The Lost Diary

I am excited to hear what you have to say!

Brang it!

I just want to say that I felt very vindicated watching last night's show. I feel like it proved me right with the time travel thing. My 2 cents for now.

Glad to have a fresh space - but am awaiting what Daneil has to say.

Now I can't wait! Hey CAM! How ya been?

Mr. Factual - have you had a chance to read that link yet? I am interested in your take on it.

Ok...I'm going to sign off until Daniel posts about Daniel. :)

Don't float any good theories until then.....

Awww nuts! I am dying to read the diary :)

I wonder what Dan is in disagreement with...

I found it funny how the entire chain of events causing the Losties plane crash was revealed in a 20 10 second rant by Faraday

*10 second rant...sorry typo

I have been good - very busy the last few weeks, but glad to be back with a new episode!

Dagnabbit I have to be on a plane soon! How am I going to wait to read Daniel's post!? I cannot wait!

@Jenn3, interesting read about temporal displacement. They do list 3 different causes, but they dont really deal with specific effects related to each cause.

I think from the nosebleeds, we were able to say that these different effects were related. The island has some special scientific abilities, and electromagnetism is a big influence. So I full admit to them all being related, just not quite exactly the same. Or maybe just the results vary from case to case or person to person.

Then let me get back to Desmond, he experienced all 3 of the listed causes. Exposed to high levels or electromagnetic radiation (hatch explosion), the leaving the island (The Constant) and also time travelling (The Constant). And he is the only that we know for sure that was able to find his Constant and overcome the effects.

Lostpedia says the skippers (Faraday, Juliet, Miles, etc..) were able to stop by the FDW being turned, not from finding Constants for each of them. I guess my conclusion would be, its inconclusive...lol!

On that note, they do mention Theresa, Dan's girlfriend/lab asst. I had hoped we would get to see what Dan did to her to put her in that state. She does not die like others who experienced this, she is in a vegetative state for how long now? I wonder if they will ever revisit her situation.

Here is my question:

If Daniel, et. al, stop the accident and the plane never crashes and the freighter never comes, then how can they go back in time and stop the accident, thus preventing the plane from crashing? Time travel paradoxes always confound me.

@ Mr. Factual - Thanks for your opinion. Wish lostpedia had a little more information on it. IMO I took it that they are going through the same thing with same effects, just caused by different things.

Whatever Daniel thinks, I think that last night was a GREAT LOST episode. Lots of action, tension and all we needed was a brief view of the smoke monster for it to be perfect! A+

My take on the temporal displacement is much like any other disease. It affects different people different ways and one treatment may work for one person while it doesn't for another - does that make sense?

@ CAM - yeah, that makes sense, but it goes along with Mr. Factual's opinion then mine....how could you? HA HA :)

So, if they all land in LA safely, could this lead to a new cycle aka spin off? I would not believe anything could come close to Lost as we know it, but I put nothing past the brilliance of these writers.

Love the Richard floating in time theory.

*goes along with Mr. Factual's opinion not mine*

Sorry, I was thinking 2 things while I was typing...not a good idea.

I know, the unthinkable does happen sometimes.

I do, however, want to hear Mr. Factual's take on the WHH theory after last night's events.

If the Losties are able to prevent 815 from ever crashing...nobody would have ever met....and for me that would be a terrible ending.

@ CAM - He posted them on the other post....

My question, if they stop the plane from crashing and it lands safely at the airport, does that erase all the relationships? Will it be like those years never happened for them? Example....Kate/Jack, Kate/Sawyer, Hugo never went back to the institution, Sayid didn't work for Ben, no one ever met Ben, etc? What would their lives be like?

If the Losties are able to prevent 815 from ever crashing...nobody would have ever met....and for me that would be a terrible ending.

@whyjillwhy:

I think because as Daniel explained it last night, this is now their "present", so whatever they do now is in their present. So if they stop the plane crash, them going back in time still happened in their present but now changes their future. I think. :)

@CAM, I agree it varies depending on the cause, and from person to person.

@Jenn3, as you can see I agree with CAM, it varies. I too wish Lostpedia had a little more on it and maybe even compared them case to case or person to person.

One example would Minkowski and Desmond on the freighter. I rewatched "The Constant" lastnight in hopes it tied in with lastnights episode.

I noticed that Minkowski's present (2004) mind was travelling. Cant say for sure if went forward or backwards. Each time he came back (to 2004) he recalled being on the freighter, calls from Penny Widmore, where the radio room was, knew someone had torn it apart. He knew exactly where he was at.

Where with Desmond, his 1996 mind/memories got pulled into his 2004 body and kept jumping back and forth. Which is why he didnt know who Sayid and Frank were, I don't know these people!!! He was confused on the freighter, he was shocked to see the calender read 2004. And it wasnt' until the end of the episode when he made contact with 2004 Penny that his 2004 mind took back over. Thanking Sayid and understanding where he was again.

Both of these cases were conciousness jumping only, no bodies. And both appeared to pass out during these trips. As Faraday noted and as we saw with Minkowski. So I think CAM is on the right track, diff causes, diff results for diff people. All somewhat related to each other, but results vary.

@CAM, here is what I posted under last weeks blog this morning.

@Jenn3, no problem at all bouncing ideas and thoughts back and forth with you.

Here is the thing, Whatever Happened, Happened it still the rules until someone breaks it. Everything so far is happening just as Widmore, Hawkings, Richard and others rememeber. So WHH is still the rules and still very much in effect.

What Faraday did was introduce the concept of variables, thus making is possible for something to be changed. Which is what I have said all along, with my joker/wildcard/variable being Desmond.

Now if indeed Kate/Jack are able to detonate the bomb and follow Faradays journal, then yes indeed WHH would be finished and the past would be changed. But that is a big IF right now, as Faraday attempted the same thing and failed, he died as he always died when his mom shot hin in 1977.

@fanolost, actually it did not debunk WHH, but it did provide a loop hole to break the rules and change something. But until they actually do change something, WHH is still the rules of the day.

I never said WHH was unbreakable, I only said that someone special would need to be the one to change something. Maybe it is Kate and Jack, or maybe Locke, but I am sticking with it being Desmond.

@twistie - Yeah, some of us are really thinking on Richard and wandering the timelines.

I'm not convinced that if things change 'now' that it won't impact the future/present.

I do believe there's room for the ultimate sacrifice/redemption - in that some may not make it back to 2007. I think the free will to change what has happened is in play - and I believe that's what Eloise has been trying to stop from happening.

I think the ripple effect from the Losties being stuck in '74 - is a big problem - not that events aren't being unfolded sort of like they should (same effect, different cause), but I think the new glitch is that these folks have a desire and remembrance of the 'future' and will change the course in order to get back there (think Jin for example).

Thanks Mr. Factual. I can see what you are saying, but I think that last night's episode kinda debunked a lot of what you have been saying. There are a lot of variables at work, and these variables were NOT always in 1977. In fact, there were originally different variables and now with the losties from the future acting as new variables, events will not look like they looked like before.

I want to know why Kate is helping jack and daniel. If the crash never happens and if flight 815 lands in LA, she goes to jail for murder. No more freedom for her.

@ fanolost | April 30, 2009 07:00 AM

I feel like we are on the same page with the time travel thing.

@CAM, I will admit that while watching that episode I doubted myself and my theory. All the talk about variables, Dan believing he can change the past, and even mentioning of the future loop. I didn't think I would be able to come back here and show my face again. lol!

But in the final 10 minutes it all changed and my theory was still very much intact, if not even stronger now then before. With Daniel dying exactly as Eloise recalled at her hands WHH is still the rules.

As for Desmond, that was strengthened as well, Ms Hawkings can no longer see his future or as she said, for the first time in a long time I don't know. Not to mention both her and Widmore being at the hospital where Desmond is at.

Okay, so, the Island healed Daniel, was this permanent? He didn't seem mindless or forgetful about his trip off the island in the sub. So, guess that means that if Rose gets off island she will be cured of cancer too? And if John hadn't hurt his leg, he would've been able to walk when he left the island? And what the heck was that from Eloise. Sent her own son back so she could shoot him? And we KNEW he was Penny's brother! We are good!!!!

If Faraday's plan is to explode Jughead at the Swan construction site, so that the incident doesn't happen, so Desmond doesn't stop pressing the button, so the plane doesn't crash - isn't that a bit out of proportion? Wouldn't Jughead's detonation destroy a whole lot more than the Swan area, kill a whole lot of islanders, and basically make the island uninhabitable due to radiation? It's a Hiroshima tppe bomb, after all.

@berky - thank you! Isn't that what Kate is saying in 'next on Lost' from last night?

I'm thinking Jughead is an ultimate sacrifice scenario - if there is to be one. Someone has to detonate it. Maybe after everyone else disperses to their proper times? I dunno for sure but Jughead shouldn't be the easy answer for the electromagnetic containment, imo.

Fantastic epi last night, huh? And hey, I've been gone a few weeks from the diary, but Mr. Factual? You get two thumbs up from me!!

Loving this.

I think we heard last night that Daniel tried out the experiment on himself I took from that that Teresa got in on it b/c she was his assistant, not cuz Daniel tried his theory on her... her temporal displacement problems seemed worse than Daniel's though; wonder why?

Like Daniel said in his dying words, his mother always knew this would happen to him. Her comments in the hospital to Penny about 'another casualty of this island' was foreshadowing of her son's death. But WHY? There is still something more than we know... Hawking knows that she will kill her own son. Why does she allow it to happen (even though WHH, a mother is still a mother... and would try to change the outcome of her son's death is she could... or I would assume)...

@berky, actually if they are successful in changing the past, then this entire timeline we have watched for 5 seasons would simply cease to exist.

It would be similar to the Butterfly Effect...

WHOOSH! All of a sudden all the LOSTies are back on the plane, Jack can finish his vodka drinks, Charlie can flush his drugs down the toilet and maybe the entire island no longer even exists killing all the Hostiles and Ben.

Heck more then likely Desmond finishes his boat race around the world and never even lands on the island.

@ Berky:

I think that is Daniel's plan. Blow up the island. That's why he wants it evacuated. If the island doesn't exist, none of this will have happened. I am wondering if the purge has to do with the 06. We never found out why Ben wanted to kill the DI, does it have something to do with saving the 06?

All I could think last night about the changing of events so that the button isn't pressed, the plane isn't crashed, etc... puts poor Kate right into prison.

@Lost in Texas, Thanks! Someone posted (apologies, dont recall who) on the previous blog that maybe Eloise realised that she could not solve the problem of WHH. So she pushed Daniel at a young age to become great, in hopes of him being able to solve the problem before his untimely death at her hands. I thought that was an interesting take on it, a mom trying to protect her son.

@ Mr. Factual - how do we know Eloise knew she would shoot Daniel?

I am so curious as to why Daniel thinks that his mother was wrong in sendign the O6 back to the island. I still do not understand the logic in this and it bugs me all the time. I do not see the point of them returning to the island and it seems that Daniel doesn't either.

poor kate? ew... I will never feel bad for kate.

It just seems like between Ben and Widmore and the third group and Jacob and John Locke - there are a lot of forces on the side of wanting the island or protecting the island and for Faraday to just destroy it - it's a way to end the whole story, I guess, but I'd rather the island stayed lost rather than gone. Beside, we have another season . . .

If Eloise knew that she was gonig to shoot Daniel in 1977 all along and thus set him on the path to complete that "destiny," and Widmore, Richard, etc. all remember meeting Locke et al in 1954, then the Losties aren't new variables. In my mind, they've always gone to 1977 from 2007. I said this on the other post, but I'll repeat it here. I think the island is possibly the variable.... just my opinion however and I'm totally open to the possibility to being completely wrong :P

Also, this was brought up on another Lost blog, but if Daniel is dead, when did Dr. Chang make the video that was debuted at the ComicCon this year? It's been the prevailing theory that it's Daniel's voice behind the camera. Although I watched it again yesterday, and it almost sounded like Chang said LeFleur... Thoughts? Help?
Here's the video in case you forgot/haven't seen it:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AdWLYVRiin8&feature=related

A-ha! That makes more sense. True, she sits down at the piano and talks about destiny... she did look pretty upset and I didn't put the pieces together until now. You're right, she was doing her best to change WHH all along, wasn't she? Wow. OK, now I get it...

I did think it was powerful that young Daniel said, "But I can MAKE TIME"...

@Jenn3, it is the impression I got from her conversation with Charles Widmore at the hospital. Charles mentions that one of the sacrifices was not being a part of Penny's life. Which Eloise got really upset and said Dont talk to me about sacrifice, I had to... when Charles interrupted her and said "he was my sone too".

Then Daniel mentioned it in his dying words, "you knew this would happen..." I think with these two examples we can conclude that Eloise knew all along that she had to send her son back to the island, and that she would shoot him and kill him. Quite the sacrifice.

@mlm - and what about when we see Daniel behind Chang in something? Did that already happen? I got the impression it hadn't happened. So does Daniel die?

Or, does Richard (apologies to the person on other blog who posted this) save him ala Ben?

But then, he's not exactly a casualty so who would Eloise be speaking about? Jacob?

@mlm, I got no problem with the island being considered a variable. I am sticking with Dez, but open to others. And I agree with you, the Losties aren't new variables, they were always in 1977.

@Lost in Texas, I dont want to take credit for making the connection, I may need to head back over and find out who posted it. I just found it very interesting and wanted to relay it on to you.

First time poster! Really enjoy all the comments - this is the first season I've read anything of lostdiary.-

I've had some of the same thoughts as others about if the 815 crash doesn't happen.. Will the series finale be: jughead goes off.. the survivovrs all FLASH BACK to 2007, on the plane - 815 lands, everyone gets off, making eye contact, but no one knowing who's who..and all going separate ways?? THAT WOULD TOTALLY SUCK. I certainly hope not. but had a bad feeling last night. But this would also mean they'd have to spend a whole nother season getting that point...where it seems getting bomb to go off may be this season's finale.

And boo for killing off Daniel. We finally get him back for an episode and bang, he's gone.. although it was an idiot for not putting the gun down and just talking.

@fanolost

If you are referring to the scene in episode 1 of this season when we see Daniel in the orchid after they find the wheel, we say that scene last night. I love when we see things like that come full circle.

@ fanolost - I assume we saw this scene extended last night when Faraday told Chang to evacuate every man woman and child.

And I must be suffering from the effects of temporal displacement as I can't quite remember where I read this, someone said they wished they knew what Daniel meant by saying "I was just making sure your father does what he's supposed to" to Miles last night...I think that was to ensure that Dr. Chang kicked his wife and baby son off the island so that the possiblity of the future catastrophe(s) didn't affect them.

Thanks Mr. Factual - I just wasn't sure if I missed an actual statemet that was made or if it was the inference. I'm not sure if I believe it meant she knew she would shoot him. I mean...it might just mean that she sent him there in 2004 and it was 2007 and he couldn't come back.

Here is the post I was referring to Lost in Texas, and others, posted by Ruthie under last weeks blog this moring, prior to this thread being up...

Re: Eloise shooting Daniel...In her mind and in her timeline it goes like this:

1. In 1954, some guy gets brought into the camp, says the bomb needs to be buried and that he is from the future.
2. By 1977 she knows the island is special (if she didn't know from the get-go) if for no other reason than Richard not aging.
3. In 1977, she shoots some some random guy threatening Richard who then says he's her son and whom she then realizes is the guy from 1954 who claimed to be from the future. She then accepts the fact that she just shot her son from the future.
3. She, who is already pregnant by Widmore, wanting to change having shot him, leaves the island in order to learn theoretical physics and the history of the island.
4. Over the next 5 years or so (prior to the piano scene), she learns enough physics to conclude WHH. Realizing that Daniel is smarter then her, she pushes him to get into the same field.
5. Daniel comes to the same conclusion (WHH) so she is left with no choice (in her mind) but to trigger the events that led him to wander into her camp 30 years earlier.

Thus, she felt she was fulfilling her destiny and she was closing the loop.

Now the thing we have to remember is that Daniel hasn't seen his mother since the island healed his mind and so he hasn't had a chance to explain to her that there is a loophole in the WHH theory. So he goes to the camp hoping to have a chance to tell her about the loophole only to end up succumbing to the original chain of event (i.e. being shot by her).

Posted by: Ruthie | April 30, 2009 05:31 AM

Is Jack going to operate on Daniel? This time, being their present, Jack is with him to save him. Not sure if Jack, being a variable, maybe, was with him before?
Maybe Jack, Kate, and Daniel try to save Sawyer, Hurley, and others and this is the reason for the purge. Richard sends Ben to do it for Eloise so they can't come after Daniel, Kate, Jack, etc.

@ LOST in Texas - I completely felt the same way you did when young Daniel said, "I can MAKE time.."

@cam - we did? Chang was sitting down with Daniel behind him and they were watching something - I did not see that last night - I saw them talking... help?

I'm having trouble with LeFleur and company jumping on the 2007 timeline - they've never BEEN IN 2007 - and that's a huge leap for me to think that's an ok thing to do.

If LeFleur and co. were always in 1977 - I don't understand why the photo is surprising everyone? I would think that photo has always been around...

Could someone please tell me what episode it was that it showed Tereasa suffering the effects of the experiments? I'd like to go back and rewatch that.

@Jenn3, I want to read the transcript when it is posted about this episode. As I think Faraday at the end is the one who confirmed it. I feel about 90% right on this, but cant say for certain.

Lets keep an eye out for the transcript and then read it focused on the hosptial scene with Widmore/Eloise and then the final scene when young Ellie shoots Faraday, I want to read his exact words.

@mlm - That's what I thought too, about Daniel wanting Chang to do...

and I guess everyone is saying the scene I am thinking of happened already? Ok...

And maybe whatever is about to happen (after everyone who needs to gets off the island) is the reason for childbirth issues?

LeFleur was not always in 1977, he's there now. So to someone currently in 2007 he was "always there", but before he went back to 1977, in what was his present 2007 he had not been there yet. Does that make sense?

@ fanolost 7:31 am.... not sure I remember what scene you're talking about.... a little more information on when you may have seen this? Because now I'm VERY curious about if they save Daniel ala Little Linus..

sidebar, listening to the radio and reading these posts and postulating theories.... Linkin Park's song In the End came on...now I'm associating it with Lost. Absolutely ridiculous.

@fanolost - hmmmm.... I don't remember seeing that.

LostwithLost - is that for me? But LeFleur and co. went back in 2004, and for me that means they aren't 2007 people and shouldn't just leap to there.

And the photo in hand in 2007 is surprising people - it's the reason some are trying to get back to the island - so that, in my mind, says, they weren't 'always there' - for now. I'm still sorting through this.

Maybe you can expand a bit more?

@LostwithLost - but LeFleur never made it to 2007...he crashed on the island with all the other Losties in 2004, and when they were rescued a few months later (still 2004), he skipped around time for a while before settling in 1974, which now, three years later is 1977. So it would be weird for him pop into 2007 because he never made it that far.

Urk. My nose is bleeding.

