figure out that he was set up by Ben. He always seems very intuitive that way. Then, his next target will be Penny, Ben will show him a picture and will recognize her from Desmond's picture. Then the plotting will begin...maybe he and Desmond will have some plan to switch things around on Ben or Charles. Just a thought.

Also, in Desmond's flash of Claire getting on the helicopter... I don't recall actually seeing her on the helicopter. I thought they showed her just about to get on.. and then maybe something happens that she can't get on, gets shot?....

Happy Lost Night!

The episode just started and all I am going to say is go Rose!

happy watching everyone!

OMFG.

I cannot wait until tomorrow so we can talk about this!

I cannot wait until tomorrow so we can talk about this!

how much longer until you west coasters see it?

ps its 1000 central, so I know us and the east coasters saw it. that makes it 8 in the west coast sooo, do you guys get lost @ 9 your time or 10? we should all figure this out so we know when its safe to comment.

10pm on the west coast. :(

We have seen it in Indiana. Jin is still a badass ain't he?
GOOD EPISODE, can't wait to dicuss it!

Haven't seen it on the left coast yet...still a 1h40m until broadcast begins! AAAARRRGGGGGGGGHHHHHHHHH!!!

marybaby, I think you will agree it is worth the wait.

Def worth the wait, suzie and i promise!!!

I don't think I'll be awake once you lefters are done with the episode, but I promise I'll be on as soon as I wake up Friday morning.

PS This will not ruin anything for you guys, but if you know me then you will def think of me for a split second during this episode!

Haha!

OMG!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
They're together!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

:)

Hey, Kate's better than Juliet!

yay!!

This has got to be one of my favorite episodes ever!!

Kate's probably making sure that Sawyer's daughter is taken care of. That's probably the "errand" she was running. Why didn't she just tell him??

What is up with Sawyer & Claire?...why all of a sudden is he her guarding angel?

I think Jack knows (by tonight's episode) that he is related to Aaron. Just by the wording of "you're not even related to him".

Will catch up tomorrow! :)

A+ episode!!

Jin and Sawyer Rock!

So do you think it's true? Is Hurley right, are they dead or is he just crazy???? I'm gonna hate it if they are dead.....

I think they definately raised the bar on Season 4. All of the episodes have been great!

Miles spiritual connection is freaky. That was just a horrible visual of the dead bodies.

sarah badara - I don't even post on here that often but I read the posts a lot and I even thought of you during last nights episode!

Iloved it when Jack sat outside the crazy hospital till really late, watching the bench to see if he saw Charlie talking to Hurley!

And I said before, I think Sawyer and Claire might hook up if they both stay on the island. IF HE CAN FIND HER!

And Kate ain't exactly WIFE material. She never stops lying and sneaking around.

I can't wait to hear what Daniel has to say about this ep. He better not give it a B, I was in awe for 1/2 of it! My fiance doesn't read the comments on the blog, but I was talking about it all episode and how people would be psyched to see so much of Christian!! :)

Why no scar from the appendectomy on Jack when he was nearly naked? (Thank you, Lost!)

You'd think the smoke detectors would be hard wired into a building like that.

I am glad people are finally treating Charlotte the way she deserves to be treated!

I have a bad feeling about Juliet causing the Losties some kind of trouble now that she understands that Jake wants Kate and not Juliet.

And the message from Charlie was pretty cool. "You're not supposed to be raising him Jack!"

favorite quotes from last night:

"You're not supposed to be rasising him, Jack."

"He's not even related to you!"

"I will break his fingers, one at a time."

"If either of them try to run, shoot them in the leg."

"Who are you? Her big brother?"
"No, I am the dude who is gonna put a boot in your face if ya don't say yes I under stand."
"Yes I understand."

"It's your attitude, Charlotte, your horrilby bad attitude that makes them not trust us."

and whatever Rose said to Charlotte about "watch your mouth!"

Rewatching now Suzie....Rose says, "just watch your tone, Red."

Loved the list of quotes Suzie, but I'm drawing a blank on who said "I will break his fingers, one at a time." and when they said it.

My favorites were the Juliet and Sawyer quotes.

