The Lost Diary

i win!

I dont think anyone expects the Blog to be up this soon! LOL

2nd

Holy moly - I was off to the movie set - now I have to read...

Did anyone else think that when Miles was all pierced up with the stripe in his hair he looked a lot like Rufio from Hook? It's all I could think about.

@ fanolost re: your April 16, 2009 06:18 AM under last week
- Widmore's exile has to be after the Purge because the Others are in New Otherton. I don't think Naomi said he didn't know how they died, she said Ben caused them to die. Or at least we assume Ben, she only said a man...could be Richard or Jacob.

Miles said he only can speak to the dead about things they knew before they died and that was why Hurley said his super power was better, so to be honest I'm not sure how the dead people could tell Miles where Ben is in 2004.

Something about this isn't meshing. Maybe I have something wrong.

Posted by: Jenn3 | April 16, 2009 06:26 AM

Daniel - ah yes - free will and the CHANGING of what should be.

Been saying it was to be this way. I've been shot down numerous times.

Just cuz Miles says you can't doesn't mean you can't change it.

CAZ - that's hysterical...RufiOOOOOOOOOOO!!!

@jenn3 - I'm all sorts of confused right now ...

I loved this Episode. I loved Hurley, Dr. Chang , and Miles scene.

Nice to finally have an answer to why Miles asked Ben for such a specific amount of $$. I enjoyed this episode - not as stellar as last week but still a gooder :)

@ Caz | April 16, 2009 06:27 AM
HA HA HA! You are right

It makes me wonder who Ilana works for and the guys who kidnapped Miles!

Haha, I totally thought the same thing about Rufio!

fanolost - Are you confused b/c of what I wrote or b/c you don't remember what your other post was?

@billy, where you at man? Daniel is on our side, the Losties are all here to play their role in history, not change it. Faraday has to come back to tell Charlotte not to come back to the island. Score one for Team Miles !!!

Oh Daniel, you're the best! Thanks for another great read... ALWAYS look forward to Thursday mornings after Lost airs. ;-)

RUFIO RUFIO RUFIOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO

A thought occurred to me while watching last night and I don't know how I would feel about it if this actually happened, BUT: Since we are all coming full circle (seeing the hatch being built, Miles seeing baby Miles, etc.) what if the last LOST episode is the first episode played again, but they all remember and know what to do this time so with slight changes. I think my nose is bleeding...

So good to see Faraday again. Now we can expect to get more explanations about what the hell is going on with all the magnetic fields on the island.
and really, what lies in the shadow of the statue????

So good to see Faraday again. Now we can expect to get more explanations about what is going on with all the magnetic fields on the island.
and really, what lies in the shadow of the statue????

And how about the possible irony of future Miles being the reason that baby Miles is seperated from his father.

Remember the Chang video and the rabbits, he was really stressed about those two rabbits coming in contact with one another. Makes me wonder if he eventually figures out Miles is actually his son Miles from the future. So in an attempt to save his child, he sends his wife and son away from the island. Another Causal Loop, future Miles causing baby Miles to never know his father.

"The Sarcastic Ghost Whisperer passes his audition by "talking to" the guy who helped Widmore fake the Oceanic 911 crash site."

I don't think the dead guy helped Widmore, I think maybe he was blackmailing him re: the fake plane and bodies and thats why he was dead.

Loved when Jack was erasing the chalkboards and the information was all about Egypt. I think it said Early Egyptian, Middle Egyptian and a third I couldn't catch.

@ Mr. Factual - I said the same thing on the other post - maybe they can be together in the same time, but can't have contact with each other. I forgot about the bunny freak out though. Good call.

I really liked this episode!
It was great to finally get more info about Miles and his powers. Glad we got the confirmation that Dr. Chang is Miles father. That last scene when he saw himself as a baby was very touching.
Now that we see that the van people talking to Miles do not work for Widmore, I guess the work for Ben's side, unless there is a 3rd party waging war on the island.

@Mr. Factual - definitely an interesting idea, but doesn't it make more sense to send away the angry grown up son and keep the baby and wife around?

I'm thinking it may have something to do with discovering the "energy" or whatever electromagnet pulled the guy's filling through his brain..

I believe families are separated because of the inherent danger of what they've uncovered.

It's important to remember HOW dead guy died. His tooth (metal filling) punched a hole through his skull.

They have found the electro whatever (monstah) and it's none too stable.

Chang loves his family. He'll do whatever he can to keep them safe. Charlotte's dad is same. Likely others too.

We were told how this guy died for a reason.

@Mr. F - Daniel says 'change' which means not on your side... I think.

@jenn3 - confused because the whole naomi, what lies in the shadow of the statue, makes it less clear to me who works for who etc.

How awesome is it that the electromagnetic power is so great it takes the fillings right out of your teeth? Haha, I love it.

PS I'm just letting you guys hash out this time thing. Looks like you have it figured out with a few more tweaks perhaps. Great job!!

@powderpuff - exactly. I wrote it on both blogs... I'm glad someone else sees this possible connection

Ok from what I could tell, the guy in the van that grabbed Miles is one of Ben's people. Maybe Cesar was just some unlucky guy that bought a ticket on the wrong flight and thats why Ben killed him

Okay...I was thinking.. Since the hatch was just being built...something happened that made them push the button to release the pressure type thing...Okay what if what happened was so bad that he sent Miles and his mother away...AND what ever happened is why babies can't be born on the island!!!! WHAT DO YOU THINK????

I think the temple (ben's temple) is what lies in the shadow of the statue. Just a thought, I could be wrong. I loved last night's episode. It even made me laugh a little. I have always been curious to learn a little bit more about Miles, so I was happy with this episode. I just wish that Sawyer would get back with Kate...they belong together. And Juliet and Jack belong together. Sawyer is so effen hot, I would not be able to keep my hands off of him for that long if I were Kate-regardless of Juliet.

aaah! I'm trying to watch it online since I missed it last night but the ABC website isn't working and its' not up on hulu yet. Anyone have any suggestions?

@powderpuff, sure it makes more sense to send away future Miles, but come on this is LOST. But I admit, it is simply a theory of mine, nothing proven.

@fanolost, if you read it closely, Daniel is on billy and my side, but is starting to consider your side...lol! He starts off saying they all come back to play their roles. But then flips due to Hurley trying to get Miles talk to his dad.

For the record, I believe they are all their to play their roles, NOT to change a thing. But if anyone has the power to change something, I would bet the farm on Desmond. I am not stuck on past/future can't be changed as much as I am on it being someone very special to be able to change it. I don't believe just anyone travelling back can change something, which is why I say Hurley, Miles, Kate, Jack, etc.. are all merely fulfilling their roles in the past.

Daniel- Can you please call Kidnap guy "316 Hurley"? It just works for me.

Maybe the "hating fish taco" team is the Dharma initiative.
We know the Dharma people have off-island station(s), so maybe they weren't all wiped out in the purge.
Just a thought.

After seeing Chang with baby Miles, it really didn't make much sense to me why his Mom would say he didn't want to have anything to do with them.

But hearing the theory about wanting to keep baby Miles away from future Miles actually makes sense.

Mr Factual or someone - my mind is sluggish today and can't quite figure it out - Faraday says to Miles, Long time, no see - great closing moment! But where has Faraday been for the last three years - and how does that relate to him being hired for the freighter . . .

Does anyone remember if we see Dr. Chang die in the purge? They didn't address when/how he actually died last night. It's probably not important but I was just curious.

Faraday was probably doing something with his MOM!

Did anyone get a good look at the masked man in the van with Miles? I'm pretty sure it was Mr.Friendly. Just wondering....

@berky, nobody really knows where Daniel has been all this time. Hopefully we'll find out next week.

@berky, that is the question we are all trying to figure out, where has Faraday been? He was there in 1974 when time stopped skipping, but not shown there in 1977 when the O6 get there. I had guessed (opinion) he was in LA building the Lamp Post, the very clever man Eloise spoke of. But Chang said the scientist from Ann Arbor (Michigan), so I don't know.

As for your 2nd question, remember whatever happened, happened (can I get a WHH t-shirt please?). Faraday has already been on the freightor and visited the island. It is in his past now, like when Miles told Hurley that.

did you have to run to the bathroom from 9:51 until 9:55? you know you can pause tivo, right?

Faraday - wherever he has been (most recently in Ann Arbor) - he as come back with his mind more intact than when we last saw him.

I wrote on the other blog this morning if he went in search of an adolescent Des - and that unstuck his mind.

My apologizes and kudos to those of you who have been theorizing for months that Miles was Chang's baby. There was no way I was going with that, thought it was too obvious. Guess I over-estimated the writers creativity. That said, aren't Miles and Hugo the perfect Odd Couple. They should do a spin off show where they just discuss anything (movies, politics, sports.) I loved Miles alternately calling Hugo dimwit and nitwit. No creative Sawyeresque nicknames there. Just get to it slammin'.

@Ben, kidnap guy is actually named Bram. I guess I am board with Bram working for Ben, along with Illana. It would appear on the surfacr they oppose Widmore, so by default they are on Team Linus. Unless their is some mysterious 3rd party out there, but might be too late in the game to introduce a 3rd player.

Thanks to those who pointed out 3.2 million, the conversation Ben/Miles had while being held captive in the Barracks. That is double the amount Naomi offered on Widmores behalf.

Not to mention, Sayid wanted nothing to do with Ben so it would have been impossible to convince him to return. Makes sense Ben hired someone (Illana) to capture him and make him board the plane.

Something else that doesn't make sense...Why would Widmore care about the dead DI? He had no qualms about killing the army people in the 50's or sending Ben to kill Russeau in 88....Like I said above, something about Naomi's comments re: Widmore don't add up.

@fanolost, I really don't see Faraday needing a constant, his mind and body were never seperated like Desmond's was. There was some very unique circumstances that led to Desmond becoming special and needing a constant. I am struggling to find any relation with what Des experienced with what Faraday experienced. Faraday was in the same predicament as Juliet, Sawyer, and Miles and none of them needed a constant. Not saying you are wrong, just that I don't see it how you are seeing it.

Perhaps Miles tells his father about the purge to come and that they will all die in it. Then Chang sends his wife and baby Miles away on the pretext that he doesn't want them around anymore.

They can't change the fact that the purge will happen and Chang can't tell his wife the real reason.

Wow! Last night was a good episode. I laughed, I cried and if it weren't for Tivo, I would have peed my pants!:)

My theory the "What Lies in the shadow of the statue" people are Dharma 2.0 coming back for revenge and to take back the island.

I love Miles and I was so happy to get his story. I am sure his mother told him that his father didn't want anything to do with him to deter Miles from trying to find him, she was protecting him. I am sure they had to leave the island after "the incident"

Love love love that Daniel is back in body and mind. I have a small crush on that loveable nerd.

@Mr. F - Faraday's constant is Desmond, per his writings in his journal. Recall that he flipped through his journal on the beach during his Charlotte memory-test moments - and it is written there.

He indeed needed, and found his constant, one time. I believe he found him again.

And yes, his mind was faltering badly when last we saw him.

And I do believe his CONSTANT may have made a difference.

@Ben- I agree, I think team #3 (we now have round robin sudden death tournament here) is team DIK (Dharma Initiative Kids). When BRAM (short for Abraham ssarah, get busy with your biblical theory) was chatting with Miles, didn't you get the impression he was telling Miles that he was one of them. Miles could find out why he was special and all about his Dad. I think these are all the DI kids that were exiled before the purge. Maybe even lead by Chang/Candle/Halliwax. If Miles' Daddy is dead, I want to see the deed done before I believe it.

@Mr F-If they are the DIK's then its not really introducing a third party, because we know all about the DI. We know the DI didn't totally go away, remember that someone was still dropping supplies via parachute on occasion. Hanso's organization has to be out there as well. I'm thinking the DIK is lead by either Chang and/or Hanso (or still financed by Hanso.)

@fanolost, I recall Faraday writing it in his notebook/journal, I don't disagree with that. But just cause he wrote it down for future use doesn't imply this is what happened.

I guess we will have to agree to disagree. Faraday had just lost Charlotte, the love of his life. He just ended up stuck in 1974, he was a little on edge from the shock of it all. We have zero evidence of Faradays mind seperating from his body. So I am not ready to make such a huge leap. Guess we will see later on.

I love that Miles ran into his Mom in the DI cafeteria line. Only Miles could hold it together on that occasion. Anyone else would have freaked. I could help but think of Life on Mars when he meets his Mom and tells her he is Detective Luke Skywalker, because her 6 year old son, (him) has the same first and last name. Knowing Miles, he just avoided eye contact.

@Caz

Well, considering that Miles played Kid Omega in X-Men 3 (the kid with the porcupine spines that come out of his face)....the piercings and spiky hair in Lost took me back to that.

But yes, Rufio did come to mind, but the hair was about the only similarity there.

Faraday did write in his Notebook if anything happens to me Desmond Hume is my Constant. The only thing is was Faraday all messed up because of Charlotte dying or was he starting to loss his mind and needed to leave to find Desmond and get back on track?

Did he find Desmond and then go back to see his MOM and build the Lamp Post?

Did Faraday meet up with his Dad on this journey along with Mom and come up with some sort of plan?

I dont know just thought I would share?

@flashest, ahhh yes the Dharma folk, I like it. Well that definitely opens the possibility of the 3rd party. Thank you, I guess i had written them off after the Purge.

Of couse that puts me back on the fence about who they are working for now..

The episode SUCKED!!!!

@patrick -- from 9:51 - 9:55, ABC aired these things called commercials.

Part of me thinks that the dead people Naomi was referring to doesnt involve the purge. It just seems way too obvious. Although, so did the Miles/Chang situation. Any thoughts on other large groups of dead people that could be there?

@ Daniel- hahaha commercials. LMAO

I noticed the writings on the chalk board had to do with gods and Roger had said something about God when talking to Jack. Maybe a sort of confirmation that Jack's turning to a man of faith...the theme seems to be popping up everywhere around Jack.

@fanolost

I think you're spot on with Daniel going to find Des as a youth. They wouldn't have focused so intently on that part of Farraday's journal last season otherwise. When grown up Des goes to seek out Farraday at the University at the beginning of the season, things are all in shambles and dusty. Could Dan had done all his experiments back in the 70's before he came back to the island on the sub?
I'm probably way off here.

THE CLIPPERS GAME..OVER A NEW LOST... AS HURLEY WOULD "ARE YOU OKAY DUDE"

I'm starting to agree with others that maybe the unknown group are the Darma kids back to reclaim their island from Ben who they feel stole what was theirs during the purge. My only question is how and when they all (kids) got off the island and who they are working with that they were able to return, maybe Hawkins? She seems not to be on widmore or bens side to me. Maybe she is playing all of them so they can all try and kill off each other so she can have her son daniel run the island. Just rambling but hope i make sense.

@CAM- I like Dharma 2.0 much better than DIKs. I'm going with that from now on.

DIKs is unintentionally vulgar. =)

@betheaux Thanks for the XMEN confirmation my husband asked that last night and I said it looks like him but I'm not sure. I will tell him tonight when I get home from work!!!!

I don't think Faraday needed to go off island to find Desmond...he already spoke to Des on the island (when he knocked on the hatch) I think he was just messed up about Charlotte

@caz

Yes, yes and yes!!! LOL!

The last time we saw Daniel was after they first got to Darmatown and he saw Charlotte. There was a sub leaving the next day - he must have gotten on it. My question is Wou ld he be in 1976 Ann Arbor or 2004 Ann Arbor when he got off the sub?

It was so eerie last night, but when Miles showed up at his sick Mom's house with all of the earrings and piercings, I felt like I was looking in the mirror! Even thouugh we're all best buds on this blog, none of you have ever seen me. Well, if you picture Miles with the earrnings, you now know what duffy looks like!
I love all you guys like siblings!
duffy

Yes I love the idea of the DIK. It sounds like the new Power Rangers! LOL

Its Island Morphin Time!! LOL

@betheaux, Faraday was at Oxford University doing his time travel experiments in 1996. When Desmond (The Constant) was mind jumping between 1996/2004, he visited Faraday at Oxford in 1996.

When Des goes back to Oxford to find Faraday's mom, it is 2007. We know Faraday boarded the freightor in 2004, so he was long gone from Oxford by the time Desmond came to find him again. In 3 years the lab became dusty and forgotten, especially with it being off limits to everyone.

@Jenn3 I am with you on this one, I think Faraday was messed up at losing Charlotte. No constant needed (yet).

duffy, you are tooo cute!
Tasha

@mandy, in theory Faraday would be in 1974-1977 Ann Arbor time frame.

Yeah I agree Duffy you do sound cute!

I also think Juliet looks WAY pretty since she layed of the Island Botox!

Sarcastic Ghost Whisperer. Me like.

There is still that thing with the "bodies" about where they end up, and why the hostiles had take amy's boyfriends body back with them etc. I think that has something to do with Miles, he has to try and extract info from those bodies someway or another!
just a thought!

What I took from Naomi & Miles' convo was that Widmore was not responsible for the fake plane & the bodies discovered @ the bottom of the ocean...leaving Ben as the culprit. In a previous season (b/f Sayid was Ben's hired gun) Ben had a video of "one of Widmore's men" being killed...I don't remember the exact situation but I believe he was convincing the Losties that a very bad & powerful man named Widmore was to blame to cover up for himself. Ben had the man killed b/c possibly he was taking proof to Widmore to implement Ben...Why would Widmore need these photos & documents if he had the orginals...
2nd thought - I don't believe the "Shadow of the Statue" people work for Ben either...he was clearly surprised to see Sayid on the plane w/ Illana...maybe they are the kids of the Dharma men that were killed in the Purge coming back for revenge on Richard & the Others...that would explain why they hate Widmore since he was the leader @ that time. When Bram asked Miles "What lies in the Shadow..." it was like he expected Miles to know what he was talking about b/c Miles was an island child. Bram also said that he could tell Miles all about his father & what happened to him. Miles mother tried to protect her son from searching for the island by lying to him & saying his father abandoned him...similar to Charlotte's mom telling her that the island did not exist that she had made it all up in her head & should never speak of it again...just a thought
This may have already been posted by someone else or may not make a whole lot of sense...it's taken forever to type b/c I keep getting interrupted by work...oh the nerve

Hasn't the last 3 years been the time that Faraday was doing his experiments at the university with the mice???????

@*amy* Kudos for that post, nice theory, I like it...

@Lost Again... No. That was 1996 at Oxford.

Faraday we assume left in late 1974 or very early 1975, did he take the sub the following day or 2 weeks later like Horace offered to Sawyer?

And whatever happened, happened... Faraday already did the mice experiment BEFORE boarding the freightor. That event is in his past, just because he time travelled back doesn't mean he must relive his past. Whatever Faraday did prior to arrving on the island is already done, history.

wow awesome episode and what great birthday present that the blog was up so early!

first - did anyone else feel like there was more commercials than show last night?

second - many moons ago, i forget what episode, but (we now know) right after Miles was born, Dr. Chang had to go out to the donkey wheel station and Faraday was there in a construction worker's hat? Was that before or after last night's Faraday arriving on the sub? Maybe he became a scout for the DI on "special" talent to bring to the island.

third - i think the third party here has to be some sort of DI 2.0. who else would feel they had a claim/actually know about this crazy island?