@ fanolost - nuclear radiation would have effects on fertility for sure, perhaps not quite in the way it happens on the island though. Correct me please if I am wrong, but doesn't each woman die at approximately the same point in their pregnancy? I would think that radiation poisoning would rule them infertile all together...

Thanks for the post Mr. Factual... I really like that timeline and theory Ruthie. Sounds like Hawkings thinks that WHH, but Daniel knows that you CAN change things.

@ fanolost - I think people thought you were talking about the Orchid scene, but it appears you are talking about some other scene and I don't know what that is....are you sure you didn't see some spoiler? I don't recall anything like that (Chang and Daniel sitting down talking to each other) ever happening.

*Oops I don't think I meant 2007 -earlier..whatever the year was when the original flight is taking place.

Thanks Asiram - that's how I'm thinking.

@mlm - beginning of the season I think - Daniel is behind Chang (sitting) and they're doing something, rolling video... on something - maybe it's rabbit. But that was not the scene from last night.

Have something bothering me with all of this...

Locke, Sun, Ben, Sayid, Hurley, Jack, and Kate were all on the same plane to Guam... they all went 'poof' and landed on the island.

How are Sun and Lapidus and Cesar and Ilana all in another time? Ben and Locke too (cuz they are at the camp and its post 1977 where they find the picture and Sun is told by Christian to wait for John Locke)...

How in the WORLD does this whole facet play into what we learned yesterday?

@jenn3 - they're not talking, they are videotaping a rabbit (?) with Chang sitting down, and Daniel behind. We were all like, wth? Daniel is with the DI...

@Asiram and Fanolost:

My apologies, I didn't mean 2007, I meant 2004. Let's say before the plane crash someone in 2004 had a pic of the DI, Sawyer and co would not be in it. In what was their present "2004" when Kate was arrested, etc. they had not been in the DI in 1977. Then they flashed back to 1977 and now, they are in a pic of the DI. Someone now in our present can see them in the pic. Is that a better explanation? They weren't always there to them, but to anyone in the future, they were always there.

Suppose each group has a variable, which they are using in whatever time they think will benefit their group. In other words, Ellie tricked Jack, Kate, etc. to help her cause, whatever that may be on the Island – whether to destroy it or help it. Ben tricked Locke, etc. and tried to get everyone on his side to help his cause, whatever that may be and Widmore is trying to use Locke, too, for his cause. Because at this point, we don’t know whose cause Locke is benefiting at the moment. But we do know – that the Island is basically controlling all players, but it seems its up to the players to determine what destiny or future the island will take and who will be the sole survivors. Because Ben acted surprised when Locke knew about Ellie and that made him suspicious as to who has been informing Locke of things. And he probably thought Locke had contact with Widmore to have the knowledge he had. Then killed him because he thought Locke had changed sides. The Island has thrown everyone iwhere they need to be – to see which side succeeds in destroying, maintaining or surviving on the Island in the upcoming WAR.
So that's why everyone is in different times, etc. to change events to benefit each group. Which group will win – no one knows at this point.
Does that make sense or do I sound Lost. LOL

@Lost in Texas - I think that's where I say 'the island' is deciding how certain things are happening... course I haven't been able to define 'island' as yet

@LinJoe, it is the episode where Desmond wakes up having a memory of Faraday telling him to find his mother.

Des goes to Oxford and Faraday is long gone, but he goes the lab anyways and runs into the janitor. Janitor gives him an address to try, but turns out to be Theresa's house. She is in a vegetative state and her friends/family is upset with Faraday.

Lostpedia is being stubborn today for me, I will track down the specific episode name. But you need the enhanced version as they explain things more in the added text.

@ Mr. Factual, here it is, (lostpedia is on the ball)

Hospital scenes:
MS. HAWKING: How old is your son?

PENNY: He's 2.

MS. HAWKING: [Sighs] He has his father's hair.

PENNY: I'm sorry. Do I know you?

MS. HAWKING: Uh, no, but your husband does. I'm Eloise Hawking, and I believe it's my son's fault that desmond has been shot.

PENNY: Your son is Benjamin Linus?

MS. HAWKING: [Scoffs] Good lord, no. My son is Daniel Faraday.
**************************
PENNY: Daniel Faraday? Your son is Daniel Faraday?

MS. HAWKING: [Whispers] yes.

PENNY: That's the man who sent Desmond to Los Angeles to find you.

MS. HAWKING: That's right. I came, Penelope, to apologize. Your husband has become a casualty in a conflict that's bigger than him, that's bigger than any of us.

PENNY: What do you mean? Is Des gonna be okay?

MS. HAWKING: I don't know. For the first time in a long time, I don't know what's going to happen next.

NURSE: Ms. Hume?

PENNY: Yes?

MS. HAWKING: Your husband's in the recovery room, and he's asking for you.

PENNY: The recovery room? Is he--

NURSE: He's doing fine. Come with me. This nurse will watch your son.
**************************
WIDMORE: Unfortunately, Eloise, my relationship with Penelope is one of the things I had to sacrifice.

MS. HAWKING: Sacrifice? Don't you talk to me about sacrifice, Charles. I had to send my son back to the Island, knowing full well that--

WIDMORE: He was my son, too, Eloise.
***************************
FARADAY: Eloise. [Gasping] You knew. You always knew. [Panting] You knew this was gonna happen. You sent me here anyway.

ELOISE: Who are you?

FARADAY: I... I'm your son. [Gasps]

I think those are the relevant portions you were referring to, if not here is the link to the entire transcript http://lostpedia.wikia.com/wiki/The_Variable_transcript

Maybe you are right, Widmore says "was my son"

@tg - this is really interesting. Like it's all going back to 'the island' and maybe ancients...

@ fanolost | April 30, 2009 07:43 AM

That is the video from ComicCon, it isn't necessarity canon or from an actual episode....I think...

@LostwithLost. Jack, Kate, Hurley were always in that photo taken in 1977. You are thinking to linear right now, this is what is referred to as a Causal Loop, here is a definition of this paradox...

A predestination paradox, also called either a causal loop, or a causality loop and (less frequently) either a closed loop or closed time loop, is a paradox of time travel that is often used as a convention in science fiction. It exists when a time traveller is caught in a loop of events that "predestines" or "predates" them to travel back in time. Because of the possibility of influencing the past while time traveling, one way of explaining why history does not change is by saying that whatever has happened was meant to happen. A time traveller attempting to alter the past in this model, intentionally or not, would only be fulfilling their role in creating history as we know it, not changing it. Or that the time-traveler's personal knowledge of history already includes their future travels to their own experience of the past. Effectively, it means this: the time traveller is in the past, which means they were in the past before. Therefore, their presence is vital to the future, and they do something that causes the future to occur the same way that their knowledge of the future has already happened. It is very closely related to the ontological paradox and usually occurs at the same time.

It was strange last night when Farraday shows up in camp and Richard says, "I'm sorry, do I know you?" as if he doesn't. Didn't he see him in 1954? Or did he just see Locke?

I think I can explain this a little better......

Let's say today, me and let's use Fanolost (just for example) go back in time, and I hit FOL on the head and that's how the story is told. Everyone on this blog now would know in the past I hit FOL on the head...What happened happened. Now, Let's say at some point we go back in time again, this time FOL hits ME over the head. Everyone on this blog would now remember it as FOL hitting me over the head.....what happened happened, and that's the way it ALWAYS happened to everyone who hears the story in the future.....

@jenn3 - what video? I'm talking the show... what we saw as a, I'll go look up epis.

@lostwithlost - so even though things are changing, folks are only remembering the latest version?

@Jenn3, and you are on the ball as well, kudos. That is why I believe Eloise knew all along, her sacrifice was sending her son to die.

@Comic Con video. I have heard the arguments on that video, and there seems to be some disagreement on who was speaking/recording the video. The three names that are being debated is LaFluer, Miles and Faraday. I got my money on Miles, but far from being accepted as fact.

@ fanolost - I'm lost LOL

@fanolost:

Yes. I think so. I think if someone had been shown a pic of the DI before Sawyer got on the plane he would not have been in it, because he had not yet "visited" 1977. But now, someone in "our" time looking at the pic would see Sawyer. He wasn't always there in his "present", but he is there in his "present" now. That's why any one of them could die or something, because it is their "present", but when we first met them all, it was not yet their "past".

I think the Swan incident is what awoke and set loose the smoke monster security system, started the birth defects effects, polar beer escaping and every other phenomenon after that including the purge and all other negative occurrences that have been happening ever since. Maybe each group is trying to change the results of that - to ensure which one survives the whole ordeal.

i think the smoke monster is indigenous to the island, they had the force field like security system far before "the incident" the polar bears came to the island through dharma and their experiments. But I do agree that the birth defects happened after "the incident"

So, did the Lostie cause the Russo & Alex crash? They crash when the island was skipping because Ben moved it. If so how does that fit it the chain of advents? Is this the reason that the island wanted them both killed, to avoid another variable that may change the set course.

I think what LostwithLost is saying is this. I am not rich, I am a bluecollar worker. But supposed I have a chance to timetravel. I go back a few years and I get a lottery ticket with what I know to be the winning numbers. Now I am rich. To everyone else, that is how it always happened, so what happened happened. I am the only one that knows that I wasn't rich until I traveled a few years back in time.

Anonymous is me. I got so excited forgot to type my name.

Kfish - I thought same thing, but then Aaron would still be with Claire and it's a mother's love thing - I think that Kate gave up life to help Aaron to find and bring back Claire, so she'd clearly be willing to face the music with the law

Hello everyone. First time poster but long time reader. This episode caused some confusion for me that I am hoping the minds on Lost Diary can help. In the episode, Faraday mentions to Jack about "their past" being "their present" now. He uses the example of when Jack first met Faraday, Faraday did not have a scar from being grazed in the neck by the DI gunman. So how does this translate with the fact that Faraday has been shot in the body. Does this now stop the time loop on Faraday. So if he had no scars in 2004, then did Faraday not change part of his past? I am still confused by this time traveling.

@ anon at 8:04 - that sounds like the Back to the Future theory of time travel lol. Hurley was right! Does that mean they're all going to start fading away soon?

Just to clarity LOL -
the Swan thought Anonymous is me - not the I think LostwithLost anonymous quote.
Fanolost - you mentioned Ellie's allegiance to the Island to send her son back to be killed, but it seems all the key players have this allegiance with the Island where - even their families can't count as much as the Island. They have to be totally loyal to the Island - first, even at the risk of loosing a child or family member. They are part of the sacrifice - it seems each one must make to have the sole power in the end - maybe.

@LostinGA:

To anyone that doesn't KNOW Farraday skipped back in time, they would remember Farraday as always having that scar on his neck. But to Jack and the others, who first met him "pre-scar" they would know that he didn't always have the scar in what was his previous present. Like when he was sitting on the chair crying at the TV. That was his Previous present. But now his present is 1977. If he dies now, then his previous present in the chair crying never would have happened for someone that didn't know he traveled back. But for Jack and others, it did.

OK, if, and this is a big if, in the end, everything gets sewed up and what that means is that everyone who is alive simply continues on course on the Oceanic airline flight (but someone would need to explain if the dead folk are alive) - then what happens with Claire and Aaron?

There is no adoptive couple in LA. She was duped on the flight for the island. I guess I don't understand from where their 'original' lives would start. In theory, there would be no need for this flight for any of them (if the island is not in need of them), so they would never be on it at all? Jack wouldn't have insisted - he would simply have waited til the next flight? etc...

The Jughead bomb is a hydrogen bomb. A hydrogen bomb 'uses' an atom bomb to detonate. So it would seem to be much firepower for this job. Better put; It 'might not' completely destroy the island, but it could contaminate it enough that its useless to live on. Like Bikini Atoll in the 1950's. Whatcha think?

99 comments and you haven't even posted yet.

I'm impressed D.

@tg - yep. I use the term pawn (other blog) for Eloise and her son. I'd be disappointed if this was a 'game' but really - it sure keeps hinting at this.

@LostwithLost - Thank you for the explanation. That would make sense for the Losties to know that the events have changed. I appreciate your help.

I recently got my "Desmond is my constant" t-shirt in the mail (also a "Drive Shaft" t-shirt). Now I just need them to make a "Daniel is my variable" t-shirt and I'll be set.

@Fanolost:

I think if everything gets sewed up, and they destroy the island or make in uninhabitable and it doesn't have those properties anymore then the flight never happened and NO ONE would have died. That means that anyone that died "on-island" would be alive. Michael, Claire, Libby, all the others. They would just land safely at their destination and never even knew eachother. Because they only "met" eachother when the plane crashed on the island.

By the way - I have a problem that I still can't figure out - how is Daniel sick when the fake plane is found - that's very close in time to when he shows up at the island on the freighter all healed - how does he heal so fast - I guess it healed Locke's legs immediately

@LostwithLost
As far as Rose's cancer - cancer is a progressive disease, it will start over wherever it started before, she won't be stage IV moment she steps off island and perhaps they would be able to find and remove her first tumor - the others' were cured of injuries, something that would no re-occur when they get off the island

Lastly, perhaps the H-bomb explosion will be absorbed by the energy of the island and perhaps it doesn't work, but perhaps that's why women can't have babies on the island after the bomb, residual radiation - so the bomb always happened and always didn't work, but was always absorbed by the island

The Jughead bomb is a hydrogen bomb. A hydrogen bomb 'uses' an atom bomb to detonate. So it would seem to be much firepower for this job. Better put; It 'might not' completely destroy the island, but it could contaminate it enough that its useless to live on. Like Bikini Atoll in the 1950's. Whatcha think?

Desmond telling Penny that “he said he’ll never leave her” – means one thing to me – he’s gotta go. Remember – the Island is not done with him – Ellies last haunting words to him and now she is here to make sure her words weren’t wrong. And when she sees he’s alive, she knows it’s still in place – but it’s unpredictable now, as she told Jack, etc. because it’s anyone’s game at this point – so she can’t see the future, but she knows Desmond is going back to that island one way or another, especially since he lived. One thing we know when the Island isn’t done with you – it isn’t over. At first when they showed Ellie walking out the hospital – I thought sure she had kidnapped Penny and Desmond’s son – to get Desmond back to the Island. OR maybe her and Widmore don’t want him to live to make it back the island or are glad he lived – so he can kill BEN for them. Maybe that’s his destiny on the Island.

I am mad the are killing off daniel! cruel! if somehow the temple saves him maybe it has to give him electromagnetic life support (like a pacemaker) for the rest of his life and he becomes.... jacob?
nah why not just call him daniel?

they at least completed his timeline but we still don't know what research it was that could have made him famous as miles indicated. did he build that mapping system?

we do know that widmore staged the crash and that widmore is daniel's father. penny and daniel were brother and sister!

if the losties never crash it doesn't mean they'll never meet again, nor does it mean the island will never need them again. they could do this all over again example: they all meet on route to africa - locke taking a safari instead of his walkabout, hurley traveling the world with his money, Jack going to doctors without borders (where he can encounter juliet) etc. cant ya see the losties battling somalian pirates?

tg maybe penny is to go with desmond. she is daniel's sister and widmore's daughter why shouldn't she have a role in this?

Anybody notice when Daniel explained to Dr. Chang that Miles was his son, he said something like "don't you think its strange that a Chinese guy named Miles shows up here, and your baby's name is Miles?" Well..hadn't Miles been on the island 3 years, as far as Dr. Chang knew? That would be about 2 years before his baby was born, so Dr. Chang would have named his baby Miles AFTER adult Miles would have already been working in security...just something that stuck in my head as soon as I heard it.

@glee - amazing example of the island finding what it needs!

@tg - ya think Pen goes with Des? The ultimate sacrifice on Widmore? His daughter caught in this play? That's one way 'not to leave her' is to bring her.

Others have left their kids behind, why not them?

@tg

if there is no hatch, there is never a way off the island for Desmond - he'd have been stranded there alone for years - he got there by a boat wreck - he only go off because the freighter was sent - he'd be stuck on the island, right? I am sure that is fraught with logical problems...

@ V | April 30, 2009 08:21 AM GOOD CATCH!

LOSTinGA - Daniel didn't have the scar when everyone first met him because he hadn't been shot yet. Let's say he was 33 when he got off the freighter. He is now chronologically 36, despite the time travel. He gets shot at 36, which is why he didn't have the scar when he was 33.

Throughout all of this hullabaloo, there is one constant. Richard. He is never changing, always there, never doing anything really, but always looking good (!)... what on EARTH is Richard's role in this whole island thing?

And I like the idea of the parental sacrifice... Ben sacrificed Alex, well... only after Danielle sacrificed Alex... Claire sacrificed Aaron... Eloise and Faraday... Widmore and Penelope... is that coincidence or by design?

AND...

there are still some things I don't get...

1. Who are the Hostiles, really? And how does Eloise get off the island? It must be something intertwined with Ben and his takeover of Dharma, to be able to leave on the sub, right?

2. Speaking of Ben, where is he? Both the young Ben and the old Ben are on the island in 1977, just like Miles. How does that work exactly?

3. Gosh there's a lot more but I'm going to wait...

@Good Omen - which translates to "this is his present."

@LIT - Big Ben is on the island in 2007 not 1977

@LostinTexas. Old Ben is not on the island in 1977 time. He is with Sun, Locke, and Lapadus in "regular" time. They didn't flash back, they just landed on the other island in our present time. What about Christian? He isn't in the past either. How does he fit into all this?

so the question is - who gains and who loses from changing the past?

juliet and sawyer obviously want to stay together so they vote no
kate doesn't want to go to jail so a no vote there
jack a yes vote tho would never meet kate or juliet
hurley - hmm have to think about that. seems like a no but...he wouldn't have met libby

@V - I thought baby Miles was an infant in 74 - and now he's 3

So Locke and Sun are also in 2007 since they landed on the other island? Then what is the take on what Cesar and Ilana are all about and all of this talk about being "in the shadow of the statue"... it sounds like something the hostiles would say...

@ CAM

Daniel thought it was wrong to send them back because they split up and landed in different times. I think it was very significant that the 'previously on lost' showed eloise telling jack that they all have to go back or god help them (or something like that). they all need to go back all of them.

@ fanolost - remember the last episode before this one took place in 1977 (at least island portions) and Miles looked through the window at Chang holding his babyself....

So in Dan's journal among the equations on the page he is reading on the way down to the Orchid underground it says "Scale Factor" - this seems to be relating to the variables that are not controllable or ...dunno

Daniel just updated saying another 30 min or so...

I know people get confused why someone can be in the same time and place as their younger self - the explanation is quite easy, the young version of themselves is experiencing their past while the older version is experiencing their present. Just because they are in another time doesn't believe that their life and experiences stop, they keep going. The character's experiences may change due to the meddling of the time travelers and that will ultimately affect the older version as well.

@LIT:

We don't yet know what that means. Some think it's code so they know who is on their team, some think it's Jughead under the statue, some think it's the Orchid station, not sure yet. But if it is Jughead they are looking for, or the orchid, as that is going on and Ilana's team is trying to find it, at the same time right now in the past, Daniel is trying to destroy it.