Sorry that last anonymous was me.

Anon...Jin says that to Charlotte in Korean about what he will do to Daniel if she doesn't fess up to the fact that she understands Korean. Jin is such a calm, cool and collected bad ass...totally love him!!

Thanks MicheleD I can't believe I blanked on that. He is a badass!

kat you are reading my mind! jack would not make a ocmment like that if he didnt know he was related to aaron.

my thought with the smoke detector...

black smoke monster appeared as christian? kinda week theory i know, but worth a shot.

and did anyone see the previews for next week? omg! it totally goes witihi my theory that people are dead (richard, christian, charlie, etc) but not in a way that we can understand or know death as.

OH and HOORAY for christian! as soon as i saw john terry on the credits i was like wahoooo and my boyfriend said i like him WAY too much.

and WOW did i love claire seeing her dad. maybe miles will describe him to sawyer and sawyer will be like wtf?? and tell jack or something i dont know. but the connection between the sheppards is WAY too big to ignore!

Excellent episode! One of the best. More and more Christian Shep. Jack wasted no time hitting the bottle & meds in this episode. Happy to get me some of Sawyer!!! Lots of OM....G!!!

where is daniel? is it my imagination or is the blog usually up by now? I am dying to get the conversation up and running.

I am feeling more and more that the island (or the powerful people of the island) is not interested in Aaron, and they seem to WANT him to leave the island.

Maybe he is the good soul who SHOULD own and lead the island someday, but they don't want him to.

The fortune teller guy said don't let anyone else raise him or bad things will happen. Maybe not happen to Aaron, happen to the island....or the world.

I bet bunches of money AAron can't be killed.

I THINK SOMEONE BORN ON THE ISLAND HAS TO RUN IT. BEN ALWAYS LIED AND SAID HE WAS BORN THERE BUT HE WASN'T. MAYBE BEN IS KILLING ALL THE MOTHERS SO THEY WON'T HAVE BABIES TO INHERIT THE ISLAND!

My theory on why Jack has no scar in the flash-forward? Because the island has healing properties (obviously). The Island WANTED Jack to fall ill and have his appendix taken out. God only knows why at this point. But I won't be surprised if in an upcoming ep, Jack (in "Island time") raises his shirt gingerly and finds no scar shortly after the surgery.

Suzie- Cool theory about natural island-born babies inheriting the island. Could he be fooling Juliet about why the mothers die or would she be in on it I wonder?

sorry about all the capitols. didn't know the cap lock was on.

hey, now that I think about it, maybe Juliet WAS in on it too. She sure was determined to get Sun on the beach for the rescue!

And did anybody else notice the REALLY STRANGE face that Charlotte made when Jin made her promise to get Sun off the island? CREEPY!!!

I love that we got so many answers last night. Jin, doesn't have to be dead on the island, he just wanted to make sure Sun got onto the chopper. (of course he could still die, but I guess we don't know that until later).

We know why Jack starts drinking.

We know that Jack and and Kate get together, although they are definately a train wreck waiting to happen. I LOVED seeing them together, but man is it going downhill fast.

We see how Claire gets separated from Aaron. I don't think we will see much of Claire for a while.

It would be nice to know what Kate is doing for Sawyer. Cassidy and Clementine were last living in Alburquerque, so unless they moved to California I doubt Kate is visiting them. I'm sure we will be finding out very soon what she is up to.

The workman that recruited Ben's dad to the island is making an appearance next week. Freaky ghost number 1. I wonder if Rousseau, and Carl will make an appearance.

I thought that guy in the preview looked familiar- he got Ben's dad the Dharma job! Thanks teresalynn!

I actually did see a scar on Jack when he was walking around the kitchen in his towel. Nice eye candy.

Noone is listening to me. when does daniel ususally put up the review?

I had to rewind my DVR several times on his half naked body. It was hard work but I got the job done ;)

It could be any time now. Last week he was super early, but it could be later this morning.

Depends on how swamped he is at work...:)

no one is listening to you Jaiyne, cause they can't get their dirty little minds off of Jack in a towel!