Did no-one else catch Daniel's mistake when he mentioned "the guy who helped Widmore fake the Oceanic 911 crash site""
Ummmm, wouldn't that be the Oceanic 815 crash site????
Honestly, after 5 seasons,how could you make a mistake like that?

@*amy* It was always up in the air who faked the crash, either team Widmore or team Ben. I agree that the scene with Miles and Naomi did not confirmthat it was Widmore. However, I think its still up in the air as to who is responsible. Tom showed Michael documents that indicated it was Widmore. The Freighter captain showed Sayid and Des documents that it was Ben. What if it was a third party (Alvar Hanso & Dharma 2.0 stirring up both factions of the Others. I also agree with you that when Miles got into that van, it was like they were taking in one of their own. Has to be Dharma Kids.

@ VPrice5612

I agree Jack is becoming a man of faith. Faith in what, I don't know. I commented last night that he was very "Locke-like" in the way he talked to Ben's dad.

If Ilana and friends are Dharma Kids or 2.0, wouldn't their enemy (one of them) be Ben? Surely they would know who he is. Yet they have the perfect opportunity to capture/kill him and they don't. Why would they leave him to his own devices on "his" island? If they work for Widmore (which doesn't seem likely after last night's episode), wouldn't they also know who Ben is and want him dead or captured? It seems to me, that only leaves Ben for them to be working for. I know I am repeating myself (from my posts of yesterday and last Sunday), but Ben would not leave Ilana and friends with guns and the crate unless he knew what was in the crate and where they were taking it. He isn't that sloppy or careless.

I LOVED when Hurley, Miles and Dr Chang were in the van and Hurley was trying to mess with Miles and pushing the daddy issue.

"So, what's your son's name?"

"Miles"

"Ohhh well, that's YOUR name, huh Miles"?

The look on Miles's face was like, "Will you SHUT UP!"

@*amy* re-read your post again. Lots of good stuff in there. We can assume that miles probably didn't know the answer to the riddle because he left the island at an early age (also didn't have a memory for it.) Here's a question: Why would Dharma 2.0 throw that question out to Lapidus? We know that Charlotte, Miles and Daniel all had pervious ties to the island (Daniel son of Eloise, could have been born there, we know that Miles and Charlotte were kids there.) What about Lapidus? He could have been picked for the mission as well because he was a former DI kid. Maybe BRAM and ILIANA knew this as well and threw the secret decoder saying at him to test him. I'm kind of on the fence on this, but it could be possible. Otherwise he would be the only member of Naomi's team that didn't have DI ties. (Remember also, he was supposed to be the pilot of that plane, that was his destiny that he has been course correcting ever since.)

Both my sister and sister-in-law have both recently mistaken other people for me even when up close and personal. Maybe my future self has come back in time to correct something. Does this mean I eventually get to go to the island?!? HA!

What if the riddle is something that the DI taught the kids in school? They seem to be learning alot about the Egyptian History is class and the Statue is Egyptian.

@greenbat, Okay, flip it sideways and look at it another way. Ben is a Dharma kid. He may even know Bram and Iliana from the island days. He is on record as not ordering the purge (did kill his Dad, but who wouldn't). Could he be aligned with DI 2.0 against Widmore? Maybe not their leader but an agent working for them. We assumed that Jill the butcher and others working stateside were Others, maybe they were DI 2.0?

I agree with the third party being pissed off Dharma. They must be out there, and Miles would be on their side cause those are his people. Also, it seemed like dead Horace was helping Locke, in a past episode. IDK how all of this comes together but there's got to be someone messing things up with Smokie manifestations. I read on Lostpedia that Ben seeing his mom was not smokie, so then who/what was it? I believe there are more than just Widmore and Ben fighting for this island.

Does the 3.2 million amount sound familiar? I can't remember the episode or Season, but wasn't someone being held hostage in a basement and the captor (Ben??) wanted exactly 3.2 million in ransom? I'm foggy on the details, does anyone remember this?

That was Miles wanting twice the amount Naomi offered him. He was held by Locke for a while.

@ No constant needed (yet).

Posted by: Mr Factual | April 16, 2009 07:48 AM

I think he already needed and made contact with his constant when he knocked on the hatch door and talked to Des

Yes Melissa, Miles told Ben he would let him go for 3.2 Million, double the amount Widemore was paying Miles to go to the island.

Locke had Ben held captive when all of them were leaving in the Barracks and Miles wanted to talk to Ben.

I think it was more a B-.

I really like Miles/Hurley friendship. As for the darth vader reference specifically to miles it seemed a stretch but if you compare the whole good v evil struggle to the island struggle its not so bad. Maybe the reference was to say they are there to PREVENT the death star from being destroyed before it gets to the point of where the losties originally entered the picture. if its possible that is.

My favorite line of the night is when hurley asked miles how he knew it was his dad, miles said "my first clue is when my mom got in line behind me in the cafeteria"

I think it was also confirmed that Jack and Kate are meant to be just like we confirmed last week that Sawyer and Juliet are solid. When Roger Linus starts talking about Kate that way Jack looked like he wanted to beat him up.

Faraday is back from off the island! My previous theory has ben blown out of the water I guess.

Finally remember that the hostiles also referred to Ann Arbor - where they referring to DI or do they have their own team back at Ann Arbor?

Teams...rules....what kind of game is this?

Mr. F - DES IS FARADAY's constant.

@beth... yes. He needs the constant Again because things are NOT THE SAME, because the losties HAVE CHANGED things, or are about to.

Whew, thanks. That's been bugging me all morning, but I couldn't remember all the players involved, but it's been stuck in my head.

VERY entertaining blog this week Daniel!

"Horace is going to write mean things about Miles in his slam book."

"Miles is The Sarcastic Ghost Whisperer."

..... LMAO!!

Amy - I agree with almost everything in you ~*amy*~ | April 16, 2009 07:56 AM
post except, I thought maybe the guy showed Widmore the pictures because he was blackmailing Widmore.

Remember MR. Friendly showed Michael the same pictures and said Widmore was responsible. I'm basing my opinion off of that just another example of It Depends....on who you trust.

I'm not sure I know what scene you were talking about, I don't think it was a Widmore guy getting beaten up, I thought it was Widmore standing outside the limo having some guy beat up. Maybe we are talking about 2 different scenes tho. :)

Thanks Mr. Factual...coming from you that is an honor! & flashest monk...I do like that idea about the third party being responsible...that would throw a wrench in to it b/c Widmore & Linus are both pointing the finger @ each other but what would this 3rd party gain from it...what would be their motive & how would they even know about 815 crashing on the island? Unless you throw in E. Hawkins as someone had suggested earlier....hmm interesting!

I love the references of teen age Miles to Ruffio from the Peter Pan movie. I got my own weird reference from watching Milesgo from a kid in flashbacks to being close in age to his parents now and seeing himself as a baby. Any body remeber the movie The Stupids (a kids movie and I had young kids at the time). In it, Tom Arnold sings this song called `I'm My Own Grandpa' which if you pay attention to the lyrics makes sense because of divorce and remarriage he ends up his own granpa! I know this reference is a stretch but sometimes Lost is to. Miles and Hurley are my second favorite couple, first is Ben and Locke.

I love the references of teen age Miles to Ruffio from the Peter Pan movie. I got my own weird reference from watching Milesgo from a kid in flashbacks to being close in age to his parents now and seeing himself as a baby. Any body remeber the movie The Stupids (a kids movie and I had young kids at the time). In it, Tom Arnold sings this song called `I'm My Own Grandpa' which if you pay attention to the lyrics makes sense because of divorce and remarriage he ends up his own granpa! I know this reference is a stretch but sometimes Lost is to. Miles and Hurley are my second favorite couple, first is Ben and Locke.

@greenbat the purge doesn't happen for several years ben is still a child.

I thought of two things last night.
1.Circle of trust reminds me of Jack Burns from "Meet the Parents/Fockers
2.Banarang!!!
I Giggled everytime I heard the circle of trust. Miles looked so much like Rufio I said Bangarang to my boyfriend and he knew exactly what I was talking about.

@Yoga53- Haha, I know what song you're talking about. It NEVER made sense to me, but it was catchy. When applying it is LOST- I can get it!

I thought of two things last night.
1.Circle of trust reminds me of Jack Burns from "Meet the Parents/Fockers
2.Banarang!!!
I Giggled everytime I heard the circle of trust. Miles looked so much like Rufio I said Bangarang to my boyfriend and he knew exactly what I was talking about.

@flashest monk, you could be right that Ben is aligned with Ilana, Bram, etc. rather than working for Ben.

If they are Dharma Kids, I wouldn't think that they would be that trusting of Ben after his betrayal of the DI even if they thought Widmore gave the order for the actual purge. They would still have plenty to be upset about with Ben.

@Jenn3- got you say, when Miles and Hurley were comparing their "I see dead people" powers, I was trying to determine where they fit on Jenn3's chart of visions, hallucinations and Smokie manifestations. Hope you are keeping a Faraday-style notebook with this stuff.

flashest monk - HA HA HA! Miles might have to be his own category or in the category with the whispers. Not sure yet...as usual :)

@Greenbat- I'm not married to the theory, but its possible. Afterall, the enemy of my enemy is my friend, and they both have a formidable enemy in Widmore. Ben would have had three years to make a connect and formulate a plan stateside (while Sayid was knocking off Widmore people.) Ben may have been cut off from resources after leaving the island and forced to make an unholy alliance.

Brahm is mr friendly's son.

@mlm - HAPPY BIRTHDAY...

And I too am wondering about a third (can I say game of RISK enough) party in all of this?

BTW - I never thought it wasn't Widmore who faked the debris at the bottom of the ocean...

If I had to choose dead-people powers, I'd go with Hurley's. I wish he'd have a Libby sighting soon for some lovin. I was hoping for more from a Miles episode. I remember Miles met smokie when Ben summoned it for the mercenaries, but I wanted them to be formally introduced.

BTW - I never thought it wasn't Widmore who faked the debris at the bottom of the ocean...

Posted by: fanolost | April 16, 2009 09:11 AM

THATS BECAUSE YOU ARE ON THE BENWAGON ALL THE WAY!

Speaking of the Benwagon, what happened to Tootsie?

@Jenn3- If forced to theorize on Hurley's powers versus Miles, I would say that Miles' powers came from exposure to electromagneticism (I think that is what Bram was trying to tell him. You are special because of your exposure while on the island- maybe other DI kids are mutants as well?) In Hurley's case, I just re-watched the "Dave" episode (Hurley's imaginary friend where Libby had to stop Hurley from jumping off a cliff.) Hurley is just nuts. I don't think he is really seeing anyone.

So I guess I'm choosing insanity!

What an insight into Hurley's personality. If you were suddenly pushed 30 years into the past and wanted to use the knowledge, you could do all kinds of selfish or humanitarian things. Hurley decides he wants to improve Star Wars- go figure?

Gotta love Hurley.

good catch glee @ 847 maybe the hostiles have infiltrated every facet of the DI.

and as some of you are saying if so many DI people are off island at any given time it makes sense that there are some left working to get the island back, namely the kids either wanting revenge or to find out what happened their parents.

flashest monk - you might be right, I didn't consider the crazy factor!

Speaking of Hurley's visions...Didn't Charlie say I'm both dead and I'm here or something like that? I wonder if/how that works into last week's Dead is Dead episode

@flashest monk - I gather you don't believe in mediums and such?

While it's interesting about Miles and electro... and mediums have a field around them (blow out light bulbs, at home and on the highway, etc.) I want to say I think this is just Miles.

Then again, if Chang feared for the family - it could be everyone got exposed to something.

@jenn3 - BENWAGON... is that it? HA

@ lostaroo

I thought mr friendly played for the other team. Remember the scene they showed with him and his boyfriend.

@ambrosia- Maybe its like the Matrix where Cypher chose to betray Neo to agent Smith and as a reward got to go back to living in the illusion of the Matrix which was better than the reality of life after the holocaust caused by the machines. A lot of "mental illness" like disassociation is a coping mechanism from some traumatic event. So I say go for it, choose hallucination (fanolost can maybe hook you up with some 'srooms and orange juice?)

@ fanolost - THANKS!! :o)

Do we know how the bodies came to be in the fake Oceanic 815 plane, as far as where they came from? Also, where did the Ajira flight crash? Island or water or unknown? Seeing as that crash propelled Jack, Kate, Hurley and Sayid into the past, maybe the plane went to the past (as it would still be there in the present) and that's the plane WHOEVER planted in the ocean as 815 used.

Wow. I confused myself just writing that.

@JohnsMomLuvinLost - Maybe Tom played for both teams? He looked pathetic throwing a football to Jack when Jack was living with the Others, but this morning I saw Tom throw a mean bolo to catch Michael when Michael came looking at the Other camp for Walt.

@mlm - yeah, they dug up graves in Thailand or some southasian area and placed them in the fake plane.

Ajira crashed on Hydra - the sister island to 'the island' and the one that housed the polar bears, etc. and is where Ben had his operation, and Sawyer and Kate were caged.

That's really interesting regarding using Ajira to fake the O6 crash - but I think they're in the present time - 3 years after the O6 crash... so unless this person can take the whole thing and make it go into the past...

We see some of the plane on Hydra... whereas, I believe the fake O6 was 'intact.'

JohnsMomLuvinLost (just kidding, I remember when Tom told Kate she wasn't his type, that sealed it for me.)

@fanolost, no need to SHOUT, I already agreed to what Faraday wrote in his notebook. Desmond David Hume is my Constant. But being his constant and needing a constant are completely seperate.

Penny was Desmond's constant, but he never needed a constant until a combination of unique circumstances happened to him. None of which have we been show happening to Faraday, which is why I refuse to make the leap. You are free to do so, I already agreed to disagree with you.

And do I sense some wavering in your theory? You said "Again because things are NOT THE SAME, because the losties HAVE CHANGED things, or are about to." Which is it? If they are about to, then why would Faraday need a constant if nothing was changed yet? I am not trying to attack you, I am willing to come on board if you can patch up the holes I see in your theory. Again, not saying you are wrong, I just dont see the evidence to support it yet. All you have right now is what Faraday wrote in his book.

[puts on Whatever Happened, Happened t-shirt]

@Jenn3, I have my doubts about Faraday/Des meeting during the skipping being a "Constant" type moment. Faraday was fine then, he only got messed up when Charlotte died. So I am not sold on this connection yet.

I do think The Constant will come into play later, most likely next season. The writers put it in there for a reason, I just don't think this is the reason. And more then likely it will involve Faraday, since he wrote it in his journal.

@fanolost- I don't think that its mutually exclusive. Miles could have been pre-disposed to having extra sensory perception and that ability was magnified by exposure on the island. Also, do you remember Charlotte and Faraday doing a thing with three cards face down and Daniel trying to identify the cards. Makes me wonder i he also has some ESP ability from either island exposure or, more likely, radiation exposure from his experiments at Oxford.

I bet that Jughead lies in the shadow of the statue and the SERIES (not season) finale will be that they detonate it and the island blows up. Done and Done! Great episode btw, I like reading everyone's theories.

My whole family thinks that Miles looks like Jon from 'Jon and Kate Plus Eight'.

I'm here Mr. F

Haven't read through the posts yet. But I did see a little chatter about Daniel's comments re: can that change the past or not. I didn't see any evidence that says that they can change the past. Hurley ranting about Miles being able to get to know his dad as an adult could have very little effect on what happens to baby Miles. Miles said that no matter what happened, he wouldn't be able to save his father's life. So, idk. I thought it was a pretty good episode. Not a major game changer, but it was entertaining throughout and nothing silly.

@ Mr. Factual - [puts on Whatever Happened, Happened t-shirt] LOL!

IMO b/c Faraday made contact with Des during the skipping thats why he didn't get the nose bleed and headache symptoms. But I agree he wasn't having 1999/2004 Des symptoms. I guess what I'm saying is that I think it was a pre-emptory Constant moment.

And I agree that he was messed up in 1974 b/c Charlotte died.

@flashest monk - yep... I do wonder if Faraday wasn't working on something with those cards (other than trying to keep his sanity).

@Mr. F - um, Faraday needed a constant because he was losing his mind during the skipping (sort of how he was when he arrived on island, but more extreme). So I truly believe he has seen Des in the 1970s.

No waivering. Sorry.

I think the losties being in the past is a 'change' - and it's begun - if you're asking for the 'it' of it all?

Don't know if 'it' is Roger, don't know if it is Miles for messing up with the tape and so all the losties are exposed.

billy, even if miles does make contact with his dad who says he's changing anything...if whatever happened happened, in which i'm a believer, then if miles gets in touch with his dad its because he always did.

One thing that keeps bothering me. When the O-6 came back to civilization, did no one question the fact that a plane was found at the bottom of the ocean with ALL the bodies still on it?

@bigred - Ken L. has way more hair than Jon - even after the hair transplant. Just sayin... and if it's because they are both Korean, well, ok then...

now I think this whole episode is just making me go 'shoot, more questions...'

@jenn3 - are you starting to confuse what you know via spoilers with what we see?

@buttercup, no billy is with you on that whatever happened, happened. I believe he was just commenting on Daniel's comments about Hurley and Miles conversation. Billy and I have been trumpeting it for a while now, the LOSTies are just fulfilling the roles they already played, nothing has changed.

@bigred - that's a really good observation. I don't remember is they claimed all passengers because they counted them all or because they assumed....

Did anyone else catch that they were doing experiments with the polar bear poo? I've always wondered WHY the DI chose polar bears. Lostpedia says they wanted to make them adaptable to warm weather, but why? That seems like a weird animal to want to screw around with.

fanolost - I don't think so. Not sure what you are talking about?

Ya know I'm at least satisfied that Hurley and Miles are talking about the weird stuff, which no one does on this show. And with all the DI kids hopping around I can't help but see this as one huge episode of Scooby Doo.

@bigred, they assumed ALL the bodies were in the fake plane in the trench. It was too deep to bring it up to the surface and to do a full inspection.

That is why Penny had to sail the O6 to a different part of the ocean, closer to the fake site. So they could claim they survived the (fake) crash.

@jenn3 - I, we, know things that are upcoming, so I'm starting to try to connect the 'not yet' dots. My bad.

@ambrosia - shcruby doo! ruh roh, hee

you were at a basketball game and didnt get home till 11 pm?? you poor thing..good thing you live in the west coast because NY would eat you up if its tough for you to stay up till 11 on a weeknight..

Thanks Mr. Factual. I had assumed since they had camera footage of the wreckage that they'd actually had the camera check out the entire plane, but they probably didn't.

@ fanolost - I don't think it was me that said not yet about anything. I think it was Mr. Factual and I think he was just saying something did not maybe would not happen and qualified it with a at least not yet. (re: Faraday needing a Constant)
If I'm wrong Mr. Factual, my apologies.

I don't think it was spoiler connected.

@jenn3, I think you got it right no apologies. My "yet" is completely a guess on my part, I assume the constant will come into play later, while others feel it already did happen when Dan was away.