I'm sure someone else has mentioned this, but ...

Sun was told she had a very long journey in front of her to get back to Jin. So assuming Sun has to travel back in time, would the Ajira others have to time travel also to start their war? By landing in the 2007 present, is that also the island protecting itself?

@Good Omen - Thank you for your explanation. Once you bring in the age factor it makes better since to me. Everyone ages no matter what year they are currently in - well everyone except Richard it would seem.

@Good Omen - that is a good theory for why not all of Ajira 316 landed in 1977, never considered that before.

@jenn3 - yeah I remember that but somehow thought that was a flashback to when they initially landed back in time. I defer those that watch the epis over ... ;)

I would think that Sayid would want to travel now from his present 1977 to his future and save his woman. If he can get there before she is shot, maybe he can save her.

What's WHH (I Missed that one in the past conversations) Everyone is using it - but I'm not sure what it stands for (?)

Miles was in 1977 when he saw infant self, which means he wasn't born yet in 1973 (or that baby ages REALLY slow)and according to Lostpedia he was born in 1977

tg: What happened happened.

@tg

WHH = Whatever Happened, Happened

@tg - whh - what happened, happened - name of previous epi (two back I think??) and how Daniel described being thrown back with the skips...

@Cam

So Miles was on the island for a couple of years when baby Miles was born in 1977 and the Dr. chose the name Miles for his baby even though there was a Chinese security guy on the island - we already know the Dr knows who arrived with LaFleur (he remembered that Daniel did)

Mr. F, CAM, Ruthie,
I caught a very different meaning from the relationship between Eloise and Daniel last night...in my timeline, Eloise shoots a strange man claiming to be her son, then has a son, takes him off the island, watches this self-fulfilling prophecy begin to unfold, then has the conversation with him at the piano about "destiny". In my mind, she pushes him into his field of study so that he can learn enough to attempt to CHANGE the events leading up to his death...to try to PREVENT herself from shooting Daniel in the future (past?). But by pushing him so hard so that he is in a position to try to PREVENT what happens, she accidentally reinforces it... and I'm back at WHH.

yep. but I am not convinced that Dr. Chang named his son after... his son. Like Miles said, they don't really run in the same social circles.

My question is... if they detonate the bomb and destroy everything and everyone, how many of them will still exist in this new reality. Many if not all are in someway tied to the island.. Jack, Claire, Miles, Daniel, Penny would all be unable to be born.

So when Daniel tells young (pregnant?) Eloise on the island, "You knew...", she remembers it in the years to come, and yes, she did know, but she tried to keep it from happening and instead, ended up following the same path that led her to shoot him on the island... Whew, I need a Polar Beer.

Jack and Claire weren't born on the island, so they should be fine. Miles was already born, but it is unknown if Daniel was. Penny wasn't born on the island, her mother was an "outsider" so she should be fine as long as Widmore escapes the bomb.

But this is all irrelevant until we know what actually happens in the last episodes.

@ Seattleguy: No. As Daniel said..this is their present. Each of them who were existing in 1977 as their younger self are still there, and that includes their parents. So, say if Kate's mother in 1977 was trying to get pregnant with Kate, she will still get pregnant. Their past still exists its just their present is being altered by having time traveled to their past.

Daniel, if you are thinking that this episode stinks and you do not want to write that - do it anyways! I did not learn a single thing from it and thought it was a waste of an hour!

@cam - HA! But it's so much fun speculating and theorizing...

As much as I loved this episode, I'm not sure what purpose it served us.

We had information confirmed that most of us had already believed for some time, so no real shockers there. But other than that all we got was Daniel's plan/theory and Daniel's possible death (ergh! to that btw).

So, unless the '77 Losties follow through with Daniel's plan (good or bad) then I don't know how this episode moved us forward any in our knowledge of what is happening and possibly going to happen.

But I trust in the brilliance of the show's writers and I know that the upcoming episodes will bring it all back full circle...or at least a semi-circle. haha

No I am saying.. if their parents.. Christian was obviously on the island at some point, along with Widmore and Change.. if they are killed before they can have kids then the kids can't exist. Just specifically those who were born/coceived to those on the island.

I understand that it is the present...

I'm talking about their parents.. Christian was obviously on the island at some point, along with Widmore and Change.. if they are killed before they can have kids then the kids can't exist. Just specifically those who were born/coceived to those on the island.

I think that being on a forum where we discuss theories as if we already know the truth may skew our thoughts on if an episode is good or not. I love having my theories confirmed and finding out FOR SURE that Widmore and Hawkings were Daniel's parents was great.

i guess i got the initial vibe that widmore and eloise were bro and sis but i suppose that interaction was after their breakup and thus the coldness.
can't see them getting busy...

@Victoria - speculation on the other blog (before Daniel put this up) is that perhaps it wasn't a love connection between Eloise and Widmore - someone posted regarding the island wanting them to 'do it.' I postulated that maybe she was forced ... I didn't get a good vibe at all at their meeting at hospital.

@ fanolost - that was me, I though maybe Jacob made them do it so he could have a super Other Island spawn.

I totally got a bro & sis vibe and I was kinda creeped out last night! LOL

i dont think my theory was debunked at all. i still think WHH for the loop that we've experienced and IF anyone is able to change something then thats WH for the next loop. i dont think changing anything will affect the relationships we've seen because they've happened, this is their present...the relationships in the next loop may be different (or maybe the same if the course corrects itself)jmo

errr...I see the blog. But I can not read the blog, it redirects to the comments.

Isn't Daniel older than Charlotte? If that is true, and Charlotte is a young girl in 77, then kid/Dan would be around when Eloise shoots older/future Dan.

Is this some sort of cruel joke?! I clicked on "continue reading" and it took me to the comments of the previous post.

Remember the guy in the hatch who found Desmond. Wasn't he wearing a radiation suit. He also wore it each time he left so, maybe, the bomb was exploded, which would explain why they put the suit on before leaving the hatch.

I can see new post is up but when I click to read it goes back to the old post...help

Daniel marching guns ablazing into the camp wearing a Dharma shirt pointing a gun at Ra, er, Richard Albert: He knew he had to go to the camp and die. It was a suicide mission. I think we will learn in a future episode how Daniel knew his fate. And Ra brought Ben back from near death, why not bring back Daniel?

I don't totally disagree with you Daniel, although I still thought up until it was said that Widmore and Hawking were siblings.

thank you, daniel--i was beginning to think it was just me--i didnt like it either and couldnt believe it when the darkUFO poll was so high for the episode being AWESOME

and there is something more to the widmore/hawking thing than an "island hookup"--her reaction was "how DARE you say that...!!"

I see some comments here about some of the time travellers being able to choose to stay behind or choose to erase the past and go forward.

Listening to Dan's plan, nobody has a choice to stay or go, they all stay or they all go. If Faraday is right about variables, then if someone were to chang the past, then this entire timeline ceases to exist.

For example, say Kate and Jack are able to detonate the H-bomb and the Swan is never built. There would be a huge explosion, then the Losties would ALL be back on the plane totally oblivious to what we watched for the last 5 seasons.

This means Boone is alive, Shannon is alive, Charlie is locked in the bathroom flushing drugs, Ana Lucia is alive on the plane, etc... One change, by one person would have a great impact on everyone on that plane. It would be as this entire show never existed, they simply land in LA and are all complete strangers.

anyone else stuck in a loop and can't read the rest of what daniel wrote..? irony eh?

Ok so I thought this ep. was great! It was nonstop from the beginning. It was never slow and it keep me interested the whole time. But of course I wish Hugo had some more on screen time. But anyways, a little surprised by Daniel's grade but whatever, I know he still loves the show and I'm not going to give him any grief about it. We all have our own opinions right?

It was OK

That's ok Daniel, I wasn't that crazy about this weeks episode either.

i never post here - but objectively, you have to really be a skeptic to think that last night was not great television.

think i will switch over to lostpedia where at least there is some analysis of what is going on...

so long, and thanks for taking the time.

But Mr. Factual what happens to Daniel, Miles, Penny.. people who's child self is killed in the blast?

CAM @8:58 - I agree. As much as I enjoy reading everyone's theories, I think it can take away from the novelty of the show. It wasn't a real big shock to the readers of this forum that Widmore was Faraday's father, but that the revelation of that relationship might have been surprising to people who just watch week to week and don't analyze it too deeply. Putting anything on too high of a pedestal will result in disappointment.

@T - good observation. Little Daniel would presumably be in the Indigenous camp/Hostiles or off island already. And would be older than the, what, 4 or 5 yr. old Charlotte?

Daniel - I thought this was a 'C' episode only because we're getting deeper into some theories. I agree that I think the writers are trying to get out of a corner (yea if it's for free will...) I also thought the dialog was iffy. Daniel annoyed me much more than Charlotte's accent...

@AZWildcat, welcome back to WHH club (for now), we will send you your t-shirt soon. lol!

i never post here - but objectively, you have to really be a skeptic to think that last night was not great television.

think i will switch over to lostpedia where at least there is some analysis of what is going on...

so long, and thanks for taking the time.

seriously, now that i think about it i dont see how kate and jack can succeed, if they do then that ends the series right there...how the heck are they supposed to stretch this out for a whole nother season without the island?? there's still too much to tell us.

@ Mr Factual | April 30, 2009 09:25 AM

BUT you can change the past, you cannot change your experiences. Their memory wouldn't automatically erase and they wouldn't automatically jump back to 2004.

i have to admit that i secretly thought it was funny when radinsky yelled "ive been shot by a physicist!" to sawyer

Oh Daniel, I think you're being a little hard on the episode, don't you think? I mean, some of the stuff was hokey, but a D-? No way!

@ Buttercup: My husband said the same thing last night...not sure how it will play out

@ Victoria: LOL -- I loved that part too! How random!

jack did ask dan why he needed a gun to talk to his mother...he said you don't know my mother. could have been a suicide mission or could have been he really thought he could change the result somehow...

@Seattleguy. They were never killed in the blast, it is still WHH until someone breaks the rules.

Penny was never on the island, remember Widmore had an affair off island with an outsider. She would be fine.

Daniel, not sure if he is born on the island or off, my guess is off island. Either way we know he survives because Mom survived "The Incident".

Miles, born on the island, but we know him and his mother also left the island. I am guessing what Faraday told Dr Chang starts to sink in a little bit and he sends his family away for safety, along with little Charlotte.

What Faraday was trying to stop is "The Incident" we have heard about for years. This all happened already and we know some people survive it, WHH.

Personally, I don't think they stop "The Incident", I truley believe they CAUSE the Incident.

Lostpedia has ugraded Daniel's photo is framed in red, which means that he is dead....I had hoped that Richard would heal him. I am sad, I loved Daniel.

I hate it too. I've never been more disappointed in a lost episode than I was last night.

Daniel - I was really irked by Faraday toting the gun openly into the camp. It made no sense. And you're surrounded by armed people - do ya think walking into the middle wouldn't get you shot from whatever side you couldn't defend?

And - yes. Le Fleur saying Freckles. We're supposed to believe he so wants to be with Juliet (which I have never believed) - overt shots of them holding hands, longing eyes, etc. - and yet, this comes out of his mouth?

Now I remember reading that Le Fleur continues to lie... - and that would likely include his true feelings towards these wimmins. But then just have it be that way. Don't try to manipulate us to believe he and Juliet are 'a true thing.'

And Juliet is out for blood now.

I love how Faraday forgot he had a gun in his hand when Radzinsky showed up. He started gesturing with his gun hand. Radzinsky was like, dude's packing, and then everyone ducked for cover and a hockey game with guns broke out.

Daniel: I agree actually with you. Everything was hyped up for two weeks--100th episode blah, blah, blah....and then this. It could have been better. I wouldn't give it a D-, because I can't give LOST anything below a C-. But it was pretty lame for LOST standards. And TOTALLY FUNNY about the Jack being good in a shootout even though he is a doctor---I said the EXACT SAME THING to my hubby last night. Too funny. Thanks for posting every week. =~)

Going back to what 'T' said - Daniel is already born in 1977 - as he is older than Charlotte (in the 2004 time) and she's on island.

@CAM, first I am not sold on it and I hope it doesn't go this route. But that is what Faraday was proposing, if the Swan is never built then Flight 815 never crashes on the island.

I referenced the Butterfly Effect movie, but Back to the Future works too. If they do change something in the past, then they alter their present/future as well. As Hurley said in WHH, he was waiting to disappear.

They never experience any thing on the island at all, there plane simply lands in LA and they all walk off strangers, and alive. Trust me, I hate this myself, I hope it is wrong. But that is what they are proposing by changing the past.

Don't forget Charlotte was born in 1971 and we don't know when Daniel was born....yet

I'm not understanding the confusion about the lostie's past & present; to me it is very clear. It may help some of you to literally draw a timeline and tag where they are as you move from left to right.

Daniel- I don't have Tivo- so I don't get to go back and revisit the episodes. I never made the connection between Hawkings and Widmore. Maybe I was the only one. I thought Daniel did an excellent job of playing a loony scientist but he had a lot on his shoulders. After all, some Lost episodes are just to build up to a really important one. Yes, it was really cheesey with the Desmond scene. I don't think Desmond is the most beloved character- Why don't you have a vote? I like Sawyer now that he has got his act together.

It wasn't a super episode. It was I think just a set up to the finale. They need to move on from time travel because it's giving me a headache. It does make me wonder what next season will be about leading to the series finale.

personally,I didn't like last nights episode either. I was very disappointed because we had to wait two weeks for that mess.

No matter how bad an episode, if it has Des and Pen hugging with tears it will always get an 'A' from me!
Does anyone else think Eloise had something to do with whatever went wrong with Dan's Theresa experiment? Just to get her out of the picture?

I thought the "grade" or measurement for an episode was base on how much it revealed (how much our host, Daniel, had to tell someone to catch up.) So I guess some of us were really stoopid, because we debated Eloise and Widmore's connection (we should have intuitively known they we an item on the island. Even though the nano-second we saw them as youger, hotter, people, the seemed to hate each other like siblings.) And everyone knew Widmore sunk the fake 815 (even though we debated that because the Freighter captain told Sayid and Des it was Ben.) We should have intuitively known that was garbage. We should have known Daniel was Widmore's son, right. We have the DNA somewhere (got it from CSI Miami last week.) There was nothing revealed at all. Like that card game Charlotte and Daniel were doing around the fire. That wasn't about his failing memory, that was some parlor trick they were trying to perfect for their Vegas act. We all knew when we saw Daniel in the Orchid a few epi's back carrying that cylinder that it was 1977 and that he would try to stop the "Incident" in a six hour time gap by exploding a dirty H-bomb. I have another four or five things that were tied together for me, but you have probably stopped reading. If I knew all this stuff before this episode, I would give it a D- also. Boy, do I feel dumb.

@jenn3 - in 96 he's at Oxford and is at least post-grad if not full-fledged physicist. So he's gotta be already born (pre 1977) - unless they start the silliness of child prodigy theory. That would be lame.

Best line: Hurley "you guys were in Fonzie time?"

@ fanolost - Daniel did comment to Hawking to get off his back he was the youngest to get a degree from Oxford....

@flashest monk: hilarious! and I completely agree!

Ok, I do disagree with Daniel's grade & opinion on the episode, and here's why...

This is LOST we are talking about. You can't take the episode simply for what it is, but for what it MEANS. Yes it is true that the episode was a little anti-climactic, but it answered some interesting questions, and it opens more doors for future episodes and most importantly - how this show MAY actually end.

Furthermore, it feels like these diary posts are reading like a summary of the episode without any kind of real critical analysis, or theory-building. Theory discussion is the most important (and fun) parts of watching LOST, but I find these diary posts havent been opening up much for discussion, besides what us commenters bring to the table.

I'm not a Daniel hater, I'm just trying to point out that a lot of LOST episodes could be deemed crappy if we arent looking at it the right way, not for what it IS but what it means or what future episodes will be as a result.

from lostpedia:

FARADAY: Yes. You've made it abundantly clear. Why would I waste my gift on a woman--

MS. HAWKING: I'm sorry to tell you, Daniel, but you're not going to have time for relationships. The women in your life will only be terribly hurt.

FARADAY: What does that mean?

MS. HAWKING: It means that your work will always comes first, that's all.

FARADAY: Only because that's what you always push me to do. You pushed and you pushed and you pushed. And when will it be enough, Mother? When? I'm the youngest doctorate ever to ever graduate from Oxford. I just got a new 1.5 million pound research grant. What else do I have to do?

Although this isn't why I was looking at the trascript...this comment from Daniel is hilarious IMO

Why would I waste my gift on a woman--

@jenn3 - that's degree - I'm talking post grad. And last night, do we have a year for that little graduation? And Theresa may be years away from being traumatized. It's really not clear - but I really can't see him not being born by 1977. JMO of course.

@Krisitn - HAHAHA, I giggled...

Thoughts on last night...
1. Last night made it appear that Eloise and Widmore are working together, especially in terms of getting Daniel onto the island. If this is true, why does Eloise help Ben get back to the island? Is it possible that Ben and Widmore are really working for the same thing?

2. Could Daniel be the "wise man" who created the room that Eloise used to send Ben and the 815 survivors back to the island? Could that be part of the reason why she pushed Daniel so hard regarding his "work."

On another note...

3. Since Locke returned to the island, I have developed a theory, perhaps just an observation, about the island's "undead." My theory is that there are at least 2 different types of undead on the show. The first is your traditional ghost, spirit, apparition. They appear to people on the island as needed for the island's purposes. I think Christian and the recent appearance of Alex fall within this category.

The second type is those who were actually dead who are now actually alive, and do everything a living, breathing person does (eat, drink, sleep, fornicate, etc.). The one person who appears in this category is John Locke. But might Richard Alpert also fall into this category? It could explain why RA is "ageless." If so, when/how did he die? Could John Locke now also be ageless?

I thought last night's episode was fine. Solid B effort.

@fanolost - they did put forth the prodigy theory (not a child, but certainly younger than everyone else). Daniel states he is the youngest person to receive a PhD from Oxford.

not arguing with you fanolost, I think you are probably right, I was just responding to your comment "unless they start the silliness of child prodigy theory. That would be lame."

Thank God! I thought I was the only one who was totally disappointed with this episode. Of course, I have HATED Farady from the beginning. He was my Charlie.

I'm not going to say I hated the eposide, but I certainly didn't get anything out of it. I'm curious how Sawyer and Juliet are going to get out of their situation, but that's about it.

is anyone having trouble viewing the entire post?..

is anyone having trouble viewing the entire post?..

@jenn3 - ok. But ... if he's born in 1977 (meaning she is pregnant now, or just gave birth) - that means in 2004 he's 27. That's pretty darn young to have graduated - twice, put together a time travel machine, messed with your mind, the mind of your girlfriend, etc.

He can't be that much younger... it just won't make sense.

Plus, if his mum just starts to push him at say 12 - when we saw him have that talk with his mum - that's a late start for a prodigy.

@jenn3 - saw the post about ok... so ok!

ok!