Sawyer looks hotter. He looks hot even when he is drunk! Jack kinda looks pathetic when he's drunk.

ok. you guys are all swooning over jack- did anyone notice how gross his teeth are when he proposed to kate? which, im sorry, she would so never marry him.

anyone else think that this flash forward actually takes place before the first flash forward we ever saw=- the one at the end of last season where he meets kate at the airport?

and i really dont know if the island wants aaron, but i do think it is important that he isnt being raised by claire. I kinda dont think shes dead- i think she just disappeared with Christian and never came back...

and i cannot believe Rousseau is dead. anyone else think maybe shes not, even though we kinda saw her dead? i dont have a dvr so i cant rewind. anyone rewind and see if that is really her?

oh!!! and why is noone else surprised that the guys that got eaten by the smoke monster didnt get eaten!!!

Argh! I have to go to a function for work and will be away from my computer for hours... no diary for me until mid-afternoon! The suspense....

teresalynn, i was right there with you. yum yum yum. half naked jack and christian in the episode...my fav by far!

okay, miles obviously saw christian, but does he know that he's a ghost? he would act a bit more strangre i think if christian was a ghost. remember what happened when he found carl and danielle? and when he went to that lady's house? but when he told sawyer claire left with someone she called dad, it sounded to me like he referred to another dude who was physically on the island. does that make sense?

i really am excited to see christian like this. and have claire finally see him on the island! and now miles saw him, i really think he has to describe him to sawyer ( i hope ) and like i said before saywer will be WTF is jacks dad doin on the island and why is claire calling him dad and then he may or may not put it all together and then maybe tell jack. i am just so excited!!! haha

jack is not hot. he was before he showed himself to be such a mental-case. i no longer find him hot.

i would have stayed behind with sawyer. sawyer is a god. :)

I think Smokey gave the mercs a good thrashing as a nice warning that if you mess with Mr. Linus, it ain't gonna be pretty!

ps, this ff is after the trial because when jack sees hurley he tells him that he changed his mind (being with kate and aaron) after the trial...

i had a hard time figuring out when this ff was but then he told that to hurley @ santa rosa.

Also, when Jack picks up the razor Kate bought him the camera pans down and you can see his scar really well.

Yea, I think this FF is after the trial and after the first time we see Jack visit Hurley, but before Kate and Jack meet at the airport. It is also after Sun has the baby.

does he actually say "i changed my mind after the trial"? uses the words after the trail?

and anyway, who says that the first ff was before the trial? i mean, kate was in custody before the trial. so that first ff must be after they broke up when jack lost it and became an alcoholic/pill popper.

right. after the trial, yet before the airport meeting. thats after they break up.

do you remember kate saying she had to go because "he wouldnt like it" meaning them meeting? i still dont know who she was referring too.

lost writers kick ass. :)

Oh, can someone please understand why I don't like Kate?

She was doing something for Sawyer because she promised, I totally respect that BUT I don't think her friend really was Noreen. It was either Ben or Cassidy. If it is Cassidy, that would be interesting. I would like to see how Saywer tells Kate about his baby mama drama. I really think it's Ben though.

But moving on, she's lying to Jack, she supposedly loves him and she's still lying!! I know a lot of people don't like Jack now because he is a bit pathetic lately, BUT he is our hero/main character, he realizes they have to go back. If it wasn't for her lying to him and some of the things Hurley said, he wouldn't be drinking like he does/is!!

But with that said, I understand how Kate was with him and he loves her and I'll totally respect that, but I can still not like Kate. I feel bad for Juliet, he used her. Oh well, I am interested to see what happens to her. Someone said that she may be in on Ben's plan for the baby mama's, BUT, why would she be so upset when she couldn't save one of them?

Sorry, as I type and post and read over things start coming back to me.

Does anyone have any thoughts about Juliet's motives for telling Kate about the kiss between her and Jack and how it meant that he loved Kate (I know she didn't say it like that, but that was the point...right?) knowing that Jack was pretending to still be out?

We had a clue to when this is and I'm going to ask my husband because he is such a baseball freak, but the red sox swept the Yankees in the world series playoff. It would of been September but dang, I can't remember what year.

