The Lost Diary

Daniel, you're BAAACK! You da man, thanks.

and we have to look at KATE all week? ppffttt

I liked this episode - and although Ben not remembering being shot kind of ruin's Hurley/Miles question...I still think there is more to the 'whatever happened happened' theory. I still think time can be altered somehow...maybe not in life or death ways but in others....

I can't wait till next week anyway - THAT looks good!

Hi Daniel,

Do you even ENJOY writing your Diary anymore? Your writing and humor used to be so much better in Seasons 2 and 3 - noe it just seems like you're doing this because you HAVE to - not because you WANT to.

If you're going to continue to half-ass it every week, do us all a favor and just quit. We don't need it. But if you get back to the Daniel of old, then we'd be happy.

Sarah

Agree with the episode's grade. Loved the Miles and Hurley question and that they are as just as confused as us!

When Ben woke up with John staring him down, was he remembering all that had happened or did they just do a good tie in?

Jack coming out of the shower was awesome! I thought for sure Juliet was going to jump all over him!! Glad your back brother!

I'm usually not a Kate fan at all, but when she said her goodbyes to Aaron I was a little choked up.

Daniel, agreed, Kim Dickens wonderful as Cassidy. One of the many Deadwood alumni out there doing outstanding work (in LOST, we have LSD boy (William Sanderson), Picketts wife (Paula Malcomson) who was shot by Sun and Cassidy, Damages has sheriff Bullock (Timothy Oliphant) , 24 has used Boothe Powers as a VP and Prez) it was a great series and a great cast.

Daniel, I wonder if the time theories aren't wrong. The fact that Miles thinks one way then Hurley throws a wrench in it - sounds like Faraday needs to do some more tinkering...

Did you not think Kate looked a ton like Amy in the opening scene - half face with lace drapery?

I felt like this episode was all over the place. But I loved it. I watched it again this morning just to take it all in. If Jack would have operated, would Ben be 'normal'?

@ fake sarah badara, I don't get the hate for Daniel. Wouldn't it just be easier for you to quit coming to this site?

Daniel, I agree on an A-. We got a few details on a lot of topics.

But if Ben isn't supposed to remember any of it, why does he have that connection to Juliet when he is Big Ben? And does he remember Annie, or do we as viewers only know her from the flashback?

does anyone remember back in season 2 when the others recruited Juliet that Ben (or someone talking to Ben) says that Juliet "isn't her" or about her looking just like her?

Wow!!! You gave it an A-?!?!?! So proud that you are getting your sh#t together like you said last week! I always knew you never lost your love, it was just going through a rough patch!

I didn't initially like the episode, but then I watched it again and I started to really love the character development in it. It was very reminiscent of seasons one and two which I loved.

If I had to pick one of the two: I would have to pick Juliet.

YES!! The Losties can change their present and fulfill their destiny in the past.

Okay, I will stick my neck out because someone has to defend her. That last post wasn't ssarah, obviously. Poor impersonation for sure.

I hate Kate a little less then I did yesterday.

I agree with CAM,

At first I wasnt sold on the episode being fantastic, but it really does finally show some character development similar to the first few seasons.

And I'm glad its back to doing character-centric episodes!

Am I the only one thinking Penny and Daniel are siblings??? With Ellie and Chuck being on the island in the 70's together... I'm just saying...

LOVE that Sawyer and Jack are both done with Kate! It's rocking my socks.

Miles explaining time travel to Hurley... as the Guinness guys would say BRILLIANT!

@CAM – Two (maybe three) acts of redemption in this episode. Kate made a very strong leap, giving up Aaron to his grandmother, AND going back to the island to find Aaron’s Mom (Claire). I like that Kate. I hated the sniffling, brooding, over-protective Mom Kate, but I love the unselfish, woman of action, go back and rescue Aaron’s real Mom Kate. Redemption in my eyes (sorry fanolost, I have gone to the dark side, I like Kate again.) The other act of redemption- LaFleur helping Kate. His motive was to do it for Juliet. It would have been a little more noble if he were doing it to save the life of an innocent 12 year boy, but doing it to preserve his relationship with the woman he loves gets him redemptive grace in my book. He is trying real hard to be a good suburban husband. I know some of the women bloggers love the bad boys like the old Sawyer, but the new LaFleur gets points from me. Also will throw some redemptive grace points to Roger (Uncle Rico) Linus for showing he really cares for his poor son. Wasn’t quite the evil abusive parent that he was painted in previous episodes once you heard his story from his perspective?

i think kate somewhat redeemed herself in this episode, she FINALLY realized she was being selfish about aaron. i thought ben's dad was really creepy the way he was looking at her, like he totally wanted to bang her and it grossed me out.

i LOVE that sawyer is sticking with juliet, telling kate he's saving ben for her (juliet). ah, so romantic. i wish my husband would carry a dying future psychopath through the jungle for me!

i love that the writers addressed all our questions and concerns about the time travel theory. i was starting to worry that they might just sweep certain things under the rug, but it's good to know they at least acknowledge these questions exist.

overall, i loved this episode, which i think mainly is because i had such low expectations with kate being the subject.

Did anyone else notice that as Richard was carrying Little Ben away one of his gun-toters said something about 'Charles won't be happy'...I'm assuming he's talking about Whidmore. I thought that was interesting.

Kate has been rejected by Jack and Sawyer - saw a little connection with Roger last night, you know where I am going with this?

Daniel- On your debate of Kate versus Juliet, see my last post. If your bad boy Sawyer, Kate's your girl. If you are suburban respectable man with a job LeFleur, Juliet is your best bet at redemption.

I actually prefer this Sawyer to the old one.

what did juliet say the doctor was doing at the Looking Glass? I missed it.

@CAM and fanolost Back to last week's discussion on Good and Evil. The only person that could be construed as “Evil” in this episode would be Jack, or at least Jack’s refusal to operate on a dying innocent 12 year old boy might be identified by some people as an “evil” act. Jack took an oath as a doctor and his way of getting around it was to talk about his “purpose” and what the island wanted (sounded more like Locke than Jack.) I don’t think there are any evil people in LOST, certainly a lot of actions done in the name of misguided self interest, or weakness or just plain stupidity. In Jack’s case, did the end really justify the means, in other words, did letting little Ben bleed to death (means) justify ridding the world of Ben Linus (end). In my mind, there are two Dr Frankensteins in LOST, two people who have created Ben Linus, the MONSTER. Jack Shepherd and Sayid Jarred can now share responsibility for creating the monster they sought to destroy. Sayid by shooting him and Jack by refusing to operate on him, Jack drove him to Richard Alpert who, in saving him, removed his innocence (as a by-product.)

@LisaB, I don't think I remember her saying WHAT he was doing, just that he was there for a while(or something like that).

sayid is a marked man, he will be dead by the end of the season.
he cannot survive killing babyben; either the island will kill him or he'll find a way to do it himself. he has so far lost the (2?) loves of his life to the island - was bens killing tool which he know suspects might not have been the best idea - and will be shunned from the others(pals) and the OTHERS.
HE IS TOAST

Thanks Gina!!

@ flashest monk | April 2, 2009 08:01 AM

Yes! Redemption on behalf of the characters. I agree with you. Although I hate Kate, I had a little sympathy for her last night but the fact remains: she annoys the crap out of me.

I loved the Hurley-Miles debate over time travel. It cracked me up. Hurley is hilarious. Sawyer is perfect. Let's not change a thing about him...which probably means his happiness is going to get blown to bits.

It was so creepy watching Locke watch Ben at the end of the ep. That little smirk he wears is so just creepy. I thought for a minute he was going to kill Ben.

So did you guys hear the Others say they needed to check with Eli and Charles before taking little Ben? I wonder if this is where the war really starts.

I love any scene with Hurley, Just Love Him. Love that Jack isn't being mister nice guy, love it. Kate still not a big fan of. I kinda wish they would get away from the Dharma people already, sick of them, I prefer the others! I like the scenes in the jungle. Love Lost Always!

First of all, I am getting really tired of reading negative posts from other people regarding Daniel. If you don't like the site, then here's an idea.....don't go to it!!! Like Daniel said earlier this week, he doesn't get paid to do the blog, it is just for fun, so if you don't like it, read another blog.

Second, I think one important piece of info from this episode, is that Jack helped create the way Ben ended up. When he refused to do the surgery, he put into motion that the "Others" would have to be involved, thus the killing of the Dharma people and all innocence gone.

I am very perplexed with the whole past, present, future idea. I am having a hard time wrapping my brain around it, and I hope they explain it more before the season ends. I really liked this episode, and as Daniel said, it provided multiple TIVO moments, and provided us with some of the answers we needed.

Thankyou Daniel for the great post. You are greatly appreciated.

@fanolost, again, speaking about LOST being beyond good and evil. Sayid and Jack do two very bad acts (end justifies the means thinking) and the result is little Ben becomes Ben. Kate, Juliet and LeFleur do there well-intentioned "good" acts to save little Ben and end result is Ben. I'm still not buying into the fact the Ben is evil, by the way. He is no different than any of the other characters, he is doing what he thinks is the right thing to do. Its judgement day, next week, we will see what the island thinks.

@ flashest monk | April 2, 2009 08:05 AM

Hmmm... Good v. Evil in this episode. I am starting to think that by Richard doing something good for Ben (healing him) is results in something bad (changing him forever). Like I said last week, no one is purely evil or purely good. We have a lot of ying and yang going on here.

Great comments Daniel. I thought this episode was fantastic.

I love new Jack and that he wouldn't help little Ben, and Kate is so annoying with her desperation to save little Ben. I still hate Juliet, but I like that Sawyer is sticking it to Kate a bit. He still loves her though.

I want to see what happened to Sun.

Maybe Horace is the Charlotte's dad?! Same mop of red hair....

I HATED this episode, and disagree with Daniel....I felt as if this was nothing more than a filler...until the end

I am confused abotu the Other's hierarchy too. So, Ellie and Charles are obviously in positions of power. However, though Richard acknowledges this, he says he doesn't answer to them. I wonder what the status of the 3 of them is with the Others. Are Ellie and Charles in charge of administrative stuff and Richard is just the allknowing - godlike figure? or maybe Richard is like the High Priest for the Others?

so, miles tells hurley to shoot him, but hurley doesn't. i wish he would have! i love miles, but they keep talking about how you can't change stuff. it's like ok, then just start shooting people! they CAN do that if they want, they can kill all the dharma people if they tried, and then the purge wouldn't have happened because there'd be no one there to purge. why don't they just try some crazy experiment like that, just to see what happens.

Oh, and I LOVED the conversations with Miles and Hurley. It was hilarious, like they wrote the script while reading the discussions on here!! I totally tracked what Miles was saying, that is what I have been thinking all along, I just couldn't articulate it quite as well.

Christian kept drilling into Jack that he was a good doctor, he just didn't know when to "let go". Jack is learning to "let go". I was shocked at first that Jack wasn't racing to save little Ben. This is a whole new Jack. Is Jack turnin evil? I'm not too sure about that.

Personally Daniel, I love your reviews. Your humor is spot on. For those who are disappointed, you may wish to keep in mind that the series has changed a bit over time.

LOVED the time talk between Hurley & Miles.

LOVED Jack's line, "you didn't like me back then, Kate."

i like the new jack. it's like, hey dude, you made me a janitor. eat it.

Do you even like LOST anymore?!?! Cuz it doesn't feel that way. If You don't like it any more then stop writing!!

BTW stop hating on Kate!!

Bekah-
I totally posted that say theory about them being brother and sister on a different blog this morning while waiting for Daniel to post. I totally think that that is something that could be possible. Hawking and Widmore are there at about the time you would think that the two of them would be born. People think that they were born on the island as it is, so this just helps that theory right along.