Does anyone else think that once Lost is over, there will be Lost Conventions, dressing up as characters, etc. etc., like there is for Star Trek?

@ berky - I totally said that this morning the costumes won't be as exciting though

@Lost Dude- thank you- that was another thing on my list that was revealed to me (but evidently already know to our host Daniel). I learned from this episode that Eloise was complicit in helping Widmore with his freighter project. Because after Widmore personally visited and recruited Daniel (Miles got Naomi, who was two levels down, she reported to Abaddon.) Anyway, Eloise used the same selling points as Widmore to convince Daniel to get on the freighter (the island will heal you, you will be able to continue your work.) It was almost like Widmore slapped her hand, like a tag team, and sent her into the room to work on the poor kid. I got a big insight into Eloise's role in the overall play. To answer your question #1- in my stoopid opinon, I wouldn't say she is on team Widmore (I think being an ex-lover kills the notion that she would collaborate with him on a large project) but she is cooperative when the situation suits her needs, just like she cooperated with Ben later on (and she clearly showed she hates Ben. I thought she was going to blow chunks when Penny asked her if Ben was her son.) One of many things I learned in this episode. Glad someone else picked up on that as a reveal.

I think I know how they are going to end Lost....they are going to change the future so that their plane does not crash on the island and they will only be strangers at baggage claim. Did anyone else think that from last night's episode?

@Lostwithlost - I think it was you - I can't keep going back - LOL
You mentioned "Where's Christian" in 1977 and the fact that he wasn't on the island - but we don't know that - because we didn't meet the DI's REAL Doctor, yet. Remember, he was off somewhere when they needed him for Ben.

The conventions would probably be in Hawaii - hopefully Terry O'Quinn would be there. I'm fascinated that he's from Newberry, Michigan, a town just a little bigger than mine in Michigan.

A blog is designed for all to express opinions --- who cares about what "grade" we give the episode.

I do think, however, that we did learn a lot about Daniel Faraday. He was very gifted in all areas, but Eloise pushed and pushed him to achieve in the sciences. He wanted to have a healthy relationship with his girlfriend, and was forever altered after she went into the vegetative state.

Jeremy Davies' portrayal of Daniel Faraday has been perfect; terrific acting all times he was on the screen.

I hope that we see much more of him --- either dead or alive!

The episode also shows how the O6 and the rest of the Losties finally left the DI. SHows how there is still a rift between Kate and Juliet. Hurley had GREAT lines ---- "you were in 1954??" Miles had to face his father after Dr. Whatever was told that Miles was his son. Eloise shot Daniel. Desmond and Penny were on.

COME ON! THIS WAS A GREAT EPISODE!

also i liked when dan tried the jedi mind trick on radinsky and company by saying we're just gonna leave...i love when they do that. like with locke at the outriggers with iliana and company...
what does lie in the shadow of the statue...hmmmm

Question.. Theoretically - if little Daniel is still out there.. he can still grow up and go through the same experiences.. come across the previous Dan's journal, go back to the Island, and this time, not get shot?? Of course 30 years will have to pass again.. but it's a thought.

I'm still stuck on the Daniel to Dr. Chang explaination of Miles being his son!!! LOL. I really think it was a continuity error by the writers...disappointing if so.

ok, i didn't read anything past daniel's remarks because i don't have the time... but to me the episode was a stinker - with the exception of the fact that it set us up for what comes next. my prediction - all that stuff about variables - clearly jack and kate are the variables in this situation, jacks a doctor, he will come to the rescue and save faraday and thus begin a new chain of events that will impact the future.... i think..

Yes Kristin - I think Eloise had something to do with Dan's girlfriend, too. However, I just think – through seeing the future, she knew her fate and chose not to change the outcome. This way she ensured she wouldn't be in Dan's way - when they needed him to fulfill their destiny or prophecy, etc. I can't tell if it's destiny or prophecy.

Mrs. Hawkins manipulates her own son, into goin back to the island, where she knows she is going shoot him.

not like she is creepy enough allready.

At
she was sexy in the 50's

How can you hate a lost episode even it it wasn't the best in your opinion?

- some questions were definitely confirmed. jeez people just because someone had a good guess about something doesn't mean its a bad something if you expect everything to be a surprise go play the stock market

- the lady who played eloise hawkings is a fantastic actress you could see all her emotions fluttering across her face

- knowing daniel's past and present (dead or not)was long overdue and tragic oh so tragic (anyone else find it interesting how eloise told daniel that all the women in hs life have tragic lives - including her? something like that I'll have to go rewatch)

-jack and kate trekking through the jungle again some things never change.

- the scene where the losties had their meeting was perfect! even saywer calling faraday 'twitchy' i was like "sawyer's back!"

-jack's back - he doctored, he made decisions that made sawyer mad, he's gonna try and be hero again. I don't care who doesn't like jack I do!

I could call out a few more but I don't think daniel cares he's made his opinion well known and its a bit unreasonable if you ask me.

Daniel has already changed time. His hair is longer when he cries in front of the TV in this timeline.

I thought this episode was great!
Yes, we could all see the "shock" moments coming from a mile away, but I still enjoyed them all as they unfolded :D
I really hope Dan isn't dead though!

yep.. just because the writers "told" us "this is how it is." welp.. looked like thats not true. always said never a fan of the whh.. I was kind of disspointed too last night.. i was waiting for something - dont know what - and next thing i know, it's 9:55. but its cool. i love lost anyways.

fanolost 10:08 remember when daniel was at lunch with his mom he said something about being the youngest doctoral student to graduatge from oxford and received a 1.4 (i believe) million dollar grant all before 24 (I think) more numbers!

I think they were sent back to change things, but really can't change - can only alter the same outcome another way. And for all we know, this could be Faraday's 10th time traveling back in time to try to fix what can't be fixed, but can be changed to happen another way = whether it be good or bad.

if Widmore wants to find the island why didn't he jump on one of the plane he knew was going to crash land there?

Look forward to your weekly commentary. BTW, I love Prince too. He can do know wrong in my book. His Super Bowl performance from years ago still rings fresh in my mind.

@ glee - Fionnula Flanagan (Eloise) rocks. I've seen a couple movies she's been in and she totally embodies the roles I think.

I feel kind of sad Daniel hated this episode. I thought he'd feel some very positive "wtf?!" moments, not negative ones. I still appreciate he has the blog so we all have a place to screw off during work/school and postulate theories. Perhaps the people who said we've been putting Lost on a pedastel and are thus becoming jaded are right though.

I can't remember who said it and frankly don't want to search the page for it, but the wise man that built the Lamp Post? I'm not so sure it was Daniel. He was in Ann Arbor for three years, but the Lamp Post was in L.A.

Just curious as to why Daniel-the-blogger thinks Daniel-the-hot-geeky-physicist isn't dead? I think he is. That's why Eloise had to visit Desmond -- as she says, its the first time in a long time that she doesn't know what will happen (ie, the first time she hasn't read it in her son's journal). Eloise and Widmore clearly knew this would happen. *Don't talk to me about sacrifice* She seemed like a lousy mom all along, but this took the cake.

I'm guessing that the season ends with Jack and Kate deciding whether to change the past, and stop the crash. Nonetheless, I've long said that I wouldn't be surprised by an ending in which the past changes, and Boone, Shannon, Charlie, Eko, Libby, Cindy and the rest of our intrepid gang get off the plane in LA. (Hopefully, they'll leave Niki and Paolo out.)

Flashest monk 9:53 right on you said what I am thinking but with much more wit.

Faraday's dead. Jack wants to take Faraday's lead and detonate the HBomb, at which he'll fail somehow. The Incident happens. The time travelers join the Hostiles, where they will emerge from the temple in 2007 30 years older to find Sun, John Locke and Ben Linus. End Season 5.

@ glee - I posted the transcript of that conversation above. It was 1.5 million pounds and he didn't mention his age, at least not in that section of the transcript.

I thought that when Whidmore visited Dan when he was crying on the couch that Dans brain was fried from the time travel experiments did anyone else think that

Also not the best episode I guess I expected more it being the 100th and all. I thought that Eloise would reveal more about the hostiles to Dan

I felt Eloise seemed cold hearted to send her son back knowing what would happen The hostiles do seem cold in nature. I might have to jump on the benwagon now, maybe Hurley would call it the nerdmobile

oops that was me annon at 10:48am

@Posted by: suede66 | April 30, 2009 08:22 AM
I think everything still gets built, as the hatch, etc. So Desmond's fate will still be in the hatch - I just mean his fate isn't over and he is probably going to have to return to the Island, again. But as far as the hatch, etc. - Like I said earlier - I believe things can be altered, but are still going to happen one way or another.

Hm. I thought it was a very good episode.

I think Richard is the only character who understands almost everything about the island. I don't think Mrs. Hawking, Ben nor Whidmore know the full story.

Did anyone else think Daniel was totally going to shoot Richard?! I was on the edge of my seat.

I think based on what Mrs. Hawking said to Whidmore and then slapping him, confirms that Daniel died when he was shot by her younger self. That's that. It's not that Danieil now has never existed, he still did, he was just killed in his "1977" present.
Remember, Daniel said to Jack "This is our present now," referring to their 1977 situation.

Something I don't understand is how he "went to Ann Arbor" and then came back to the island in 1977. So was he living in 1977 Ann Arbor? I guess so...

I don't think Kate is really thinking on the right track right now, most of them aren't. I also don't want them to erase all events and end up landing safely and never becoming friends and stuff.

I don't think the show will end like that. If it were to though, or do something similar, perhaps there will be a way around it where they all still become acquaintences.

But I mean, then does Sun never have the baby?

I think the dialogue was poor most the time.

Can't wait to see what happens next week to LaFleur and friends...

I will never stop watching this show though! No matter what they do I'm proud to say I have always been a devoted Lostee!

@glee - yeah I remember, but we don't have a date. What I'm saying is if he's born in 1977 - he's 27 in 2004 - that's young for all he's accomplished. So the question is whether Eloise is pregnant when she shoots him, or if he's running around camp.

Yea! Goldilocks is jumping on the Benwagon too! Flashest won't admit that he's on it, but he occasionaly takes short trips on the Benwagon.

I wonder why Richard told Dan Eloise was not there when clearly she was

Yes - Posted by: Goldilocks | April 30, 2009 10:49 AM
I thought that Daniel's brain was probably fried from doing time traveling over and over. That's why I said - he could of traveled to 1977 10 times already that we don't know about. And each time, the island revives his intelligence and maybe when he leaves the island - he goes back into mummy mode, ie distracting his memory of the island and his knowledge of time traveling to the island.

No, I didn’t read everyone’s post, I'm sorry. I just saw the episode online, don’t have a television yet.

I disagree with Daniel, I don’t think the episode was horrible. It did answer many questions, yes, we figured out a few things before hand, but it’s validating to hear it in plain English. Now things have been set up for the next phase.

Do I think this is the end of Daniel Faraday? No. I believe they will have Jack jump in and save him. The look on young Ellie’s face said as much. And Richard appears to be in the game – what’s strange to everyone else seems normal to him. It’s as if he’s just waiting for the next step to take place. He’s always calm and has his wits about him, he’s never in a panic. And is it me, or did that eyeliner get a little thicker? I expected him to change before our eyes into an Egyptian prince or demigod—the tan, the eyeliner, the chiseled body. Are they transforming him?

I still believe Locke has the ability to get everyone back in their proper places — correct periods. Or, he is a link to something or someone else that brings that change.

It was good to see more of Daniel’s back-story; it explains why he pushes himself so much, and why he’s crazed over trying to “fix” or “change” outcomes. The poor guy is so tortured. But, my question is, does Ellie have the ability to predict the future? Is she clairvoyant? Or is she a voyeuristic time traveler. What’s the deal with her?

I think Hurley and Jin will go back and save Juliet and Sawyer, and get to the beach. This next phase will probably end where it started, on the beach. They will all meet there (including Locke and Sun) to get “back to the future.”

Yes - Posted by: Goldilocks | April 30, 2009 10:49 AM
I thought that Daniel's brain was probably fried from doing time traveling over and over. That's why I said - he could of traveled to 1977 10 times already that we don't know about. And each time, the island revives his intelligence and maybe when he leaves the island - he goes back into mummy mode, ie distracting his memory of the island and his knowledge of time traveling to the island.

@isadora fiend, WHH is still true and still the rules of time travel on LOST until someone can break the rules.

Last night simply explained that Faraday found a loop hole to the WHH rules and was going to try and change the past. Unfortunately Dan became a victim of WHH, because momma already knew his fate if he could not change things. And a gun shot to the back could not be changed in time, so RIP Faraday.

My opinion, WHH and Free Will are not exclusive, but can work together. The writers explained to us their set of rules regarding time travel, the WHH. But if everything simply followed WHH to the bitter end, then it isn't much of a story. So they need to introduce us to the variable, somewhere in this story is a hero capable of overcoming the rules.

As the writers have stated, they don't want a bunch of paradoxes bogging down the story. This isn't a show about time travel, this is a show that incorporates time travel into the overall story. So they kept it as paradox free as possible, by using the Causal Loop as their method of time travel.

So WHH can stay the rules that 99% of the characters have to follow. But our hero is going to be the variable, the one who finds a way to break the rules and actually change something. I am one of the biggest supporters of WHH on here, but I also fully believe that there is someone special whom the rules don't apply, whom is special. Hmmm, that sounds familiar.. lol!

All I am saying is to not be so quick to say, X happened, so Y can't. If someone special breaks the rules, it doesnt mean the rules never were, it simply means someone was able to overcome the rules. Same goes for me, just because I believe in WHH doesn't close my mind on a possible change to a past, present or future event.

@Cally k - I'm figuring faraday left the island sometime after 1974 'landing' in the sub, to work at DI headquarters for a spell... but yeah - the interaction is like a ripple effect... living in a time when you originally are a baby ...

Here is a theory on The War: over what and between whom. The Others have gone thru an awful lot of trouble to make sure time has gone unchanged. Ellie sacrificed her son, Widmore influenced Locke, hired the Freighter, etc. Ben also has had a part in “keeping things on track” and having history unfold as it should. Clearly the Others have a stake in keeping these as they are.

So, it would make sense that the other participant in this war has no such stake. In fact, they want time to change - they don't want things to unfold the way they did before - there very mission to is somehow change the course of history. Ex: the men in the truck told miles not to go to the island, etc. Now it appears Jack is going to try and take over Daniels cause. Therefore, perhaps it is a War between the Others and the Losties after all.

Furthermore, this could potentially unfold like the Matrix – same things happen over and over again… w/slight changes. Maybe this is why these characters are so connected and why the numbers appear time and time again – because they have in some ways lived those moments.

i agree with your rant. last night's episode did not do it for me and i don't want everything to be undone. that would suck!

@Diana - one thing with your theory. Sun and Locke are in 2007 and Hurley, etc. are in 1997. So they are going to need something on the island (miracle or regular event on the island - lol - to happen) before they can all meet up on the beach. But when they do get in the same time frame or if they do - I bet they'll all meet up on the beach like you said. And Sayid might be the one to help Sawyer and Juliet, too, because we know he's running wild on the island. lol

Eloise can't predict the future -- she's read it in Daniel's journal, which she took from him in 1977.

Daniel's brain was fried by time travel experiments. He said as much when he said that he tried it on himself before he tried it on Teresa. She just suffered more. Remember Charlotte playing the memory games with Daniel when the Freighter Tots first came to the Island? That was seeing if the Island was healing him. Why he was crying when he saw the fake 814 plane? Maybe he traveled to the Island in one of his time travel experiments. Or maybe, as he said, it was just sad.

So, less serious note here (and, for the last time, I am not on the Benwagon- Jenn3!!!!)

When Sawyer (yes, LeFleur officially died somewhere between Sawyer calling Kate "Freckles" and the nano-second it took Juliet to give Jack the code to the sonar fence)when he says to Daniel Faraday:

"So, your Mother's an Other?"

Did anyone think of the Seinfeld when Kramer had a tip on a horse to bet because it was raining. "The horse's Mother was a Mudder and his Father was a Mudder." (and they kept on repeating that. It was the episode when they all took the subway somewhere. Jerry to Coney Island w/ the naked guy; George handcuffed to the bed; Elaine standing up for the lesbian wedding.)

@letsnotsay- so, when Eloise told Des to watch the guy with the red shoes, and then he gets killed by a collapsing scaffold. That was a trick? I think she gets flashes of the future like Des, IMO.

@ flashest - i said you were on only for short trips LOL! alright ... I will back off for now... until you can't help yourself and side with Ben ... again.... where's my co-recruiter Tootsie?

whoa - thought. what if the plane that is at the bottom of the ocean really is 815? what if all of the stuff that the losties do to change things just means that instead of crashing on Magic Island, they crash into the ocean? Widmore said it was expensive to put the plane there, well he paid all those freighter people millions and millions of dollars to get to the island and cause these things to happen

@ mlm - hhhhmmmmmmmmmmmmmmm oddly, that makes more sense and is easier to swallow then someone digging up 300 graves and no one commenting on it.....Thanks LOST!

I somewhat agree with you, we got a lot of confirmations to things we already knew. wasn't so sure about the daniel-widmore connection but wasn't the least bit surprised.

The only thing that "wow-ed" me last night was that i think that Hawkins is the female Ben, it is obvious that she will manipulate whoever she needs to for the sake of this island. I wonder if she atones like Ben did, perhaps thats how he knew how to do it...just a thought

I think Kate will mess up the plan somehow because she does NOT want the original plane to land safely. She's go to prison.
Also, Hurley wasn't happy, Sawyer wasn't happy, Jack wasn't happy. Would ANY of the original losties really want to forget the island and just land the plane? I don't think so.

This could be another variable that Faraday hadn't considered. Losties don't want to go back to their old lives.

@mlm - now there's a creepy thought - but wouldn't the plane 'crash' beecause of the electro whatever? And if they don't have that this cycle time (as in free will totally undoes the merry-go-round cycle) what would do it? Unless it's your destiny and these folks are destined to die no matter what.

Which, OK, I'll play Daniel: The Unusuals was all about DESTINY last night and when it's your time, it's your time. Including a psychic playing off Michael's (as in Lost's Michael) paranoias of being too safe...

@flashest - yep, LeFleur died right before my eyes when he opened the door to Faraday and said, "Welcome back, Twitchy!"

I laughed out loud and said to myself, "Well, Sawyer's back!"

Did we ever see Daniel crying about the flight? Daniel said we were "back to" it. Didn't we just see Frank crying about the crash and not knowing why?

I confess, I forgot about Eloise's encounter with Desmond. BUT that may well have been from the journal as well, she told him as a kid, he wrote it down, he takes it back to 1977, so she knows in ... my head is spinning. I still think that she no longer knows what happens because it all ended with Daniel.

@Jenn3- just kidding, I do think Ben is in the top 3 most interesting characters (let's be clear though, no man crush.) Didn't Tootsie say last night that she had heavy work stuff, and would be "cutting and pasting" in answers? Its hard to put in pro-Ben stuff when he was only mentioned once in the episode (by Eloise, when she gagged at the thought of him being her son.)