I think it was just exciting to see Jack and Kate finally together after all the sexual tension between them on the island, but I do think that Sawyer and Kate are a better couple. Jack acts strong, but we have actually seen Sawyer be stronger in these recent episodes. Risking his life to save Claire and staring down Locke in the jungle with the guns.

SaraB, I have been fixating on Christian since the first time we saw him wandering on the beach after the plane crashed. Did you see he is still wearing those dorky white tennis shoes with his suit? It was a little heart warming to see the old ghost holding Aaron and cooing to him. In a freaky way.

I am dying to know how he is connected to Jacob and Widmore. They has to be something there.

First thing I thought when I saw the merc's was how the hell did they survive the smoke monster. That was BS if you ask me. Five of them survived and only one of those was injured??????

This FF was just after the trial but BEFORE Jack/Kate Met at the airport at the very end of season 3. as of now, i THINK the FF at the end of Season 3 is the farthest we have gone in the future so far in the series--with that in mind, here is my theory. I think that after the Jack/Kate meetup at the airport, Aaron is going to start doing weird/scary things that are going to send Kate running to Jack. and she is going to start to agree with Jack, that all three of them need to get back to the island (and get aaron back with claire)

What do you think about Hurley saying that they are all dead? In the preview for next week a guy said "i've been dead for 14 years", or something to that effect. I hate to say this, but if dead people come back to life, that will ruin this show for me-I really don't want to see a bunch of dead people running around!

Jenn - I agree, I think she did it to show Kate that Jack still loved her. Juliet knew Jack was awake, maybe she wanted Jack to see that Kate really cared about him too and she (Juliet) didn't want to be the other woman again. Semi clearing her conscience (sp?) and making sure they get together?

So....they get off the island (somehow), then the trial, then Jack changing his mind about Aaron, the Hurley-not-taking-meds visit then the Jack-Kate argument then ?Jack visits Hurley again (playing basketball) then Jack grows the bird's net beard & flips out @ the airport? am I correct in this timeline? any other thoughts?

am I the only 1 who thought Kate was gonna say she was doing something 4 Ben when Jack asked her? I suppose I should've known it would b Sawyer, but after Ben's recruitment of Sayid, I kinda thought she was gonna say "I was running an errand 4 Ben"

Jack is 100% aware of his relation 2 Aaron, otherwise he never would have said "YOU'RE not even related 2 him" (I think if he was unaware of his relation 2 Aaron, he would have stressed "related" instead of "you're"

& what kind of bootleg "security system" does the island have? Smokey didn't handle its business, & I am seriously disappointed. I was hoping someone would stumble upon some mangled commando corpses, but all we got were barely buried Karl & Danielle, which, really sux. how in the is Danielle able 2 survive 4 however many years but falls 2 a blow dart? that's some straight up horse manure if u ask me. I can c Karl dying, but Rousseau is tough as nails, I seriously hope they're pulling a fast 1 here, but I don't think so. hopefully we'll c more Danielle in someone else's flashback.

good call sarah badara. i like what you said about juliet clearing her conscious.

lostnut- i agree that that ff is the farthest one forward. so then, who do you think is in the casket?

i dont know about aaron doing weird things, but they certainly cast a great "freaky" kid. that is one unattractive child. if he doesnt start doing weird things, ill be disappointed.

kruxoli, the first time jack visits hurley he is playing bball, this was after that.

sarah badera, I agree I also think that was her way of letting Jack off the hook.

Also lostpedia says that last nights episode took place on August 31, 2007 and during the first week of September 2007

Lostpedia has a Newspaper Clipping article that is interesting (pertaining to the article Jack was reading on who died)

****SPOILER ALERT****CLICK HERE AT YOUR OWN RISK****

http://www.lostpedia.com/wiki/Newspaper_clipping

It was pretty much is what I was thinking. So it just solidified it for me.

All children are cute!! That's just a mean thing to say about Aaron.

Just to throw this out there, Moriarty was also the nemesis of Sherlock Holmes. His title was Professor. It may be a stretch to relate "Professor" and "Dean" (like at a university), but I couldn't help thinking of that.