Okay, okay I hate it when people say they haven't read any posts and then post anyway, so I am a hypocrite. Forgive me if this has been said in the last 175 posts but I think there are three distinct groups- mystical, original Egyptians ala Richard and the new "what lies in the shadow of the statute" people, the Black Rock people, ala Widmore and his descendants, and Dharma. I will expand more on why and how shortly but wanted to put it out there before my brain exploded. The new group clearly doesn't work for Widmore or why would they try to dissuade Miles and I really don't think they work for Ben.

@jenn3 - I think you've misunderstood...

this has to do with 'us knowing' some stuff off *spoiler* sites and, at least for me, I'm starting to include those 'not yet' items...

@BigRed, no worries I often need help of others here to keep my thoughts in line. Lots of stuff going on for over 4+ seasons... lol!

It was basically "The Lie" (season 5) and "No Place like Home" (end seas 4). They had to lie about it to protect the people on the island from Widmore, at least that is what Jack believed. During the press conference for the O6 they talked about crashing in the water, using seat pads to stay afloat. The tide pushed them toward some small island near the fake crash site. Remember when they left Penny's boat they put them in some tiny inflatable raft and sent them on their way.

I think the underwater cameras captured the plane #815 and saw dead passengers inside, that was good enough. It fell in some trench, very deep in the ocean. Whomever (Ben, Widmore) put it there did so, knowing it couldn't be inspected or raised.

@yet another jen - well then, I suppose I always had 3 groups too!!!

But I think there's another third (so 4th) in play - from the mainland (Eloise or something else???)

i know mr. f. i was trying to agree with billy but he said "Hurley ranting about Miles being able to get to know his dad as an adult could have very little effect on what happens to baby Miles." and i was just clarifying that i think if he does then it was, so the effect on baby miles isnt the point.

@buttercup, right on and welcome aboard the WHH express.

The last person I am listening to on time travel is Hurley. To me, Hurley is the embodiment of the audiences questions. And Miles/Faraday are the writers way of explaining the rules of time travel on LOST. Just my opinion of course.

Now if Hurley suddenly starts to disappear alo Back to the Future, then maybe I will change my tune...LOL!

Okay great Mr. Factual. I always get a little nervous speaking on behalf of someone else b/c I don't want to put words in their mouth.

I guess we all have more to talk about this episode than we thought we would.

Ceasar is listed in the "missing or unknown" category on lostpedia. My guess is that he is not dead, and will continue to be a key player in this game.

ahhhh fanolost - I get it now, it was just a be careful type of thing. I don't really know any spoilers. I don't read the juicy ones I usually just read ones about the upcoming episode.

Just wondering... if anyone here thinks that Farraday's notebook is the First Mate's notebook from the Black Rock that Widmore was trying to buy at the auction back when???? Like.. maybe Daniel went WAAAAY back in time.... I don't know... I just have been thinking about that for a long time... I thought it was interest that the First Mate's notebook was pointed out... and Daniels notebook has been so prominent... its possible.. right????

In regards to Ann Arbor, Michigan (home of the Wolverines!)...

So Faraday was in Ann Arbor for a period of time somewhere around 1975-1977 range. What are the chances he met up with two of the original Dharma scientists from the fist Orientation video?

Gerald and Karen DeGroot, They both were doctoral candidates at the University of Michigan, as seen in the Swan and Pearl Orientation films. Hmmmm.

I love hurley, but I think i'm getting burned out on him,

I love hurley, but I think i'm getting burned out on him,

@ANONNIE, anything is possible I guess, but I don't find it very probable.

I think the auction house would have known the difference from a journal of the first mate and a journal from a physicist. I tend to believe the first mate wrote about their journeys, routes travelled, this mysterious island, and other sea related info.

Where as Faraday's book would have no such references to nautical type things. Given what we currently know at the moment, I would bet on NO, not the same. Just my opinion only.

I love reading this blog- it always makes me think more. I don't notice most of this stuff when watching!

According to Doctor Who, one can not travel in time and meet their former selves if they are younger. He called it a paradox. The reason it was so dangerous was because you could change your own history and birth. Therefore eliminating what the universe designed. Only the Doctor could do that because he was a Time Lord. This is how I explain the bunnies and may be what lies ahead with Miles. Thank God for my Doctor Who viewing. Although I am worried that the writers of Lost are watching Dr. Who as well because all my Lost theories tend to be right lately.

I think Ilana and Bram are working for Alvar Hanso. I think Hanso is trying to bring back the Dharma Intitiave which would explain the ARG last summer.

So there is Alvar's team, Widmore's team and Ben's Island. I don't think Ben or Widmore know that Alvar is coming back. Alvar Hanso is the descendent of the person who ran the Black Rock. Magnus Hanso.

@ fanlost's first pos - my thoughts exactly.

werid how Miles was able to see his baby self. Do you think thats just cause the baby/him are on the island? Like if Jack (or someone around his age) somehow went from the 70's island to the 70's "real world" would he also see his baby/toddler/young self?????

I think Ilana and Bram are working for Alvar Hanso. I think Hanso is trying to bring back the Dharma Intitiave which would explain the ARG last summer.

So there is Alvar's team, Widmore's team and Ben's Island. I don't think Ben or Widmore know that Alvar is coming back. Alvar Hanso is the descendent of the person who ran the Black Rock. Magnus Hanso.

OK maybe I am crazy but I thought I remembered seeing Daniel fixing autos with Juliette when Horaces wife went into labor. Am I wrong? And if so, aren't there now 2 Daniels on the island?

I'm assuming dead Alvarez died from the electromagnetic radiation that leads to the Swan station being built there? I'm also thinking they took his dead body into the Orchid to make it (somehow) turn the donkey wheel so they can see where it goes? Dr. Chang KNOWS about the time travel, so it would make sense they need to test rabbits, then dead people and then... perhaps little charlotte, miles, other kids/people that left the island before the purge was the "final" test for the DI?? Charlotte was in the desert in that one episode and found the polar bear fossil, so maybe she rememberd being thrown into the desert when they left the island??? just thoughts...

@Tara - according to 'Life on Mars' one can do just that - meet oneself. So these theories are all over the place.

By Miles simply looking at himself - I think it's safe that if he held himself, the world would not implode.

I also think the First Mate on Black Rock is someone we know...

@Tara - Hanso could be the 4th group... for me - and perhaps Eloise is in with them...

@isadora - Charlotte remembered the DI collar around the polar bear...

But I like the dead person in portal theory, alot.

@stacy - Faraday is referred to in by the 70s losties as 'not around.' I think he left the island and has returned. One person.

This ep was not the most amazing of the season, but I was thrilled that there was finally a Miles centric episode. He is for me, one of the most interesting characters and looks way better without spikey hair (haha!) How cute was mini Miles?

I am, at this point, so confused about how many actual "teams" there are in this upcoming war that they've been hinting at. I thought that maybe Ben was on the same side as Ilana/Bram, but now I'm not so sure. And does anyone think that Bram looks like Seth Rogan? Before Seth got slim that is?

@Tara, there is quite a long list of various paradoxes. Interested to know which one your Dr Who is referring to.

I would also be careful to apply to much of what Dr Who uses to what LOST is using in their version of time travel. I believe CC/DL have their own set of rules in rgeards to how LOST plans to use time travel.

See the Novikov self-consistency principle and Kip S. Thorne for one view on how backwards time travel could be possible without a danger of paradoxes. According to this hypothesis, the only possible timelines are those which are entirely self-consistent, so that anything a time traveler does in the past must have been part of history all along, and the time traveler can never do anything to prevent the trip back in time from being made since this would represent an inconsistency. In laymen's terms, this is often called destiny, and it is sometimes unpopular because it contradicts the "common sense" notion that people choose their own fates.

@fanlost

sorry, i forgot she got all excitied about the DI collar.

i want to know how Farady left the island in the 70's.
Wait, didnt' we see him at the end of an episode either this or last season, when he is wearing a white biohazard suit with a DI badge on it, and was all hiding his face, looking all nervous?

dude, ben is totally in it with ilana...he's way too controlling to allow them to have a cache full of guns and not be interested in what they planned on doing with them unless he already knew...he just walks away with a "have a nice day!" and no other questions, right. they might not be working for ben, but that doesnt mean ben doesnt know exactly what they're up to...

@flashest monk... Hurley is also using his culinary skills to prepare delicious sauces (garlic & mayo) that he probably pick up from his Mother.

I too believe that widmore wasnt responsible for the plane at the bottom of the ocean. I think the scene with naomi and miles was a very important one and revealed a lot. When miles was reading the deceased guy my take on it was that this dead person was bringing the evidence to widmore that the plane crash was a fake and was maybe killed before he actually got to widmore, by either ben or our 3rd group trying to get back to the island.

Also the conversation miles and naomi had was very interesting. She mentioned he was needed to help with all of the dead bodies "residing" on the island. This was mentioned on another site and I found it interesting that she used the word residind. I think this goes back to our UNDEAD category that some of the people are really dead but the island makes them UNDEAD.

Umm this is a TV show and so is Doctor Who. These are the only two shows that I have ever watched dealing with time travel.

In terms of Doctor Who there are several episodes spanning over 40 years. I have been watching this show since I was a little girl. In the newer version there would be "Father's Day" with the 9th Doctor and The last three episodes with the Master with the 10th Doctor and companion Martha.

I am sure the writers are Lost are being creative. All I am saying is that most of my predictions in the time travel part of the story has come true because of watching Dr. Who. I never watched Life on Mars but in theory these are TV shows and not based in reality so they can take any form they like. My background in Doctor Who has allowed me to understand this angle in Lost.

@isadora, don't we all..LOL!

Our best guess at the moment is Faraday opted to take the sub trip back to the States. Horace was going to make them all leave on it the next day (1974) when they got caught by Dharma and the fence. Or maybe he took the one that was coming 2 weeks later, the one Horace said Sawyer could take giving him time to look for his shipwrecked crew.

That scene in the Orchid with Faraday appearing to work for Dharma, is it coming up or did it already happen? I am not ready to state which one yet, as I am unsure exactly when it takes place.

@Tara, I am not saying Dr Who is bad or wrong, just that it is not identical to LOST.

DL/CC have tried to state that everything can be explained via psuedoscience and that their version of time travel would attempt to be paradox free (if possible). They actually took a shot at Heroes for they way they handled time travel in that TV show.

Dr Who, LOST, Heroes, Life on Mars, Quantam Leap, etc... TV shows that dealt with time travel in their seperate ways. As did movies like Donnie Darko, Back to the Furture, Deja Vu, Red Dwarf, etc...

Faraday appeared inside the Orchid station and brushed by Chang in the first episode of this season.

I always thought that he was investigating the electromagnetic source and not working for DI. He was trying to hide his face from Chang.

@Tara- I'm with you on the Alvar Hanso thing. I don't think that Dharma 2.0 could do what they need to do without financing.

@Mr F. Its precisely Ann Arbor that makes me believe that Dharma never completely went away. Unless the Others purged Ann Arbor as well wouldn't headquarters still exist. What about the food drops we saw in season 2? Who was doing that, it still was Dharma branded stuff.

@fanolost- I'm still puzzled by Eloise's involvement (she is a mystery girl.) Not sure if I would put her on any side as yet. After the purge and before the recent episode, it looked more like a Civil War (Widmore vs Ben with possibly Eloise as neutral) now with team BRAM/Iliana in play, who knows. Its confusing.

I haven't read everything yet. Work is getting in my way but I wanted to post this before I get too far into the day. I mentioned last week on that I did not think that Ilana and Caeser were working for Widmore because of how they were treating Locke. I was thinking that maybe they were working for Ben, but after Ben shot Caeser that didn't make any sense. I am wondering if there is another group and maybe Widmore and Ben are both on the Island/Others side and the 316ers are on maybe Dharma's side. I konw Ben and Widmore don't get along, but maybe they are still on the same side in this war. Ben is supposed to follow Locke and Widmore is also on Locke's side. What do all of you think?

I don't think Bram and Illana could be working with/for Ben because they didn't seem to recogize him or anything when he was passed out and then walking around their beach.

I wouldn't be surprised if Charlotte and others we know were used for experimenting with the time travel in the testing phases.

I also wouldn't be surprised if the writers are leading towards a way for everyone to resolve their father issues.

Notice how Bram and Illana ask people the riddle "What lies in the shadow of the statue?"...? This gives me the impression that they don't know who is and isn't on their team, so they answer to someone high up. By asking that question, they know who else has the same boss.

I don't know what that question could pertain to yet... the 4 toed statue is of course the first thing that comes to mind, but it could be easily unrealted to that of course.

@yet another jen (10:00)

maybe we are all making the mistake that these people work for ben or widmore. we know that some people definitely work for widmore and we know that some people have worked for or with ben.

ben might just have been an island leader and a henchman of jacob. maybe those people work for jacob but just play different roles just like eloise who obviously does not work for ben.

@sk I would agree Hurley is using skill learned from Mom and from previous fast food restaurants (Clucky Chicken?) I don't think the dude has the most discriminating pallete. I just watched that Dave episode and he was slathering whole handfuls of ranch dressing and peanut butter into his mouth. I think its quantity over quality with Hugo. (I do love his Mom, my favorite quote after she asked Hurley who the dead "Pakistani" was in her couch was "A good man doesn't kill three people." My sentiments about all the human carnage on LOST by our lovable characters.

Also what is the role of the military here? Ann Arbor is a huge navy town (subs people subs!) and remember miles encountered (so he said) a fresh grave of dead US soldiers during one of those time flashes)

Also what is the role of the military here? Ann Arbor is a huge navy town (subs people subs!) and remember miles encountered (so he said) a fresh grave of dead US soldiers during one of those time flashes...

@flashest monk
Good call on the food drops! I forgot about that.

used to be a navy town I believe had a friend from there

ah its still is check this out...

go work on nuclear subs i ann arbor michigan!

http://jobview.monster.com/GetJob.aspx?JobID=79187509&WT.mc_n=jobscomview

@CallK, I am not sure who Illana and Bram work for yet either. Some good theories posted here have me rethinking some things.

But I wouldn't be so quick to discount Ben, simply cause they dont recognize him. I would guess that is how Ben would have set it up, maybe even thru his attorney. Hire 4 people, give them a secret code so they know who it is they are working with, and tell them to meet up at the destination. Keeps Ben in the free and clear from questions.

But that is all speculation for now, just didn't want you to dismiss Ben yet.

@glee

We know the US army was on the island at one point during Jughead era. Richard's people mistook the flashing losties for them. Could they be involved in the time travel experimentation? Funding? Using soldiers as test subjects?

That was me. Forgot my name.

Anyone notice Juliet had a red shirt on?

I think the question "what lies in the shadow of the statue?" is something that the darma kids should know. Remember when they asked miles the question when they took him into that van and he didnt know the answer and they said he wasnt ready. The reason I think he wasnt ready is because he hasnt had the training and full knowledge of what the island is all about because he was taken away from the island by his mother and it was never talked about until he was older.

"What lies in the shadow of the statue?" could just be a code. Like the kind your mom gave you when you were little so you would know who to ride home with. If the person knows the answer, they are ok.

whoah they really do electromagnetic research in ann arbor!!!

Electromagnetic Structure Resonances in Inhomogeneous Plasma Layers
http://prola.aps.org/abstract/PRL/v40/i1/p30_1

there are sooo many of these types of studies!

@Flashest monk - Let's not forget PORTLAND. I think they're all tied in - somehow.

@anon - if only a red shirt meant she's gone - that would pretty much make my week perfect... yep... buh-bye juliet...

@johnsmom - you know, I'm wondering if those kids didn't make it up 'what lies in the shadow of the statue.' Will we find a toy? Will we find Annie's body? Was that their code for something?

I'm sorry but am I missing something with the red shirt?

I'm sorry but am I missing something with the red shirt?

Wow I would want to go read this one but it would probably go over my head.

Postow E and Swicord ML.
"Modulated Fields and "Window" Effects" In: Polk C and Postow E (eds.) CRC Handbook of Biological Effects of Electromagnetic Fields CRC Press, Boca Raton, Ann Arbor, p 425-60, 1986.

@ fanolost

There are some theories that lost is one big game. Maybe once you answer the question you get to move on to the next stage of the game. lol

fukin A there is a real Faraday! who worked on electicomagnetism and was english?!?!

did someone already point this out before and I missed it?

Michael Faraday studied the nature of electricity. Born on September 22, 1791, this famous English physicist and chemist is best remembered for his understanding of electromagnetism.

http://www.ntesla.org/provide_p.12.html
http://sln.fi.edu/franklin/scientst/faraday.html

@LinJoe00, in regards to the "redshirts", it is a throwback to Star Trek. Whenever they sent a crew down to explore a new planet, the main stars were in blue shirts and Kirk had his gold one. The red shirts were usually extras who ended up getting killed.

@Mr.Factual-thank you. I never got into Star Trek/Star Wars...too young maybe...I get it now though, thank you! I have read a lot of posts referencing the shows, and of course Hurley's chatter about it. I know the "Luke, I am your father" storyline but past that I dont have a clue.

Maybe the question "What lies in the shadow of the statue" means something different. Maybe Smokie is the shadow. And non-believers lie.
So when a non-believe or an un-clean person, or a bad person is surrounded by smokie, they lie.
Or maybe their lies are judged.

Or maybe, Its a statement, not a question. "Behold! What LIES in the shadow of the statue!!!" I don't know, just wandering out loud and really rambling. sorry.

Didn't we have another character wearing a red shirt, and they ended up dead?

I didn't get the show's title until reading the blog- not a big Star Wars fan. Then I googled Hoth to see if it could tie into Lost's story lines... it's possible, but might be a stretch.

I'm beginning to feel like no theory is a stretch for this show!!!

@LinJoe00, you are welcome. I wasn't much of a Star Trek fan myself, but I did love some Star Wars.

If you ever get bored try out Star Wars and Empire Strikes Back, incredible story telling and solid movies. I would recommend Return of the Jedi, but like Hurley I hated the Ewoks!! LOL!!

Not a big fan of the newer Star Wars movies myself, so don't bother with them.

@johnsmom - I've said it's a game of Risk - and that was around in the 70s... so... one never knows with LOST.

@Kristi - I hope you're not rambling out loud at work! 'Behold...' HA

It could be. They aren't exactly making it a question question. It's almost like if you know the answer, you're in. Like a game. Like kids would do. Like DI kids would likely do after playing with electromagnetic thingies and after tokin on some smokie...

Okay, I stopped reading at 10:50am and refreshed. But I'd rather comment now than read through all the new comments before I respond.

mlm @ 9:48a: Polar bears are supposedly the most intelligent of bears. I'm not sure if that has to do with anything. I also think that maybe they are doing experiment with the polar bears to see how different organisms adapt to different climates. Maybe theyr'e doing this to see what will survive when the island is moved to different climates. (as it seems the island has been moved quite a few times).

Also, all this talk about "where's Faraday" is making me wonder, what was it that Sawyer said to Jack when Jack et al returned to the island? Jack said something like is faraday here and Sawyer responded "kind of". that's not the exact conversation, can someone refresh my memory.

and I thought young Miles with the piercings was smoking hot! It's crazy they could make him look so much younger than he does in the the present.

SAWYER: I ain’t here to play Nostradamus to these people. Besides, Faraday’s got some interesting theories about what we can and can’t do here.

JACK: Did you say Faraday? He’s here?