@Asiram- yep, Twitchy and then he told him to help himself to the pound cake and punch. I gotta admit, I like Sawyer a heck of alot more than LeFleur (not a man crush, Jenn3, just sayin'.)

What I mean is, they blow up Jughead, destroy the electro-magnetic force like Daniel wanted. When Losties get on the plane from Australia to LA, their radio fails, and the plane crashes in to the ocean instead of being pulled into the island by the electromagnetic release.

Well, I'm obviously not as smart as you, because no where did I realize that Dan was going to release the hydrogen bomb to deflect the energy and change everything until I saw this episode. I'd say that is a pretty major plot point that I didn't see coming, and that made this episode a great episode for me. Daniel's plot to change the future is setting in motion the next few episodes and eventually the finale. So you might not like it this week, but next week when Jack begins to carry out his plan, you might realize this episode set in motion great events.

This was a great episode! Daniel (the blogger) is too jaded or something?? I haven't had time to read all the posts, but I like what I've read so far. One thing I'm thinking of is Widmore and Eloises' memories. Maybe they didn't always have the memory of the Losties/Freighters back in the 50s and 70s. Maybe it came to them as it was happening in the Losties present in the 50s/70s. So they would wake up with the memories like Desmond did. So she didn't always know that would happen to Daniel until after it happened. Eloise has a nightmare and then crap I shot my son! Or maybe they always had the memories and she always knew she shot him. IDK? I guess that goes back to the WHH debate. So maybe when Widmore and Hawking were discussing things at the hospital they both had just remembered Daniel being shot in the 70s. Does this make sense? I keep going back to the covo between Locke and Widmore and he asked how long has it been for you. Locke said a couple days or something. Maybe Widmore just had that memory come to him and didn't always have it.

@mlm - so you're going with the destiny that they all need to die? Doesn't matter the island isn't the cause, Oceanic will go down - some other way (storm or malfunction).

Is that right? Or am I misreading?

Long time reader/fan first time commenting. I really like Farraday and enjoyed the epi just to see him and more of his story. The scene with Desmond/Penny in the hospital room was worth an "A" alone. Lost is not capable of being bad even on its worst day.

@ flashest - see you just can't say no all the way to the Benwagon.

You are right Tootsie did say that last night.

I also think LaFleur was slowly dying as soon as the 3 showed up in 1977 but everytime he said Freckles he died a little more and finally completely died when he smashed Phil in the face (who by the way I saw him in that new show Southland)

@ fanolost - I guess so...Damn I really hate the idea of destiny, of things already being decided for us in life lol. But I guess if the Charlie situation taught us anything in the Lost-iverse, you stop one thing from happening one way, it's gonna come back another way and another way and another way until it succeeds.

@Asiram- I also thought it was strange how LeFleur gathered everyone into the living room to talk about what to do next, and then he was taking a vote, Dharma Dork-style. It was reminescent of what Horace did when they were deciding Sayid's fate. I think the Twitchy moment was his inner Sawyer coming out and saying, this is f-ing ridiculous. Unfortunately, when we last saw Sawyer, he was face down on the floor being manicled by Dharma Dorks. I bet now that he has been "busted" by Phil and Radzinsky, he will be treating his captors just like he mouthed off to Ben and the Others at the Hydra.

My head is spinnig from trying to over think the whole time traveling, WHH, variables, etc. I think Desmond explained it best after trying to save Charlie - the universe has a way of correcting itself. No matter what they do, somehow they have to crash on the island.

@Janet- Welcome. I agree, any scene with Des and Penny is good. He renewed his vow to never leave her. Wondering if that will be kept?

I thought the scene with Daniel and Eloise after graduation was well acted. When he told her about his grant from Widmore, you could see the pain in her eyes, and then she furtively hid her eyes from Daniel when he looked up.

The later scene when he asked her if she was proud of him was equally good. I thought the writing and acting was excellent last night. I totally disagree with our host. The writers are pushing the story along and tieing up the loose ends as they move forward.

On destiny: I believe in having a destiny but I also believe that it is up to us to fulfill our destiny. I think that Hawkings is the same, she knew that Daniel had to take the correct actions to fulfill his destiny. The same is for everyone else on the island, they have a destiny but it is up to them and their choices/actions to fulfill it.

@mlm - me too with the Destiny. So how about, in the ultimate island over man, the island still has enough juju to crash Oceanic - just to seal the deal, close any/all loops, fix the space/time continuum, course correct. And it just happens to crash upon a certain drifting sailboat.

Not because it was their destiny, but to keep the world on course, their interference caused the need.

@cam - and when your destiny is fulfilled - what? Death? Just askin...

maybe... when the island is done with you death seems to be the next step

AGREED. TOTALLY HATED THIS EPISODE! could barely keep my attention, annoyed the hell outta me,faradays obnoxious whining and crying grated on my nerves.even though the writers tried getting action in there,i was still bored stiff.i think a d- was actually generous! ugh,way to go 100th episode..you blew!

Oh ugh...I depressed the board. Sorry guys. It's just that people were discussing earlier this morning about how they thought the possible end of the show was 815 landing safely. It occurred to me that what if the plane was never supposed to land in L.A. Did anyone have anything good to go back to there?

mlm- Don't be ridiculous (can anyone guess that one) You didn't depress anyone anymore than the people who brought the possibility of the plane landing safely and no one knowing each other :) LOL

I thought this episode wasn't too bad. I liked it until the guns started to come out, then it was like 'ya right'. I would give a C+

@mlm - yeah, what jenn3 said. I like your theory. And Cam's.

I'm noticing though, less than 300 posts and we're already straying into the 'what if' land.

This usually happens during a hiatus/recap week, summer, or when the episode didn't give enough for us to gnaw on... bummer.

I do think some of the 'aha' moments were less 'aha' because of this blog - which says a ton about the group in general - and that's in a good way!

I thought lastnight's show was great. Although I am more confused now than ever! Why would Farraday's Mother send him back to the Island knowing he would die?! And if their plane lands safely in LA then it means Kate goes to jail...and will the Losties even know one another? I will be so pissed if that's how they end the show! Sorry if I've repeated anything, I haven't read through all the comments yet.

and where are ssarah and LSK? Would love their input (even if Keamy wasn't spotted on the telly last evening...)

Worst possible series ending - history is changed, the plane doesn't crash, they all land in L.A. and don't know each other at all. These wonderful, inventive writers HAVE to come up with something better than that!

@ jenn3 and fanolost - thanks guys :o)

I do hope the end of Lost isn't going to be a depressing end, because it's already sad that it has to end in the first place.

@tg - Hasn't Locke or Christian told Sun that they can get her to Jin? That's how they will wind up on the beach at the same time, and Locke will take them all back to where they belong. It's Locke and maybe Ellie that get them back?

I'm watching the episode again, as I do homework.

Does anyone know what was on the cover of the "Wired" magazine Whitmore moved to the side before sitting down?

Hasn't the theory always been that if you mess with time, you create consequences.

@ Diana - I wondered that too! I know JJ Abrams was the guest editor of Wired recently, but I wonder if it was that issue or another.

I completely agree with Daniel! I felt like the writers of Lost were playing me for a fool. And Farraday's stuttering was getting really annoying. Does that guy ever just calmly have a cup of tea? I was very dissappointed with this episode.

About the "variables" Faraday said the past couldn't be changed, but now says he can because of the variables/people. I'm wondering if he's wrong since he just got shot(maybe dead) trying to change the "past", meaning the past can't be changed.

Also, did anyone hear(I'm sure you did) about "Desmond" getting sued for sexual harrasment? The accuser has since been fired and accused him of some pretty dirty stuff. The previous 3(Mr.Ecko,Libby and Ana Lucia) who had problems with the law(DUI'S) have all been killed off the show(yes Ana Lucia was brought back this year). Is it possible the same woulad happen for Desmond being such a key character in the show. Any thoughts???

@ Worst possible series ending - history is changed, the plane doesn't crash, they all land in L.A. and don't know each other at all. These wonderful, inventive writers HAVE to come up with something better than that!

Posted by: berky | April 30, 2009 12:13 PM

It can't be this, if it was this they would be ignoring the whole mythology of the island. I don't think the end will be that neat of and crappy of a wrap up.

@mlm, I don't think you depressed the blog at all, added some interesting insights is all I see. Kudos.

If anything I depressed myself with a hypothetical ending of this whole timeline vanishing from a change in the past. I thank Faraday for that one. It is not an ending I like or endorse, but it was more expanding on what Faraday was telling Jack and Kate.

The untangled video this week is hilarious!

http://www.facebook.com/album.php?aid=80162&id=576955508&ref=nf#/video/video.php?v=89699696432&ref=nf

Ok, I think the only true way to travel back in time is how Superman did it. While Earth spins on it's axis clockwise, Superman flys around the earth "counter-clockwise" thus making everything(including time) happen in reverse until Superman stops.

I mean, that makes more sense then whatever is on that island.

@ Jenn3 - You know, I'm sure you're right. When Daniel laid out his plan for changing the future, that must be a red herring. Lots of bloggers are noticing more red herrings than ever in this season.

@scott, yes we discussed the Desmond sex harrassment last week. The way I see it, opinion only, is that her story is she reported it to her supervisor on the show. She claims they did nothing, and later she was fired. So now she is suing Desmond and ABC. At this point ABC can't simply fire Desmond, as they would appear to admit that he was guilty, which in turn makes them look guilty for apparently not acting on her claim when she made it.

I am not saying or guessing who did or did not do whatever, I don't know and refuse to take a side. All I am saying is ABC and Des are now linked in a suit, so it would be in their best interest to support him (right or wrong) and let due process run its course.

And there is only one season left, so it is highly unlikely they scrap him and replace him. A lot of these cases end up settling out of court as well, so there is a chance this never sees the inside of a court room.

@berky, jenn3, et al - I do hope the writers realize they must 'splain smokie, temples, richard - the black rock, indigenous, richard, rose and bernard and heck, I could be verra happy with two episodes devoted to Vincent - and how he's been faring.

More on Eloise and Widmore - that is not a union out of love. Something evil lurks in that relationship.

I think that could take up half of the 20 episodes left. Then we need to make sure Sawyer finds a good woman (ahem), and the fate of the rest can be laid out.

I'm really afraid they've forgotten to continue the threads they started and are gonna lamely start knotting said threads with disappointing explanations.

Geez, I forgot that they need to get folks back to 'one' time (I would think). The Statue. Ajira group. Jacob. Wow, this is a lot of stuff for one season...

@scott - Lost didn't drop 'Jin' when he got a DUI, so...

Maybe the fact that Ana Lucia, Ecko etc got killed off is b/c thats what happened .. WHH, maybe the DUI's were coincidental anomolies... :)

@Jenn3 lol!!! Nice 1

Does anyone else think that Desmond and Penny's baby Charlie is somehow the same Lost Charlie? Maybe thats why Desmond was having all those premonitions. Somehow Penny and Dez give him up for adoption?

Didn't Jin get a DUI, he is still on the show.

Mr. Factual - I thought you would like that!!!!

@cam - yep. see my 12:42...

@ Craig | April 30, 2009 12:48 PM

Sorry, but that has been discussed and dismissed. Thought I would save you the trouble.

@Jenn3, or did you KNOW I would like it cause it already happened? :)

@Craig, I would have to say no, Charlie Hume is NOT Charlie Pace. But I can't officially rule it out, at the same time I got nothing to support it either. I take it a face value, he was simply named in honor of Charlie Pace.

@flashest, who said " I bet now that he (Sawyer)has been "busted" by Phil and Radzinsky, he will be treating his captors just like he mouthed off to Ben and the Others at the Hydra."

I sure hope so! I really liked sarcastic Sawyer. While I understand settling into the new life in 1974 (not much of a choice there), I never really did understand how wise-ass (nonetheless with a good heart under it all) Sawyer turned into that wimpy, by the book LeFleur - even his name is wimpy - Mr. Flower! :-)

@ Mr Factual - what have I opened myself to? All in the name of a joke :) LOL

I don't understand the reasoning for the death of Faraday. What was the purpose for Eloise sending him back knowing he would die. What was that reason? I'm sure it will all come out soon, but does anyone have any ideas?

@Jenn3, better then the alternatives. Been kind of nice in here today, lots of interesting ideas and no drama.

Time for me to head home from work, hope the conversations continue, check back tomorrow. Cheers!

@Asiram- see, just shows you what happens when you get tied down with a woman and a job. That's why I prefer the monk lifestyle, wheel's got to roll! (hahah)

@CAM- Untangled was great.

Widmore- to be forever known as "Baby Daddy"

I also loved the Fist Full of Dollars music when they had the shoot out at the OK Corral. Only thing Faraday was missing was the Clint's cigar, cowboy hat and serape. He has the squinty eyes.

I don't know if anyone has covered this yet, but it struck me when Faraday was discussing variables last night, did he mean that each of them individually were separate, unique variables that could alter the outcome in any number of ways if they act individually? Or are they, as a group, a variable, so that whatever any of them do, it affects the future in the same way. I only mention this because it seems that Faraday has now somehow affected the future, then the other Losties come along and do their part, then they affect the future, then Sawyer might do something, then he changes the future. So, who ultimately will be the savior of the island? I put my money on Desmond!!!

Its interesting ... Widmore's people killed Ben's daughter, with Ben sacrificing her to the Island. Ben then set out to kill Widmore's daughter, Penelope. But, instead, he set off the actions (Jack and the gang returning to the Island) that resulted in the death of Widmore's son, whom he and Mom-of-the-Year Eloise sacrificed to the Island.

Sawyer's not back. Sawyer's toast. He'll be gone in the finale. And the Ajira people are Dharma-revisited.

Craig, yea, we did discuss the Charlie idea.
But I don't really think we dismiss anything.

Little Charlie is liable to play some important part of this show.

I personally thought the nurse or Eloise were gonna grab little Charlie from the hospital while Penny was talking to Desmomnd.

@suzie- I thought the same thing when Penny ran off to talk to Des.

I was screaming at the tv set, don't leave your baby, Eloise is an Other, they steal children!!!! They steal children!!!!

I think I can explain this a little better......

Let's say today, me and let's use Fanolost (just for example) go back in time, and I hit FOL on the head and that's how the story is told. Everyone on this blog now would know in the past I hit FOL on the head...What happened happened. Now, Let's say at some point we go back in time again, this time FOL hits ME over the head. Everyone on this blog would now remember it as FOL hitting me over the head.....what happened happened, and that's the way it ALWAYS happened to everyone who hears the story in the future.....

Posted by: LostwithLost | April 30, 2009 07:51 AM

LostwithLost........this is RIGHT ON!!! This explains the experiences we all have that we know as "deja vous". When a "time traveller" (yes, I am certain they truly exist) does something that even minutely changes something that affects us, I think our brains kind of "skip", or perhaps there is an "overlap" of electrical impulses that occurs that make us think we have experienced an event before. I think we actually have, only something has altered the events that result in the sensation we know as "deja vous".

WOW, this is something I have tried to figure out all my life, and it took a awesome TV show to actually give me an answer to a lifelong question!!! THANKS LOST!!!!

maybe the H-bomb is what "lies in the shadow if the statue". that would be just like richard to mark the spot with a huge egyptian statue :) if the bomb is behind the statue and it somehow gets detonated, that could explain why there is only a foot left in 2004. BUT that would mean that detonating the bomb did not in fact prevent 815 from crashing.

fanolost,
WAY up there, did you mean that you thought maybe Eliie was impregnanted unwillingly?
like raped?
Maybe I misunderstood you. But it was an interesting idea.
It could be a reason Ellie left the island and never told Dan who his father was.

maybe the H-bomb is what "lies in the shadow if the statue". that would be just like richard to mark the spot with a huge egyptian statue :) if the bomb is behind the statue and it somehow gets detonated, that could explain why there is only a foot left in 2004. BUT that would mean that detonating the bomb did not in fact prevent 815 from crashing.

I think I can explain this a little better......

Let's say today, me and let's use Fanolost (just for example) go back in time, and I hit FOL on the head and that's how the story is told. Everyone on this blog now would know in the past I hit FOL on the head...What happened happened. Now, Let's say at some point we go back in time again, this time FOL hits ME over the head. Everyone on this blog would now remember it as FOL hitting me over the head.....what happened happened, and that's the way it ALWAYS happened to everyone who hears the story in the future.....

Posted by: LostwithLost | April 30, 2009 07:51 AM

LostwithLost........this is RIGHT ON!!! This explains the experiences we all have that we know as "deja vous". When a "time traveller" (yes, I am certain they truly exist) does something that even minutely changes something that affects us, I think our brains kind of "skip", or perhaps there is an "overlap" of electrical impulses that occurs that make us think we have experienced an event before. I think we actually have, only something has altered the events that result in the sensation we know as "deja vous".

WOW, this is something I have tried to figure out all my life, and it took a awesome TV show to actually give me an answer to a lifelong question!!! THANKS LOST!!!!

i apologize for the repeated post-my computer is acting weird

fleshest monk,
You yell at the TV too?
I thought maybe I was the only one who did that!

If we have an ending where Kate and Jack successfully change the past and they end up landing 815 safely in LA (even though we all know that is going to be screwed up for more than one LOSTie, starting with Kate going to jail) then I want the FULL BUTTERFLY EFFECT:

I want Al Gore as President
I want Sadam Hussein hosting his own reality show on FOX.
I want Roger Clemens admitting he took steriods.
I want Brad Pitt and Jennifer Anniston still married.
I want Bizarro World. Why should it just stop with flight 815, I want cats sleeping with dogs, I apocalypse of biblical proportions. If we have to suffer, then the whole world should suffer with us.

@suzie - um, I talk to the tv too..

But regarding your post on what I meant by Eloise and her pregnancy. I felt that little snippet between Widmore and she was a bit icey, downright cruel, almost. His cruel, her ice. I never thought they were a couple in the lovey sense - so I reserve judgment how Daniel came to be. Someone else posted perhaps the island wanted it - don't know.

I just do not believe it was a love match - and their altercation last evening wasn't because he had an off island woman. It was deeper.

JMO

@Suzie, yes, I yell at the tv set, especially when it involves the safety of children or animals.

Jenn3 said last night when Widmore confessed to being "Baby Daddy" she yelled at the tv set, "Get the f- out!" So at least there were two of us surprised by that scene. Evidently our host has some connection with the writing staff and knew it all along.

@ flashest monk | April 30, 2009 01:18 PM

Hahahahaha!

I want to add... the Red Sox don't win the world series.

@ fanolost | April 30, 2009 01:19 PM

Sometimes people who are at each others throats end up in the sack, not because they like each other but because they need a place for all the tension to go. They may have never been in a relationship at all and just had one night of passion... as the lost world turns...

next season predicitons:
they will spend most of the season trying to detonate the hydrogen bomb. And the series finale will be a scene where someone will have the opportunity to detonate the bomb and while they are thinking about it they flash to a scene on flight 815 and then there is a blackout and the series is over. (Like sopranos) and then we will never know........

oh CAM.....i was with you up until you wanted to take away the world series..... lol sorry, not happening in this time loop!!

however, i do agree with your theory on "hate lust" totally right on.

oh CAM.....i was with you up until you wanted to take away the world series..... lol sorry, not happening in this time loop!!

however, i do agree with your theory on "hate lust" totally right on.

or maybe the series finale will be a scene that 815 doesn't crash and everyone goes on their merry way but find out that another plane is missing and the cycle starts all over again but with different people...........