So we learned a couple of more things Daniel didn't mention. I thought Kate went back for Sawyer but it turns out she went back for Claire. BTW good casting on the girl with Aaron in the supermarket to look like Claire. We know Sawyer will likely stay with Juliet (He seemed to make that clear to Kate). And we do know how Ben changed. I wonder what impact his dad caring will have on the situation.
Someone posted this previously so i am restatting: The smoke Monster is the judge of the island. I think next week Ben is going to face the smoke monster. If the smoke monster kills him, he was wrong in all his doings, if the smoke monster lets him live, we will be justified in all his actions.

@ SamIAm | April 2, 2009 08:15 AM

My thoughts on this are that Richard answers to no one but Jacob (who I think he was bringing Ben to). Ellie and Charles seemed to be a little bossy and think they were important but they age, which makes me think they are not native to the island like Richard and Jacob are.

@flashest monk : I agree with your theory, that Ben is no different than the other characters in many ways...but the fact that he "thinks he's doing the right thing" theory thus he's not really evil doesn't float in my boat. Serial killers *think* they're doing the right thing too. KWIM? Some may hear crazy voices in their head that say the victim is the devil for example. Is that serial killer any less evil because they had a good reason for killing? Let's call a spade a spade...Ben's a pretty evil little guy.

I now like shirtless Jack better than shirtless Sawyer! Loved this episode. Made me think about Claire a lot....what happened to her? Is she dead and hanging out with her dad? I am ready for this to be answered.

@flashest monk - ew about kate. I also don't start to 'like' people who finally realize they were incorrect in their actions... it's great - but i don't want to befriend you... thus my feelings remain the same regarding Kate... And I don't buy it. She wants some Sawyer... I think she NEEDs to know if Cassidy is on target.

Jack did save Ben before. He doesn't believe he can change anything - Miles says that. So he doesn't think he's doing anything wrong - except that he's going against his gut, and the H. oath. And there is another doctor. And there's no guarantee he could have saved him. Juliet is not the expert...

The actions of Kate and Sawyer ultimately make Ben what he is - not Sayid, not Jack. THEY CHOOSE LOSS OF INNOCENCE FOR ANOTHER. They and Richard - but I think Richard is above the worldy fate and free will stuff. He simply states a fact. Too bad the innocent himself couldn't make the choice.

And if the cycle is to continue - Jack must refuse in order to get Ben to The Others.

@Andrea - I think you may be right...I think there is a good possibility that Sayid has past his purpose for the show and the island. Perhaps smokie will get him now? (like w/ Eko)

Also...I love the New Jack but ONLY cause it sounds like he's starting to become a man of faith...in his own way

did anyone else think, when richard took ben into the temple, that ben was going to be inhabited by the monster kinda like danielle's team? does ben control the smoke monster or is ben the smoke monster?

At some point here Widmore and Eli are going to leave the island. I don't think it's going to be there choice. I think Ben is going to be responsible for it in some way. Interesting that Ben will not remember his past.

The ends doesn't always justify the means. Not when people are killed. That's what makes Ben a little evil in my eyes. Okay, more than just a little evil.

i dont think ben stays with the others from now on...wasnt he in a DI uniform when he gassed his dad?? i'm betting he went back to the camp and finds out juliette sent him to the others to save him and thats why he has that connection to her.

btw...A+++++

I also want to mention that, though I've always been a fan of Jack, I was SO proud of his turn around last night. Standing up to kate and putting her in her place? Awesome. Though, you could tell it pretty much killed him that she isn't happy with him no matter what he does. ( i hope they get together and work it out still!)

I also think it's awesome that Jack refused to work on Ben. I don't understand why Sawyer asked him to help Ben. Wouldn't that have blown Jack's cover? I mean, Roger said they don't tell you your job before you get there, but don't you think they'd notice that a guy who scored as a janitor on the aptitude test can magically perform surgery?

Oh, Buttercup, you're right. I just remembered the little crush Ben had on Juliette. It seemed so pathetic at the time.. I can see it in a different light now.

Daniel, glad you loved this episode. I did too. I liked and felt bad for Kate last night. I definitely need to go back and rewatch it.

buttercup, i forgot all about that! Maybe that's why Ben turns into such a cruel, heartless man. he entered the temple (like Rosseau's crew) and lost his innocence, which turned him into a maniac (Like Rosseau's crew?). I think ben goes back to Dharma as a spy.

Couple of things -

I thought at first the lady in the supermarket WAS Claire - made up all awful, kind of aged. I think her looking like Claire put Kate over the edge in deciding to leave Aaron with his grandmother.

Ben doesn't need any reason from the "past" to love Juliette - it can just be for her looks and winsome ways

Ben told Jack that once he got back to the island, he'd never be able to leave. Who knows if that is true, but if Jack believed it, then he basically renounced being a doctor by going back to the island. He didn't know what he was going back to . . .

I need more episodes with Ben and Locke. I thought most of this episode was ok but the end was great just because I got to see Ben and Locke. I do not understand why Jin and Sawyer wouldn't have just found a way to release Sayid or why they are so dead set on keeping things they way they are. The O-6 came back for a reason and now half of them aren't even in the same time period. I just want some answers I guess lol.

So, I am so busy at work today and I don't usually do this, but haven't read through everything yet, but I just have to say this....so everyone just accepts that when juliet is done working on cars she is now also randomly a mediocre surgeon and no one in the DI thinks this is weird?

fanolost-

Has your opinion of Kate changed since last nights ep.?

Or are we still hating Kate?

Gotta love the fact she aint getting no love from Jack or Sawyer!

I bet that Jack takes her back eventually.

Does anyone else think it's odd that Juliet has simply become the dr.? We've not seen this explained to the DI - but here she is operating - and Roger doesn't flinch?

Dang it! I got as far a flashest monk's 8:01 post and had to stop. You totally said what I was gonna say! I really liked this Kate! I was impressed with her acting, although I never really though of that as a problem. I just didn't care for the character at times. The actress is funny and beautiful in "real life". Anyway, she totally was a mom when she talked about losing him in the grocery store. And Sawyer...I actually clapped when he said he was doing it for Juliet. Not because I hate Kate, just that it was a mature and honest move made by a real man. There is a place for bad boys (Thursday night after the kids are asleep and I have had a drink or twelve. Thanks, hubby. Too much info? ONLY KIDDING!! Thursday is farmer's daughter night. ha ha like I have any sort of relations. I am a mommy!!). OK, back to business. I am going to read the rest of the comments, but I had to point out that flashest totally stole my comments. Great monks, er...minds think alike.

I didn't like Jack in this episode, for the same reasons I don't like Jack in alot of episodes. He is like a stubborn little child with tears in his eyes refusing to do what everyone thinks he should do. You could have re-wrote the scene with Juliet like this:

Juliet: Jack you have to finish eating your carrots.
Jack: I don't like carrots Mommy.
Juliet: Jack, you know vegetables are good for you, they will help you grow up big and strong.
Jack: I hate vegetables.
Juliet: I know honey, but you have to finish your carrots or you can't leave the table.
Jack: (tears in his eyes, face turning red) I hate carrots, I hate you, I won't eat them, I won't.

That stuff about his “purpose” and what the island wanted sounded more like Locke than Jack. But other than that, it was same old cry baby Jack. Christian needs to step in and straighten his boy out (and make him eat his carrots).

I was looking up Richard Alpert on Lost pedia and there is some info on the Real Richard Alpert and reas this..(Richard Alpert's colleague Aldous Huxley wrote a book called Island, which has been referenced in Lost, most specifically with regard to the Pala Ferry; Pala is a Utopian island in Huxley's book.) This man, Aldous Huxley also wrote JACOB'S HANDS: A FABLE and it is about a ranch hand who, after learning that he has the gift of healing, becomes disillusioned when he discovers that mending a broken body does not always heal a tormented soul. I thought this connection was interesting and this man, Huxley also was involved in the use of LSD and other mind altering drugs

Maybe somehow Dharma did know that Juliette was a doctor and that Jack was one, also. Maybe the lowly work assignments are a way to teach humility, part of the whole 70s eastern religion vibe . . .

@ilovelost - nothing will have me changing my tune on katey... she and roger deserve each other ;O

Yeah that was about the grossest thing I ever saw.

It reminded me of her and her drunk daddy!

Fake sarahbadara.....have you not noticed the REAL ssarahbadara has 2 s's in her name? Dumbass....get some balls and post your real name and quit using her's! I am sick of all these fake posters trying to steal other people's names. And seriously people, if all you are going to do is bitch about Daniel and how he doesn't care about Lost anymore, do all of us a favor and QUIT COMING HERE! Go find a new Lost blog or start your own!

flashest monk - I have to disagree. I loved Jack in last night's episode. He had a spine for once (haha - pun very much intended). He is a changed man who has decided that he alone can't be superman and come to everyone's rescue.

one thing i dont get though is if kate went back to get claire then whats she doing hanging out with the DI and running around trying to save ben??

@berky - um, they hid Juliet's talents and that was the big 'thing' with Amy and giving birth. Now she seems all doctor - and knows exactly what's at the orchid station as far as supplies.

I'd think Horace would be a tad more interested in why this was hidden?

Jack - has been there two days and was not 'signed on' as a doctor - remember he's under some other volunteer information - that pegged him as a worker.

It's odd

Great commentary this week. ME LOVE NEW JACK...

Another reason not to have Kate for a girlfriend...she'd make love to you one minute, then possibly shoot you the next.

can't wait til next wed

buttercup - haven't Kate, Jack, and Hurley only been back a week or so? She has to figure out how to look for Claire or get some help with the task . . .

@buttercup - THANK YOU. Kate's all about Claire, I don't THINK so...

She hasn't asked a bit about her. I'm tellin ya, it's more about Sawyer...

I just got to thinking of all the children that were "left behind", or now just 2nd generation Losties. Aaron, Ji Yeon, Clementine, Charlie, Walt, I'm sure I'm missing a few pieces to the puzzle, but I'm interested to know if anyone has any interesting theories on these children.

@Space Monk E- Thanks cuz, back at you. Came up with a theme song for you (can't pay you a salary as Supreme Ruler, at least you can have a perk or two like your own theme.) We could play it when you walk into the building like Hail to the Chief for the Prez or God Save the Queen for the Queen. (Its an old song, you might have heard it inuterii when your Mom was pregnant with you.)

Anyway, I think this captures you "this Blog is our Happy Place" philosophy. If you don't like it, let me know and I will keep on searching.

Here we come, walkin
Down the street.
We get the funniest looks from
Evry one we meet.
Hey, hey, were the monk-E’s
And people say we monkey around.
But were too busy singing
To put anybody down.

@nicole - I wonder what generation these kids really are... I think there's a lot more history than we know...

I think an older Ben "gets" a jumpsuit as part of the plot to infiltrate and annihilate the Dharma dorks, as a Hostile/ Other. Part of that plot.

Princess Buttercup, you make me think! Thanks!

OK, this is probably stupid, but did anyone else feel like Richard was the devil? Wait, I mean when he offered to take Lil Ben, but basically said "once he's ours, he's ours"?" Kind of like a deal with the devil sort of thing? Yeah, we'll take him to get fixed, but in exchange, his soul is ours? I am still working this out in my little brain, but that was my gut reaction to that scene.

@ Nicole | April 2, 2009 08:45 AM

Walt is not second generation Lostie - he is first generation in my mind.

this sucks. I have conf. call and a meeting..

So if the "Charles" that the others mention is Widemore, then is Penny there on the island? Was she born on the island? How old is she? She looks mid-30's to early 40's, so she may have already been born. Does Little Ben forget ALL of the Losties when he forgets Syid shooting him? He didn't seem to recognize any of them when they crashed in 2005.

Strong powerful scene when Aaron disappears at the Supermarket (I sure more than a few of you mothers viewing LOST had your blood pressure raised more than a few points.) Two thoughts, was that woman who was walking away with Aaron a perfect body double for Claire or what (my first thought was OMG Claire’s back!) Second, do you think that woman worked for Ben. The camera dwelled pretty long on her face which Is sometimes an indication that we will see an actor again

thanks for the compliment space monk e...i was starting to think all of my theories were inconceivable!! ;)

@ flashest monk | April 2, 2009 08:45 AM

That was ... wait for it.... AWESOME!!

thanks for the compliment space monk e...i was starting to think all of my theories were inconceivable!! ;)

Flashest: I LOVE IT!! Thank you so much. The Monkees!! I accept your kind gift of a theme song. (I almost feel all Ally McBeal! Gotta get me a short skirt and a law degree!)