SAWYER: Not any more.

SamIAm - he said not anymore. I'm pretty sure.

@Jenn3, LOL!! Nice call from memory, I cheated with a transcript.

Ok - this might sound weird, but did anyone else think for a split second when the show opened up last night that the woman and man were Sun and Locke in the future (aged)? It took me a few minutes to get passed that. They looked eerily similar.

Episode overall was just ok. A few tidbits given to us but not worth the entire show. I am curious to know if Miles ever talks with his dad and tells him that he is son and how that might impact things.

HA HA HA Mr. Factual! you are on the ball today :)

@ Mr. Factual - does that mean you think I am cheating when I paste the transcripts in? LOL

@Jenn, yeah Miles mom had me do a double take, she did appear quite similar to Sun, if aged. My mind was racing for a minute trying to put a theory together. LOL!!

@BigRed- I think they did count the bodies on the fake 815 plane in the ocean. The news reports said all 324 or however many bodies were on board so you would think they would have counted to confirm this before stated it on the news. They had underwater camera footage of the captain (that lapidus saw) and other passengers strapped in their seats so I think it would have been fairly easy for the bodies to be counted from the footage. I too have been wondering why no one questioned this plane full of dead passengers in the ocean when the oceanic 6 were rescued. It will be interesting to see if they explain this, which I'm really hoping they do.

@Jenn3, not at all, I like to think of them as factual support.

I was only referring to me cheating if it were a memory contest...LOL!

okay, another question. What is up with Lapidus? It seems strange that he was the pilot of bothe the helicopter and Ajira but didn't know the "what lies in the shadow of the statue" question. He worked for Widmore initially, like Naomi. If we are theorizing Iliana et al is working for a 3rd party, how does Lapidus fit in there? Or, if Iliana et al is working for Widmore, why doesn't Lapidus know what's going on

Mr. Factual - have you ever used LOL more in your life than you do on here? I haven't, but it is starting to work its way into my normal conversations too.

@BigRed & Tasha. Hard to say for sure if they did or did not...

NEWSCASTER: This haunting footage comes to us from the Christiane I, a salvage vehicle in the Indian Ocean. For more than two months, its been scouring the depths of the Sunda Trench off Bali, in search of the remains of sunken trading ships. Late last night, the Christiane deployed two remotely operated vehicles, or ROVs, that verified what the National Transportation Safety Board had long feared, that the commercial....

CAR RADIO: ...Oceanic 815, it can only be described as the worst case scenario. With the plane accounted for, and a salvage mission unlikely, authorities are confirming all three hundred and twenty-four passengers dead.

I kinda miss seeing Ben's face every time I post. Its not the same this week.

Where is Tootsie?

@Jenn3, believe it or not I don't like to use "lol", but sarcasm and gentle ribbing are hard to make out when typed. So against my better judgement I use it here to help people see when I am simply having fun.

We need Lost Blog 2.0 Daniel, give us some smiley emoticons, so we can express stuff without having to type it out. A simple "nod yes", "nod no", "Wink" "smile", you know the basics.

Ha Ha. I never used to use it, You are right dry humor doesn't come off well when typed!

@Jenn3, guess it is better to be thought of as a laughing idiot then a sarcastic a-hole? LOL!

And on that note, time to call it a day, cheers everyone, good posts!

LOL! I am getting out of here soon too.

ahh, i love being talked about when i am not around lol. but yes, i am in complete agreement with Mr. F on everything so far.

@fanolost, Mr. F

when last we saw Faraday, the love of his life died mysteriously, her body ripped away from him minutes later, and within 24 hours he saw her again at age 5. traumatic? yes. enough to make him lose his mind, perhaps. but it is not the same thing as what Desmond experienced. Desmond was skipping back and forth between the past and present. he needed a constant to keep his brain from overloading due to the skipping. fanolost, your argument is that Faraday lost his mind due to a tramatic experience and that meeting Desmond restored his sanity. it doesn't work for me. i know that Faraday has noted Desmond as his constant and i do think that will come into play at some point, but i dont think it has yet.

ahh, i love being talked about when i am not around lol. but yes, i am in complete agreement with Mr. F on everything so far.

@fanolost, Mr. F

when last we saw Faraday, the love of his life died mysteriously, her body ripped away from him minutes later, and within 24 hours he saw her again at age 5. traumatic? yes. enough to make him lose his mind, perhaps. but it is not the same thing as what Desmond experienced. Desmond was skipping back and forth between the past and present. he needed a constant to keep his brain from overloading due to the skipping. fanolost, your argument is that Faraday lost his mind due to a tramatic experience and that meeting Desmond restored his sanity. it doesn't work for me. i know that Faraday has noted Desmond as his constant and i do think that will come into play at some point, but i dont think it has yet.

So if Sun, Lapidus, Ben and those other people are in the "present" time......and they get back to 1977......they are also stuck there with everyone else until the hatch, and time travel is figured out???? Then what? Are they just going to go on living in the 70's til now, or are they gonna teleport themselves back to their current lives???? Confusing........

i like the idea that the "shadow people" are the children of the DI. but one thing is bothering me about that...

widmore was able to hire daniel, charlotte, and miles. assuming the the shadow people got to each of them the way they did miles, it would make them a pretty lame group if they weren't able to convince 3 DI children to switch sides.

Shadow people????

@billy - Faraday was similar to how he was when he first arrived on island and BEFORE he met his constant.

I never said it was the same as Desmond.

But he has his constant and his fuzzy self became less fuzzy with the constant.

Then they went skipping through time and he got fuzzy again (not just sad). In 1974. And now he's in 1977 and not fuzzy.

IMO

And yes, Miles' mum and Sun... yes yes yes - but that works with my cycle theory that the souls are being reborn, reused bodies, etc... Egyptian stuff...

I'm pretty intrigued by the whole "Dharma Kids" theory..."what lies in the shadow of the statue" does sound like something kids on the island would have said to one another...maybe the giant Egyptian statue was off limits to Dharma and the kids used to dare one another to go to it...and maybe the ones that went ended up seeing something or learning something about the island or the others. Also-did anyone else get the feeling that the name "Alvarez" is going to end up being important? usually, when Miles communicates with dead people, he uses first names (ex: "his name's Felix", or "who's Danielle?") but tonight he said the last name. Perhaps we will find out that Alvarez is Ilana's last name?

@ardendweller - interesting...

@fanolost

i just dont think that faraday's state of mind really has anything to do with desmond and the constant thing.

when he saw the wreckage of 815 on tv, he was off. a little too off. but somehow he got himself together to get to the island. after charlotte died, he again was off, but i dont think hed lost his mind or was suffering from any sort of time travel related malady that would require a constant to remedy. idk just me. not too mention the fact that having a loony scientist who claims to be from the future telling a pre-teen desmond that he is the only one that can save him would be extremely weird.

@billy - but he did need his constant. And he found Des. And we don't know 'how' he got to the island or any of that back story - which I think we need.

I'm sorry. Faraday is the one who KNOWS about constants and had himself one. He knew he needed one and he got one.

Hi all. The duffy at 7:45 am wasn't me. Although I had to laugh at your description. Couldn't be farther from the truth as any one of my friends here and on FB know! lol I don't even get to see the diary until much later in the day as I work. Don't know whether to be annoyed or flattered that someone remembered me as I have barely posted for a few weeks - because of all the crap like that. Anonymous/poser postings seem to be synonymous with lonely losers waiting for stimulus checks. While I enjoy reading all the theories here, the fighting is getting old. Maybe that's why you haven't seen many posts from a lot of us regulars :(
Will go back and read Daniel's post later when I have time.
Hi to all my friends here.

@billy- Maybe Miles was more "accessible" than Charlotte and Miles. I mean Charlotte was running around the world (in Tunisia her friend asked her how many languages she had to read about 815 b/4 she believed it.) Faraday we were told by the producers was being watched by a caregiver (scene: crying at the tv at the 815 crash news).

What about Lapidus? I threw this out earlier. Why would they ask him the secret decoder phrase. Is it just as simple that they didn't know each other (like a sleeper cell) or could Lapidus be like Miles, a DI kid who didn't know he had ties to the island. Don't you think its more than a coincidence that Naomi's team had three of 4 people with ties to the island. Wouldn't 4 out of 4 be logical???

@duffy- knew it wasn't you, I guess I should have commented. The same person that did that signed it "duffy". Similar to when the forge ssarah, there is a name at the bottom of the post. Sorry I didn't call them on it.l

@duffy the real - what? You don't love us like siblings? ppfftt - glad you checked in

Also, just wanted to point out how using a secret phrase "What lies in the shadow of the statue" could be more proof that these guys are Dharma people." Do you remember when Des Kelvin first met Des he asked him "What did the snowman say to the other snowman?" I believe Desmond also threw that phrase at Locke when he first came into the hatch. Locke asked him later what the answer was (Do you remember? "It smells like carrots" was the answer phrase.) It was how people manning the Swan would know that they were their replacements. Its a Dharma Dork thing.

@flashest monk - you're so right and I should have remembered cuz Kelvin saying that is so un-Kurgan (and that's how I see Clancy Brown... always).

OK, so now we're theorizing we've got DI/Island kids - redemption of the forefathers or cycling theory? hhhmmmm

re: all comments about Desmond as Faraday's constant- At the beginning of the season, when the island was still skipping, Daniel went to the hatch and banged on the door until Desmond opened it up and talked to him. Doesn't that sort of count as Desmond fulfilling his "constant" duty? I feel like after this happened, Daniel was pretty much ok, at least physically. His diary entry stated that Desmond would be his constant if something went wrong, and the island being unstuck in time definitely qualifies. However, once things had settled down again, he was probably good to go. I don't think that he went off in search of 1974 Desmond, although I wouldn't be surprised if he spoke to his mother in the 70's. That, however, brings up the interesting question of where exactly was young Daniel in 1974? Did he get to see himself as a child just as Miles did in this week's episode?

@fanolost

im sorry but i havent seen any evidence that Faraday has needed a constant in the show yet. he noted desmond for reference. thats all i got from it anyway. but i too am curious about faraday's back story and i am sure we will get it eventually.

Thanks Flashest monk. Figured friends would know, just annoyed.
And thanks also forgot the answer to the snowman question lol. Dharma Dork thing lmao
Think I liked the epi more than Daniel did. Loved Hurley's Super power pride.
One question about Naomi's team. Did Lapidus have ties to the island other than he was supposed to fly the 815?

One more time.....

ROSE ?

BERNARD ?

VINCENT ?

okay, the need for a constant ONLY came up when desmond's mind was traveling back and forth between 2 different times. i dont see a connection between that and physically traveling in time. the constant was needed because the brain got confused as to what time it was in and so you had to find something that you cared about deeply in both times as sort of an anchor in both times. its completely different than the way that faraday and the others were time traveling on the island. they were only in 1 time period. therefore, in my opinion (to be PC), when faraday met desmond on the island, it was not to establish a constant.

@flashest

you could be on to something there. i dont think it is a coincidence that widmore hired people with ties to the island. i do think it would suck if the DI kids couldnt recruit those same people. but maybe there is a reason for that. maybe they were only able to reach out to miles. it certainly would explain why they didnt kill him and pretty much left it up to him to do what he wanted.

@billy - not to establish a constant - Faraday did that back at Oxford in the 90s when Des traveled back to that time (in his mind).

Faraday rifled through his notebook on island to find the page that said 'Desmond is my constant.'

Farady is the one who showed us this - and who knows about it (eloise the rat).

Why isn't it that Faraday didn't get to Desmond's stage precisely because he got to his constant? And same with the 1970s?

@billy- If the island keeps on moving could Widmore have needed as many people with island connections as possible to synch into its position, similar to what Eloise did with flight 316? I don't think its enough that Lapidus should have been on flight 815. Why was he the pilot in the first place? Also think its strange that of all the helicopter pilots in the world they pick a guy with evidently no military experience (wouldn't another Keamy mercenary have done the job) and a commercial airline pilot to boot. There has to be something more to Lapidus than we are been told right now.

i'm not really interested in rose and bernard...they were getting on my nerves anyway. I'm wanting some fresh story. this weeks ep was just a confermation ep. we all pretty much knew that the doc was miles' dad. the filling going through the dude's head was due to the electromagnetic nature of the island. Ben's dad hate's the world, yada yada yada. this is all stuff we already know.

the story i would like to see is the real Henry Gale, and his balloon. I would mostly just like to know under what circumstances he died.

btw if you want to know where rose and bernard are, just go to the caves. Adam and Eve/Rose and Bernard

Also going back to the thought that Bram and Iliana are children of Dharma dorks because they use password phrases- they can't be Others because Others just would have spoke to each other in Latin. We learned that from Widmore and Juliet.

I just watched an epi where they discovered Ben wasn't Henry Gale and he tried to tell Sayid that Gale broke his neck in the balloon fall and he had found him dead. Then Sayid proceeded to pull out a $20 bill where Gale had written a note to his wife (just in case he didn't survive in the jungle.) Sayid asked Ben how Gale wrote the note with a broken necke- Busted!!!!

I am guess the anonymous post @2:32pm is fanolost. Am I correct? I said the other day he wouldn't be able to disguise his stream of consciousness style.

yeah duffy, we all pushed our ignore button this morning...it was obvious it wasnt you!

personally i don't think that the bounty hunter chick, i can't remember her name, and her crew are dharma. they seemed to know an awful lot about miles, if that is the case then it would have been stupid for them to ask him about the statue they would have known he was not one of them. I think it is a test, hince they asked Lepidus. I think that it is entirely possible that all of the "statue losties" have special gifts like miles, hince they sought him out. And they don't know how who is and who isn't one of them. Almost like a sleeper cell kinda thing.

@fanolost

your argument just isn't holding up for me. even if daniel somehow needed to reach his constant in order to save himself, if you recall, desmond had about 24 hours to do so with penny. it would have taken daniel WAY longer to hop the sub back to the mainland, then get to scotland to even FIND pre-teen desmond. and it wouldn't work, because pre-teen desmond wouldn't know who the heck daniel was. remember, the constant has to be important to you in BOTH times. and as i already stated, daniel was only in 1 time.

to answer your question, daniel didn't get to desmond's stage because he didn't experience the same thing desmond experienced.

@flashest

i like what you are saying about lapidus. all good points. would also make sense that he was the pilot of 316. we KNOW that wasnt a coincidence.

no one has mentioned the egyptian lesson on the blackboard...any screen shots?

@fanolost

honestly, i also have an issue with desmond being daniel's constant anyway. when daniel explained it to desmond, he said the constant has to be someone or something that you care about deeply in both times. i just dont see faraday and desmond having that kind of relationship. but yes, daniel did write it in his journal, so i accept it. i just think its inconsistent.

(For those of you who may have missed me), Hi-guys, I have been out with the flu for several days. (For those of you that haven’t, and you know who YOU are, who cares)

First off I am so going to date myself, but someone else out there around my same age & taste in music might get this. The dead guy Miles picks up, Alvarez looks like the drummer in the band CCR. (I use to have a crush on him, and I thought it was so funny). Seriously, U Tube CCR & see if I’m wrong!

I love how Roger is just sitting around on the kids swing set in the middle of the day drinking, and no one bothers him but Kate. I’d like a job like that!

The whole plane thing for me is still up in the air? Felix could have been on his way to Widmore w/the paper work stuff that Widmore needed to set the whole thing up, or it was suppose to be proof to use against Ben proving he did the deed? But, Mr. Friendly could have gotten this same paperwork from Felix for Ben, to prove that it was Widmore?!?

Naomi’s’ statement of the “undead” and looking for the one responsible points to Ben, but I got the feeling that it may be Jacob they are seeking. They are under the cover of being Widmores group, but perhaps Charles knows its Jacob that has to answer, not Ben. IMO.

I have been reading all the posts, and I see the time travel-can you change the past or can’t you- is still being discussed-LOL. I think this episode is suggesting that same question-AGAIN!

All of Hurley’s references about changing the past: Global warming; Miles should save his folks; suggesting he get to know his dad; his re-writing the Star Wars script & the implication about the hatch. {You sooo know he is going to want to destroy the one thing-in his mind-that is the fault of all of this} I smell an incident?

I just have to wonder how much the writers are playing with us, when after “Whatever-Happened-Happened” aired, it seemed so adamant that was the correct theory. Another thing I read from someone else, Jack erasing the blackboard from left to right-suggest erasing time backwards, Interesting?

I like everyone’s theories about the Dharma kids returning via Alana & Bram. My opinion is they are with Ben, but may not know it. Two things I thought of why: when Ben said to Michael “we’re the good guys” and Bram said “we’re on the team that’s going to win”…..Shout out to Jenn3 & the rest of the “Ben-wagonites”……

One last thing doesn’t that Phil guy look like Bert from Bert & Ernie on Sesame Street, or do I have them mixed up?

OK-back to my bed, again! Hope this sickness ends soon-maybe its Lost Burnout!!

sorry about the "Atrocious" tag name, that was aimed @ someone from last week, forgot to take it off-LOL

@tootsie

with ben, but dont know it? ha! i like it.

did mr. friendly show up in this episode? a few people have referenced him, but i don't remember seeing him.

oh, something i thought was very neat!

when they showed the dead body and miles first noted the "bullet hole" i thought it was odd how the wound seemed to come from within the guys head. at the time, i assumed, like miles, that he'd been shot and chalked it up to bad makeup. but then we found out that it did indeed come from within the guys head. i thought that detail was cool.

So the Losties found Dharma building the Hatch...Is anyone else thinking that the Losties somehow caused their own crash? Hurley said that an accident happened which caused them to need the computer and press the button to save the world from ending...Just an interesting thought...

billy,
in an older episode (last year?) Mr. Friendly comes to the mainland to see Micheal. He shows Micheal the pictures of the fake plane and the graves and all of that stuff that Miles was talking about last night.
Remember? It was when they showed Mr. Friendly with his "boyfriend" Arturo.

We are just trying to decide who the dead guy last night is, and how did Mr. Friendly have the same papers last year.

hi Tootsie! Hope you feel better. We were asking about you last night.

@tootsie- may not be the flu, may be the nuns of grade school past avenging your unkind words last week (kidding, hope you feel better soon.)

Thanks buttercup. I'm feeling the love again :) lol
I'm glad someone else is questioning the Lapidus thing. He was obviously pilot again for a reason. Can we think who he might be related to?
I didn't think that Daniel went to the station to find Desmond as his constant, but to give himself a message.
I'd love to know what happened to turn Daniel from a Santa Rosa type to his brilliant scientist self again.
Tootsie - hope you're feeling better! missed you. I had to laugh about Jack erasing left to write. I do everything left to right out of habit. It's how we teach preschoolers. New profession for Jack?
Like the idea that the Losties are creating their own future. Interesting.

Always enjoy the recaps. :)

I thought the most interesting part of the episode was the fact baby Miles could exist in the same space/time as older Miles! That blows the theory out of the water that Ben and Sun didn't land in 1974 because they were already there.