It seems that all the posters who "hated" this show I don't recognize their names at all. therefore they are easily ignored :)

Flashest monk you are on fire today your posts are hilarious

Well, one thing I hope is that next season, everyone is in the same time and place. No different times, islands, dimensions, etc.

BTW, Daniel wanted Dharma to evacuate so he could set off the bomb. In the *real* timeline, those folks all die anyway in the Purge. But, what about the Others/Hostiles. Wouldn't they die if a nuke were set off? Wouldn't Daniel himself be killed, so Old Daniel wouldn't exist, yadda yadda.

we know that charlotte and miles are evacuated with their mothers...i think it will be interesting to see whether

-energy is released at the hatch site, and then people are evacuated
-Miles's father takes Daniel's warning seriously and evacuates everyone BEFORE anything happens
-Jack and Kate somehow manage to find the bomb and detonate it, possibly causing the need for evacuation...
there are so many possibilities i don't even know what to think anymore.

@Diana & mlm- The Wired Magazine issue that Widmore moved off of Faraday's couch was the August 2003 "super power" issue, which dealt with X-ray vision, invisibility and time travel.

I don't THINK this constitutes a spoiler. Its listed on IMDB. If you think that's a spoiler, stop here.

Jeremy Davies is listed, without the parenthetical *credit only* for the rest of this season. I don't know if that means anything or not.

D- ?????????????????

Are you insane ? Faraday DIES !!!!! His mother sent him to the island to be killed by her !!!

That is shocking !!! Of course, go ahead and tell us that you saw it coming .... after you offer proof that you actually type those comments as you watch the show and not afterwards.

OK, so about Eloise's memory & time travel ... I thought that memories from the past weren't formed until something happened on the island, i.e. Faraday knocks on Desmond's door telling him to talk to Faraday's mother, Desmond wakes up present day with this "new" memory.

Eloise knew that she had to send Faraday back to the island and encouraged him to do so. Eloise's knowledge didn't come in a dream or sudden flash - she knew way before that. In other words, she knew Faraday would have to go back to the island & die (or get hurt or whatever happened) before Faraday actually went to the island & died (or whatever it was that happened). Why??? Am I missing something?

In regards to Eloise sending Daniel to the island to die: I don't think she knew, yet. She didn't have the memory of shooting Daniel until it happened in Daniel's present. I posted the idea earlier that their memories have been changed and now she knows what she did, but I didn't get a bite. Sorta like when Daniel told Desmond to find his mother, and Desmond woke up in his present with that memory all of a sudden. I think Eloise and Widmore found out the night at the hospital that she shot Daniel. I could be wrong, of course.

Last nights episode sucked! I totally agree with Daniel on this one. I was so dissapointed.

Expose 2. they brought back Faraday just to kill him all in one episode. what a waste of a potentially good character. All thats left now is: Kate and Jack are exiled and juliet and sawyer are getting tortured, hurley/miles/jin are whatever/who cares.

i don't know what to say about this episode. i didn't hate, but i think we were all expecting it to be an awesome episode and it wasn't. ABC added to those high expectations.

i liked seeing faraday's backstory and i think it was a nice simple explanation as to why he returned to normal once he was on the island.

i don't like what he was saying about variables. it just doesn't make sense - "people" is just too great a variable. if the rule is Whatever Happened, Happened, then "people" can not be a variable because it would obliterate the rule. a "person" or "persons" could be a variable (Desmond, Eloise) and that is more along the lines of what i was expecting. i thought it would be a cool concept if faraday's constant turned out to be The Variable. but it didn't - at least not last night.

that being said, there is no proof that what faraday was saying was in fact correct. by the end of the show, we are still seeing WHH.

personally, i don't care if it turns out that Mr F and myself are wrong about our WHH theory, but i agree with him that it would suck if true. i just really don't want to see the whole show get undone by something caused in 1977. that would be as lame an ending as if it was all a dream.

however, just as sayid unintentionally created evil ben, the losties could unintentionally cause their own plane crash...that i wouldn't have a problem with.

ok, Daniel gets shot.
But, with him, are a great surgeon and a universal blood donor.

Daniel didn't think Jack & company needed to be there. But Eliose SENT them there. Maybe she is hoping they will save Daniel "this time".

Why do so many people think this was a bad episode, seriously? I agree w/flashest monk & Cam, I think we “prepare” ourselves for what’s to come with theories and spoilers, and then feel disappointed. I know I certainly have.
Any who…I thought there was a lot of heavy foreshadowing: Daniel “making time”, the conversations w/Charlotte “maybe I can change things”, w/Jack & Kate-about destiny & variables.

My own opinion is Daniel did change his “destiny” last night by getting shot. His stating “anyone of us can die”, then Kate saying, “Think he knows what he is doing?” And the comment about needing the gun, “you don’t know my mother”. But he did!
And he knew if he went in there with guns blazing, not waiting for Jack & Kate, that was going to be the outcome. Richard said to Eloise, “he wasn’t going to shoot me”. But Daniel accomplished exactly what he wanted & needed to do.

So even if you want to argue the whole WHH rules stuff,{ and personally I’m getting really tired of hearing that phrase-no disrespect intended Mr. Factual & others for taking up this religion-LOL} cause this was his “present time” and it was suppose to happen this way.

But it definitely opens up a possibility that he has indeed just changed it. Maybe this is why Mrs. Hawking can no longer see the future, because the past has been changed?

One other thing that may support this, did anyone else notice when Daniel was looking in his journal a page had been torn out? Could this mean he deliberately missed a step along the path? He followed that journal the entire episode, knew Dr. Chang was “right on time”, etc.
Guess we will find out soon enough!

I also want to say I agree w/whoever said about Mrs. Hawking being a good actress. Her facial expressions were right on!

remember, Caesar had a page from Faradays book. When he was in that office looking through papers. It was like a map of the island with hieroglyphics on it.

Wonder who tore it out of Daniel's book?

I forgot that! Thanks-suzie! Maybe it does hold a clue? who knows w/this show-LOL!
Was busy @ work all day {we're merging w/another company} so I'll probably be off tommorrow too.

So if anyone responds to my post, I'll be reading, but won't be able to reply:(

yea, be good at work Tootsie. New big shots around require new good first impressions.

You won't miss much around here!

Haven't read thru all the posts yet but I just need to throw this out there quick. If they are going to change the course of the future and prevent the plane from crashing, then they won't know each other in the future. I am picturing a Butterfly Effect type ending where Jack and Kate or Kate and Sawyer are walking down the street and pass each other and both turn back and look at the other like they think they know each other but don't...... and let me tell you, if that is how Lost is going to end, I am going to be EXTREMELY dissapointed!

I thought Eloise's icyness toward Whidmore was because she was ad he got someone else pregant (pennys mom) off the island maybe she was jealous

If the writers wipe out all that has happened since the Losties crashed it seems so anticlimactic and takes so much of the suspense away and seems too much like a Bobby Ewing shower scene excuse...also the writer's must not have kids? Sun, Claire, Kate now possibly Penny/Desmond just walk away from their kids?
Also I think Juliet knows much more about things than we've yet been shown - How did she know "Richard has always been here" and she always seems to know how to untangle a situation or how to resolve it...in the Pow Wow with Phil in the closet it seemed to me that she was guiding the conversation and in charge of it and then she set the plan in motion as to who was separating with who and going where...Love Lost even when I hate it!!

I watched the Comic Con video and it was definitely Faraday's voice talking to Chang from behind the camera. I'm pretty sure I heard Miles too, but it was for sure Faraday. He has a very distinguishable voice.

A few thoughts and sorry if this has already been said but I have to get this down before it leaves my head (which was swimming a bit after last night's episode).

First, since Faraday died in his present but his mom's past, does that mean that in her present she instantly has the memory of killing Daniel as a young woman as well as memories of raising him? Kinda weird.

Second, supposing the O6 are able to stop things from happening the way they originally did, what effect would that have exactly? I figure it this way. Supposing they were able to travel back to a time shortly before flight 815 they would still have memories of all that happened right, since it is happening to them all in their present time? They just would be able to live their lives after getting off in Los Angeles like they would have had 815 not crashed.

I'm also wondering about Charlotte. Supposing she leaves the island and it turns out that 815 doesn't crash, she would have no reason to visit the island post crash and thus would not be caught up in the time skipping. But she did die in her present, so would that mean that in late 2004, wherever she is in the world, she would die at that same time since she couldn't live after a point in which she would have died? Or do the rules change because she was time skipping? And would this apply to everyone who has died on the island after the crash of 815? I'm admittedly confused and am hoping someone can clear it up.

Thoughts?

@Tasha I thought this 2 years ago just like you said except instead of changing the course of events it's just a Dream.

Great episode lots of Info.

people have mentioned back to the future...when he woke up in the new present he REMEMBERED everything as it had happened. why would we just assume that the losties would not know each other if 815 does land safely in '04.

the writers have said that all characters names are carefully chosen so when are we going to find out the charlie/charles connection?

also since they have mentioned Stephen King on the show before I think it is interesting that he has a book where the main character is caught in a loop. reliving his life events over and over again and the things he does to try to change it are the things that actually cause the original outcome.

ok last thought...are ellie and charles maybe daniels parents in the way that kate is aarons 'mom' and ben is alex's 'dad'? I just really cant see them getting it on. I may have missed it as I dont re-watch episodes but where did the name Faraday come from?

Perhaps Daniel was meant to die so that he could not go through with detonating the bomb.
Or perhaps he isn't dead. I dunno.

Suzie said:
"ok, Daniel gets shot.
But, with him, are a great surgeon and a universal blood donor."
I don't think the Others have a hospital available to them though, and they can't go back to Dharmaville. So it seems to me that if Daniel survives, it will have to be Richard and the island who save him and not Jack and Kate.

I can't believe that Jack and Kate would know how to detonate an H bomb or if they knew how, that they would. Seems like everyone on the island would die sooner if not later if they did. Just doesn't seem like a good idea to me.

I think that Pierre Chang saw something in the equations that Daniel showed him from the journal. I think that is what persuaded Pierre that Daniel really was from the future, and that he needed to get his family off the island.

I was one of the original posters over on TMZ and used to post here when Daniel moved the entire Diary for real over here. It's been years since I posted, but I always show up and read everyone's comments. Posters have come and gone but I really enjoy everyone's opinions.

My opinion is I think the Island will be revealed as Atlantis. Smoky is either an entity from Old Atlantis or the security system. That's where the statue comes from and that's why the island has magical property. It's magical and highly technical like we all know Atlantis to be. The enormous amount of energy that was exposed by the Dharma initiative was of course what kept Atlantis running. I think the show will end just like previously posted, that all the Losties will end back on the 815, they never crashed and it will be all like this never happened.

I don't know what will happen to the Island. I do not know who the "adam and eve" (the dead man and woman) are-- the Losties originally found them in the cave. That would be interesting to find out. Also I hope they reveal who Jacob is. Is he a manifestation of the Island (Atlantis) or what? That's just some of my theories. I'll step back now and keep on reading!

My original theory WAY back when was this was a virtual reality experiment gone wild. Oh dear how wrong I was! haha

@ Mr Factual. Missing from this scenario is Penelope then slapping Eloise for preventing Desmond from marrying her.

Hawking deserves a little bit of humbling. but i am a catty sort.

Oh, and is it me or the more this show progresses, the less convincing Evangeline Lily's expressions are?

@Tootsie

how does daniel getting shot change his destiny? if anything, it fulfills his destiny because his mother, off island, remembers shooting her son in 1977, confirmed by her conversation with widmore.

i confess that i am on the WHH side of the fence, but i am willing to see other angles. i just don't see how, faraday's dialogue aside, anything in last nights episode contradicted WHH. interested to hear your thoughts.

Love reading all these posts!
I thought it was a great episode, so much better than last weeks "Lost for Dummies" episode.
Best line of the night?
"Your Mother is an Other? - Sawyer to Daniel, and yes, "Sawyer" is definitely back.
Here's a question - has anybody figured out who Charlotte's parents were?
Is it possible Daniel could have been her father in one of his time travel visits to the past? Hmmmm...
And does anybody else have the feeling that little Charlie Hume is kidnapped by the "nurse" who was told to look after him while Penny went in to see Desmond in the recovery room? I'm sure of it!
Here's another good question: if Daniel is the product of British Widmore and British Hawking, brought up by his British mother, and went to British Oxford, then how the heck did he end up with an American accent?
I'd like to see your thoughts on this one!

I agree wholeheartedly with Daniel. This episode was terrible writing, no suspense and frankly was just annoying. I was bored watching it. And is it just me or does anyone else want to give this guy a buzz cut? Too late, he's dead...for the time being.

@ billy-really quick cause I have to get ready for work, and I won't be back on today.
I thought about this after I went to bed and did'nt explain, that the reason "I" think Daniel just changed it, is because he did it before, Possibly over the course of the three years off island.
We have'nt seen what he did over those three years, whether it be the scenarios playing out in his lab, or if he actually time traveled back (which would be hard to explain}
I think he did this all before somehow, but not w/the result he wanted.
So this time he made sure of the result he needed. Hope that helps, I'll try to keep up reading.

Of course all the foreshadowing could also just mean WHH. I just got a wierd vibe that he had somehow done it before. Probably because of the journal, the conversation w/Dr. Chang etc etc...

Why do people think that Eloise could predict the future because she read it in Daniel's journal? all that I remember being in that journal was random charts, equations and little bits of scientific theories.. looking at the pics on lostpedia that seems to be accurate.

@Laura, when Des met Eloise, she 'predicted' the guy getting nailed by the scaffolding - though that could have been orchestrated.

@Tootsie et al - you can discount the 'free will' that played out in this epi - or you can think that Faraday was looney and WHH is still in play. But he's said both, and if looney is what he is - who knows if ANYTHING he says is reliable. Just don't know. Just pointing out there could be a little of everything going on.

@rollerdonna - HA. That's annoyed me for a while - accents not matching up. Course we don't know when he was living in GB - going to Oxford wouldn't get you an accent.

@caroline bingley - HA... Eloise needing humbling... don't they all?

And are you saying Evangeline is botoxing or just that she's not an 'a' list actress?

Eloise Hawking (I said this a long time ago) was Maeve on Ryan's Hope - I loved her on that soap. She's one of those actresses who can, with an expression, give you so much (I think The Others ... she was good, movie, not so much)

@billy, welcome back and good to know you got the same impressions I got from this episode.

In general, Faraday came up with a THEORY for being able to break the rules of WHH. But it is currently only a theory, which is why I a say WHH is still the rules of time travel. Faraday decided to try his theory out, but ended up failing badly, as he could not change his past nor anyone elses.

He still talked to young Charlotte, even though as he said he tried not to. He still got shot by mom exactly as Eloise remembered it happening. And he put enough scare in Dr Chang to set in motion Chang sending his wife and son off the island. In short Faraday fulfilled his destiny and played his role.

I also think a key to unravelling this is in the title, "The Variable", not variables. My opinion, the variable is a single person, not ANY person time travelling. That is why Faraday failed, that is why Jack and Kate will fail, because they are not THE variable in the equation.

I mentioned this yesterday, but I am beginning to believe Jack and Kate actually CAUSE the Incident they are trying to prevent.

First, since Faraday died in his present but his mom's past, does that mean that in her present she instantly has the memory of killing Daniel as a young woman as well as memories of raising him? Kinda weird.

Posted by: Tony C | April 30, 2009 07:23 PM

@Tony C, Here is my take on the above based on the WHH rules that are in play. I dont mean to single you out, but this has come up quite a bit.

Eloise ALWAYS knew that this would happen, ever since she shot this strange man way back in 1977. This was the great sacrifice she made, as she scolded Widmore for talking about sacrifice. She believes in fulfilling ones destiny, her destiny required her to send her son to this island knowing full well that in 1977 she will shoot him.

A way to look at Faraday's present vs Eloise's past is to understand this already happened. Eloise KNEW what would happen because she experienced it back in 1977. The same way Widmore remembered Locke walking into their camp in 1954. For Locke it had been 4 days, for Widmore it had been 50 years. Basically these things happened well before Faraday or Locke even thought about landing on this island. Think about that for a minute, Locke visited Widmore in 1954, 50 years before he boarded flight 815. Heck, Locke visited Widmore before he was even BORN! And due to this meeting back in 1954, Widmore had Abaddon get Locke on Flight 815 to set these events in motion.

Your post used the Desmond/Faraday conversation to create a memory and applied it to the Faraday/Eloise case. In my opinion, this is incorrect as we need to think of Desmond in a category all his own. Remember what Faraday told Desmond, you are uniquely special. So far Des is the ONLY case where a conversation in the past turned into a present day memory.

Just because it was "present" time for Faraday doesn't mean the outcome was unknown. As this was happening in the past for Richard, Eloise and the Others. It gives the appearance of free will, when in actuallity there was no free will for Faraday. Eloise could have told someone in vivid detail exactly what would transpire that day in 1977 if someone had asked before this show.

Isn't time travel so much fun?? lol!!

Mr F- I concur with your theory if we consider it logically. In previous attempts to change the future (Sayid shooting little Ben, Jack refusing to operate on little Ben) the result was they did not change the future they enabled the future. In other words WHH. Why would we assume that Jack and Kate will all of a sudden be able to change the past. I guess we will see how it plays out, for now, I'm skeptical (and I also support your hunch that it may be up to Des to to the one thing that changes the Past. I'm hanging on to the thought that he is "special" (in Faradays words) even if I disbelieve Faraday that all humans are variables. There is one Variable, and that is Des- IMO.)

@ Melissa- lostjunkie | April 30, 2009 08:33 PM

I think we all have theories that we look back at and ask ourselves what in the world we were thinking! haha!

Someone posted (I looked, couldn't find it) that they thought maybe Daniel is Charlotte's dad, this is highly unlikely since Charlotte was already born when the time traveling losties finally landed in 1974.

Whew! All this time travel debating and no huge fights or back-biting? Makes me happy on a friday morning. Happy May Day!

@flashest, thank you for the support. I am very interested to see how this plays out.

@CAM, yes we do, I could name 10-15 of them with no problem. I am happy if I can be right 50% of the time. Great suspense and mystery in this show.

@ CAM- In “This Place is Death”, Charlotte is skipping thru time and saying the following stuff to Daniel, Miles, Juliet, Hugo and Sawyer:

“Don't let them bring her back"
"This place is death”
"Why can't Daddy come with us?"
"You know what my mother would say about me marrying an American"
"I know more about ancient Carthage than Hannibal himself."
She even speaks in Korean at one point.