Can we change it to "we're too busy Losting..."?

(cue my music)
Princess Buttercup, as you wish.

Yay! Thank you Daniel for being so timely!!!! Though an A+???? :)

I think the whole purpose of that girl in the supermarket was for her to look like Claire and for Kate to get thinking that Aaron really needs to be with his mom. I don't think we will see her again.

@ flashest monk | April 2, 2009 08:54 AM

I personally thing they lingered on out face so that people like us wouldn't debate all week if that was really Claire or not... they wanted us to know for sure that it wasn't :)

btw.. the actress who plays Claire is starring in the lifetime movie on saturday if you want your Claire fix

@ buttercup and Space Monk E. Wuv..twu wuv (Hope you get that, wasn't sure how to type it)

Hooray for Jack making sense for once and deciding NOT to help Ben, who has done nothing but bad things to everyone. I'm curious if Eloise Hawking turns out to be this Ellie person with the Others. And...anyone else not real convinced Kate came back to find Claire? I just was so so not convinced. If that were true, why hasn't she started looking for her? I think there's another reason. Also, LOVED the scene with Locke "Hello Ben." heh heh heh. It's Ben butt kickin' time. I so love it!

@Space Monk E- Love, we are too busy LOSTING. I can't sing worth a lick, people actually give me dirty looks in church when I sing, but I can LOST all day one- Truthiness DAT!

(cue my music)
The woman in the grocery store was totally spooky. (Remember Hatchet Face from Cry Baby? Anyone?) Yes, she was taking him, I am positive. I thought it at the time, and so did Kate. I could see her trying to decide whether to press the issue or just get the heck out of there. My husband said "what was the point of all that?" and I think it's going to be important later. And she was totally wearing a wig!! Or I could be wrong about all this.

hahah S.M.E...now i'm off to find the 4 finger (toed) man!!

wuv is what bwings us twogether today...

@ CAM - wuv it! more outloud inappropriate laughter at work!

if only jack had saved little bens life he would have saved his innocence... STUPID JACK. He thought he did the right thing, when it was actually his fault for driving Kate to take him to the others.

OY.

awesome jenn3, i totally got taht!!!!

wuost wuv

I believe that Kate came back for Claire. How can she start looking? She is lost in Dharma-ville. I she saw leaving with Ben as her way out.

I totally have the urge to watch that movie now! Its a classic in my opinion

(cue my music)

Sandy:
(me having a Miles moment) Huh, hadn't thought of that. As soon as I read your post I got a flash of them walking away together when Kate first spots them, and your theory fits better than mine. Maybe that WAS the point and I am just assuming the worst. Good Point!!

@CAM and Space Monk E. My thoughts when watching his big scene (Academy Award winning by the way). First, dang, I could be in an extreme makeover for a week and my eyes would never look like that ever, dude isn't the devil, but he made a deal with the devil, (I think Dante talks about the Maybelline Devil on the 12th level in Hell, will check that.) Second, yes, there was a finality to the deal they were making with Richard, like a deal with the devil (but he's not Evil, don't go there.) And finally, the writers “crawled up a wall” when Richard Alpert said that Ben “won’t remember any of this”? I mean, we debate for one full week whether Ben will remember Sayid and then Hurley and Miles debate it for five minutes (and as we know five minutes on the island is like a week in real time and like three years in dog time) and they dismiss it with one line from Richard. Now that's crawling up a wall.

Very interesting OY....yeah...had Jack saved Ben, maybe none of that whole mess would've happened. Hadn't really thought about it, but yes, Jack not saving Ben caused this deal with the others that ruins Ben. Maybe you can't change the past because the future caused you to feel the way you do. My head hurts...

I REALLY am in need of a Faraday-centric episode.
I find him to be the most interesting character on the show right now.
I miss him so much.

Those criticizing Kate for saying she came back to find Claire and hasn't done anything about it yet...don't forget, they've only been there a few days at this point and obviously weren't expecting to land in the '70's so that's thrown a wrench in things.

I also had another thought...remember how Ben used to insist he was born on the island? Is it possible he thinks he really was since he may have no memory of his life before Richard took him...or maybe he was speaking metaphorically as in he was "reborn" on the island when Richard saved his life and transformed him.

@ CAM - I agree, she came back for Claire. She seems resolved to the fact that she isn't with Jack or Sawyer. I think she would like to be with Sawyer, but is okay with Juliet being with Sawyer. DISCLAIMER - at least for now.

@ Space Monk E. - (cue my music)

Hilarious

As I said in the comments on TMZ a few weeks ago, no matter what the Losties that are in the 70's do, they won't be able to change the future. If anyone watches Supernatural, it's just like when Cass (the angel) sent Dean back in time and he met his parents and grandparents. No matter what he did, he couldn't change what happens in the future.

Anyone else see that Roger Linus looks a lot like an older, rougher Sawyer? I'm not a big Kate fan, but to me she seems very needy, and I would have not doubt that she came back for Sawyer. After all, her relationship with Jack off the Island crashed and burned (again), it's time to move back to someone who, in her mind, was probably still pining over her. I feel very sorry for Juliet, after all, to me, she is prettier, smarter, and has the "whole" package, heck she's even Mrs. Claus, but yet she seems to keep getting dissed by guys for Kate. I'm glad to see that so far, Sawyer is not doing that.

Don't ya'll think that 3 years of being a mommy to Aaron is going to soften Kate just a little bit? Kate was totally self-centered focused on her survival and now she seems honestly concerned and focused on Aaron. I've seen it happen to lots of my friends. Once you experience mommyhood you basically morph into this self sacrificing person. I think Kate thought she was going to eventually screw Aaron up and it scared her. Whether she is just running away (back to the island) or is really going to find Claire remains to be seen. But I do think she has Aarons best interest at heart and a soft spot for children in general...(little Ben).

Only got to 8:36 comments but I must say I have always been on Kate's team but last night and in the weeks before I have been opening my eyes to the anti-Kate team. She never does anything with regard for other people. Some have said last night they felt for her. But think about it- she gave Aaron back not for his benefit but because she felt whatever... guilt, less than the best mom, etc. She went to get Ben help not for Ben or even her friends but becasue she decided it needed to be done. I know I am not being totally clear but she goes off half cocked with no regard for anyone else, ever. Season 2 or 3 I started to think she was an other because she always got caught (so much for being a great tracker). I am starting to feel that way again. Think about how much her actions affect everyone else. She is the one who, as it turns out, takes Ben to the people who end up making him "bad".

Posted by: Anonymous | April 2, 2009 09:08 AM was me. Sorry

Kate did a lot of letting the cat out of the bag last night. She told Cassidy and Claire's mom the truth about the crash and the island. Do you think that some of the other 06 did the same to people they trusted? Do you think that there will be any consequences in "present" time for this knowledge?

My fav part is "Liars!" I sometimes shout that at inappropriate times and it feels good! And I have been known to tell my husband to have fun stormin' the castle when he leaves for work. Gosh, it is good to be around people who "get it". Thank you!

@SamIam- I think we got a big clue into the management structure of the OTHERS in the very last scene (remember this is 30 years before Space Monk E's climb to power). When one of the Others comes running up to Richard and says wait, don’t you think you should speak to Ellie first and Charles is not going to like this. We learned: Richard doesn’t answer to either of them; seems like Ellie is in the leadership position at this point, (if the Other guy thought that he should clear it with her first). As far as Charles goes, to me, he is their Radzinsky (he's there him-good title for an episode),the young Charles we saw was very vocal, very opinionated and would definitely want something to say about saving one of the Dharma people, but not the leader (remember when we first met the young Charles, he was cowtowing to Richard), just a very strong voice (maybe the little brother of the Other leader- Ellie.) Also, we now know for sure that Ellie did know Ben from the past. Remember she indicated in Los Angeles (before the O6 got back on the plane) that she knew Ben by saying that Ben didn’t always speak the truth. She would have known him from this short period that Ben lived with the Others until he was healed. I say short time because he seems like he would have to go back to living with the DI people after he is healed because we have seen that he was with the DI until the purge.

Long time reader, first time poster. Do we know (as much as you can know anything on this show) that Ben didn't actually recognize Sayid when Ben was being tortured?

Ok, I just need to add:
I am so tired of the showing of Locke's face and the "Hello,..." Hasn't that happened a million times already? It's not a shock or a surprise anymore. "Hello, Jack."
"Hello, Kate." "Hello James.". "Hello, Ben."

Another thing:Because of last night's episode, we got into a family discussion of if we went back into the past and met a 10 year old Hitler or Bin Laden and you knew what he would grow up to be, and you were the only person who could save his life, would you? I say, hell no. So I just could not sympathize with Kate or Juliette saving a young Ben's life knowing what she knows he will do later.

Great episode!! It jumped around a lot, but I appreciated that they had Miles and Hurley discuss all the things we've been discussing!
Did anyone find it strange that Miles said 'when ben turned the wheel...' - how did Miles know about the wheel??? Did Locke tell everybody about it? I didn't think Locke knew about it under he fell in the well, and he hasn't seen anyone since then. Just a question to ponder......

to sarah badara - YOU QUIT. you quit reading and go find another blog. how dare you put that out there for Daniel to quit.

@ Good Omen - I was wondering the same thing last night. I don't think we do.

@yet another Jen- I have been in the hate Kate club but not today. What do you think about her going back to the island to find Claire? Do you think she did this out of guilt or truly because she loves that little boy? I can be persuaded to both reasons, but am really leaning toward her doing it out of love.

A whole Kate episode? Ugh! But we did fill in some important pieces. And my man Locke is back! Yeah!

@ Good Omen - I thought the same thing last night. I don't think we do know and it is possible he just acted like he didn't

Me76: Yes, when I first saw Roger Linus, I immediately thought "Sawyer?" He looks and sounds like an older version on some ways. Don't know if that's intentional or not, but I thought it, too.

I guess the posting gremlins are back. Sorry about the double post.

@ blondie "Did anyone find it strange that Miles said 'when ben turned the wheel...' - how did Miles know about the wheel??? Did Locke tell everybody about it? I didn't think Locke knew about it under he fell in the well, and he hasn't seen anyone since then. Just a question to ponder......

Posted by: blondie | April 2, 2009 09:17 AM

Now that you mention it.... I don't think he did know.

@ espenn | April 2, 2009 09:17 AM

That wasn't the real sarah badara - she stopped posting on the blog, she only posts on FB now.

I felt like listening to Hurley and Miles was like reading this. I mean, I kept laughing because they sounded just like some of us. And Hurley is so awesome. I laughed so many times during this episode. And in a way, maybe they were walking up a wall, answering some of the questions like "Lost for Dummies", just getting it all out there. I don't mind.
I did not like the scenes with Cassidy, for some reason. It had a weird vibe to me. Not sure why, yet.

@blondie - I think Locke told them about the wheel in "This Place is Death". I vaguely remember him telling them that he was supposed to turn the wheel, but Ben had done it. Anyone else remember this scene more clearly?

another jen at 9:10. Your comment made me think of something. So if Kate has been doing everything simply for herself lately, isn't she mirroring Jack during their first tour on the islans. I mean, he said he did those things to help people, but it was really his need to "fix things" that made him do it. We have seen a lot of role reversals, I'm wondering if this is yet another.

We have two great debates going on here.

1. Is Kate's return to the island in the best interest of Aaron, to find Claire and bring her back to the mainland? Or, did Kate return to the island because she was running away from her screw up? Her failure as a mother and her fear that she may be found out? Remember she already had someone (Ben's lawyer) contact her to get Aaron back from her.

The second debate is:

Is jack a man or a mouse? Well you know what I mean.

As you wish!