My mind is spinning. :)

That was way more interesting than finding out Chang is Miles' dad.

yeah, we kind of figured that out, just nice to check that theory off for good.
OK - so Naomi DID work for Widmore but Bram didn't. Are they working for Ben or for Eloise? They didn't recognize Ben but maybe he hired them on the sly. I had thought that Naomi used Miles to get info they needed from the dead guy, like Ben got info from Locke before he killed him.
Anyone notice what "Dad" was rading baby Miles? "Me and my Polar Bear" lol

ugh *reading* to baby Miles

Haven't read all the posts yet. I think this may have been mentioned before, but....
Is it my imagination or is Miles' hair going gray? It seems like every time I see him I notice it more. Was it always peppered with gray??

For the first time on Lost,I became nervous! It was when the character threatened Sawyer. the same actor clocked a guy on Mad Men. He has crazy, vindictive eyes!

My thought is why couldn't Miles talk to his mother after she died to get the details on why his father sent hime away. Maybe the dead keep secrets too.

The actor "Miles" played in a couple of Sopranos' episodes - he was great.

this may have been posted already but there are so many theories as to why baby miles left that i just had to say something. I think that baby miles left for major reasons that have to do with the incident. If you think about it probably all the children left, with their mothers, kind of like a sinking ship, women and children first, ie. charlotte and her mom who told her the island was made up and now miles, ethan was darma but became other so something threatened the children i think.

There must be three off island groups, richard's others, widmore's others and darma. my head hurts

Regarding Vincent, it's been three years now (of course that's if they time traveled), I'm sorry to say he has probably passed by now. But this Lost, I'm sure he will return.

Regarding Vincent, it's been three years now (of course that's if they time traveled), I'm sorry to say he has probably passed by now. But this is Lost, I'm sure he will return, when Walt returns.

Big time lurker, first time reply.

@Billy
You totally got my mind running when you said that Faraday and Desmond do not have that type of relationship. I started thinking, what if they are related? Faraday meets up with some Scottish chick, has a fling, and 9 months later baby Des is born. This would give him the connection he needs to Desmond and besides, they both have that wild hair.

Teagan, I like the way you think. I had thought before that maybe Des and Faraday are half brothers.

Billy, I think you mentioned something about why Widmore could recruit Miles, Charlotte, etc., but the "shadow people" couldn't? Probably because Widmore was paying $1.6 million. The "shadow people were not paying anything.

I really want to know who Lapidus' parents are.

And the parents of Bram and Ilana.

Whoever up there said Ilana's dad could be the dead guy Miles "read" for Naomi might be on to something!

Also, Bram being short for Abraham is spot on! (sorry, I forget who came up with that.)

Are any of these people descendants of Hanso or DeGroot?
What about Juliette? Is she related to anybody?

one more thing and I will shut up and go to bed:
*I think the "shadow" people are working for Eloise Hawking.
*I think Jughead lies in the shadow of the statue.
(I guess that was 2 things)

to whoever asked what "shadow people" are:

"shadow" people=the guys who keep asking, "what lies beneath the shadow of the statue".

OR the donkey wheel could lie beneath the shadow of the statue.

nighty night!

@suzie

i realize that they werent paying anything, but my point was that if that group (i call them the shadow people) were a collection of DI kids, then youd think that they would have been more successful in recruiting other former DI kids. granted, miles was in it for the buck, but i just thought that their argument "you are one of us" might have been more powerful with the others (charlotte, daniel, and now we think possibly lapidus).

now, about mr. friendly...i forgot about that, thanks for reminding me. i wonder if mr. friendly killed the guy miles "talked" with and took the papers from him. in which case, it would stand to reason that ben was behind the missing plane. anyone have a way to argue this the other way?

@teagan

sorry teagan, but i usually tend to argue against characters being related. we had a big thing in the last discussion about whether desmond was the son of widmore...i just dont buy into it.

Hi everyone, first post!

I'm a big, big Lost fan and wanted to say thanks Daniel for putting this together...I have been reading for a long time.

Just thought I would add a few thoughts:

As someone said "What lies in the shadow of the statue?" is definately a code to determine who is on their side, rather than a real question. I would also agree that this is something that certain people were told while being taught about the island.

Interesting idea on the losties/Farraday causing "The Incident" - I wonder what it will be...definately something involving electromagnatism and most likely the reason a lot of kids were sent from the island.

Also, WHO THE HELL was doing the food drops? Originally I thought they were in a time loop, but now that seems unlikely...if anyone has any ideas would love to hear.

Finally, I noticed the last couple of weeks you were all talking about a lost men calendar...well, now Naomis back we can have one of the women too...she was looking good :-)

Dont think that anything "lies" in the shadow of the statue. Just think it is a code phrase said to another in hopes of a return code phrase used to identify a particular group of people.

@flashest monk - NOT ME at 2:32... fyi

@Teagan - I thought the same after reading Billy's post. That there may be a relationship from a different, well, time or cycle.

But still... des is Faraday's constant.

@Caroline Bingley (BTW I saw your bro's best friend... wink wink) - 'Phil' had reason to clock Don - who was diddling his wife...

When will Hurley loose some weight?
He just does not look healthy. Young people are not immune to diabetes and heart attacks

I am surprised that nobody has brought this up. If Hurley is trying to re-write "The Empire Strikes Back", based on a story by George Lucas because it sucks, do you think that JJ Abrams is taking a personsal dig at Lucas because Adram's "Star Trek" movie is about to open nationwide.

@fanlost any hoo, even before he had a reason, Jimmy Barret had those crazy eyes too.
you saw him! sigh.

@billy, just want to give some support, I am 100% with you on Desmond, Faraday, and the constant.

We were shown in detail what caused Des to require the need of a constant. His exposure to electromagnetism and his attempt to leave the island but veering slightly off couse in the time/island barrier. We were shown that his mind was seperated from his body, jumping back/forth between 1996 and 2004.

We were told by Faraday about needing a constant, someone/something he cared about in both timeframes, here is the line...

"DAN: Something familiar in both times. All this, see this is variables, it's random, it's chaotic. Every equation needs stability, something known. It's called a constant. Desmond, you have no constant. When you go to the future, nothing there is familiar. So if you want to stop this, then you need to find something there...something that you really, really care about....that also exists back here, in 1996."

That thing was a person for Des, Penny, someone he cared deeply for in 1996 as well as 2004.

Then we were shown a different type of time travel, involving the FDW and people physically, not just mentally, travelling in time. Locke, Sawyer, Miles, Juliet, Charlotte, and Dan. The nosebleeds, the whatever happened, happened line.

During the skipping, sometime around 2001 or 2002, they end up by the hatch where Desmond is. At this moment in time Desmond does NOT know Faraday. Remember, Des does not meet Faraday until 2004 in his timeline. So Des can not be his constant at this time, later yes, but not now. Couple that with the fact that Dan is on his game right now, he gets bad only AFTER Charlotte dies. So, in my opinion, this can NOT be a constant type moment.

Now to the 1974/1975 debate, Dan leaves via the sub to find Des. Same arguement, it is 1974 or 75, Desmond would have no clue who Faraday is, which defeats the purpose of a constant. Heck, Ms Hawking would be a better constant for Faraday at this time then Desmond. So, in my opinion, this can NOT be a constant type moment either.

The writers of this show are incredible, they are not going to spend all this time explaining the various uses of time travel only to totally ignore them later on. I would bet good money that the need for a constant will come up again, but I simply can not see it already happening based on what we know.

Good morning!

Tootsie, glad to see you, sorry you are sick... In your absence I may have recruited flashest monk onto the Benwagon, although he seems to be fighting it.

Here's a question about Miles. I think he can do more than talk to dead people. Remember when Michael got on the freighter as Kevin Johnson and Miles called him out on it? Can he read minds too?

@sk, I don't believe Hurley or JJ took a shot at Empire Strikes Back, but yes at Lucas. I think Hurley was attempting to resolve the story in order to avoid Return of the Jedi and the awful Ewoks.

Empire was the best Star Wars movie of them all, and an incredible movie in its own right.

Someone above mentioned that they thought Naomi might not have been talking about Ben.

I was wondering the same thing yesterday, and because I am too lazy to retype it, I'm copying and pasting my thoughts:

Widmore's exile has to be after the Purge because the Others are in New Otherton. I don't think Naomi said he didn't know how they died, she said Ben caused them to die. Or at least we assume Ben, she only said a man...could be Richard or Jacob.

Miles said he only can speak to the dead about things they knew before they died and that was why Hurley said his super power was better, so to be honest I'm not sure how the dead people could tell Miles where Ben is in 2004.

Something about this isn't meshing. Maybe I have something wrong.

I know I will get crucified for this, but I kinda believe Ben when he said he didn't order the Purge (I'm not saying he didn't gladly participate...) and that it wasn't his idea to move into New Otherton. One reason I believe this is I think Widmore was in charge until after the Purge, as he wasn't exiled until after the Purge. I am curious as to whether or not a former leader and current leader can be on the island at the same time. Does one need to leave so the new one can take over? Ben couldn't have been the leader until Widmore was exiled, which could explain why the rule that you can't go back seems to only apply to former leaders.

Naomi and Miles conversation:

NAOMI: I'm leading an expedition to an island, and on the island is a man that will be very difficult to find. That's why I need you.

MILES: Need me for what?

NAOMI: This island has a number of deceased individuals... residing on it, and as this man is the one responsible for their being deceased, we believe they can supply invaluable information as to his whereabouts.

Hi Jenn3: Thanks for recruiting for the Ben Wagon, (our numbers are growing)-LOL!

As for your statement above, that’s why I get the feeling its Jacob they are seeking, not Ben. Could be wrong, just seems to fit more?

Tootsie: I should've remembered it was you who said it! Apparently we think a like about more than just Ben!

When I first watched, I assumed Ben, but then when we were talking about it yesterday I started thinking about it and Miles' comment to Hurley and now I question if it was Ben and am leaning towards Jacob.

If Ben is the one they are looking for, they don’t need Miles to talk to dead people just to find him. Keamy & his men did that no problem. Thats why I think Jacob.

Question would be what are Widmores motives for this? To take back the island I'd guess.

@jenn3 and tootsie - welcome back and feel better!

Um, could it be Richard? Hard to find... in 'present' times he just appears (as opposed to in a camp in the 50s). Ben isn't that hard to find.

Just thinking...

@caroline b. - gotcha on Phil. And that 'friend' is verra nice... and handsome (this would be the bbc production friend as opposed to the more recent item).

Maybe its just as simple as revenge. I don't know if I think he wants it back. Although maybe he just thinks he can't have it back. Although I have nothing to base this on, I don't think you can be leader twice.

re: didn't need dead people to find Ben - also a good point. Didn't think about that.

@ fanolost - yea, yesterday I said Jacob or Richard....which reminds me i still don't understand how Richard found Locke after he was shot by Ethan. Something is going on there, how would he now when/what time jump to find him in.

Its NAOMI statement: "This island has a number of deceased individuals... residing on it, and as this man is the one responsible for their being deceased, we believe they can supply invaluable information as to his whereabouts".

Is she talking about the “purge” people that died or “other ancients” that have died?

Thanks Fanolost-for the well wish: Could be Richard too, because I think he knows even more about the island then Ben. Jacob & Richard: somewhat interchangeable-no?

I agree Tootsie. I assumed they were talking about the Purge, but you make a good point. Why would Widmore care about the dead DI?

@tootsie and jenn3 - Richard. It's got to be Richard or an incarnation...

Right again Tootsie - is it the purge or the others - I wrote that yesterday - if the indigenous recycle bodies - there likely aren't that many that are truly dead (mostly dead... hee) and perhaps they want to tap into THOSE.

Perhaps there are multiple purges - we know of the latest and call it The Purge. But it could be a purge.

@tootsie and Jenn3- I just watched Confirmed Dead where Abaddon and Naomi have a discussion on the science team. Naomi is adament that these people are wrong for the mission (no field or military experience). Abaddon clearly tells her she has no choice, this is her team, her job is to make sure they don't get killed. The other thing he is clear about, there target is Ben. (Shows her a picture of Ben in his Saturday Night Fever three piece cream colored suit w/o jacket- do the hustle Ben!) So Naomi, Abaddon and Keamy (plus Miles, Faraday and Charlotte all confirm in the episode they are after Ben). Where is your evidence that they want Jacob instead?

****IRONY ALERT*****
Who is the first dead person that Miles insists to be taken to once he lands on the island. Naomi (killed by Locke).

By the way, Naomi used the code phrase, "give my love to my sister", which was code for she was in trouble. Yesterday I posted that the Widmore Others would speak in Latin and only Dharma dorks used code phrases. Stand corrected.

@ flashest monk - okay you have a point. But something still doesn't add up. Why would they need Miles to talk to dead people so they can find Ben? According to Miles, the dead people wouldn't be able to tell him where Ben is because they can only tell you what they knew when they died, not stuff that happened after that.

Althought maybe the dead people residing on the island are the Others and I guess they would know, but they don't need Miles to talk to those people. Remember Claire who may or may not have been dead? Miles was looking at her weird like maybe she was dead, but everyone else was talking to her.

Ben doesn't seem to fit perfectly as being the guy. Maybe its like I said before Widmore wants revenge - take out Ben with Keamy and Naomi and go after Richard/Jacob with Farraday, Charlotte and Miles. At this point we don't know why he wanted Charlotte, but we can guess as to why he wanted Faraday and now we know why he wanted Miles.

Good point flashest monk: But if it was truly just to find my little ole Benny boy, I don’t know why you’d need anyone else, other then Keamy & his men.

Why a scientist (Daniel), a ghost whisperer (Miles) an archeologist (Charlotte) and not sure what Naomi was suppose to be other then a hired gun.

As LoveSteamyKeamy would say: her man could do the deed without all these guys!

I don’t dispute Abaddon’s saying that it was Ben, just wondering if there could be a hidden agenda from Widmore? Maybe they were suppose to find Ben to get to Jacob, and Keamy screwed it all up?

Don’t yell @ me now, I’m on a lot of drugs-LOL

Speaking of the BENWAGON (speaking of catchy LOST words and phrases, I know think Suzie's "Shadow People" trumps my "Dharma Kids" and Cams "Dharma 2.0) I watched the epi where people discuss Ben's ability to tell the truth. (Jack to Eloise, "is he lieing?" Eloise "probably". Sayid to Julie (paraphrased) "Do you believe Ben that the freighter people are going to kill us." Juliet- "either Ben is lieing and they aren't going to kill us or Ben is telling the truth and they are going to kill us."

My read on Ben- Ben is a visionary, a goal-oriented, always has a plan. His agenda is most often hidden from everyone and informs people only on a need to know basis (Patchy about the looking glass). Information to Ben has great power and he dishes it out with a thimble. The only time he will give you information is to gain your trust and then only what he thinks you need to further his agenda. Its not that he is about lying its just that he values information as having great power and in his mind, only he needs to know the whole plan. (Best scenel last week was Locke saying "now you know how I feel" about not having information.

I know this sounds like I'm on the Benwagon. My point is that Ben is no more "Evil" than anyone else on LOST. If you examine each person in terms of what motivates them and how they go about getting what they need, they are all equally Good/Evil. Even if you don't agree with me that there is no such thing as "Evil", you should rethink whether Ben is more Evil than Jack, Kate, Locke, Sayid, Sawyer, etc.

@Jenn3 and Tootsie- I don't have the complete answer but those four people on the Science team all had ties to the island (it can't be just a coincidence that two were born there, one's Mom was the queen bee there, and Lapidus, was the original 815 pilot and I'm guessing he has been on the island before, they just haven't showed us that yet.) I am wondering if they need people with strong ties to the island to get them on the island. Even if Widmore had an idea of where the island was moving to, maybe that final contact had to be made by people with strong ties to it? Why would they pick a drunken commercial pilot (not helicopter pilot) a mad scientist who was under supervision of a care taker, a scarcastic ghost whisper and a snotty archeologist. That's the team from Hell, I hope that Abaddon was really compensating poor Naomi.

3 examples of using information as power. In Confirmed Dead, he stops Locke from killing him by telling him interesting trivia on Charlotte (Locke previous to that point asks him what is the Smoke Monster and Ben says he doesn't know). For two more epi's he withholds information on Michael's identity and then uses it as a get of jail card (scene: walking by Hurley and Sawyer playing horseshoes with a bath towels heading for one of the Dharma cottages.) Sayid torturing Ben, discovers he is not Henry Gale. Catches him in a couple of lies, Ben still won't give Sayid anything, not even his real name. Benery talks about how "HE" will kill him if Benery tells Sayid anything and laughs when Sayid asks if "HE" is Mr Friendly. (of course, HE is Ben.)

flashest monk - good examples. The funniest one has to be when he told Locke about Michael and then Sawyer and Hurley see him walking around free!

I totally agree to Ben knowledge is power and helps him retain power even when it looks like he is not in control...until now that is ... with the new Locke in the picture.

Jenn3-don't count Ben out of not being in control, just cause Locke is in power now. I'm sure he will use that to his advantage somehow!!!

Tootsie! LOL ... I meant island info.,.and you are right I should of said, for now.....

@tootsie and Jenn3- it will be interesting to observe Ben now that Alex/Smoke M. has had her/its heart to heart with Ben. What will be telltale is if he shares info with Locke. He could take the role of being Locke's "trusted advisor" (maybe similar to what Richard has done over the years.) My guess is that Ben will take a passive aggressive role, not share valuable info with Locke and sit back in the wings hoping that Locke will crash and burn, but not do anything "active" to sabotage Locke (for fear of Alex/Smoke M.)

Jenn3- Do you remember my post comparing the Smoke Monster to the Stay Puft Marshmellow Boy (on Ghostbusters?) I saw the other day that one of Sawyers' nicknames for Hurley was "Stay Puft". Do you think the writers were trying to hint that Hurley (and not Locke) is the Smoke Monster!!?!?!?! LOL :)

@ flashest monk - I did see the comment and thought that it was fabulous! Hurley as the smoke monster? I think I would be as happy with that as I would be if LOST ended as being Hurley's dream! LOL.

I also think Ben will take the passive agressive route.

"Alex/Smoke M. has had her/its heart to heart with Ben" Is that what you would call that?

Also I have a hard time believing that Ben doesn't know where Smokey resides. I mean how else could he have been sure that Smokey would attack Keamy & Co. I think he just thought Locke wouldn't know and was trying to get himself off the hook, because Locke was shoving judgment day down his throat.

I like the shadow people reference the best, if my vote counts, lol. I'm ready for some Jacob time. I'm also hung up on Richard's story now. Was he once a leader of the Others like Ben and Widmore? And now he can't communicate with Jacob/island? I mean if I were a spooky island voice I sure would speak to Richard? So I'm very much wanting to find out why Richard isn't the man. And I don't think Hurley is crazy. I think he really was talking to Charlie and Eko. Someone had to be moving the other chess pieces if they were having a match! Also, he did see Jacob's eye and the cabin, so he has island voodoo too. No Hurley shouldn't lose weight! The world needs fat actors too. And Vincent is alive, the producers have already said he will survive all of this and be at the end of the show.

Hello all. You are all spot on about Ben using his information to manipulate others - he knows they all want to know as much as he does as uses this to good effect. But then we want to know just as badly too - ha.

I am totally on the Benwagon and have been adamant for a while that Ben is the main good guy in Lost - dedicating his life to save the Island.

Lockes gonna be so dissapointed though if/when it turns out he's not the main 'saviour'.