Near the end, Charlotte also confides in Dan that she remembers a "crazy" man from her childhood who scared her. This man had told her that she must never come back to the Island or she would die. She tells Dan that she now realizes that he is that man.

Her last words were, “I’m not allowed to eat chocolate before dinner.” (the phrase she repeated on the swing, which must have pierced like an arrow thru Daniel's heart.)

Two things, in the conversation that Faraday has with Charlotte, he tells her she and Mommy must leave the island. He doesn’t say anything about not coming back (or she would die.) Is this a coincidence, did the writers blow it here. Will he come back and tell her this. Did she imagine all that because he was so "scarey" (and traumatized from leaving the island in a panic?)

Secondly, I think the phrase, “Why can’t Daddy come with us?” is very significant as we get closer to the Incident and the exodus of women and children (the eventual creation of a group of "Shadow People") from the island.

Here is a snippet from the transcript, that is weird that he didn't tell her not to come back. Maybe he was trying to avoid doing exactly what she said happened to prevent her from coming back.

CHARLOTTE: I'm not allowed to have chocolate before dinner.

FARADAY: [Sighs] It's okay, sweetheart. I won't tell.

CHARLOTTE: My name's Charlotte. What's yours?

FARADAY: I'm Daniel. I'm new here. Listen. Do you know Dr. Chang?

CHARLOTTE: Uh-huh.

FARADAY: Yeah? Hopefully really soon, Dr. Chang is gonna ask a bunch of people to get on the submarine and leave the Island. [Voice breaks] When he does, you and your mommy... you're gonna have to leave. In case what I do doesn't work, you cannot be here. You have to leave. [Cries] I tried to avoid telling you this. I didn't think I could change things. But maybe I can.

So maybe whe Faraday realizes he can't change things, and he has another conversation with Charlotte, as she is leaving, and tells her not to come back?

I can't believe this is a slip up by the writers. They know we are watching everything. We even know when blemishes disappear on minor charactors faces. LOL :)

When the scene where penny enters desmond´s room in the hospital, after the nurses tell her that he is in recovery, it hits me hard the notion that desmond and penny will go together to the island, and that are they are whom will be adan and eve.
Maybe is an ambiguous misdirection from the writers, but, I remember, back in “the constant”, that two decorative stones were in penny and desmond´s apartment, and they looked a lot like those founded along with the remains, in the caves, back in the first season.
Just a tought, anyway…

@fanolost
no, i guess the more personal and emotional the scene, the less convincing the performance.

The only one whose expressions are hindered by a botox addiction is Elizabeth Mitchel. IF her face moved, I would be able to since an inkling of her love/jealousy/fear/happiness, etc.

You are right Fionnula Flanagan carries her scenes!

After watching a few episodes of "Big Love", I realized (despite my disinterest in the subject) that acting can carry even the most banal of t.v. writing or crazy scenarios.

Just an thought about creating new memories from the past. When Desmond visted Faraday at Oxford in 1996; later in that episode Faraday looked through his journal and a note appeared about Desmond being his constant if anything went wrong. He read that note like it was new. So maybe changes do affect the present day whatever time that maybe. Hence, Eloise knew that someone claimed to be her son in 1977, but she never actually believed it until 2007 when she suddenly couldn't predict the future since Desmond was shot, etc.??

@ CAM - didn't they cut away from that scene and he was still talking to her?

@ henrygamer - wow I never noticed and stones. my personal thought is still that it's rose and bernard

*any stones in the apartment

@CAM and MLM:

They did cut away from that scene when he was still talking to her. They panned out and he was still crouched before her at the swings, and she was looking at him and nodding her head. That must be when he told her "This place is death"

Going cross eyed trying to read through all the comments! Ok all I want to add is this:
To those who are upset with how "cheap and easy" the show seems to be now I have this thought.
I think it isn't so much that the writing has changed, but that we are now smarter veiwers. It's like when you read a lot of books by the same author, you get used to their style, their sense of humor, how they solve conflicts, etc. Now that you are familiar with them you can pretty reliably predict what is going to happen with the story. This is why Widmore being Faraday's dad isn't a big surprise to many of us. We've learned how the show's writers set things up, what kind of forshadowing they use, how they answer the questions they pose, and so now we can follow the clues that much faster and come to the desired conclustions that much easier.
Make sense?

@ flashest monk | May 1, 2009 07:15 AM

This would be assuming that Daniel isn't dead or is healed via the island/ben style. IMHO I think that Daniel is really dead. Like in the dead is dead sense. Dead as a doornail dead.

BUT, It is true that we didn't see the end of the conversation between them, I just think that it is weird they didn't show that really important part of that conversation.

fanolost: helen gallager played maeve ryan , not fionula flannagan....

@anon - you're right, wrong character name, same soap though!

Fionnula Flanagan as Fionna McGrail

Was she not the love interest of the dad? Maeve, of course, had the page-boy salt/pepper hair...

For the people who are looking for transcripts to see what was really said - next week try watching the show with closed captioning - works everytime and you don't have to go "what did he say" good luck geniuses

Daniel,

I usually agree with you on the episode ratings, even the ones that others seem to love and you don't. But this time... I have to respectfully disagree. I don't think that particular moments were orchestrated to create (fake)suspense. I think we have to look at the bigger picture. We have to consider why Daniel has introduced the idea of the variable (What was he doing in Ann Arbor?). I think the next few episodes might be difficult to watch if you are resistant to the fact that there is a certain amount of set-up necessary or to re-visiting moments we've seen before. Things have been set in motion and starting to unfold. Keep your mind open and don't assume anything!

BTW, anyone else see that the season finale is being called "The Incident"?!

did anyone else read the article daniel posted up in the blog? if it's not misdirection by the writers, that's sad :o(

@al

1) It is not a hearing issue, it is a quoting issue. I hear just fine, I simply don't recall it verbatim the next morning while at work. And LOST is all about the details.

2) As taken from Lostpedia..."Because closed-captioning is usually written separately, its text may have errors and does not necessarily reflect the true Canonical transcript."

Thanks anyways, awesome idea...genius

@mlm, nice catch... now about that land in Florida...:)

POTENTIAL SPOILER

That article that Daniel confirms my own suspicions but still makes me sad. I really liked the character and Jeremy Davies portrayed him perfectly.

another thought about adan and eva: that they were/will be locke and helen, reunited by some kind of event like the one bring back locke from the death.
I remember that in season one, when locke is playing a table game with walt, the former shows to the boy, a couple of stones, also alike to those found with the skeletons.

While I was on the *he's dead* bandwagon -- yet another person surviving a close-range shooting would be too much -- I'm so sad to read that article. I loved the Faraday character, and thought that Davies was amazing in the role. When he said something like *if I go, will you be proud of me* you could just see him as a damaged little boy who craved the approval of his cold, overbearing mother.

@henrygamer
i remember those stones on the chess (checkers?) board...good catch! I like both of your adam/eve theories...

@henrygamer and azwildcat - I believe those were backgammon pieces - he was talking black/white to Walt - which was interesting on several levels...

@AZWildcat, backgammon, one of the oldest games known to man.

@henrygamer, I like your thoughs on Adam & Eve being Des & Penny. But I am having trouble with little Charlie Hume in that equation.

@flashest monk 6:48 am

@flashest monk 6:48 am

Daniel may have told little Charlotte not to come back to the island when he was talking to her. We did not hear everything. The scene was focused on Jack and Kate and you could see Daniel still talking to Charlotte in the background. Perhaps it happens off camera. I thought the same thing so I went back and watched it again.

R.I.P. Faraday

R.I.P. Faraday

maybe charlie hume will turn out to be another charlie we already know, with other last name...

another important issue is about lineage.
christian shepard, appearing in/out the island, speaking in the behalf of jacob; sometimes with claire, his daughter alongside him, make thinks...
is jacob a shepard ancestor?

that could be the relevance of jack in the great scheme of things: he is a descendent of an entity, apparently simbiotic with the island. maybe an inheritor; a leader, but in a greater vision that a just leader of the others, like locke.

@henry, I was afraid you were gonna go the Charlie Pace route...lol! Not one I buy into myself, but I also haven't shut the door on it.

Well Christian has appeared to Sun, Lapidus, and Locke as well. So I am not sure about being related to Jacob, maybe his dead body was simply convenient to use. Who knows, maybe, maybe not.

Even though Dan is killed in this episode, he IS already alive as a child, right?????

So he will continue on with his life -- yes or no?

@ henrygamer | May 1, 2009 11:20 AM

ssarah badara (who hasn't posted here in a while) has a whole theory on the Shepherd lineage and Jacob is definitely a part of it.

maybe that is the important of showing us in an episode of this season the grandaddy of jack, hal.
he is in an asylum, with symptoms that I associate with dementia (Im a shrink :-D), or a residual schizophrenia.
but what if it is, that his concience its splitted? between his body, and a very peculiar island...

@ Anonymous | May 1, 2009 11:28 AM

That was me, not sure what happened.

@ henrygamer | May 1, 2009 11:30 AM

Actually, his granddad's name is Ray and he is not in an asylum, he is in a retirement home. He seemed very lucid to me and not like he had any sort of dementia.

Sorry, I'm back. Friday is my day for possible liturgical duty. I'm up in the rotation for Vespers.

@mlm- thanks for pointing out the article. Sad, and I don't think its misdirection. Loved that character.

@LiV- Thanks for re-watching tha scene and pointing out the conversation in the background. That is the explanation, for sure. Thx.

@Everybody, my post from this morning had two parts. The second part, I thought, was the most important. about Charlotte saying “Why can’t Daddy come with us?”

Several of you have mentioned foreshadowing. This is telling us that some of the women and Children (not all maybe, as we know that Ben stayed. Maybe this is were we learn about Annie's fate as well?!?!?)

I believe this is the back story to Bram and Iliana- the Shadow people. My theory is that see them as kids, being moved off the island with their mothers. Quickly separated as children they merge back into society in the States. They wouldn't know each other. Maybe the adults are told to LIE ABOUT THE ISLAND (LIKE THE O6.) They would need the phrase "what lies in the shadow, blah, blah, blah, to identify each other.

@ flashest monk | May 1, 2009 11:36 AM

I really like that thought about the "Shadow of the statue" people. They really seem to me like Dharma 2.0 coming back to reclaim the island. Great catch with the daddy line and charlotte. When we saw the purge a couple seasons ago, did we see any women or children?

@CAM- I also think there is a possibility that Miles will be the one that is influential in convincing his father to initiate the evacuation. Maybe thru his Mom, who he knows alot better than his Dad and may be easier to convince that he is from the future. If he did, it would really give Miles' character unbelievable depth. In his back story, though we felt sorry for him, he seemed to be all about the money. This would be "redemption" sort of, and we know LOST is all about resolving Daddy issues and redemption.

in "cabin fever", christian says that hes not jacob, but that he can speak in his behalf
he has showed himself to the people he has to, for some reason, not just jack. But I think that was different, not associated with his bloodline

That is unless you are in the Kate/Locke/Ben school of Daddy issue resolution, then you blowup/have Sawyer strangle/release nerve gas on your Daddy. That's the extreme school.

@flashest, I like the idea of the kids leaving the island, some with moms, and you tied in Bram and Illana too. Nice one.

I wonder if Faraday telling Chang about the future Incident got Changs mind spinning a little. Maybe enough to quietly evacuate a few of the women and children. But I like your take on maybe Miles pushing Chang over the top, that works too.

Another Causal Loop in that case, future Miles saved baby Miles from dying, so LOST like. :)

that's what I do when I have daddy issues, I destroy things :) haha

@Mamafae -8:21am who said: "I think it isn't so much that the writing has changed, but that we are now smarter veiwers. It's like when you read a lot of books by the same author, you get used to their style, their sense of humor, how they solve conflicts, etc. Now that you are familiar with them you can pretty reliably predict what is going to happen with the story. This is why Widmore being Faraday's dad isn't a big surprise to many of us."

I agree to a point. For instance, I watch 24 which is very formulaic, and you expect the mole, the torture scene, the double twist, etc.

LOST is not that way. I think the death of a major character like Faraday, is huge. I do agree we are smarter viewers, but I believe we take everything into consideration, so when the freighter captain said that BEN buried the fake 815, who do we believe, BEN or the Freighter captain. Those were our only two sources for that info (other than TOM telling Michael it was Widmore, which basically came thru BEN.)

I need to let this go, but my problem with Daniel's rating is that I think all of us in this Blog, continue to pay attention to the details. We believe the devil is in the details. Daniel, our host, has lost interest in LOST. He skims thru his reviews and then poo-poos the reveals that (in my mind) were attempts to tie up all the loose ends that we beg for every day on his BLOG. This is the last time I write about this, its seems like I hate Daniel and I don't. I am extremely appreciative of his BLOG. I just think he needs to reflect on the subjectivity of his review and why it was so different from his friends who were IMing him. He's LOST that LOVING FEELing toward LOST.

@ flashest monk | May 1, 2009 12:18 PM

How do you manage to put into words what I cannot? I agree, there were major reveals this week that we have been speculating on for a while, but the show didn't officially confirm a lot until this epi. Although I understand that some relationships with LOST go through an eb and flow. Mine has not always been the strongest, but with the increasing plot lines and the closer we get to the end, my relationship is as strong as ever. LOL, I am so cheesy sometimes. At least I can laugh at myself.

@ Mr. Factal

If people from the future interact with those from the past and those from the past remember (i.e. Widmore and Locke) then why wouldn't Desmond remember Faraday as the person who spoke with him at the hatch? Maybe he did and I missed it or confused it out of my brain. :-)

@ flashest monk and CAM

I also used to really enjoy Daniel's fresh running diary of each episode. I have found myself recently not as excited to read them. That being said, I love coming here every week because of everyone that contributes. This blog is bigger than Daniel because it provides a great forum for us to exchange ideas and enrich our enjoyment of such a tremendous TV show. If Daniel simply gave a grade and a paragraph I would still come here and read the comments and post because of everyone who contributes weekly. I think regardless of what we think of Daniel's diary lately we can all agree that each persons contribution makes coming here every Thursday worthwhile.

@CAM- I was actually so angry with Daniel's grade that I had to result to posting nothing but humor yesterday in an attempt to work thru it. I can communicate it better today, so I guess my self-ministered humor therapy worked. Yesterday I was angry. Kind of silly really, afterall, its just a tv show.

@Tony C- I totally agree, well put. I do think his review adds some fuel (even if its sometimes negative energy.) Overall, he is really a great guy and I commend him for not taking the negativity as personal. We are fans afterall. I'm sure the producers of LOST would say they are lucky to have us.

@ flashest monk | May 1, 2009 12:58 PM

Yeah, I could tell your tone yesterday wasn't quite normal for you, I am glad you worked through it! Onword and forward.

I am out for the day! Enjoy the weekend everyone.

So, without reading allll the comments, just some, what if the "accident" wasn't caused by Dr. Chang and the people building the Swan, but was instead caused by dumbass Jack trying to change everything and "fix" the future by detonating the H-Bomb? By doing what Farraday said would fix things, (maybe screwing it up and doing it wrong?) Jack actually causes the problem that requires them to push the button for the next 30 years. Just a thought.

@Jon- there are a whole bunch of us with you on that, brutha! Which would put the human Variable theory back to being just that- a theory. We shall see what we shall see. Peace!

I liked this one, we figured out how this is all going to end a couple of weeks ago before they said it on the show. If it's going out like I think it is, how does the show even happen???

*******SPOILERS************

Ok, so now that Faraday is dead, how does any of this ever happen??? If she shot him then, wait...this is making my brain hurt. I'll come back later.

Ok, Im back. So Faraday had said "This is our present. Any of us can die at any time." Ok...I never really understood how time travel really should work...my brain doesn't work that way, I have more artistic then scientific brain functions but if this is their present, and they're in the past, and they change everything so the plane crash NEVER happened, none of this ever happened. So the plane never crashes, it lands safely in L.A., Boone, et.al. are alive(again?), soooooooo...will they remember anything? Are their memories erased with everything else? Will they remember anything, or did it just never happen??? Idk. I'm confused.

i didn't hate it but was VERY bored by it, even watched it on 2 different days half thurs and half fri, says alot when i cant wait for lost to be on keep up the good, honest work daniel

flashest monk - glad you were able to work it out :) I too was very upset with Daniel's rating. I think the show is evolving. We've been through how many seasons now, setting the stage and laying out all the questions with litle answers. Now the questions are being answered, with few new questions being posed. I think in some ways our viewing has to evolve too. I guess now we watch to see if all the theories we have batted around and argued over these years are true or not. And I bet we could come up with a huge list of questions not yet answered. Shall we make a list?
Adam and Eve are...?
Who is Jacob?
Where is Claire?
The loop/record?
WHH?
Have we seen the last of Waaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaalt?
How does ssarah's Shepherd family theory stand up? :)
Where's Ray?
What happened to Annie?
What happened to Ben with the Hostiles?
What's the eqyptian connection?
What lies in the shadow...
Richard...
What kind of beer does dharma beer taste like?
How did Hurley not lose weight on the island (that's for you flashest :D)
Smoke monster is...
Would Kate really want to change the past/future so the plane doesn't crash? She will face murder charges back home.
If the plane doesn't crash, will we all end up in Santa Rosa?
Did anyone notice that Daniel lost his tie?

I'll stop there and let you guys add to it if you wish.

@ flashest monk. LOL.... seriously I did..

flashest - I watch 24 also - only other tv show I watch. I still watch it but 24 jumped the shark big time this season for me.

@ CelticSun I'm sure thats kinda what happens. The bomb goes off - hence Des wearing the bio hazard suit with his hatch mate (who i want to how he got from training Sayid in torture techniques to the island.. but i digress, and will prob never knnow). The island is too hardcore for a H bomb to destroy it. Or it might be some masterful plan that the Others concoct to make it seem like the bomb goes off to get the DI off once and for all?? Somehow I see Kate pulling that cause I don't think she wants to go back to federal custody.. She's a survivor and does whatever she needs to do for HER to stay ahead.

although "the incident" sure seems to fit the descrption of something as nuts as that bomb going off...

that was me @ 3:07...
@duffy...

GOOD call on the tie.. i dont know why, but little things like that are happening more and more...

Is it just me or did the hostiles camp seem small and mostly made up of men

I also asked earlier why Richard told Dan Eloise wasn't at the camp before she came out gun toting mama any thoughts

worst series finales
The Sopranos fade to black
Dallas Shower scene
Seinfeld (sorry I didn't like it)
St. Elsewhere snowglobe

Any to add?

goldilocks - I questioned the lack of women a few weeks ago, but there are women in their camp. Usually in the background though.

I have another question to add to my list - 2 actually -
1 Why was Horace cutting down the tree and when was that? Locke ran into him and was talking to him but it kept on repeating.
2 Was Amy a hostile?

I think Amy was a Hostile.

Because...