Princess Bride is one of my favorite movies.

Posted by: Anonymous | April 2, 2009 09:23 AM was me again...

None of the returnees had any idea they were going back to the 70s. They're on the main island, where Claire was last "seen." I don't think Claire can be on the main island. So only Sun and Frank can find Claire now - right? It isn't Kate's fault . . .

miles can hear dead people, he could have picked up about the wheel from when they were at the temple.

Maybe Dead Locke told him?

I mean, Claire can't be on the main island in the 1970s, right? But maybe in 2007, with Sun and Frank . . .

ok this is my first post...but i have tons of questions.most importantly....if juliet is on the island in the 70's how does she get off. and how does ben find her and send richard for her? remember she comes back because richard recruits her as a fertility doctor?

re: the discussion about Miles' comment about turning the wheel....Locke didn't know what Ben did or about the wheel until he fell in the well. Also when Miles was talking to Hurley and explaining that when Locke turned the wheel time was no longer a straight line totally reminded me of Back to the Future 2 when Doc drew the 2 time space continuum lines on the chalk board.

Space Monk E - I got a weird vibe in the Cassidy scenes as well. She seemed a little sinister, honestly. If Kate told her everything that happened, I wonder if one of Ben's or Widmore's people will get to her. No, that doesn't sound right, but something is definitely weird about Cassidy. She gave me the creeps.

@flashest monk, Tasha and whoever else defended ssarah badara - she said to tell you "Thank you"

Space Monk E - I got a weird vibe in the Cassidy scenes as well. She seemed a little sinister, honestly. If Kate told her everything that happened, I wonder if one of Ben's or Widmore's people will get to her. No, that doesn't sound right, but something is definitely weird about Cassidy. She gave me the creeps.

Back to Richard: Sorry if I offended anyone by suggesting he was the Devil. I promise not to go there! He is obviously your love muffin, and I will be nicer in the future.

@ mel45 | April 2, 2009 09:29 AM

All that already happened. If you listen to what Miles said last night - her past and her future already happened, being in the 70's is a part of Juliet's linear life, on a strange timeline.

wheres daniel?

@Jenn3 - Thanks for confirming what I thought about Miles and the wheel. Maybe it was a screw-up by the writers to just keep the discussion going because it was already confusing enough!! I had to go back and re-watch Miles and Hurley's 2nd discussion because it was priceless!

@Jenn3 - Thanks for confirming what I thought about Miles and the wheel. Maybe it was a screw-up by the writers to just keep the discussion going because it was already confusing enough!! I had to go back and re-watch Miles and Hurley's 2nd discussion because it was priceless!

@ mel45
We don't know if Juliet will get off the island.
Think of the time jumps as traveling between time zones. You still are 3 hours older when you travel from NY to LA but you technically have gone back in time.

Good Omen: Well put.

Mel45 and remember Miles said that the future doesn't change because they have come back to the past. Their past is now their present. I took that to mean that they could die or never return to the mainland and still have their life that led them to the Oceanic flight and the plane crash. That is the whole link to the Back to the Future reference. He existed when his parents were younger and before he was born.

Based on the Charles and Ellie commments last night - I still can't determine if they are married or siblings!

what does everyone else think?

I think that Juliet exists off the island in normal time, just like how Ben existed on the island in normal time and as a kid. I think that the Losties wiill be born and their life will happen off island just like it did before....I don't think I explained that well. Maybe everyone's doppelganger is really them and they flashed there after someone turned the wheel? jk

Though I dont have any new theories to contribute, I would like to say how thankful I am for the way they wrote Kates story libe this ep. I like that they all didnt return for the same reason. When Sawyer asked why she came back, I def thought she was going to say something like "for you." How cliche. But, NO! She came back to find Claire! I love when the Losties go on a mission! Kudos to the writers who have kept the story from getting too sappy or soap opera-ish.

So, what would happen if they went off island and killed their parents? (hypothetically, since some of them were already born by this point so it wouldn't matter. Or hypothetically because it's a freakin' TV show!)

@ blondie | April 2, 2009 09:38 AM

Married siblings? haha

@ Space Monk E -THey would slowly start to fade out and wouldn't be able to play Teen Angel at the school dance

OK, and if Ben couldn't come back to the 70's because he was already there, why couldn't Sun come back?

I don't think thats why Ben couldn't go back to the 70's. They can be on the island with their other selves.

I think I am getting a headache... is that my nose bleeding?

Jenn3: Oh! duh! Thanks, Doc Brown.

But remember when Kate saw herself delivering Claires baby on the island. They have already established that a person can be present with themselves in the past.

wow- this conversation is so bizaarre....

Yeah, I guess Sawyer was during the flashes, because he saw Kate and Claire, meaning he was also around somewhere, too. Or his other him. The past him, not the present him, who would be future him to past him. Sorry. And yes, CAM , I think you need a tissue. I know I do.

I hope not CAM I don't want to have to go all Faraday on you!

Or someone saw Kate deliver Claires baby. They were inferring that they were on the island at the same time as their past selves were there. Locke knew he was at the same time frame when they blew open the hatch and if had just walked over there, he would of seen himself.

You all are missing the most striking moment in this episode: Richard was alone with a small boy in a dark room in the Temple, doing something that would make him lose his innocence. :)

@TeresaLynn

No, Kate didn't see herself - Sawyer saw Kate and Claire when Kate was delivering the baby!

@ TeresaLynn | April 2, 2009 09:44 AM

Sawyer saw this, Kate wasn't back yet

So, will we see Claire, again?

you're so disgusting anonymous...go crawl under a rock and die please?

did you get that TeresaLynn? haha

@ Space Monk E -
POTENTIAL SPOILER
Although I don't think it is

Claire will be back next season, but is not in any eps this season

END OF POTENTIAL SPOILER

Anonymous.....that random thought entered my mind, but I wouldn't let it go there. tooo disturbing.

blondie, yeah, I knew that right after I posted it. But the essence is still the same. They were on the island with their past selves. So it is possible to co-exist at the same time..your present self with your past self.

Tissue please.

TeresaLynn - I agree, it is possible. I don't know what the reason is for some to flash and others not. hmmm. Also, IF Miles is Dr. Chang's baby, they are existing in the same time simultaneously!

sniffle sniffle

uhmmmmmm...thanks for keeping me oriented. I may already be pulling a Faraday????? mass confusion followed by lots of weeping and tissues.

uhmmmmmm...thanks for keeping me oriented. I may already be pulling a Faraday????? mass confusion followed by lots of weeping and tissues.

i liked Kate in this episode - i actually felt sorry for her that it seems Sawyer has moved on from her and is happy with Juliet and the new man that he has become.

LOL! This was def a good ep...when was the last time everyone was this excited to post stuff and had nose bleeds and headaches?

I love how Jack is now a man of "FAITH" and not "SCIENCE". I think in the end(I've said this before) he'll end up more important than Locke or Desmond.

Did anyone notice how creepy that womans eyes were that found Aaron. I'm not saying she'll be somebody down the road, but she just looked freaky.

@Scott - Yes, i thought that claire lookalike was very creepy! Kate really looked scared that she was going to take Aaron away.

I also agree that the Cassidy scenes didn't sit well with me either. I wonder how much she'll be involved in future episodes.

But will Claire be now Claire or flashback Claire?

Speaking of Princess Bride, there were parts of the Hurley/Miles exchange where Hurley sounded like Vinzini trying to figure out what glass of wine Wesley put the iocane poison in. (clearly I cannot choose the glass in front of me, dude....)

@Space Monk E

LMAO!! Thanks for the laugh...

I agree with other posts -- doesn't anyone in DI think it's a bit odd that Juliet is a doctor on the side???

there is a lot of criticism of kate and her relationships, but if i recall, she is not to blame for the falling out with jack. things appeared to be going well (off island) until he started drinking, drugging, and just going crazy. kate seemed happy until he went batty.

Maybe that's why Roger and Kate discussed why Kate couldn't work the winch? Like they just bring you to the island and give you a job. He didn't freak that she wasn't what she was suppose to be. Maybe they just assume Juliet was given the wrong job. Now, why she went 3 years without mentioning it is a little odd.

I am starting to have problems with my tenses. (could/ can, did/ do.)

Michelle, No one in the DI thinks at all. They are too busy chewing on sugar cubes.

Daniel changed Desmond, he suddenly remembers what Daniel wanted him to do. so i think definitly they can change the future

I think if I understand what you asked Space Monk E she would be now Claire.

@ flashest monk - Ha Ha!
Hurley kinda reminds me of Andre the Giant.

Ethan to Ben:

Hello, my name is Ethan Rom (Goodspeed) you killed my father, prepare to die!

Jenn3 wins! Too funny.

Michelle, No one in the DI thinks at all. They are too busy chewing on sugar cubes.

Thank you Space Monk E. I couldn't have done it without you, buttercup, CAM and flashest monk.

(cue the you've ran out of time during your speech music)

Could anyone tell for sure if Richard took Ben to the Orchid or the Temple? We've never really seen the Temple since its the only sacrid place on the island. Also, when is Jack's grandfather coming back into the story, I definitely think there is more to him then that 10 min spot a few episodes back

Now that we know that little Ben was taken to the Others to be "saved" and we know the consequences of being "saved" (loss of memories, loss of innocence, not being the same), I think that is eventually what will happen to Ethan. I think he is taken to Richard because he is dying and he becomes an Other.

Locke was there when Ben turned the wheel. He and Faraday explained it when they were flashing .........They knew why they were flashing.So that is how Miles knew about Ben turning the wheel. Right???

did anyone else think it was hilarious that jack was just washing dishes in the background of Hurley and Miles second conversation? then he just left the kitchen and went to take a shower while they were still talking. thought it was so funny that he doesn't care anymore.......

robbinwith2b's - Locke wasn't there when Ben turned the wheel he had already left the Orchid to go find Richard.

angela - it was the Temple. We saw the outside of it during the 1988 Russeau scene

@robbinwith2b's - locke left before ben turned the wheel - he was by himself when he did that. locke just knew that ben did something, but i'm pretty sure they didn't actually know what he did and that he had turned a wheel.

@ angela | April 2, 2009 10:19 AM

Pretty sure it was the Temple from our run-in with it in the Danielle/Jin epi

I guess I just assumed that Locke knew what Ben was doing.Thank you.

Maybe Miles knew about the wheel b/c construction has already started on the Orchid.... and Daniel would know about the sonogram pic/ or Miles would know b/c he is on security team.

Time for me to hit the gym. Thanks, guys, I'll check back later tonight.
(If only I could post and work out at the same time. )
Bye!

Thanks, Daniel for my laugh of the day. There are those of us who appreciate you. Just a thought,There has to be a doctor to fix up Ben in "Otherville" Maybe a young Christian.

@flashest monk: Crawling up a wall, indeed! Good call - I totally agree that Richard saying Ben won't remember any of this was the producers way out of a conundrum.

@ShamelessAddict: I had the very same thought regarding Ben's possible belief that he was born (or reborn) on the island.

@GoodOmen: No. I don't think we know that Ben didn't recognize Sayid at the time he was being tortured. Quite frankly, now that I am thinking about it, do we ever really know anything on Lost?

@Space Monk E

That's the price you pay for vanity. LOL !!!

@CAM and everybody, so I am kind of bummed that the haters have driven ssarah from the BLOG. It kind of came to me last week that Lost in Texas is gone as well. If this were LOST, I would suspect them of having a DUI in Hawaii, or something. Anyways, sad... :(

@robbinwith2b's - I thought the same thing, although I had the wrong episode. Ben showed Locke a video in the Orchid telling about the time transportation properties of the vault. I'm thinking the wheel was mentioned in there somewhere (or maybe I'm just time traveling).

Jenn3 your right.. we have to remember that Miles, Sawyer, Daniel and Juliette have been on the island for 3 years. They definately have insider information at this point. There could be a lot of things they know about that we don't know just yet.

Thanks, Daniel for my laugh of the day. There are those of us who appreciate you. Just a thought,There has to be a doctor to fix up Ben in "Otherville" Maybe a young Christian.