@ Amarillo Slim - I am waiting for the day that Locke will have to "Let my people go"

It drives me crazy everytime he says "my people"

And welcome to the Benwagon!

@ambrosia

I am dying to know more about Richard too, but think that is the key to everything so no surprise it's given in v small doses. I'm also desperate to know where Christian fits into everything - had he visited the island before & then deliberately died to get back?

In fact, there's so much we don't know - ha - the remaining episodes are gonna have to be awesome to explain everything.

@ambrosia- "shadow people" Daniel was saying in the blog how LOST supplies infinite number of names for fantasy football teams, how about "shadow people" being a good name for a rock band?

@Amarillo Slim- I would officially welcome you to the "Benwagon" except that is Jenn3 and Tootsie's deal, I am struggling to remain neutral but always seem to be defending Ben for some odd unnatural need? May need therapy.

@Jenn3

Ha - Yes, I'm sure Locke will find a way to be as dramatic as possible if he does "Let my people go", but then I guess that's why he's such a great character.

Thanks for the welcome!

No therapy flashest! You just need to stop fighting it! Even though you won't fully commit, I consider you an unofficial member, feel free to be a welcomer! LOL

@Jenn3- in "Confirmed Dead" Locke tells a shocked Sawyer that he got his instruction to stop Naomi from Walt. (paraphrasing: Sawyer: What, Walt came to you in vision? Locke: No, not a vision, Walt was real, only taller.")

Okay, so how does tall Walt appearing to Locke fit into your pyramid of apparitions, hallucinations and smoke monster sightings? Are we to believe Locke that he was real, was it an astral projection (Walt dreaming about Locke and coming to him- I think that's what astral projection is?) Also, I would say "Tall Walt" is a great example of the writers crawling up a wall. They were stuck with a teenage actor who looked more like Shaq than a little boy that first came to the island, so they improvised just to get him back into the story line.

@jenn3 - I'm waiting for Ben to say 'Where's your messiah now...' with a cigar and a voice similar to 'froggie' (aka edward g. robinson)

@fanolost- I can't believe you used that reference. I can call my sister anytime from anywhere in the world and do Billy Cristal doing Edward G Robinson doing that line and she will pee her pants. Its become a Pavlovian response. I love the Ten Commandments. Favorite movie of all time.

@flashest monk - astral projection is not dreaming at all. It's projecting a hologram-like portrayal of oneself - it looks like you, talks, moves - but it's not the physical you.

@Jenn3- I'm in denial. I may have to start rooting for team Widmore just to prove I don't favor Ben.

When Locke left the island to get eveyone to come back, he went to see Walt. Didn't Walt say something to John along the lines of "Hi John, I've been dreaming about you"? Correct me if I'm wrong :)
This could be the tie in with astral projection.

Here's the wiki definition of astral projection (so it must be true)

Astral projection (or astral travel) refers to episodes of out-of-body experiences perceived as unfolding in environments other than the physical world, by an astral counterpart of the physical body that separates from it and travels to one or more astral planes.[1] Astral projection is experienced as being "out of the body".[2] Unlike dreaming or near death experiences, astral projection may be practiced deliberately.

Descriptions of such experiences are found in common worldwide religious accounts of the afterlife,[3] with the soul's journey or "ascent" being described in such terms as "an...out-of-body experience" wherein the spiritual traveller leaves the physical body and travels in his/her subtle body (or dreambody or astral body) into ‘other’ realms."[4]

There is limited scientific evidence regarding the validity of astral projection,[5][6] and more typically reports of such experiences are subjective and anecdotal.[7] The belief that one has had an out-of-body experience, whether spoken of as "astral projection" or not, is common. Hundreds of personal accounts of astral projection were published in a number of books through the 1960s and 70s. Surveys have reported percentages ranging from 8% (as much as 50% in certain groups of respondents) who state they have had such an experience.[8] Because of the subjective nature of the experience, however, there are a number of materialist explanations that do not rely on the existence of an "astral" body and plane

Well, I shall consider that a welcome flashest :-)

I used to change my mind almost every episode on Ben, but ever since he first turned the wheel and ended up in Tunisia I have been sold.

Also, how can anyone wear the hat & coat he did (when telling Sayid 'job done') a few weeks ago not be the main man :-)

Anyway, nice to talk to you all - time for me to leave work.

Waaalllltttt!!!! I'm loving this astral projection/dream theory. I have a soft spot in my heart for Taller Ghost Walt. Also thought I might say I'm sorry if I spoiled anyone's Vincent theories with my "the producers said." Someone might think that is a spoiler and I apologize before being called an ass.

@fm - right, like i said... not a dream.

Froggie/robinson - the most miss-cast person in that film - well Yul wasn't much better. But then again, it's DeMille...

@ flashest I had to go back and find the list (I couldn't remember)

Here it is: I ended up giving Walt his own category b/c I can't fit him in anywhere:

1. Smoke Monstah manifestations: Alex, Yemi

2. The Undead Dead: Locke and Christian (that we know of so far)

3. Visions: Kate's Horse, Dave (he was always in Hurley's head), Ana Lucia, Libby

4. Walt sightings: He seems to be able to project an image of himself to the island while being off of the island ... so I gave him his own category.

@blueyes- this is where I would bow to Jenn3 Queen of Quotations. I think he said Locke was being chased by men in "suits"? I remember thinking that was weird. Maybe it was men in uniform? (Men in Hats- Nah, another old rock group.)

@fm - right, like i said... not a dream.

Froggie/robinson - the most miss-cast person in that film - well Yul wasn't much better. But then again, it's DeMille...

@Jenn3- I'm in denial. I may have to start rooting for team Widmore just to prove I don't favor Ben.
Posted by: flashest monk | April 17, 2009 08:09 AM

Give in to the temptation!! Ya know ya want it, (smiles that Ben smile)-LOL

Right, so Walt thinks he is dreaming and doesn't realize he is having an out of body experience and actually talking to John?

@fanolost- yeah, but Charleton Heston as Moses. Brilliantly over dramatic. He could do the whole thing with the Hurley and the Muppets and it would still be a great movie!

Thanks for the help Tootsie! He keeps trying to leave, doesn't he know he's ours?!!!!!

blueeyes and flashest - you were both right:
WALT: Hey, John.

LOCKE: Hi, Walt.

WALT: What happened?

LOCKE: I hurt my leg. You don't seem surprised to see me.

WALT: I've been having dreams about you. You were on the Island, wearing a suit, and there are people all around you. They wanted to hurt you, John.

LOCKE: Good thing they're just dreams.

Sorry...didn't pay attention to the spelling *blueyes*

So Walt can not only Astral Project but he has visions of the future. We know Locke is back on the island in a suit but have yet to see these people who want to hurt him..

Thats why he ended up with his own category! :-)

@Jenn3,
Well, technically you did spell it right :)

****Totally OFF TOPIC*****

For those of you who need a laugh on Friday, (who doesn't) check out this link to a funny commercial about the TEN COMMANDMENTs on youtube (Jenn3 don't do this at work with the sound on.) Very very funny, I promise.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=u1kqqMXWEFs&feature=PlayList&p=66A593F9ED991BF4&index=0&playnext=1

@ Amarillo Slim: Also, how can anyone wear the hat & coat he did (when telling Sayid 'job done') a few weeks ago not be the main man :-)

HA HA HA So true!

@blueyes- so technically its blue eyes and not blue yes. Because if its blue yes, I may have to visit the LSD guy in the wigwam to communicate properly with you.

@fm
isn't that funny, I spelled it blueyes because I was too lazy to add the other "e". Now that you mention it when I see my name I see blue yes. So since I want it to be blueeyes, then that's what it will be.

@blue eyes- I have taken on the role of posting name police as one of my responsibilities. I caught Spacemonkey calling herself Spacemonk, then it morphed into Space Monk E., then she totally left the blog. Don't let this happen to you, find a constant.

@all, if you watch that Ten Commandments link I sent, there are at least two references to LOST in there.

Moses calling himself a "Stranger in a Strange Land"

Pharoah doing an impersonation of Ben talking to Locke ("Moses, Moses, Moses" very condescending.)

Yup, the only constant thing about me is my eye colour!

Actually if you think about it, Ben is alot like Pharoah and Locke is alot like Moses, except deMille got the hair thing all wrong. He should have cast Yul Brynner as Moses, because he is bald like Locke.

Naomi and Miles where looking for Ben werent they, when they went to the island , they did have a picture of him not Ricahrd or Jacob? correct?

P.S. I didnt read all the comments since yesterday.

Another LOST reference is when (bare with me, I need a major bible refresher) when Moses' people had to mark their doors with red? so that they would know which houses they were in which was similar to Juliet telling Ben she would place white stones outside of the pregnant people's tents in Season 3

Ilovelost - flashest called me and Tootsie out on that. Yes they were definitely looking for Ben, but I also think its possible that they may have been looking for Jacob or Richard too, why else would they need Miles.

@Jenn3- damn, JJ Abrams is ripping off Cecil B deMille. All this time I thought it was Wizard of Oz.

Thanxs Jenn3 :)

@Jenn3- Burning bush? In your apparition pyramid. Like the smoke monster or more like Walt?

flashest - are you talking about a burning bush in the bible? or on LOST, I don't remember that on LOST.

Found this quote on lostpedia:

The thing that's cool about the Island is that the Island can sort of conjure up these images of great importance from your life. Then the characters on the show have to sort of deal with the consequences. Those visions often provide tests, and those tests are right along the axis of what is most important for the character."

Here is a link to Dreams and Visions page:
http://lostpedia.wikia.com/wiki/Visions

Here is another interesting link since we spend so much time debating whether or not things were continuity errors

http://lostpedia.wikia.com/wiki/Bloopers_and_continuity_errors

the quote above was from Carlton Cuse.

@ilovelost. I agree. the obvious Botox was really distracting. I don't think she has laid off the injections; it becomes an addiction. When it comes to jungle maneuvering, Kate seems to look better: stronger (even though she is an itty bitty person). Juliet, however, seems to radiate when she is inside a room. Odd.

@Jenn3- love that link. I also like the notation that three of the dead have appeared bare foot (except Boone to Locke.) Wonder how this relates to Locke wearing Christian's shoes and his desire to go barefoot?

Speaking of Time Travel Paradox, this comic appeared in yesterday's paper when Dr Mel sends his assistant Winky back in time two days to find their missing tv remote control (tha's been missing for two days, reminds me of some of the arguments during the last two weeks.)

http://www.gocomics.com/brewsterrockit/2009/04/16/

I have a little theory about the people who abducted miles in “…Hoth”, I think they and Iliana and bram are in fact a third faction, besides those of ben´s and widmore´s, a new face of old knowns: the Dharma iniciative, the hanso´s people, who are also in the game of power for the island, but have remain in the shadows for some reason until now.
It looks like his way of identify who their people are, like if they have been contacted separately, is the question about the shadow of the statue. What lies there, well, I hope we know that soon.

Havent read very far but here's a link to the lyrics for I'm My Own Grandpa... I remember Uncle Floyd used to sing it all the time: http://www3.clearlight.com/~acsa/introjs.htm?/~acsa/songfile/I2MMYOWN.HTM

How do they get building materials and fuel to the island. Beer cans weren't from 70's. Love the show but little things like that annoy

@Rnsierra- ring top aluminum cans were introduced in 1965 (I had a hat band made of ring tops in the Summer of '69- the Summer of Love.) Push tabs were introduced int 1975. So DI cans were authentic, but you are picking nits (see Jenn3 post from 9:03am- no one can stand up to this kind of scrutiny.)

Ha-Ha F. Monk re. hat band, The pull tops were still around on certain varieties in the 70's too.

We use to make belts with them, got in trouble @ school all the time. Teachers would throw them away-thanks for the trip down memory lane. LOL

@greenbat

Thanks for the refresher. I couldnt remember where Farrady was... there's trickery afoot. (as usual) lol

im waiting for a young Christian to show up on the island in the 70's.. but will it be with DI or the hostiles?? I'm thinking DI..
also a "coinkidink" that Jack trained to be a spine surgeon... eactly what Ben needed, and since there is some time travel wait for Richard to show up and tell Christain his son needs to be a spine doctor.... or him to show up to all of the losties fathers some how some way.... idk.. just thinking at work stuffing ma face with mango.. nom nom nom

FYI - Michael Emerson (aka Ben) was on Jimmy Fallon last night. He reads a nursery rhyme as Ben, totally awesome. But fun interview nonetheless.

Enjoy!
http://www.latenightwithjimmyfallon.com/blogs/2009/04/ben-linus-reads-a-nursery-rhyme-michael-emerson-is-amazing/

Thanks mlm! I can't wait to watch it!

flashest - Do you remember a few weeks ago when people were talking about the shot to the chest being on one side when Sayid shot him and the other side when Jin turned him over? And some people were saying, maybe its not error, maybe each person sees what they need to see from their point of view?

I'm reading the bloopers/continuity errors and I'm wondering if some of the dialogue discrepancies play into this ...

or anyone else who remembers....I just named flashest b/c I knew he looked at the bloopers link

@ MLM-That just made my entire day!!! Boss is gone, so I could play it! I Love-love-love him!

@ Jenn3-I know I mentioned something to that effect that every scene is seen through each characters eyes (hence the difference)

I actualy read that on another blog, and found it interesting, so I don't think it was suppose to be an error, my opinion only!.

@mlm- That was AWESOME. Dude is the Master of Creepy (I think its those corn fields in Iowa, they are spooky at night). Even his work as an illustrator was creepy. In 2001 he won an Emmy Award as "Outstanding Guest Actor in a Drama Series", for playing the serial killer William Hinks in several episodes of The Practice. That role got him the part of Henry Gale on LOST. I believe that supposed to be a temporary gig, but the dude is so good as Ben, how could you not take him full-time. Any episode with Ben, Des or Locke is winner for me.

Remember that it was Abaddon's job to get people where they needed to be. Charlotte, Miles and Daniel needed to be back on the island. That is why they were recruited for the science team. I don't believe they were needed to find Ben, it was just an excuse to get them to the island.

On the other hand a ghost whisperer could learn a lot about Ben (hangouts, which house was his, places he would go) by talking to the dead (like Horace). It would be information that didn't have to be current, but still could help.

@ Tootsie - right! If it is true that would explain stuff like this:

Earlier, in "Man of Science, Man of Faith", when Jack goes to press a button on the computer, Locke says, "I wouldn't do that." In "Adrift", when we see the same scene from Kate's point of view, Locke says, "I wouldn't do that, Jack."

When Boone used the radio in the small plane, he heard a voice on the other end. This should have been Bernard's voice. The script is different from Boone's transmission to Bernard's. Although they are very similar, there are a few words different between them.

During the plane flashbacks, the audio of the voice of Cindy through the speakers say different words. In Jack's flashback, Cindy says, "Ladies and gentlemen, the Pilot has switched on the fasten seatbelt signs." In Charlie's flashback, Cindy says, "Ladies and gentlemen, the Captain has turned on the fasten seatbelt signs." In Kate's flashback, Cindy says, "Ladies and gentlemen, the Captain has switched on the fasten seatbelt signs."

Ahhhh-I feel you loosing your self flashest monk-coming over to the dark side! resistance..is..futile....

BTW, I was born in Iowa, moved to MN after the 6 grades of Catholic school...there in lies my downfall-LOL!!

@Jenn3- I dunno? I just think the is the most involved plot ever conceived for a national tv series coupled with the most fanatic group of fans analyzing every little bit for clues in the age of the Internet where we can all trade info and feed off of each other. How do you pass that level of scrutiny.

Where's tootsie, I need an old soul here to remember this. Do you remember when the rumor hit that Paul McCartney was dead and they began looking for clues in lyrics and album covers. Most of the information was transmitted on FM radio, student newsletters and via US MAIL. Can you imagine if we had had the internet in those days!!!!

According to Miles he wouldn't be able to get scoop from the dead people about Ben since 1992:

MILES: What I can do has nothing to do with chatting with ghosts, you nitwit. It's a feeling, a sense. When somebody's dead, their brain stops functioning, which means there's no more talking. There's just who they were and whatever they knew before they died.

flashest - you are probably right! But it popped into my head when I was reading some of the bloopers, most of which, I never ever noticed!

@mlm Thanks for the link. That was great. You can count me in on the "Benwagon". I have always thought that Ben is not the evil person we think he is. In the end, we will find out why Ben has done the things he does and we will understand him.

@ Tootsie - flashest seems to fight it so hard, but as far as I am concerned...for all intents and purposes he is on the Benwagon, he's just afraid people will talk :~) LOL

This episode just clinched the whole Egyptian myth Horus/Set showdown for me with the Losties filling the roles in the myth of the other gods who are forced to take sides between Horus and Set in order to settle the lengthy skirmishes and battles that finally drove the other gods to pick a winner.

Welcome lost in virginia! We seriously need shirts!

@tootsie- don't be nun-bashing again. Didn't this recent illness teach you anything?

@ Jenn3-LOL, I knew we'd get him eventually!

@ flashest,not sure about the old soul ref, looks like I'm a tad yonger then you-LOL

Remember picking apart the album cover, the artwork itself, there were hidden messages on it, and playing the vinyl backwards...good times!!

I get what you say about todays endless means of research: mind blowing!

@greenbat- I'm with ya! There purpose being on the team was more than because they were so highly qualified to catch Ben (Naomi openly complained to Abaddon that they had no field or military experience and were likely to get themselves killed first.) Pls see my post from this morning below:

@Jenn3 and Tootsie- I don't have the complete answer but those four people on the Science team all had ties to the island (it can't be just a coincidence that two were born there, one's Mom was the queen bee there, and Lapidus, was the original 815 pilot and I'm guessing he has been on the island before, they just haven't showed us that yet.) I am wondering if they need people with strong ties to the island to get them on the island. Even if Widmore had an idea of where the island was moving to, maybe that final contact had to be made by people with strong ties to it? Why would they pick a drunken commercial pilot (not helicopter pilot) a mad scientist who was under supervision of a care taker, a scarcastic ghost whisper and a snotty archeologist. That's the team from Hell, I hope that Abaddon was really compensating poor Naomi.

Posted by: flashest monk | April 17, 2009 06:38 AM

@tootsie- okay, not as old as me, but at least you remember vinyl and that Paul McCartney was in another band before Wings.

@Jenn3 Thanks for the welcome. I am on board for purchasing a shirt.

where the heck did everyone go?

Thanks for reposting that 6:38 post flashest monk. I somehow missed it earlier. You are right on as usual.

Yea-I went to the bank & ran some errands for work, was gone 1/2 hour and no ones been on here?

everyone talked out??

Tootsie - I ran out of stuff to say...and am bored out of my mind at work! Its been a real nightmare!

although some people may consider that a blessing.

As far as part of our conversation above, regarding how each character "sees" differently-do you ever read the recaps on Dark UFO?

The guy called Vozzek69 is really good, and he talked about this too.

@ Tootsie - I do occasionally. I can't remember if I read this one or just remember reading it on here.

Well its 5:08 here! I think its time to go home and start the weekend!