Ok, when Ben went to kill Rousseau Ethan was with him. Um, yeah, Ethan was Amy's baby.... And Ben was on that mission per Richard and Whidmore. SO... that was supposedly young Ben on that mission with young Ethan.
How otherwise was Ethan already on Ben's side?
Must be because Amy was a hostile all along... and that's why they killed her husband/boyfriend. They didn't kill her cause she was one of them, althought maybe they were about to kill her because she fell into the Dharma camp.

Who knows, maybe she was supposed to be a spy but ended up falling in love with a Dharma man and became pregnant.

Just a thought I had.

I wonder if Ethan joined the hostiles because he survived the purge or was kidnapped by them. Or maybe - true to LOST - he had daddy issues with Horace lol

Well I think Amy was a hostile though so he was witht he others during the purge, know what I mean? So it was neither kidnapped nor by luck survived the purge... for all we know I wouldn't be surprised if Amy makes a come-back one of these days, cause she's been hanging with Richard all the while...

But we'll just have to see...! Hopefully this is something that will be answered more so.

I also think as the season comes to an end, as well as the series, they will start revealing more and more of the scenes we've only seen small bits of so far. Which to me is really exciting! :)

Hey I could be hostile to hang with Richard! lol (It's been a bad week!)

@Mr Factual

I am in complete agreement with your assessment of this past episode. I saw 1 thing, that I am questioning, though. You wrote:

So far Des is the ONLY case where a conversation in the past turned into a present day memory.
Many people seem to be saying that Desmond did not have this memory until the exact moment that he recalled it and he recalled it specifically because Daniel planted it back in time. So if the memory had been a tangible object, it would have appeared out of nowhere the minute Desmond remembered its existence. Is that what you are saying?

My feeling is that Desmond always had the memory, but he only recalled it at that particular moment, just like any one of us that has forgotten something and suddenly remembers it. If I suddenly think of my ex-gf from middle school and decide to find her and call her up, it is because I remembered a good memory, not because she went back in time and planted that memory in my head. So just because we witnessed Daniel plant the memory and Desmond recall the memory, it doesn't necessarily mean that those 2 moments are connected in space-time.

What do you think?

Perhaps Ethan has a life threatening injury and brought to the Hostiles for "healing" and stays with them.

So apparently no one else on this blog got the same impression, feeling of déjà vu that I got from the episode.
Maybe it’s just the stress from work, or I sure “saw’ way more into the foreshadowing-etc.
I even re-watched it a 3rd time, and still got the same impression Daniel had somehow done all of it before, and this was a “do-over” to change things. Time will tell!
And at least I know I’m not completely crazy as another blogger/recapper mentioned something similar!
It’s finally going to be a nice day, I’m not @ work, I’m going to forget about Lost {just today}, and catch you all later-Namaste!!

So if Faraday dies in 1977 and there is a ghost Faraday. Then wouldn't ghost Faraday be in 2004 when the plane crashed? And there would be a ghost Faraday and a body Faraday on the island at the same time? And maybe ghost Faraday is who Miles was sent to the island to talk to! Please help me explore this!!

Oops! That was me.

So if Faraday dies in 1977 and there is a ghost Faraday. Then wouldn't ghost Faraday be in 2004 when the plane crashed? And there would be a ghost Faraday and a body Faraday on the island at the same time? And maybe ghost Faraday is who Miles was sent to the island to talk to! Please help me explore this!!

The people who comment on this blog weekly are really full of yourselves.

The producers should be happy to have your comments

HA HA HA HA

@Duffy- That list you made at 2;55PM yesterday (sorry, busy last night)of questions to be answered was pretty conclusive. Personally, I would have liked to know more of Libby's back story. The writer's obviously had one (because she was tied into so many things, like being a patient at Santa Rosa, and giving Des her boat.) I believe, like Walt, she is "dead to the writing staff." (Oh, and for fanolost, where's Vincent? Personally, I'm not worried, Vincent is a survivor. Probably shacking up with a Dharma collie.)

It would be great if we could do a survey of everyone who reads this blog and get the top three questions from your list. Daniel, if you are reading, this would be a way to punch up the BLOG dude.

@duffy at 6:01PM yesterday.

As far as bad series endings, the Sopranos would have been my least favorite as well. NO CAJONES and no imagination. That set the bar for the worst. Limbo under that one sometime. I thought Battlestar was pretty mediocre, but not as bad as those five you mentioned.

Two of the best series finale's for a dramatic series were the Shield and Six Feet Under. If LOST can match those, I would be very happy.

For comedy series finale, Bob Newhart waking up next to Suzanne Plechette (which was the Newhart series before that) was really funny. It would be like having Denny Crane of Boston Legal in their season finale waking up next to Nichelle Nichols (Lt. Uhuru from Star Trek.)

dharma collie lol
I hope we don't add LOST to that worst endings list. I agree - the Bob Newhart was one of the best endings :) I heard the Shield ending was good but have to say I don't watch it. My two hours of "must see" tv are LOST and 24, which as I said has jumped the shark for me. Too busy most of the time to watch much and get my news from foxnews.com when I need to. How many monks watch LOST with you?

Speaking of lists, I guess that's a whole other list for after the show finally ends. What characters/storylines got totally dismissed by the writers, what questions were never answered, and how many times did the writers "walk up the wall".

Duffy
I agree those were the worst finales. The Sopranos just left it up to your imagination. I want answers

I just watched 1048 with John Cusack When he got the nosebleed I thought of Lost and thene the whole time loop thing, Lost sure comes into all these things we watch.

nosy question...flashest monk are you really a monk???

Any thoughts as to why the Hostiles lived on the island since before the 50's but never built houses and only lived in tents until they moved into the Dharma camp?

I wonder if the writers are fan's of the movie "31(?not sure of the #) Monkees" that Brad Pitt and Bruce Willis were in? Great movie about traveling back in time over and over and trying to change the future... The ending was pretty good and there are lots of similarities to time travel this season.

12 Monkeys :)

FYI!!!
For all you Charlie and Keamy lovers out there...both actors are in X-Men Origins: Wolverine.

@Goldilocks - how strange - my son and I just bought 1048! Now I really have to watch it. I just got it b/c I love John Cusack lol

@blue eyes - I knew Charlie was in it b/c they had him on Talk Soup. He was supposed to talk about Wolverine but they kept making jokes about LOST. It was funny. Guy walked up to him and asked him about the whispers.

@duffy,
yeah, I had no idea and was so surprised when I saw their names in the opening credits. They both made good Mutants...

I hate to obnoxiously re-post, but I'm really hoping someone will help me on this one:

When Eloise shot Daniel, he was already alive, presumably living on the island, rigth? So how does this shooting affect the past/present?

I can see how killing the child Ben Linus would throw off the course of history, but effectively, doesn't Daniel get to live out his life until the "age" he is shot by his mother?

This concept of "the present is the present" has been tossed around by just about everyone, but not definitively answered.

Any thoughts?

Duffy
I like John Cusack too that's why I watched it. Let me know what you think it's not time travel like lost but it reminded me of some of the things on lost I was worn out after I watched it you know how some movies do that lol

@geenna

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Faraday

Key Word, Electromagnetism

and even more compelling history

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Faraday_constant

@duffy

I agree with you on Seinfeld. Did not like the series finale. Another one to add to the list of disappointing series finales was X-Files. It was pretty bad.

hellllooooooo. anyone around?

@thomas
thank you for responding...I guess I should have stated my question more clearly, sorry. I meant with a mother named Hawking and a father named Widmore why is he named Faraday?

geenna -

I've wondered that too! Maybe "Faraday" was his given middle name and to separate himself from his mother/father he used it as his last name?

(just like Angelina Jolie - Jolie was her middle name and Voight was her given last name but had it legally changed so she could build her career on her own without her famous last name.)

I don't know, just a thought!

Hi, good post. I have been wondering about this topic,so thanks for sharing. I'll definitely be coming back to your posts.

I still can't come up with anything to go with the "Scale Factor" that Faraday has written in his journal that he was reading on the way down in the elevator to see/eavesdrop on chang. it had to be pretty important - a clue fer sure...

what was this scale factor? I don't remember that- did it say anything else?

@Kateisgreat

Pretend you invented a time machine and traveled back in time 10 years. For you, it would be 1999. Pretend someone shot you and you died in 1999. You would be dead, but the shooting would not effect the younger version of you that was alive in 1999, nor any other version of you that lived prior to the moment you invented the time machine.

This is what happened to Daniel Faraday.

The man who traveled to the island and experienced time travel is dead, but every version of him prior to his traveling back in time is unaffected.

My feeling is that Desmond always had the memory, but he only recalled it at that particular moment, just like any one of us that has forgotten something and suddenly remembers it. If I suddenly think of my ex-gf from middle school and decide to find her and call her up, it is because I remembered a good memory, not because she went back in time and planted that memory in my head. So just because we witnessed Daniel plant the memory and Desmond recall the memory, it doesn't necessarily mean that those 2 moments are connected in space-time.

What do you think?

Posted by: billy | May 2, 2009 05:33 AM

@billy, very good points and I see where you are coming from. I guess I need some time to rethink my stand on this one.

My initial thoughts is that their conversation (Faraday/Des) in 2001 created the memory for Desmond in 2007. That Desmonds mind/thoughts are no longer constricted to a linear timeline. Part of what makes Desmond so uniquely special.

So thanks for putting me back on the fence again...lol! Mark me down for undecided, thanks for the different take on this scene.

Hi, interesting post. I have been thinking about this issue,so thanks for writing. I will certainly be subscribing to your blog.

Does anyone else hope that Lost does not end like Daniel Farrady was saying. That if he stops the "incident", than the plane will land safely and all the passengers will not have gone through all they did on the island. They will not remember anything and will go about their life? I personally would be really disappointed.

Congratulations to Mine That Bird on a spectacular Kentuck Derby win!!!

His mother was an Other? No, but his father was a "Mudder" (Birdstone, 2004 Belmont Stakes winner.)

@what if

If you are saying that if the series finale is that the plane lands in LA safely and all the original passengers than go about their lives as if the past 5 years never happened...then I would be pissed. I hope that is not what the writers have in mind.

As the series final is a whole other year away, I can't even begin to think how they are going to ene everything. I am more interested in what everyone thinks is going to happen on Wednesday for the season finale.
Personally I would like see all the losties reunited in the same time (present). Last week I enjoyed the "pow wow" scene at Sawyer's & Juliet's house because they were all together like back in the day when they were at the beach. So somehow I would like to see a big reuntion with all the losties from '77 and Sun, Lock & Desmond in the present. And if I must then Ben as well..

@blue eyes

I don't think the season finale is THIS Wednesday.

Oh, I wonder why I thought that it was. If not, then that's okay, but my question still remains :)

@blue eyes (aka blue yes) I hear ya. Actually the good news is we have one more epi (on May 6th) before the two hour season finale on May 20th (don't know what on May 13th?)

I would feel cheated if it ende like "what if" dreads. However, having said that, we should all prepare ourselves for some kind of let down. Afterall, its about the journey, not the destination (as long as the destination is LAX in 2004 with nobody being impacted by six seasons of life on the island.)

I'm meant to post NOT LAX in 2004..... :)

@flashest,
I'm really happy that there is another episode before the season finale! I must be having a brain freeze as I've had the dates mixed up. I'm lucky to know what day of the week it is, however I never remember the date..

@blue eyes, that's what we are here for, to keep you grounded. Have a great week! :)

At least the blog has the date incase I forget, now if only the time posted truly reflected the time where I am then it would be perfect!

@ blue eyes
I know what you mean...it is 10:30 am here.

@LiV
Me too.

oops, the anon was me.

All - here's what sites are saying for season finale - and that in the 8 pm slot - there's another sort of recap or something...

two-hour season finale on May 13, 2009

@fanolost- I hear on May 13th, instead of another recap show, they are going to do a "Celebrity" LOST with Mario Lopez, Tina Fey,
Paris Hilton, Joan Rivers, George Lopez and the entire cast of the View playing the roles of the various Losties and Others. (Kidding, but wouldn't that be the very definition of "jumping the shark"- seriously, does the listings say what they are doing with the open date of May 13th?)

"Lost: A Journey In Time" is a recap episode that will air on May 13, 2009, followed by the two-hour season finale.

@cam. Thanks.

@flashest monk - not sure what you mean by 'open date.'

The 2-hr. finale is May 13th. At 8 pm on same date is 'another' Lost item (and if it's jumping the shark, shoot me now...)

I don't know anything about May 20th. I sort of booked myself up that Wednesday assuming I was free.... ;)

Daniel,
if you are out there, could you find out for us for sure when the next episodes are?

Is season finale May 13th or 20th?????

@suzie
I went on abc.com and they have the season finale listed as May 13.

While there I found out that this weeks episode is called Follow the Leader.

@suzie
I went on abc.com and they have the season finale listed for May 13.

While there I found out that this weeks episode is called Follow the Leader.

@Suzie- you must be confusing Daniel for a full service BlogMaster. Sorry, my bad, I got my info from Wikipedia on the episode schedule. Should have went to ABC.com like blue eyes.

Darn, and I was so looking forward to "Celebrity LOST", with guest appearance by Susan Boyle as Eloise Hawking. :)

@LoveKeamy this is for you

http://www.tmz.com/videos?autoplay=true&mediaKey=756ba882-0bb5-45db-a1be-d1ea90422cd4

@ suzie | May 4, 2009 08:50 AM

I am pretty sure I answered this question at 8:16 a.m., fanolost answered it at 8:22 p.m. and you have access to the internet.

Mr Factual @ May 1, 2009 11:53 AM. so you think it could be miles that may change chang's mind? i was thinking that since sawyer and juliette are in trouble for locking up dude in the closet, they'd spill the beans on the whole time travelling deal to horace who would in turn bring chang in on the convo and thats what changed his mind about evacuating the island.

wow CAM, brutal! no need to pick on Suzie, she wasn't the only one asking that question. IMO
Personally I like someone's theory (sorry I forgot who) that Eloise sent Jack and Kate back to help save Daniel :)

yea CAM, I have access to the internet.
Is it a problem for you that I dared to ask Daniel a question?
He SAID in his recap UP THERE that he would be reading all of our posts this week.
I thought maybe he would want to chime in.
IS THAT OK WITH YOU CAM?

suzie - it's not that you asked the question, it's that it was already answered...twice - just a little while before you asked it.

and i don't see why daniel would have a better answer to this question than the others.

it's not like it's a personal theory up for debate.

Hi, I was looking around for some informative posts concerning shredders and I found yours. Hope to get some more valuable knowledge like this one. I run a plastic and glass industry and need shredders for my industry.

@Buttercup. I am open to just about anything right now in regards to Chang changing his mind.

I think Faraday laid the foundation for it when he and Miles were at the Orchid. Chang was close to believing them right there.

It could be Juliet and Sawyer. It would add another layer to what Horace and them heard from Sayid when they tied him to the tree. I just don't know if Horace believes in time travel.

But I guess if I had to pick one, I would go with Miles. I think he finally breaks down and tells Chang he is his son. Mainly because we haven't seen a reason yet for Miles to have went back to 1977.

As you can tell, I am far from sold on my pick.

I don't know whats going on in some of these posts, maybe they are just coming off differently then meant, but there are only 2 episodes left of this season! Lets not fight....

Does anyone have plans for how they will get through the hiatus?

During the summer hiatus, I get sucked into reality shows like So You Think You Can Dance and Big Brother.

@ blue eyes - I wish I only got sucked into reality shows during the hiatus LOL

Long time reader...first time poster -- to anything! Over the years, I've really enjoyed everyone's comments. Sitting back and reading certain posts, it's easy to see why some people get pissed off. CAM, did you really need to pound suzie for asking about the date of the seasonal finale? People continuously pose the same questions as others. Space Monk E...ssarah badara...haven't heard from them in a long time because of the personal punches some people are taking. I miss their contributions. Don't you? The regulars -- CAM, billy, Mr Factual, fanolost, jenn3, et al -- you guys have great insights, theories, comments. Let's keep the crap out of the blogs...enough of that in our world already.

I'm kind of new here so please forgive me if this has already been discussed...
last night I watched the movie "The Lake House" and it dealt with time travel. Has anyone else seen this? The woman (2006) was able to have contact with a man in 2004 and was able to alter events and prevent some things from happening by writing letters to him and putting them in a mail box at the lake house. Sorry, dont want to spoil the movie but do you think this may be kind of what's going on with Lost?

I'm kind of new here so please forgive me if this has already been discussed...
last night I watched the movie "The Lake House" and it dealt with time travel. Has anyone else seen this? The woman (2006) was able to have contact with a man in 2004 and was able to alter events and prevent some things from happening by writing letters to him and putting them in a mail box at the lake house. Sorry, dont want to spoil the movie but do you think this may be kind of what's going on with Lost? The island is kind of like the lake house.

I was not trying to be brutal, but I don't get why when something was just answered twice immediately preceding a post, why you would have to ask again like the answers provided were not enough. Sorry if I offended.

@Anon, I have not seen "The Lake House", but from what you described it sounds similar to what Faraday tried to introduce in the Variable.

While we were given the rules of time travel on LOST with WHH, Faraday came back years later with a thought that it is possible to change an event and prevent flight 815 from crashing. He claimed humans and their free will are variables. But before he could put his theory to a test, he died following the WHH rules.

I think there are quite a few people who believe something can be changed, and quite possibly will be changed. I have my money riding on Desmond, but I have been reading some interesting stuff on Kate of all people being special. Wonder how that would go over with some of the Kater's (Kate haters) out there.

@Everyone,
it is very hard to perceive intent when reading the written word. We are missing social cues and voice inflections etc that we get when face to face..
anyway, I am still curious to know what people think might happen during the season finale!

loved the movie the Lake House!!!

you're right, it seems very similar to this!

@ Mr Factual | May 5, 2009 05:43 AM

Ew, I think I just threw up a little in my mouth. Kate can't be special!!! Say it ain't so. Unless by special you mean that she may have to be the one who sacrifices her life to save the island, then I may be able to live with it :) To be honest, I think my hate of kate comes from jealousy, I mean Jack and Sawyer?? Ugh!

@ blue eyes | May 5, 2009 05:45 AM

season finale - this is a hard one because it seems so up in the air at this point. Do the time traveling losties simply fulfill what already happened in the past, do they succeed in changing the past? I think this week will set us up nicely for the 2 hour season finale.

@Mr.Factual- sorry I forgot to put my name in. The man saw the woman in 2004 and recognized her by what she had described, but she didnt know him in 2004 because she was oblivious that her 2006 self was communicating with him and because for her it had never happenend. I just found it amusing that it seemed so similar to lost. In their situation she actually changed what happened to the man in 2006 and was able to meet up with him in 2006 because of this change.

you should watch it sometime- definite chick flick but it is worth it to see how the time travel thing works and how the events are changed. Gives me hope for a good chain of events on Lost.

@CAM
I think Claire is going to show up in the final 5 seconds with a huge reveal which sets things up for the season premiere.

@ blue eyes

That would be a good twist, but would she show up in 1977 or 2007? Also, do you think that the two groups will reconcile in the same time? Maybe "the incident" creates another "flash" and all those not from the original 1977 go back to their orginal times??