TeresaLynn - those are my 3 favorite words...ha ha

to piggy back on what flashest monk said, It is sad that ssarah and LIT aren't here anymore. I don't have facebook, but everyone in the lostdiary group, please tell ssarah and LIT (if there) some of us miss them and in case ssarah reads and just doesn't post - At the end of all of this will you please put your final theory on here?

Kate came back for Sawyer, not Claire. She only told Claire's mom that so she could leave Aaron with her and return to the island.

Miles spoke the truth on time travel and Hurley played the role of those unable to comprehend the LOST rules of time travel.

What if Jack would have saved Ben, would he have turned out different? NO, Jack never saved Ben, whatever happened, happened. What we saw is what always happened, please rewind your TIVO and listen to Miles again.

Some way, some how Ben returns to Dharma and works for them again. As Ben worked with his dad up until the day of the Purge. So it is very possible for him to remember some of the LOSTies and Juliet from his time after being shot.

Kate is hot, Juliet is hot, why choose sides, just sleep in the middle.

Ssarah posted on this site on Monday so she's only been gone a couple of days - are we sure she isn't on spring break?

Could there be a "Butterfly Effect" thing going on here? Except the players don't know it. Could the O6 have gone through this routine of going back in time to "right" things more than once. The island could have decided they still didn't get it right. The ones who left or died fufilled their purpose in one of the trips back.

Also, kudos for Jack who said no to saving little Hitler.

Did anyone notice Ben twitching befor ehe woke up at the end of the show? It seemed like he was having maybe an intense dream. I wonder if, as he was sleeping, he "remembered" being shot as a child(the same way Desmond did when faraday knocked on the hatch).

Could there be a "Butterfly Effect" thing going on here? Except the players don't know it. Could the O6 have gone through this routine of going back in time to "right" things more than once. The island could have decided they still didn't get it right. The ones who left or died fufilled their purpose in one of the trips back.
Also, kudos for Jack who said no to saving little Hitler.

I let ssarah know - I will try and track down LIT too and let her know as well.

OMG, just blew my mind. Haven't thought it all the way through so have at it but... If when you are "fixed" by the Others/Hostels, you don't rememeber it doesn't that open up all our Losties to having been "fixed" at one time or another, with no memory of it. That is why they are now all "special" and their time is all screwed up, why they can't for the life of them "get away". Maybe when the plane came down?

Thanks CAM! Sorry to make you be the messenger.

Jenn3

I think its Earth Angel

Did anyone else cheer when Juliet called Jack on his crap!!! I mean...this whole came back to save you..PLEASE. It was great when she tossed out..it's been three years..almost like "Punk, if you wanted to save us, you would have found away back right away..not lived your life for three years" It's about time that someone told Jack how it is!!!

Or maybe that explains why Amy is so weird. At some point something bad happened to her and her dead hubby or whoever took he to be "fixed". So she isn't whole Dharma or Other.

@ssarahbadara-you are very welcome!

I too am sad that the haters have driven ssarahbadara and other regulars away.....please come back guys! It's not the same without you! I hope you are at least still reading but you should start posting again! You can't let people like that get to you, just do what I do and laugh at how pathetic their lives are that they have to harass people on an online blog. It's kind of sad really, I almost feel bad for them.....key word being ALMOST!

(Now the haters will probably start attacking me next and I'm not on here enough to defend myself, so if there are any rude or obnoxious comments that come from my name anytime soon, they probably won't be from me!)

@ Ilovelost - You are right. I kept trying to sing it in my head and I couldn't remember, but I knew it was something Angel. Thats what I get for trying to be funny.

WHERE IS FARADAY!!! HE JUST DISAPEARS AND NO ONE MENTIONS HIM ON THE SHOW IS HE BUILDING THE ORCHID

@Kelly

Jack didn't think they needed to get back until Ben showed up and started messing with his head. Ben was the one who told him he needed to go back to save the rest of them. For all he knew, the rest of them were dead. He last saw the island disappear.

yet another jen at 10:50! I am liking the idea that the losties wouldn't know if the others had worked on them before. That kind of ties in with your earlier theory that kate may be an Other. hmmm.....

Faraday must have time traveled off the island, because he was working at the college in the 90's to meet Desmond

"9:21 -- Do you know how you've been having all these time travel related discussions over the past few weeks? About fixing the future, disrupting the future, changing the future? Listening to Jack and Kate and Miles and Hurley have these same conversations ... NOT HELPING!!!"

I actually thought it was AWESOME they were having the same debate we are!

Ben's face at the end was priceless!

Next week - real answers real answers!

that's all I got. work's busy. too bad the regulars are leaving but I don't do facebook so this is all I got! come back!!!

Faraday must have time traveled off the island, because he was working at the college in the 90's to meet Desmond

what is the group everyone is talking about on Facebook?

Jenn3- you are funny! I just thought you might want the right name...

Jake is a dick, I mean he didnt want to save Ben and as a result he created the lil monster.

Jack is a dick---LOL who the hell is Jake..too funny!

flashest monk - maybe Jack is RIGHT and if he saved Ben then the rest would not happen and it is meant to happen - the island did send Sayid to the 70s instead of keeping him on the plane in regular time. I can only think that when the island acutally wants Jack to do something he will know

I went on Lostpedia and read the synopsis on most of the episodes pertaining to The Orchid (This Place is Death and the last 3 eps of season 4) - it doesn't appear that anyone other than Ben is made aware of the fact that the donkey wheel is turned. The Orchid video doesn't appear to mention it either. I think we have to assume at this point that Miles must've acquired the knowledge in the 3 years they've been in Dharmaville...like othes said, through Daniel's work down in the Orchid, etc.

Several things:
First, I still think Juliet will play a role in helping Ben further, I never thought it would be Jack that saved Ben…he has to come back to Darma since he doesn’t officially join the others until he is much older. I have been convinced for some time that Juliet is going to somehow help young, injured Ben and begin his obsession with her and explain why he felt such a claim to her in the earlier seasons. Do you remember when Juliet was in a therapy session with the wife of the man she was having an affair with and she told the lady that Ben liked her and she didn’t want to lead him on? Well, her response was, ‘of course he does – you look just like her’. Hmmmmm….
Second, stop dissing Kate – I just LOVE her and I can’t take you dissing on her!!
Third, am I the only one who desperately misses the comradely of the first several seasons where the Losties were wondering around the island finding things out, helping each other and crazy stuff happened. I was kind of hoping that when they got back to the island they would all be together and figuring it all out. All this separateness between Darma/non Darma and 1977 v 2007 is just driving me crazy – I want the Losties reunited and together and the Darma people out of the way already. They have bigger fish to fry with Widmore, Ben, Jacob and such. Hurry up all ready!!!

Can someone please provide me ssarah's personal e-mail address and/or cell phone number? I have something I need to tell her. Thanks.

To the Hof: I love seing hot men out of the shower the water makes them look vulnerable and a tough hot vulnerable guy oh my. I'll take Jack or Sawyer (that wasn't la fleur last night that was sawyer helping the woman he loves like he often helped Kate in the past.

I don't hate Kate so I don't get all the Kate hate either.

Just remembered something: Do we know how it is that Jin knew that Charlotte spoke Korean?

@shameless addict - didn't Locke sort of know about the wheel - or something? He was with Ben... then he could have passed it on to Miles. Need to go back to that episode.

@Michele - didn't Jin and Sun catch Charlotte listening to them?

Lets_get_lost:Kate came back for Sawyer, not Claire. She only told Claire's mom that so she could leave Aaron with her and return to the island.

Couldn't have said it better. Remember, earlier this season, Kate woke up and found Claire by Aaron's bed and told her, "Don't you DARE bring him back!" She had to tell Claire's mom something besides "I'm lonely and horny and my stateside boy toy isn't into me anymore, so I need to take a tropical vacation to find a sandy-blonde piece of ass.." I don't think that would have flown too well with Claire's mom. "I'm going to go find your daughter" is a much better excuse.

As for Miles knowing that Ben turned the wheel, I think his info came from Daniel. I think Daniel still has a crucial part of the story, and what happened to him in the past 3 years. Maybe Miles is still talking to him.

I don't think we can base our opinion of whether Ben recognized the Losties in Season 2 when he was a prisoner on Season 2. I recently read somewhere that in Season 2 and 3 that some of the story got a little off track because they weren't sure if the show was going to last or not. It wasn't until they were able to secure the rest of the series, to have it end when and how they wanted, that the story got back on track. It's possible that they didn't know that young Ben would be in the 70's with the Losties when they wrote/produced that Season. Also, even if he did recognize them, it's not a Ben-thing to say "Hey, I remember you". Ben keeps his secrets and feelings closely guarded. And Michael Emerson is a phenomenal actor, look how genuinely surprised he looked last night when Locke was back from the dead, again. You'd think he'd be used to it by now.

@ Kelly | April 2, 2009 10:56 AM

That already happened - he doesn't need to get off the island to do it again.

Hey, so I was going to stop posting just b/c I didn't have the time for it. And apparently I'm still talked about. LOL. Oh well. Haven't posted since Sunday or Monday because I've had tests every day this week so I've been super busy, and spring break starts next week. (For those who were wondering).

On to last nights' episode...

Someone mentioned young Christian being the Dr to save Little Ben and that is a great idea...props to that!

Jenn3, I remember reading something about the social contract theory - I suppose you could say Rousseau and Locke were the front runners for this theory. Also, it's important to note ( I think ) that they are both empirical philosophers - what they discuss is based on the senses and the experiences we have. Remember John Locke (the original) had the theory of our minds being a blank slate - Tabula Rosa (also the title of a LOST Locke centered episode).

I still think Ellie and Charles are brother and sister, maybe Christian is their sibling as well...tying in all the family connections. Now, as far as Richard not caring what they say, I keep going back to the messenger role for him. He doesn't care what they think, as he is a direct representative of the island/Jacob, but he still kinda has to go along with what they say, but they can never really punish him.

I think the writers did a great job getting us to sympathize with Little Ben when we already knew the personality of Big Ben.
I'm a big fan of the time is not linear idea. I think at that moment in 1977 where Richard brought Little Ben in the temple is that moment in 2007 Big Ben wakes up with Locke in his face and realizes wtf has been going on for the past 30ish years.

I mentioned this before in passing. Does anyone wonder if there was anything to the breakfast between Ben and Kate a few seasons ago? Kind of like his school-boy crush on Juliet when she arrived on the island?

PS Sorry that was a lot. I had to put all my thoughts together.

@Jenn3 - Okay. That's the funniest thing I've read all day! RE: Ethan to Ben:
Hello, my name is Ethan Rom (Goodspeed) you killed my father, prepare to die!

Speaking of which, did you know there are FB pages of this character?

Still wondering how Jin knew Charlotte could translate his Korean in that previous episode...

Sorry Kelly, Cam is right, Faraday working at Oxford already happened.

And NO, Ben did not recognize Sayid because as Richard said, he will not remember anything after Richard helps him with the gun shot wound.

And Miles and Hurley were not having a debate, Miles was attempting to educate Hurley on the rules of time travel (in LOST). Hurley played the part of everyone watching who is not understanding what TPTB are trying to convey. Miles speaks the truth.

Someone said that Ben did not seem to remember the losties when they first landed on the island. Remember when he held Kate and Sawyer and told them many facts about themselves

@michele - read above - they saw her listening to them.

@ssarah - hi! and hoping the exams are going well.

Back to that breakfast. They did spend time on it - but if that was during the 'is lost gonna last' time - maybe it's just another 'lost scene.' It also may have been to 'soften' Kate up a bit to add to the cage/lust scenario.

Uh oh, I forgot that Ben won't remember anything that happened before he was taken by Richard. Thank you for the reminder Mr Factual.

I wonder if he will "remember" eventually. Kind of like when you might not remember something because you were too young, too drunk, etc and someone tells you what happened, or shows you pictures and you think you remember, but it's only because of what people tell you?