Have a good one, I have 1/2 hour to go!

this is my first time posting bc seeing Faraday last night made me think of something... What's going on is a cycle ok. but this is the first time that sawyer, jack, Kate and the crew are on the Island in the 70s. They were never on the island before Oceanic flight 815 crashed. Reason being is- bc when Faraday came on the freightor and saw Jack and all the survivors on the island he had no idea who they were. It was his first time meeting and seeing them. We know Faraday was on the island in the 70s helping to build the Orchid, and if they were all on the island at the same time he would remember them. The way we know he would remember them, is that when Charlotte reminded Faraday that he told her she would die if she returns to the island, he remembered telling her that, so he didn't lose his memory when he left the island for good. So if he remembered telling baby Charlotte (after the reminder- but he still knew he did it) then I'm sure he would have remembered Sawyer, Jack and the rest of them.

@what? - that's interesting. I'll need to reread your comments and ponder...

First: loved the ending with Farady walking all nonchalant off the boat... he knows some new things i reckon...
2nd I think the way Illana saying to Lapidius "what lies beneath the shadow of a statue" WAS a question. She was all forceful and pushing him around, and her tone implied she wanted to know if he knew what that sentence meant. Now, the dude that said it to Miles when he was "kidnapped" for a sec, said those words as a statement, in my eyes. As if it was a code word. So I don't think the van people and Illan's people are working for the same person. Like ive always said, im sure there have been thousands of people at many MANY different times of time that have been on that island.... i swear i see the Black Rock a-comin'...

@ isadora
I thought the guy in the van w/Miles was the same guy on the beach w/Illan ??

@becksmom

was he? if he was, oops.
I dont go on lostipedia or anything else that might say who he is/who is is with, cause id rather watch the show and figure it out, or have the show tell me. If he is, then nm. :)

@isadora fiend- Loved the ending as well. Loved the line "Long time, no see" from Faraday. Has much more meaning coming from Faraday.

Regarding your 2nd point. The dude that kidnaped Miles was Bram. Bram is on Iliana's team. Below is a Lostpedia link on Bram, there is even a picture on this link with Iliana speaking to Lapidus while Bram holds a gun in the background. He was helping Iliana push Lapidus around.

http://lostpedia.wikia.com/wiki/Bram

I am going totally off what he looked like when I watched haven't checked an other "sources" either so it could just be me too... I'm sure someone here will verify one way or the other!!!

@flashest

thanks for the verification :)

Have an awesome weekend all!!

@flashest

damn you all knowing monks!!! ***shakes fist** jk. :) Thanks for that.
awwww tho, now im bummbed i was wishing there was ANOTHER set of people.. oh well... there might be.

It interesting to see these 2 sides of Farady.. one all confident, knwoing whats up, whats going to happen, leading with care.. and then the semi-stamming, soft talking unsure man... I think we got the confident Faraday back.. Could it be bc he just built the Lamppost and now is "in the know" like Eloise?? i like how someone said he migh thave traveled back to when the black rock crashed...

god i want to know who asked him why he was crying when the 06 plane was "found"....

Sorry I'm late in the convo, but my sub just arrived and I'm waking up from my drug-induced coma...
Tootsie, Flashest, Jenn3, Slim, and LiV, I'll take a shirt that says "BENWAGON" on the front and "whatever happened, happened" on the back.

I'm completely intrugued by the idea that Bram and Iliana are Dharma kids. I love this idea! Because ehen you think about it, regardless of how Widmore and Ben feel about each other, they are basically both on the same side- the others. I really hope "the war" is not just a power trip between Ben and Widmore and we get to see Dharma legacies fight for the honor of their slain parents. I love it!

Although- When I rewatched Dead is Dead- when Ben sees Bram and Iliana on the beach and gives them the "Have a nice day"- rewatch that and look at how they are looking at him- they either know him or know of him- lots of sideways knowing glances going on.

And since when to dead people "reside" - an interesting definition I found for the word reside on a online dictionary: To live in a place permanently or for an extended period; To be inherently present; exist:

Finally caught up. Have lots to add will split posts: First, did anyone notice 3:16 on microwave in opening scene?
I think Chang used Alvarez to transport him in the booth ABOVE the FDW (the one Ben put all the metal objects in to get to the FDW) and that it is in fact a transport chamber..Maybe he sent Alvarez Ann Arbor?
re: Time travel, since it doesn't really exist and we only know time travel by what writers have imagined, I.E., BTF-Flux Capacitor; HG Wells-Time Machine, Time Traveler's Wife-virus; and don't forget Bill & Ted's E.T. Phone Booth, the Lost writers can pretty much makeup whatever they want, it's called creative writing and I'm ok with that. Life on Mars has to be discounted because it turned out Sam wasn't time traveling.

I think the Others moved into new Otherton and assumed the roles of the DI people as to not alert Ann Arbor that anything was awry.
Someone said they thought Ajira 316 crashed. It did not. Lapidus LANDED the plane on the runway that Sawyer & Kate helped build. I know Lapidus was supposed to be flying 815 but swapped flights with another pilot. When he saw (and didn't recognize) the pilot HE swapped with on TV when they "found the wreckage of 815" he wanted to investigate and got involved with the Freighter Tots. He looked genuinely surprised to see the 06 on the A316 flight. Wrong place, wrong time. Seems like he's that kind of guy. IMO he's tied to the 815 because of the dead pilot, not the island.

re: Otherton, so that the food drops continued.
Re: What lies in the shadow of the statue=smokey as mentioned above, what about this answer Ben LINUS or LYIN' ASS!!
re: Hoth and Star Wars. Doc Jensen at EW explained Hoth ties to Nordic Mythology and possibly another tie to original Hanso.

I have a theory on The Black Rock's first mate. I'm thinking that it was Desmond.

Some funny stuff (not totally off topic)
When Kelvin first asked "What did one snowman say to the other?" I answered I see your snowballs! LOL!!! I would have been shot dead! LOL!
@fanolost and flashest monk
Re: EG Robertson "Where's your God now?" OMG, I peed my pants myself...That is one of my all time favorite movie quotes and also I use it anywhere/antime too!
I'm also waiting for Locke to say "So it is written, so it is done" ROFL!
Flashest I remember scanning Abbie Road for clues and playing records backwards. The Walrus is Paul GooGooBaChoo.

Holly how could Des be the BR first mate?

glee I went to the link you mention above:
Electromagnetic Structure Resonances in Inhomogeneous Plasma Layers
http://prola.aps.org/abstract/PRL/v40/i1/p30_1

and did you notice the date? September 21, 1977. Goose bump time!!!!

@ Mr Factual

Awesome analysis of Desmond/Daniel/The Constant. You put it perfectly.

I think billy & mr. factual have a bromance thing going on...nothing wrong with that, i'm just say'ng

great minds think a like..

and with that, i bid you adieu to Russia's most awesome invention.....

wadka...

First time poster here. Love ya all's theories. What stand in the shadow of the statue is the well or where the well is to be. They show the full statue for the first time after the flash when Lock turned the wheel. Sawyer, Juliet, Jin all saw it. This would also make sense if indeed it was the DI kids asking the question since Charlette remembered playing there as a child. Just a one crazy little thought among many!

mlm and flashest - GREAT links lmao!
Tootsie and flashest - thanks for the memories. I worked in radio during vinyl. Still have a few crates worth. My preschoolers have no idea what a turntable is for except for art projects. lol Makes really cool designs. :)
So - is the well where the orchid ended up? Isn't that where the donkey wheel was? I would lean towards that being in the shadow. Has to be something significant.
Tootsie - feeling better? I think I'm getting the cold that's going around. Ugh.

Hey Duffy-I left U a message on FB, did ya get it?

Thanks I'm feeling better, I guess next winter, get the damn flu shot-already-LOL!

To answer UR ? above, I ain't got a frickin idea what the heck the "lies in the shadow" stuff is!!
So do you think Ilana & Bram are w/Ben, or Widmore, or a seperate faction?

I thought they were working for Elinor Hawking.
But the way Ben acted around them, he knows who they are, and they know who he is. So, I'm confused!

Tootsie, glad you are feeling better and back to your frisky self!

oh, and guess I am an "old soul" too. I remember trying to listen to Beatles records backwards to find clues. They sounded really creepy backwards, and my big brother about sh*t cause he thought I might scratch his records!

and EVERYBODY hated Yoko Ono when she showed up.

the first 45 I bought with my own money was Rolling Stones' "Jumping Jack Flash".

Sorry my computer just rebooted!

I don't know who they are suppose to be with, a lot of people are thinking they may be the original DI kids come back for revenge, I'm not sure.

Like U said Ben was not concerned in the least way w/ his "have a nice day"-which leads me to think-he knows who exactly they are, and if they are or are not a threat!

We're probably tag teaming here-against each other, but did you catch what I said about the dead guy (exploiding filling) looking like the drummer from CCR?
I need someome to agree w/me!-LOL

yea, the drummer was cute wasn't he? I don't remember his name.
LOVE Credence Clearwater Revival!

So, I just re-watched Whatever Happened, Happened...and i noticed something interesting.

When Richard takes Ben, he says that Ben will never be the same and that he will lose his innocence. Kate and Sawyer look at him, quizzically, and he goes further, saying, "He will always be one of us." I got the impression that he was explaining his comment, rather than giving new information. If so, it would mean that being and other and the loss of innocence go hand in hand.

Go back and watch that scene and tell me if you disagree. I don't have any ideas of what it might mean, but it has got me thinking.

Damn, just noticed there's no new episode next week !? Is this true or have I read it wrong?

**slight spoiler on upcoming episodes**

However, the next epi is a Daniel centric episode & the episode after is Richard centric !

Then we have a 2 hour season finale called "The Incident"

Cant wait !! :-)

*talk of the next episode*

The next episode is "The Variable", and it appears that there is some sort of war (although I have learned the previews for the new episodes are never what you think they are). Do you think that in this episode is the 'variable' that is needed to change the future? That time could either go one course (the one we have seen) or a completly different one?

I know Farraday's 'WHH', but who says he can't be wrong? Lost has always led us to believe one thing and something else actually happened. ie. Bernard not being dead, Ben being 'Henry Gale' etc.

I dunno, just a thought :)

The voice-over for next weeks preview of the 100th episode said that the show will be shown from a different perspective... hopefully Faraday.

The word variable = not constant... I think that since Faraday has gone and come back to the island, things will not be quite the same. With the unique knowledge that Faraday has, something has got to give. He has more pieces of the puzzle than most, so will he be up to a bit of course correction or make the wrong choice at the right time.

@ duffy- Rock on girl, rock on with your old vinyl self. Those old album cover covers had the best art ever, something the newer CD's don't capture (althought the sound is far superior.) I was watching the Michael Emerson interview on the link provided in this blog my mlm yesterday and his art from his illustrator days reminded me of the old album art. Did you know that Phil Hartman (SNL, Peewee's Playhouse, voice over for Simpson's ,etc) was an illustrator before he got into improv. He did over 40 album covers including Poco, America and Crosby, Stills & Nash. You probably have him in your collection and don't even know it.

Great thing about this blog, I learned all abou Rufio-ooooo, on Thursday. This cross-generational stuff is very educational.

@flashest Thanks for the info. on Phil Hartman. I did not know he was an illustrator. He was so great and funny.

Sounds to me like this Wednesdays episode is gonna be a re-cap , but presented in the correct order in which events have occured.

Phil Hartman had a wonderful voice. I loved to hear him talk. And sooo funny. Now we find out he was an artist too?
What a terrible loss.

He had kids. (I think 2) I look forward to seeing them in show biz someday.

speaking of old album art: I have friends who papered their basement bar/poolroom wall with old album covers. Cool art to look at, and brought back so many old memories!

I don't think the future can be changed....Desmond over and over again tried to save Charlie's life, and though the cicumstances of his death changed, the event HAD to happen. Also, I unfortunately am worried for Penny due to Ben's "tell Desmond I'm sorry" comment. I think when Ben said he had to be judged because he broke the Rules he was referring to what happens to Penny (though I really hope not!). I think the rule was that children of the OThers could NOT be killed (but maybe Ben couldn't wrap his brain around that she was Danielle's daughter in reality and truly believed Alex could never be killed no matter what he said that she meant nothing. When Alex was killed Ben was in shock and said "he broke the Rule..." Ben had to be judged by Smokie for the rule he broke with Penny....

I guess I was wrong, not gonna be a recap.

I wish someone would find out for sure.

From what I heard, they said next week will be a "very special episode".(what does THAT mean? Could very well be a recap filler episode.) :(

Then the week after that, the 100th episode.

Then the week after that, the 2 hour season finale.

I was looking at upcoming episodes and I got confused. "The Variable" will be on the 29th. So the episode on the 22nd will be "The Story of The Oceanic Six" . It is listed as a recap. Bummer

Don't know if this is a SPOILER or not, but some people don't want any future info on the show,so be WARNED....... "The Variable " will be a Faraday-centric episode. Can't wait for that!!!

I agree with the DI kids/DI 2.0 theory especially because we get more and more clues about island kids (we learnt that Charlotte and Miles were on the island when they were kids, the class room scene, Ben's compassion for kids...) and I think Ben might know them because he saved the dharma kids during the purge and might still be in contact with them. But if this theory is right, I don't understand Walt's dream about Locke being hurt by people on a beach (maybe he wasn't talking about Ilana and co).
Did someone think that Juliet had a weird look when Kate thanked her for having sent Sawyer to help with Ben? She looked surprised that Sawyer actually helped as if she expected that he would try to stop Kate instead. She probably starts to feel that she's losing him.

Fuck ya!!!!!!!!!

RUFIO! RUFIO! RU-FI-OOOOOOO!!!!

Whatever Happened, Happened...

Keep in mind Faraday said this to the time travelling group only. So I don't consider it an all emcompassing statement for the entire show. I believe this applies to the majority of characters travelling back in time, they are fulfilling their roles in the 70's.

However Faraday also told Desmond something completely different...

DANIEL: Yeah, in a way. Listen, that is not important. What is important Desmond is what I'm about to say to you. I need you to listen. You are the only person who can help us because Desmond, the rules, the rules don't apply to you. You're special.

[Desmond lowers his rifle and listens to Daniel.]

DANIEL: You're uniquely and miraculously special.

So the writers give us some structure of how they intend to use time travel in the LOST universe. But they also allow themselves some wiggle room to make for an interesting twist.

We have Desmond who is special due to his adventure in "The Constant". We have Faraday who seems to be the only person able to figure out what is going on and what can and can not be done. Will Desomd do something heroic or will he simply be used by Faraday in an attempt to change something? Should make for a great episode in 2 weeks.

Ps: In an interview DL/CC said "The Life and Deat of JB" was their favorite episode of Season 5. But in a very close 2nd, "The Variable", coming in 2 weeks. Should be good!!!

http://www.bullz-eye.com/television/interviews/2009/lost.htm

@suzie - I thought the last episode was MAY.. not April... this week is a recap - not exactly a rerun...

I think that BEN did not follow the rules when he came back to the island -- I do not think that he hurt PENNY since DESMOND beat the crap out of him I think he said to "tell DESMOND I am sorry" since he came to harm PENNY.

@suzie: here's what I found regarding finale:

Wednesday, May 13, 2009 in the 9:00 - 11:00 PM ET/PT time period.

Mr. Factual: I love your term "wiggle" room! That was the point I was trying to make several weeks back {not w/the 70's time travel-I'm not trying to pick a fight}.

Just that there has always been a possibility for "change"-LOL!!

Just thinking...When Ben had Michael bring Sawyer, Jack, Kate and Hurley to him in exchange for Michael leaving the island (he then sent Hurley back to the other Losties with a message), he had the three people who caused him to be the "Other" Ben. Kate and Sawyer brought him to Richard when he was young and Jack refused to operate on him to save him. Was Ben trying to alter the past by having Jack operate on him while holding him captive? By putting Sawyer and Kate together in that cage, was he hoping they would "get together" so as to alter the past of Sawyer being with Juliette? Maybe Ben blames Jack, Kate and Sawyer for all that happened in the past. Any opinions?

@Tootsie, thanks for the "wiggle" compliment.

I too think there has to be a possibility of change to an event, most likely future event. I have bet the farm on Desmond for the past year or so, as being the special one. But I am beginning to waiver a bit, maybe Faraday is the one and Desmond is simply a tool he will use. Guess we will have to wait and see.

As for Wed nights episode, I thought I heard/read that it would show the O6 in chronological order of events or something. Don't quote me on that, but that is what I thought I heard.

I think the new people have to do with the NEW dharma initiative. I seem to recall alot of commercials last season saying the DI wants you! I think the DI was doing some super recruiting and has created a new team of ppl.. there is definitely more to the Hanso corporation too.

@ IIydiaa,

I think yer right! Wasn't there "ads" after some episodes for Octagon Global Recruiting or some name like that, and it sounds just like what they were doing in the DI?

very good points others made that just b/c the DI got purged ON the island, doesn't mean it went kaput OFF the island...

@ tootsie, that's what ive been thinking re: the losties time traveling rules can be specific only to them possibly...

I guess we aren't very chatty this week. I for one am glad this week is not a new episode because I have to get up early Thursday morning and travel for the first part of the day and I would not be able to read the diary. Selfish, I know, but I can't help it.

Hope everyone had a good weekend! Tootsie, I hope you have fully recovered.

@jenn3 - you need a new job... heheheh

But I'm glad you don't have to be absent - I hope you can log on once you get to your destination. I'm so glad my conf. is in June...

@ fanolost - I would love a new job, unfortunately, there aren't many options and this one is paying my bills and I can be on here all day. ha ha ha

I should be back between 1 and 2. (not that any one really cares...but too bad)

Hey guys: I'm going to have to rewatch tonight, but I have a ?, if anyone can answer for sooner.

Did Bram NOT want Miles to go back to the island at all, or did he want him to go back w/his group?

I thought it was to not go back @ all, But what a better way to manipulate someone in to going then to tell them what they really want in their heart (find out about his dad), and tell them not to go!

Can any one say Ben Linus???????

@Tootsie, I agree, (and unfortunately, I'm going to sound like I'm on the Benwagon again) but Ben was more perceptive in reading Miles monetary needs. He quickly cut to offering him 3.2 million. Bram needs to go back to the mountain and learn from the master (if indeed he is working with/for/in tandem with Ben.

first time posting - i don't think anyone has touched on this.

i remember seeing Faraday for the first time. he was watching TV and seemed crushed at the news that flight 815 had crashed. Am I wrong?

Is it possible that was a flash forward, and that Faraday has come back to make things right and when we saw him in front of the TV, he learned that whatever he had gone back to do, didn't work?

am i crazy?

@lostincanada- I just watched that the other day. He was crying watching the news (they showed three of the four members of the science team learning about the finding of the wreckage of 815 in the ocean- Faraday and Lapidus via TV, Charlotte via the newspaper in Tunisia, and we learned last week that Miles kinda learned about by a dead guy introduced by Naomi. Faraday was watching the news about the 815 and crying, when the woman who was in the flat or house that he was in (this woman has been described by the producers as a "caregiver") asks him why he is crying, he says he doesn't know.

A number of things come to mind: If that was real time news, how did he recover so quickly from being under someone's care to being a functional member of the science team.