@Michele, because as someone else posted here, Charlotte overhead a conversation in Korean from Jin and Sun. They called her out on it, I believe it was Sun who questioned her. So that is how Jin knew she could speak Korean.

Also, if Ben is not going to remember anything before they got him, how did he remember his abuse as a child?

Mr. Factual - but Miles got caught in a conundrum with one of Hurley's questions - so I think the Faraday ideas are still in flux - and Miles is discussing based on what Faraday has imparted to the 07-77ers. I think he's still building theories and machinery somewhere on the island at the moment. JMO

Oh, good idea fanolost. I guess they had to make Kate seem vulnerable.

A couple more thoughts and I'm off...

Does anyone have a hard time w/Cassidy easily believing what Kate told her about the island?

Personally, I believe Kate when she says she is looking for Claire. I still hate her, but, I think after she talked to Cassidy she knew Sawyer wouldn't take her back.

Jin recognized Charlotte's understanding of his and Sun's conversations. He could tell by the look on her face when they were talking about Daniel's feelings for her - he saw that she noticed. It happened in the episode when Jin and Sun are holding Charlotte and Daniel at gunpoint and they don't trust them, so they are speaking in Korean.

Did anyone wonder how Richard knew that little Ben was Ben? As soon as he saw Sawyer he asked "Is that Benjamin Lionus?". Do you think that's because he's doing his crazy time jump thing or did Future Ben visit Richard the same way Locke did?

Glad to see you back ssarah! maybe Ben won't remember, but he just knows stuff and doesn't know how and keeps having deja vu.

Also Faraday being at Oxford in the 90's doesn't mean he left the island in the 70's. Oxford Faraday could be the original one and island Faraday is the original/past one due to time traveling. Everything still runs its normal course (Marty didn't disappear fromt eh 80's or 90's just because he was in the 50's)

Michele - Thanks!

I think when Sawyer jumped off the helicopter last season it was the first unselfish thing he had ever done. I do not feel it was to leave Kate, I think he did it to save Kate, because he loved her. I don't think he could be with Juliette if he had not learned to love another (Kate).

@fanlost: Ooh - missed your comment. Is that how Jin knew that Charlotte spoke Korean? Because he and Sun caught Charlotte listening to them? Hmmm... I don't remember that. So many things to forget on Lost!! I think I need to go back and re-watch over the summer as a build up to the final season.

@fanolost: i don't remember Ben ever specifically telling Locke about the wheel, and like I said, Lostpedia doesn't mention it either. I always found it funny at the end of season 4 when Ben was giving Locke instructions on what to do at the Orchid because he was going to give himself up as a diversion...Ben never really gave instructions beyond how to get into the Orchid.

I don't think Ben will forget his whole life, just the events leading up to him getting shot and probably some period of time around that event. He obviously remembers Annie, he keeps the doll she made him, so he won't be completely in the dark.

The helicopter was going to crash because it was too heavy.

fanolost - Locke left to go find Richard right after Ben blew a hole in the chamber or whatever you want to call it. He wasn't there when he actually went through the hole and turned the wheel.

@SamIAm: I think Richard knew who Ben was because they had already met in the jungle that time he was chasing his mom.

@ SamIAm | April 2, 2009 11:40 AM

Richard knew it was Ben Linus because Ben met Richard in the jungle before.

I don't think Richard is time traveling.

@ billy | April 2, 2009 11:42 AM

I was just going to say this. I think Richard said something like, "he won't remember this" as in the incident, not his entire life.

Thanks everyone for clearing that up!!

@SamIAm: Richard met Ben in the woods when Ben tried to run away. This happened before he was shot by Sayid.

Cassidy seems like a broken woman, drinking the hard stuff in her coffee, during the day with a kid running around. She didn't even shudder. Like she is used to it. She seems lifeless(good acting here if people feel creeped out). She is very bitter towards Sawyer but who wouldn't be after losing that hotstuff???

@SamIam, Richard knew who Ben was because they met before, 4 years prior I believe. Don't you recall the Ben flashback? Or the conversation Ben had with Sayid in the jail cell. Ben asked Sayid about Richard, Richard told little Ben to be patient.

@Fanolost, Hurley's question to Miles that caused the conundrum was resolved by Richard. If this already happened, how come Ben didn't remember Sayid when he was torturing him in the Swan? Ha - Hurley. As Richard said, Ben won't remember a thing prior to being shot and then taken in by the others. No more conundrum, Hurley's question was answered by Richard.

@Jenn3, there is no original Faraday and island Faraday, there is only one. Faraday already experienced his time in the 90's and at Oxford. Just because he travelled back to the 70's doesn't mean his previous history was erased. As Miles said, their timeline is no longer linear, 1977 is now their present.

@jenn3 and shamelessaddict - but Ben didn't discuss it? I know he wasn't there in the tunnel, but discuss?

I wrote earlier today (and likely on the old thread) that I think Locke now knows a boatload of stuff and it's gonna be interesting to see how he and Ben interact...

Awesome epi. I just love them all. And I love Daniel and think he’s hilarious. Big lovefest here.

Anyway, I was puzzled by a few things last night and would welcome some of your thoughts.
1) What made Juliette SO SURE that the Others had the capability of saving little Ben when the sophisticated Dharma people didn't? There was no hesitation in that decision and no discussion like, maybe they could save him, it’s worth a try, kinda thing. I just didn’t get that part. And I just don’t trust Juliette. Something about her is just too agreeable and too vanilla. I’m still bugged over the fact that she spoke fluent latin.
2) When little Ben was turned over to Richard Alpert, Alpert made a few definitive statements, like, “if we take him (Little Ben), he will lose his innocence.’ Well, wouldn’t Little Ben already lose his innocence just by being shot by a man he trusted? Why would handing him to the others make him lose his innocence? I think there was some hidden meaning in those comments that Alpert made.

Some comments:
1) New Jack is just contrary Jack. I don’t think he likes being subservient to Sawyer because he’s so used to calling all the shots. Therefore, he’s just being disagreeable with everyone. I find it annoying.
2) Kate had to have Aaron in order to bring out her maternal instincts that would eventually lead her to save little Ben. Had she not had the experience of mothering Aaron, I think she would have let little Ben die. She is a murderer, don’t forget.
3)Knowing Ellie and Charles were together on the island at the same time and we’ve never known who Penny’s mom is or who Daniel Farady’s father is, I’m beginning to lean towards them being bro and sis, like some of the rest of you.

As I suspected, someone has already posted something from my name....the comment at 11:05 asking for ssarah's email or phone number was NOT from me. UGH!!!!

Not trying to argue Mr. Factual I understand what you are saying, I'm just trying to say something like this (I know I'm not explaining it.):

I get that his previous history is not erased, but at some point the 90's will show up, probably right after 1989, and all I am saying is that Faraday would be at Oxford in the 90's even though he was on the island in the 70's and 2000's. 1991 Des was on island at same time 200_ Des was on boat with Penny sleeping. Or are you saying that Des only coexisted in both time frames because he is special and no one else would coexist in different time frames.

But wouldn't that change things... I mean if Juliet was always born in 1977 off the island, she would still be born in 1977 off the island even though her future self traveled back to 1977 on island as an adult.

I'm not even sure I know what I just typed.

@Mr. Factual - Ben does remember his father and the abuse - and we saw that in previous episodes. Are you saying he won't remember except for now going forward? Then that's a conundrum.

And then who's gonna fill him in on his last 13 years?

Something doesn't quite add up.

And while I'm ruminating... how come previews have Ben wanting to atone for his past? What the heck changed him if not for what Richard is doing to him now?

Or is Ben lying (what a surprise) about wanting to return to purge himself...

@LostinLost, I am not sure what you are saying when you mention "innocence". Ben wouldn't lose his innocence by being shot by Sayid, its not something you lose like that.

I am not fully sure what Richard meant when he made that statement. Children are born innocent, could it be losing his early childhood due to whatever Richard is going to do to him? I am not sure exactly.

fanolost - in the preview it showed Ben saying something to the effect that he broke the rules and thats what he has to atone for, but as usual it could just be creative editing.....

@jenn3 - holy cow.. I need to reread what you just wrote!

I'm afraid to go back and read it!

@Jenn3

Remember earlier discussions about time travel of the mind vs. physical time travel? I think Des was a mind-time traveler and the staybehinds and returnees are physical time travelers. But I forget why the difference matters . . .

@ Valerie
I, too, miss the Losties as a cohesive (semi) group. I'm also wondering what everyone else that was left behind is up too. They must be in the 70's now too right? Are they still living on the beach? will we ever see them again?

@LostinLost:

1) Juliet was an Other. She knows Latin fluently from this experience. I, too, caught the fact that Juliet so easily thought the Others could help Ben. As Juliet was an Other, I do think she knows more about them than she has told thus far. Maybe she thinks it's just not been relevant to tell at any point yet? Usually when Losties ask her questions about the Others, she does answer. Case in point - the episode in which she spoke Latin. She told everyone that Latin is Others 101, or something like that.

Comment 3) I find this theory interesting. It makes sense, and will be interesting to see how it plays out - re: Ellie & Charles as parents to Penny & Daniel. Hmmm....

Share the lovefest with Daniel's blog, by the way. :)

Great recap...er...live blogging. Whatever, I liked it! And I was so with you on the Back to the Future. I felt like Hurley was channeling me! Now, off to read the comments...

hi i was just wondering if anyone had a link to ssarah badara's facebook page or where she blogs, i really enjoy her theories.. Thanx if anyone does:)

@sandra, I agree, good acting by the woman playing Cassady. If anyone watched Deadwood on HBO, she played a very disturbed and broken person who was a madame at at one of the brothels in town. She did an awesome job in that role and its kind of weird to see her cleaned up and suburban as Cassidy, but I think she has plugged into the dark side a bit. I agree if she is making people creeped out, she is working that role. Also think that she is talking to a woman who fell for Sawyer just like she did, so there are parts of jealous, empathy, rage and longing mixed into her personna. Its quality acting.

@ berky, I remember the discussion, but I can't help but get stuck on the fact that regardless of how you time travel you still coexist in both times. We saw this twice with Des (mental) and we saw the physical version this season when Locke saw the light in the jungle and Sawyer watched Kate deliver Aaron.

hi does anyone have a link to ssarah badara's FB page or where she blogs? I really like her theories. Thanx if you do:)

I think the reason Ben says he "broke the rules" is that he killed Penny as revenge for Widmore killing Alex.

@Jenn3, I see what you are saying now with the most recent post. Let me clarify my stance a little better as well.

Your first post implied that Faraday must leave the island sometime after 1977 because he is at Oxford in the 90's. Which I feel is incorrect, as Faraday already lived the 80's,90's, and up until 2004. After the trip from the FDW, his present is now 1997.

After your most recent post, I agree there could be two Faradays IF he left the island sometime after 1977 and before 1990. The island Faraday would be quite a bit older from the 16 years that passed (1974-1990). So yes, you are correct, IF Faraday left then there could be 2 of him.

I do not know where (island) Faraday is now, my best guess is he left the island sometime between 1974 - 1977, to return to LA and build the Lamp Post.

THATS where I recognized her from THANK YOU flashest monk.

@Jenn3- you sound like Miles last night. This is the part where you ask us to shoot you. :)

@Jenn3 - But 1977 and 2007 do NOT coexist - it's the peoples' minds and memories that coexist??? There's something about this discussion that I just can't figure out how to say - interesting - I'll think about it as I fall asleep . . .

@ Mr. Factual - I didn't think what you first thought i did, I was trying to respond to someone else who thought but obviously didn't do a good job. I think we are now on the same page and saying the same thing.

Jacob, I am so addicted to this site.

@Jenn3- are you watching Damages. If not, you should tune in to see Timothy Oliphant (Sherriff Bullock from Deadwood, the guy with the soul patch and mustache). He cleaned up even better than the woman who plays Cassidy. You might just come back to LOST and slap Sawyer for being so unattractive.