I need you to clarify your post. To be a flash forward, wouldn't he have to be viewing the news in the past (seems contradictory?)Like I said above, all four stories seemed to be told at the same time in 2004 around when they faked the discovery of 815. (Don't ask me who they are, that's debatable.) The other thing is are you saying Faraday voluntarily traveled back in the past to stop the flight of 815. I guess we find out in two weeks what he was doing in Ann Arbor, are you saying he was working to change the future after he said "what happens happens?" Sorry, need more info.

Maybe the "caregiver" was not there for Faraday. She could have been taking care of Theresa Spencer (the girl who is in a "coma" from Daniel's time travel experiments).

Although, he did look really fragile.

@robbinwith2b's that an interesting thought. Maybe we will see that in the episode in two weeks. A connection with that scene with him watching tv and the girl who evidently is shifting back and forth in time. I really want to know more about Faraday's Mom and how she is related (if at all) to Widmore, she plays into Faraday's development and how and under what circumstances she left the island.

@flashest monk:

i guess what i meant about it being a possible flash forward, is that maybe when we saw Daniel crying watching the footage of the crash, it wasn't the first time that he had seen it.

Hypothetically I am saying that we haven't seen when Daniel first learned of the crash and that the scene we saw is after Daniel has gotten on the freighter, traveled through time, arrived back on the island on the sub (last weeks episode) and that after he gets off the sub he works to change events so that Flight 815 doesn't crash. Then, the scene that we saw shows that no matter what Daniel does in the coming episodes (the past), Flight 815 still crashes, and the reason he is crying is that he worked for 30 odd years to stop that from happening but as it turns out he was right, and he can't actually change anything, no matter what he does. That the scene where he is crying hasn't actually happened yet.

is that any clearer? this show definitely plays with your head....

lost in canada. What I think you are explaining is a continual loop. I'll probably get clobbered for saying that.

@LostLover, I would have to disagree, I don't think that would be a continual loop. But don't worry, I have no intentions of clobbering you. lol.

@LostinCanada, I think I see where you are going with this.

Bascially the Faraday watching the 815 news conference is the one who ALREADY boarded the freighter, visited the island, skipped back in time, and left the island. This Faraday would NOT then go on the freighter, which is why I say it would NOT be a continual loop. This Faraday simply lives out the rest of his days in the home.

Remember, we have TWO Faradays now, like we do with Miles. The young Faraday in the 70's NOT on the island is growing up and heading to Oxford, and then to the Freighter, then the island, etc... The current Faraday ON the island in the 70's is the one who returns knowing what will happen in the "future" (2004) as he is stuck in the past.

Interesting theory, it would make that scene make more sense. Have to give this some more thought.

@Mr Factual, thanks, I was trying to understand that post. The one thing I can't get past is if its current Faraday, wouldn't he have had to age over 30 some years to that moment in front of the tv? I still like that it could be that little twist. They only showed us a snap shot when they showed that scene. Would be great if in two weeks they gave us a broader view of the same scene and showed us more context.

@flashest, you keyed on to the same thing I did, which is why I am not fully behind the theory (yet).

Faraday would indeed be 30 years older, guess I need to watch that scene again to see if this would/could be believable. My first reaction was Faraday looked the same as we see him now. Which would make this awfully hard to pull off and make me lean towards "No".

It would be a neat twist, did they choose to NOT gray his hair as to not give it away? Or are we barking up the wrong tree here? The jury is still out on this one for me.

i guess if i am to attempt to support my theory, then the reason his hair is not gray would be because he didn't spend 30 years on the island prior to that scene, but arrived on the sub, did whatever he had to do, and then went back to present day.

we will see.... fun to speculate.

two people? What? There's only one of Faraday and Miles - it's just that one of them (and I'm not saying which) has traveled into their past/future life - there aren't two distinct people...

if y'all are saying two different bodies - splain puleez - cause that just doesn't compute with me.

which is why they aren't aging. The 30-something Faraday from the freighter is the 30-something (plus 3 yrs. older) Faraday we are seeing in the '77.

Same with Miles. Though baby Miles is there - it's not a separate person - it's the younger version of the person we know as Miles.

@lostincanada, very good point and it would indeed support your theory better. I could buy that...

@fanolost, I don't see how this is even debatable. Two different bodies, just like current Miles watched baby Miles through the window with Chang. Current Miles has already experienced everything baby Miles has yet to.

Crap , I guess I am wrong. Here is a line from Faraday's page on Lostpedia.....

"Eight years later, Daniel lived in Essex, Massachusetts under the watch of a caretaker. When he saw a news report covering the discovery of the Oceanic Flight 815 wreckage, he became visibly upset, but he himself was unaware of the reason."

Oh well. It sure sounded good though. Another theory for the discard pile. Thanks Flashest, for the compliment.

robbinwith2b's- funny, I was watching a podcast from December with Lindelof and Cuse and someone asked them if the runway that Kate and Sawyer helped build would ever play into a future episode. Lindelof said he thought not, and Cuse said he bet it would. We now know that was the runway that that Lapidus put 316 down on and that episode had already been filmed. What I'm saying is they intentionally feed us some bad info on occasion. I'm not going to discount your theory yet.

Flashest Monk or Mr. Factual have you read Stephen King's Dark Tower? I don't want to give away the ending, but that's what I think was happening w/Farraday, just didn't know what you call it.

@LostLover, I started the Dark Tower series a long time ago and never finished. Read the first 3-4 books, but haven't picked them up in a while. Might be time I pick it back up again and check in with Roland (sp?).

@ Flashest
How funny is it, that you have more faith in my theory than I do??? Can't wait to see "The Variable" , maybe we will get an answer. ;)

BTW, I enjoy your posts, very well thought out.

So if the time / location changes when there is a flash, why did the time / location not change when Desmond turned the key? Or was turning the key only a way to release "build up" so the island did not start skipping? Any ideas?

could it be that Daniel Faraday just DOES'NT AGE?
Like Richard?

just a thought.

@twistie, good point, didn't think of the flashing that happened when Des turned the key as being similar to the flashing (ultraviolet light?) that happened when the donkey wheel was wobbling. He's a complete rationalization based on nothing other than observation. We know the island travels thru space (Eloise at the lamp post indicated that it never stayed put), possibly it also travels thru time as well on an axis. This axis balances on electromagnetic impluses controled by the donkey wheel. When the donkey wheel wobbled, the island's time axis skipped back and forth thru time (think spinning top bouncing on a table top if you need a visualization.) Each time it skipped it flashed that ultraviolet light (similar to when Des turned the key.) Again, rationalizing, but when Des turned the key, like you said, kind of like a saftey valve. Just released pent up energy, nothing more. However, if its not building up again, that means the electromagnetic waves must be pulsing thru the island, giving anyone living on it a pretty good dose. If they didn't create the storage and resulting saftey from the building of the Swan station until after Miles was born, his esp powers (reading minds, speaking to the recently departed) may be a result of his being exposed to high doses of electromagnetic waves prior to the Swan's contruction. The Shadow people (Dharma kids) may also have similar "powers". Again, just rationalizing what we may know (for instance don't really know Iliana and Bram are actually former island kids, just a hunch.)

maybe Faraday is like Richard but doesn't know it yet... He is just as special as Des cause he has Des as a constant, I think. Ive read interesting theories that Faraday was the Black Rocks 1st mate, that his face is on the 4 toed statue (although i think its Anubis), he built the Lamppost etc etc... so maybe he is time traveling through mnay many ages, but for some reason just can't remember those past times... If you are to believe he was born on the island as a son of Ellie and Ehitmore, then who knows whos mixing that pot? Maybe Ellie and Richard had Faraday, Whitmore got jealous, went off the island, had Penny got banished and ellie got banished as well for banging Richard,and took baby Faraday?? i think im stretching very far but it is lost, and i havent had lunch yet.... but the elosie/whitemore/desmond/faraday is just to tooooo "six degrees of seperation" craziness...

@flashest monk; ok, lets assume that the desmond flash was just a release of pressure, then that electromagnetic wave would now be effecting everyone on the island. ALSO, the statue from the back looks like Juliet to me. Prob not, but...

@Mr. F - that's the same body, just at a different time... it's not two souls, it's not two people. Same person, different stage of life - IMO

@twistie- surely everyone got a dose when the Des released the electromagnetic wave (Des got the most since he was at ground zero.) If you think of it like a chemical plant releasing gas, there would be an invisible "plume" that would probably be expelled upward. Not sure if it how it would be effected by winds, currents, the islands movement, etc. However, since the valve is now "open" (must be, because no one has to input the numbers into the microcomputer), the is a low level leak that continues to emminate from the area where the Swan station used to be. Anyone Rose, Bernard, Vincent, what's left of the Indiginous left on the island in that time frame (post-Des turning the key) would be subject to doses of electromagnetic waves similar to the environment before they built the Swan (unless the release is also exacerbated by the "incident" except we don't know what the heck that was?)

Mr. Factual Definitely p/u Dark Tower series when Lost is over this season. So many similarities re beams of light, the breakers, time expanding, world changing and time travel. Very cool books. there was a big gap after 4 (I think) but I read 5,6,7 almost back to back. If you don't want to go back to beginning and re read, I suggest Stephen King's the Dark Tower: A Concordance...it's a glossary and will remind you of characters and terms, it's very helpful.

@fanolost, I don't want to go into religion and the souls of people in a TV show.

There are TWO Miles on the island, yes he is the same person in different moments in time. There is a bouncing baby boy Miles on Chang's lap. There is a young man Miles driving Chang in the Dharma van. Physically there are TWO BODIES belonging to Miles on the island at the SAME time. Chang is able to physically interact with BOTH versions of Miles in 1977. So in 1977 there are indeed TWO Miles, two seperate bodies.

@LostLover, I will try to make some time to finish up the Dark Tower series. I loved the first few books, then King took a break for a bit and I lost interest.

Ps: When King got in that accident years ago, my first thought was "oh no, the Dark Tower won't have an ending!" Shame on me, so selfish..lol!

@ fanolost: I've been waiting for a response to your ? to Mr. Factual as well, I'm not sure who meant what about this two different bodies stuff?

I thought I mis-read something, but if its not even debatable? I think I'm confused!!

@Tootsie, which question as I thought I have answered it.

The only thing I know for sure is I'm on the Benwagon!

I mean if Juliet was always born in 1977 off the island, she would still be born in 1977 off the island even though her future self traveled back to 1977 on island as an adult.

I'm not even sure I know what I just typed.

Posted by: Jenn3 | April 2, 2009 11:56 AM

Come on Jenn3, don't sit on the sideline now..lol!

I'm not sure whats going on-LOL! Too busy @ work today to keep up, not sure "what" I read, or "how" I read-will have to check later.

You go Jenn3....Benwagon all the way!!!!

Wow Mr. Factual, you really had to dig for that one! LOL Not intentionally sitting on the sidelines....had a decent few weeks, but I think I've Faraday'd my brain!

I take it you are looking for support re: there are 2 Miles. I agree there are two...baby Miles and the Sarcastic Ghost Whisperer Miles.

In the physical sense, yes I agree there are 2. In the metaphysical (I don't think I'm using this correctly)...brain wise...they are the same just at different points in their life.

Did I just come over to your side of the time traveling theory?

I can't help it. I'm a waffeler (can't even pretend to know the correct spelling), always have been, the only thing that I haven't waffeled on is the Benwagon! Thats all I meant.

so if baby miles and big miles, never interact or meet, especially at an age that he would remember, then what ever happened happened, but if they interacted then baby miles would grow up knowing that once he becomes big miles, he would be back on the island and time travel to 1977 baby miles time and may be more likely to do it all again, which still means what ever happened happened, but then what if miles' perceived free will takes over and he refuses to get on the freighter? The Variable = free will

You had to wake the sleeping dog Mr. Factual.

Sorry Jenn3, but hats off to an excellent point...

Yes, technically speaking or metaphysically it is the SAME body, one is roughly 30 years older then the other. I am NOT debating this at all, Miles is Miles.

But my point is PHYSICALLY, there are two physical masses taking up space in 1977. One with 30 years of knowledge thru living life and another just getting started at aprox 3 months old.

Hey, blame it on lostincanada, he/she had a nice theory on the Faraday we saw watching the 815 news conf on TV. Its NOT even my theory!!

Ok-I got a chance to re-read, and I think I know where both sides are coming from, and how I got confused reading.

Fanolost-the only way for me to wrap my brain around all this time travel is to remember that Jack, Kate, Hurley..etc all are still in 2007 on the island, but are and have been trapped in a "pocket" of different time-1974-1977.(real time non the less)

This is probably wrong..but it works for me-LOL!

And yes there are two bodies, {same person}-different timelines...

Shit, I've just confused myself..work is over..I'm outta here!! Need a beer-LOL

@Jenn3, I only recalled your quote because we had this debate a few weeks ago. Except I was faonlost and you were Mr Factual...lol!

@fanolost, I have believed Miles was Chang's son ever since Faraday asked Miles about being the island before. I have no doubt baby Miles is grown up Miles, one in the same.

@Tootsie, I only said it wasn't even debatable because of these three facts I thought we all agreed on..

1) Baby Miles is the same person as SGW (Sarcastic Ghost Whisperer) Miles. Same person at two different moments in life in the same time period, 1977.

2) Miles is physically two bodies of mass/flesh on the island. Baby Miles can interact with everyone and SGW Miles can interact with everyone. If you were Horace would you see TWO physical Miles in 1977 on the island?

3) Time Travel is not humanly possible in right now in real life, so all our great physicists can only theorize on the rules/laws. Time travel is possible in the world of LOST.

Where fanolost got disconnected was the use of the word "body/bodies". fanolost was being technical, it is the same body just older/younger. Where as I used "body/bodies" in the physical sense of being on the island. Only ONE...No, there are TWO...arghhhh!! Simple breakdown in communication, which Jenn3 helped make clear in a metaphysical kind of way. If I am wrong let me know fanolost.

@Jenn3, I didn't even bring up time travel cycle or WHH theories. I simply tried to expand on what LostinCanada theorized on Faraday and what we have been shown. I found it to be an interesting take on the Faraday and Flight 815 fake wreckage TV scene. Trust me, all the WHH talk hurts my head, I think most everyone knows where I stand on that.

If you get a chance read "Posted by: lostincanada | April 20, 2009 01:49 PM" and the subsequent responses, great read and very interesting.

@lostincanada. With all this back and forth I needed to go back and reread the posts.

In your first post you asked if it was possibly a flash-forward. I think you may be on to something here, maybe it was a Faraday flash forward taking place in the present time 2004. I need some time to think on this one...

Man alive, next weeks episode is going to be a classic!!!!

@Jenn3- "I think I've Faraday'd my brain!" Look out Websters, welcome to LOST-speak. We are actually going to change the characters of LOST into verbs now? Sad thing is everyone totally got what you meant. LOL. :)
(What's next, I Hurleyed my Thanksgiving Dinner?)

So I was searching up things on dream interpretation, and looky what I found:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ann_Faraday

Could be relevant, or could be useless.

@LostLover
My own personal Lost theory also revolves around the Dark Tower, but I cannot discuss, as it would ruin the ending of the (best) books (ever), and possibly of the Lost series! It's killing me to keep my mouth shut! There have been enough DT and SK shout-outs on Lost that I think my theory may have some merit. (I know this is nebulous-just being careful. Those who have read will know what I mean!)

I have been away, so have not caught up with the posts. One important thing: We now know the time travelers can see their "other" selves. Maybe we are flashing and time travelling forward and back...So my question is...could the crazy guy Hurley meets in the psych ward spouting the numbers...himself? Watching him say that last number gave me chills.
And the whole two bodies thing is so hard to figure out. I thought Jack, Hurley, etc PHYSICALLY time travelled, and therefore were no longer in 2007 at all. Ai-yi-yi. So much to think about. As for Daniel, I am just happy he is back. Now for Des...

definatley jenn3. i do think miles seeing or meeting miles is going to cause something ie bunnies. also talk of dark tower knew it when happen. stephen king rules

I came away from the Miles audition scene with a completely different take.

I thought the dead man was bringing EVIDENCE back to Widmore of someone (not Widmore) having dug up graves and using the bodies in a recently purchased plane to look like the Losties' plane. The dead guy discovered it or was sent out looking for such info and was on his way back to report to Widmore.

This theory works too if Naomi works for Widmore and is recruiting Miles - her and Widmore wanted to know what the dead man knew before he was killed/died. If Widmore had known the info the dead man held, then he wouldn't need someone to decipher it from the corpse and Naomi wouldn't have looked so surprised, imho.

@lbuddy

The O-6 DID leave 2007, except for sun. she is still in 2007 with ben, lapidus, and the rest from flight 316.

the 2 bodies thing comes in to play because technically jack, for example, could leave the island, go to the town in which he grew up, and seek out and find himself, as a child. thus 2 bodies of jack.

what i gather from the argument is that daniel in 1977 could time travel again to 2003 and since he already lived through 2003, there would be 2 bodies of daniel. and perhaps, says the argument, it is this time traveling version of himself that we saw crying over the finding of 815.

@billy, exactly the point I believe lostincanada was trying to make. The Faraday watching the coverage of 815 wreckage was the time travelling version of Dan. It is quite the interesting spin on it, would be a neat twist. Hopefully in one more week we get to see Faraday being recruited by Widmore/Naomi.

@billy, exactly the point I believe lostincanada was trying to make. The Faraday watching the coverage of 815 wreckage was the time travelling version of Dan. It is quite the interesting spin on it, would be a neat twist. Hopefully in one more week we get to see Faraday being recruited by Widmore/Naomi.

Sorry for the double post, computer problem.

Mr. Factual - I think we are on the same page re: 2 bodies and I think it was just a difference of wording between you and fanolost, as you already said. I mentioned WHH and free will more of an illustration of this point, which sibs picked up on...I think they can see their past/future self, but if the future self interacts with the past self then it could be bad news; i.e. the bunnies. So baby miles and SGW miles can see each other because baby miles is a baby and it probably wouldn't effect him, but if 2004 Locke saw 2004 + or minus a few months, there could be "consequences" because they would realize what they were seeing...

@ flashest - Sad thing is everyone totally got what you meant. LOL. :)

What has LOST done to our brains?

@Jenn3, thankfully the miscommunication has been resolved.

I too have been wondering about the time travelling bunnies and Chang's reaction to them. I wonder if the film was a hoax to discourage time travellers from seeking out their past selves. Not really a theory, more just a thought on it.

I also wondered similar to you, is there a degree of variance to when someone sees their self? Would a baby Miles not be able to comprehend what he is seeing, making the consequences less? Where as Locke 2004 seeing Locke 2004 would have more ramifications because both could comprehend what they are seeing?

Or, back to my original thought, could SGW Miles actually hold baby Miles like Hurley mentioned? What effects would physical contact have on the meeting?

So many questions...

...so little time left.

Happy Administrative Professionals Day to all the gals!!

And happy Lost viewing tonight..., might be kind of interesting-?

Since it seems most of us are in agreement that there is a third party separate from Ben and Widmore's people, this gives a whole new perspective to Widmore's assertion to Locke in the Life and Death of Jeremy Bentham. He told Locke that if he didn't get everyone to go back to the island, the wrong side would win the war that was coming. Furthermore, and this is just occuring to me as I write this, do you think Widmore knew that people would be transferred back to the 7