@FanoLost, are you assuming that all the abuse of Ben by his father ONLY happened prior to being shot?

I don't see any conundrum at all, Ben won't remember much of what happened prior to being shot. But we know for a FACT that Ben returns to Dharma AFTER Richard (or whomever) heals him. Ben was working with his Dad before the Purge, so at some point in time he returns.

And I also believe the abuse will happen after his return. You don't think his Dad will be mad at him for stealing his keys and freeing a hostile? While getting Roger in hot water with LaFleur and Dharma? There is plenty of time from now, 1977 until the Purge in 1992. That is 15 more years of living with Dad and his hate for Ben.

maybe coexist is a bad word. They would only coexist if time traveling Faraday left the island and was off the island in the 90's where Oxford Faraday also exists

@ flashest monk ... sounds about right, but I'm too much of a wimp to ask to be shot LOL

back to the sawyer "I'm doing it for her" comment from posts earlier today.

Earlier in the convo with Kate and Sawyer they were talking about Sawyer's daughter - and how Kate couldn't let a 12 year old child die - and Kate asked Sawyer why he was helping Ben, and he said "I'm doing it for her."

Everyone assumed it was Juliet that was the "her" and I agree that he has been very sweet and loyal to Juliet, but I took the "her" to be Clementine. He couldn't let a child die because he couldn't imagine someone else letting his child die...

does this make sense? or do people most definitely think it was Juliet. I took it as a father-daughter type thing.

anyways, this is the first episode in the entire SERIES that I have actually liked Kate.

@flashest monk - will have to start watching that. Right now I'm trying to get into Kings becuase Swingen (no idea how to spell it) is on that. But he is just weird clean!

mr. factual, i think there would be another faraday because what about the faraday that was a kid back on the mainland while the losties are in the 70's...wouldnt that faraday have to go through the same events???

@ jb - I took it to be Juliet because the sentence before that he said something like Juliet said its wrong to let a child die.

Best line of the night

"Lafluer doesn't ask a question he doesn't already know the answer to"

Thats right Roger!

A few of things still bother me:

If the temple is so important to the Others, why was Rousseau's team able to get to it without being intercepted? They climbed down that hole, or got pulled down, and emerged "sick," but isn't it strange that they were even able to find the Temple? I mean, the Others always seem to be everywhere, hiding in the trees and popping out when you least expect them.

Second, how does little Ben re-enter the Dharma Initiative? At the very least Sawyer and Kate know that he's been turned into an Other. Someone is bound to notice that he's not in the infirmary any more. But we know that he grows up to be part of the DI, a workman like his dad, until he takes part in the purge. If Horace and the others (excuse the pun) were so suspicious of Sayid, why would they let Ben back in?

Finally, Miles said that the Losties' "present" is now located in the past so anything can happen to the Losties but they cannot change anything for the Dharma people. (I think that's what he said. Frankly, I was as confused as Hurley.) Does that mean that even if the Losties weren't sent back in time that someone else would have shot Ben? I still can't get over the feeling that we were watching the cusp of a change for the better for Ben. His dad was so upset that he was hurt that he seemed to realize that he needed to shape up and that Ben was acting out to get his attention (or to hurt him for his neglect). But right when it seems like it might turn out all right they send him to the Others and put the whole Evil Ben into place.

@Buttercup, yes, Jenn3 and I cleared up our miscommunication. Please see my post at the 12:04 mark, I agree.

@jb- I took "doing it for her" as doing it for Juliet and LaFleur not saying Juliet's name out loud to Kate because he knows how much it stings. He is a sensitive guy.

I'm confused about Clementine's age because didn't Cassidy say she was in her crib sleeping when Kate first arrived and three years later, she is almost as tall as Aunt Kate when she comes to the door.

I thought the scenes between the two actresses that play Kate and Juliet were outstanding last night. Juliet's blinking eyes when Kate said she and Jack had been engaged was tremendous. She said it all with the eyes.

YES buttercup! thats what I've been trying to say but much more succinctly put.

Sorry, I haven't read all the posts yet, but Richard knew it was Ben when they carried him up because he already met Ben in the forest when Ben was 12. When he is shot he is 14 or 15, according to the interview with the actor who plays young Ben.

After reading some of the posts, I want to reiterate that Richard said Ben won't remember any of this. Richard could merely be referring to the action of Ben being shot & saved -- not necessarily to his entire childhood up to that point.

count me in as another person who thought cassidy seemed.... off. too attacking and sarcastic maybe?

@Jenn3- I was watching an old Westwing where Locke was a General in the Joint Chiefs in the situation room and Sweringer was a Russian diplomat speaking with a Russian accent. Now that's weird.

Everytime I see Al Swerigen the actor, I think of the Chinese guy trying to say his name, no wonder none of us can spell it.

@Lorray, we can't speculate what if the Losties didn't go back in time... because they already did go back in time, they always did go back. Part of not changing the past, their role in the history of Dharma and the Others was already written they just needed to play their roles.

Yes Richard said Ben wont remember being shot. But it happened just now for the first time and Ricahrd doesn't know about the second time line they are running on, So It could be vrey possible that Ben will wake up and remember Sayid shot him, just like Desmond.

@ flashest - me too, followed by what came out of the Chinese guy's mouth next.

Richard said that Ben would always be one of them now, the others. Seems like it would take some time for them to teach/indoctrinate Ben in their ways. Maybe a few years, even, before Ben returns to the DI like the Prodigal Son. Only he will still be an Other and will eventually help out with the Purge.

@Ilovelost - I totally agree.

in the last minute with Richard carrying young Ben into the temple, we switch to the hydra station and old Ben waking up. As the camera zooms out, someone walks past the camera carrying something. Is this Richard carrying young Ben?

Also, isn't it odd that (dead) Locke welcomes Ben to the 'land of the living'?

@Ilovelost...NO. There is no 2nd timeline, only one timeline. Ben does not and will not remember Sayid shooting him. If he did it would have happened already as Hurley eluded to, in the Swan when Sayid tortured him.

Nobody is just like Desmond, Des is different, he is special. ONLY Desmond had his mind travel in time, his conciousness in two places at once. After the accident (Swan failsafe) and leaving the island forced Dez to need a Constant, his mind no longer functioned like everyone elses. His mind is not stuck in linear mode, so he was able to receive and process and old conversation with Faraday and remember it as a memory.

It would have been funnier if Locke was like "Welcome to Hell BEN"...LOL

And Miles and Hurley were not having a debate, Miles was attempting to educate Hurley on the rules of time travel (in LOST). Hurley played the part of everyone watching who is not understanding what TPTB are trying to convey. Miles speaks the truth.

Posted by: Mr Factual

Mr Factual isn't Mr Good Memory - you forgot how Hurley stumped Miles.

They are the new best buds I think!

mr. factual i'm still confused,
you said: "I agree there could be two Faradays IF he left the island sometime after 1977 and before 1990." why would the '77 faraday have to leave the island in order for there to be 2?

No - Ben does not remember Sayid shooting him when he was a prisoner because as Richard said, Ben will not remember being shot. It's not necessarily because of any timeline issue. As Miles was explained to Hurley, they are in Ben's past. Hurley questioned, if that were so, then why doesn't Ben remember being shot by Sayid? The question perplexed Miles because the answer is that Ben SHOULD remember given the theory Miles just explained.

The answer is provided by Richard when Richard explained that Ben won't remember being shot if he "fixes" him.

Or am I confused now? LOL

...feel that nosebleed coming on

@glee, it is your memory that is not very good. Please recall what stumped Miles... I already answered this above, but one more time for you won't hurt.

Hurley stumped Miles by asking him why Ben did not remember Sayid (who shot young Ben) when Sayid was torturing Ben in the Swan. Miles was stumped...

Later on in the episode Richard supplied the answer to Hurley's question to us the viewers. Ben won't remember being shot by Sayid when Richard or whomever heals him from the wound.

Apology accepted, let me know if I can help you some more.

Well Desmond is special, but as far as him only remembering Faraday telling him to come back to save everyone they left behind on the island after the 2nd time of that actaully happening in history has nothing to do with Desmond being special and time traveling, if that was true Faraday and Juliet and Sawyer and everyone else with them would be special too. So it is very possible Ben will remember Sayid shooting him after he wakes up. That has nothing to do with Desmonds Special Time Traveling.

@MrFactual
I think any child would lose his innocence after having been shot by a trusted adult because the world would no longer appear to be a safe place. So why would being turned over to the others make him lose his innocence even more?
@Michelle
Yes, I realize that Juliette was an Other which, to some degree, would explain her fluency in Latin. But Juliette is the only character to have been a member of all three groups, the Others, the Dharma’s and the Losties and I don’t think that’s just coincidence. People on this board have talked about her Botox face but I think that’s her character and that, as my mother used to say, ‘still water runs deep and dirty.” Not to mention that she said in an early episode that her favorite book was Carrie, by Stephen King. What’s the significance of that? I just think there’s more to her than meets the eye.

CHRIS2245
I am agreeing with a lot of what you say. If kate had gone back for Sawyer why did she not want to go back until Aaron was almost lost? Its about Aaron and her love for him and the need to find his mother for him. I also think her recent motherhood made her sympathetic to young ben which is why she helped him.

I did call it a few weeks back when I said that the only reason she told Jack to never ask her about Aaron was only because it was too painful to talk about.

"Now go write Desmond is not as Special as I think he is 100 times on the chalk board" Mr. Factual

@ flashest monk | April 2, 2009 12:17 PM

I don't think she said crib, I think she just said she was sleeping. 5 year olds take naps.

@buttercup, sorry about that. No Faraday does not need to leave the island for there to be 2 Faradays in the world. Same goes for anyone who travelled back, Sawyer, Kate, Juliet, Hurley, etc....

@Ilovelost, it has everything to do with Desmond being special. Even Faraday admitted, you are special is what he told Desmond. Faraday knows he is that is why Faraday attempted to send the message. Because he knows Desmond would be able to process it and recall it as a memory. You are wrong, Ben will not remember Sayid shooting him.

Well they were babies when Kate first went to see Kassidy and then 3 years later they were both toddlers-mystery solved.

Thank You Thank You very Much!

Latest Lost Untangled....always entertaining! http://video.aol.com/video-detail/lost-lost-untangled-511/3929832752/?icid=VIDLRVENT08

@ Mr Factual | April 2, 2009 12:29 PM

You need to lighten up and stop being and ass.

Well see.

I was just thinking how much I miss LIT's musings...Does anyone remember Ben's quote when he said that HE didn't order the purge...or did he say that "HIS" people didn't order the purge...maybe he said, "I wasn't the one in charge" or "Those weren't MY people"...help, please!

@LostinLost, do you know what innocence means? If a child is shot by an adult, how in the world would the child no longer be innocent? The child may lost his trust in his fellow man, or his faith in people. But the child did not do anything wrong or evil to lose his innocence, the child was a mere victim in the shooting.

@marco nothing, and everything is odd...

@Mr. Factual - based on what others are saying about what little ben might, or might not remember - he might remember everything. If not, then how does, and who, puts 'false' childhood memories into his psyche?

And I don't think the abuse would stop upon his return - but 15 years? He's 13 already... and previous episodes he recounts childhood abuse...

Yeah Mr. Factual your not being very nice.

I think you rudeness is quite annoying.

You are not Special like Desmond.

The Force is not strong with you!

No Mr "factual" you said they weren't having a debate and that miles speaks the "truth" miles doesn't know the "truth" or Hurley wouldn't have stumped him. It is not about IF it is true it is about the characterization of their conversation.

BURN.

@Cam, me lighten up? I am not the one resorting to 2nd grade name calling. Maybe someone needs a trip to the mirror, huh kettle?

Someone earlier posted that it's hard to believe that Cassidy believed Kate's island tales without thinking it was odd.

I agree. I think Claire's mother was in shock and not comprehending all the chatter.

But Cassidy just accepts this? And befriends her? hhmmm

Mr Factual for the record no hard feelings its fun to debate about a debate! I don't take it personally :O

If you really want to see a "hot" Timothy Oliphant, watch Rockstar ;) He's the guitarist in the rival local band that Mark Walberg gets in a fight with in the parking lot over their leather outfits.

Anyone else think that maybe Jack will be the scapegoat for releasing Sayid (this may be his purpose). That will allow Ben to come back to the DI and later become a Workman. I get the feeling Kate will have a hand in this "Jack, you need to do this" type of thing. Jack, now being a man of Faith, instead of science, will fall for it. Just my thoughts..

@glee, can you not read or did you smoke so much dope your memory is shot? BURN what? You made yourself look like a complete fool. Nice job putting your ignorance on display, like a billboard in Time Square.

@Ilovelost, I am sorry you are completely clueless to this show everyone else watches weekly. Please catch up and come back later after you have seen a few episodes.

[[[wrrrrwwww]]]

high pitched cat shriek with the claws coming out.

" Juliet's blinking eyes when Kate said she and Jack had been engaged was tremendous. She said it all with the eyes."

Posted by: flashest monk

Agreed I also caught that flicker she really is a great actress.

@ Mr Factual | April 2, 2009 12:39 PM

I never used the word ass in second grade.

Don't know why you are calling me kettle. I don't act high and mighty

Mindless 2nd grade degrating you say?

Burn!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Like I said the force is not strong with you my son!! LOL

moving on...

Did anyone else notice the brief clip in the scenes from next weeks episode.... Ben was walking up what looked very much like a dock pointing a gun at someone? Looks like we'll find out what happened to Penny/Desmond and perhaps how Ben got so beat up.

Yeah my son is in 2nd grade and he doesn't use Curse Words.

I think Mr. Factual has a man crush on ol'Dessie!!!

@MicheleD: Thanks for the link to the Lost Untangled. Always entertaining, indeed!

i think faraday told desmond he was special because des was on the island and off the island at the same time so faraday could get a message off island to his mom...i dont know if that makes des special special or just special in that instance.

sorry mr factual I don't see how you have proved anything yet Its LOST for goodness sake no need to become mr venomous because I wrote BURN. Cmon you know what that means.

they had a debate it was not a teacher teaching the student or miles would have had an answer!

I missed the previews for next week's episode! My DVR cut off just as they began.

Anyone care to share what was shown?

I liked this episode. More pieces to the puzzle.

Ok so since Ben won't remember that he got shot will he still remember juliet jin, and sawyer? He did live with them 3yrs prior to him getting shot. I'm sure he doesnt forgot his whole past. He does continue to live with the dharma initiative although he's a part of the others. He kills his father and he ends up working as a janitor as well.

Also Jack,Kate, and Hurley are included in the picture welcoming the new recruits in 1977. Has that picture always existed? Did Ben ever see that picture?

"@glee, can you not read or did you smoke so much dope your memory is shot"

Not yet but I have been trying for years now ;)

Kids - this is exactly why Anoymous calls some of you out as being snobs. EVERYONE is allowed their opinions/theories on this show, including Mr. Factual. You lament LIT and ssarah leaving the site because of haters and yet that is exactly what you are becoming.

@Ilovelost, I am shocked someone as utterly clueless as you even found their way to a LOST website.

Way to show us all how terrible a parent you are too, cant defend your point so attack my sexuality, real classy.

I am sorry but Ssarah never got rude and bit peoples heads off when someone wrote something she didnt like. So I dont see how that applies.

AnonAnon I think some of us who have been here a long time tend to stick up for one another on occasion, but personally I am only debating about the show not about whether someone is a jerk or high and mighty. I'm ok I used to debate in high school and college and believe me those debates were not pretty and not always respectful either. Its ok the only thing odd would be if we all agreed!

lol @ glee

@Michele...definitely fun. And my goodness, we could use a little levity here on this board, it seems!!! :-)

@Flashest Monk, remember when Clementine was a baby and Cassidy went to visit Sawyer in prison and showed her a picture of her? What year was he in the clink??
Also off topic to Flashest: Timothy Olyphant was in a chick flick
"Catch and Release" and was totally hot but creeped me out in "Hitman", but you have made me want to go rent Deadwood old episodes, sounds like it was a good show with all of these actors in it.

@ AnonAnon | April 2, 2009 12:48 PM

I agree that he is entitled to his opinion, but he doesn't have to be rude about it - and that is the opinion I am entitled to.

@glee. Miles has been living there 3 years and spent a lot of time with Faraday as well. Hurley has been back what 1-2 days? Miles was teaching him the lessons and wisdom Faraday passed on to Miles. Teachers do not have all the answers, not in any school I attended. Just because you stump the teacher does not make them less of a teacher. Miles simply did not have the answer, but Richard did. Trying to explain this is making me feel like Miles, here is the gun, shoot me...

I love the Gays and Lesbians!

You are obviously the one offended by that.

Timothy Olyphant in the movie "Go"...nice.

@MrFactual

Yes, I do know what loss of innocence means, but clearly you don't so let me define it for you. It implies a loss of naivete of life which is usually brought about under negative circumstances.

Thanks to Mr. Factual, I just discovered that some folks on the Lostpedia blog have been discussing, (at length), the "loss of innocence" line of Alpert's and there are some cool insights. If anyone is interested, go here:
http://forum.lostpedia.com/hell-lose-his-innocence-hell-t32753.html

We need a LOST pin up calendar just so I can look at both Jack and Sawyer shirtless and dripping wet yessssssss

Where is that gun at????????????

LOL

Who wants it after me??

AZWildcat: from Cabin Fever:
HURLEY: So... This is where you shot Locke and left him for dead, huh?

BEN: Yes, Hugo, I was standing right where you are now when I pulled the trigger. Should have realized at the time that it was pointless, but... I really wasn't thinking clearly.

[Hurley steps back a little]

HURLEY: Is that why you killed all these people, too?

BEN: I didn't kill them.

HURLEY: Well, if the Others didn't wipe out the DHARMA Initiative--

BEN: They did wipe them out, Hugo, but it wasn't my decision.

HURLEY: Then whose was it?

BEN: Their leader's.

HURLEY:But I thought you were their leader.

BEN: Not always.

Can we go back to getting along please?

Okay... I'm off to look up Timothy Olyphant...

>^..^<

@glee...where's the love for Sayid and Richard? Those two definitely belong in a Lost pin up calendar.

Give me all four! Sawyer, Jack, Richard, and Sayid...

What about Hurley for the calender?

@glee. Miles has been living there 3 years and spent a lot of time with Faraday as well. Hurley has been back what 1-2 days? Miles was teaching him the lessons and wisdom Faraday passed on to Miles. Teachers do not have all the answers, not in any school I attended. Just because you stump the teacher does not make them less of a teacher. Miles simply did not have the answer, but Richard did. Trying to explain this is making me feel like Miles, here is the gun, shoot me...

Posted by: Mr Factual

that sounds more like a game of operator to me than teaching. to teach you have to understand what you are teaching not just recite it. we don't even know if daniel is right or not, he said they couldn't change the past but in that enhanced episode it stated something like "according to daniel you can't change the past" which means to me that is only daniels theory at this point. I pay attention to those and when the one said "Jin is seemingly dead" I immediately thought then Jin is alive. When they state a fact there is no equivocation on it.

Timothy Olyphant kinda weirded me out in Deadwood as Sheriff Bullock - his teeth were too white and kinda took over his face...maybe it was the mustache.

please guys, let it go...no one is "right"...we're all here trying to figure it out and there's no sense getting our panties in a bunch about it.

@ glee | April 2, 2009
12:55 PM

Lost Calendar, do we have enough?
Jack, Sawyer, Jin, Sayid, Desmond, Miles, Daniel, Ben, Christian (for ssarah), Charlie (I liked him), Boone (I liked him too) and Keamy (for LSK)

Dont tell Factual he wears panties he will flip out on you.

@Ilovelost, I am done with you, gay basher and murderous thoughts, such a classy *****.

LostisLost, explain to me how Richard could take Ben's innocence if Sayid already did when he shot him as you claim? I agree the line is meaningful, I disagree that Sayid took it by shooting him.

Oh wait - trade Charlie for Richard and Hurley for Boone - ok?

CAM--NO Richard...I love him!!!!

@CAM, Boone, definitely. He is a looker!

Did it not bother anyone else when Kate was w/ Claire's mom & Claire's mom said "your doctor friend...Jack Shepard was here talking about Aaron...who's Aaron?" Or something like that...why would this woman who had an affair w/ an american doctor named Christian Shepard - that resulted in her only child Claire - not make any connection as to who Jack Shepard must be...I find it odd that she wouldn't be the least bit curious if the two were related.

Concerning Mr. Factual-I've been reading other posts-theories-blogs all day, and a lot of the "wording" this person is using..seems very familar, almost too familar: as-in-word-for-word.

A little copy-paste anyone?

Guys, not even sure it is actually Mr. Factual or Glee or anyone else posting and throwing around the negative energy. Me thinks you are engaging with a phantom Lost hater. Better to ignore.

amy - she knew they were related, remember she talked to Jack after Christian's memorial service

Chill out Factual- You sound so stupid. Take an enima and call me in the morning. It all good brutha...

You need to stop freakin out.

Boone - yes. But I hated that he was all caught up in his bitchy sister. Definitely a cutie, though.

@ ~*amy*~ | April 2, 2009 01:02 PM

She knew who Jack was, they met at Christian's funeral. Did she say, "Your doctor friend"? I don't remember her saying that.

@Amy, Jack met Claire's mom at his dad's memorial, so she already knew the connection, she told Jack about his step-sister Claire then too. :)

amy - she knew they were related, remember she talked to Jack after Christian's memorial service

The lost calendar:

January - Hurley because he is always positive and looking ahead

February - Kate. she's an aquarius I think

March - sayid moody moody sayid moody moody fishes

April - Locke because he was resurrected!

May - Juliet - she's a two personality gemini fo sho

June - Jin just because
July - Sun just because

August - Steamy Keamy cuz its a hot month

September - Claire - in honor of Labor day hehehe.

October - Daniel he's a sensitive little libra I think

November - Jack because he makes me give thanks allll the time

December - Sawyer he's centaur he's got the swagger.

Yes who sleeps with there sister. Gross!

Side note: Boone will be in the Twilight Movie "New Moon" Hated the movie, loved the book.

sorry about the number of posts responding to you amy......

boone & sister hmmmmmm.

boone maybe but not sister. I think the island judged her for one and for two sayid can't be happy can he or he'd never go shoot ben right?

Oh I couldn't stand Shannon. Her name was Shannon, yes? Boone's sister? She annoyed the heck out of me!

yep I hated shannon but she must be a good actress because she did such a good job!

I thought about putting in Charlie but I couldn't find a place for him. Steamy deserves a spot for being such a hunk

@amy - yes they knew each other but you're right and I thought it was verra odd - 'dr. friend' - as if there isn't that connection.

Unless time was changing all over the world and the poor woman didn't remember the funeral - or maybe the funeral never happened in this timeline..

sorry, it's been a long day

RICHARD OMG how could I forget....he's gotta be on the cover. The host of all the goodies inside....

dang they really could make a calendar! I would buy it in a heartbeat.

And then our mutual hate for a character brings us all back together!

Hope we can all continue to get along. Gotta go, have one more meeting for the day.

@ fanolost - I have a question, and it is sincere and in no way malicious - when you are typing verra are you channeling Franc from Father of the Bride? everytime I read it I can hear him in my head. LOL

I should go too... but work is so stressful I need the distraction. where did everyone go? maybe there are a bunch of east cost losties here.

I'm west coast (kinda)

I'm an east coaster glee and getting ready to go to my last meeting....sorry to abandon you.

ok I'm sure more will be back tomorrow. see ya jenn3

LOST calendar by month:

January: Jack=cold and gloomy
February: Des, cause of his devotion to Penny
March: Mr Echo=stormy
April: Jin=April showers and his "water"thing
May: Richard=Maybelline mascara
June:Boone=getting hot
July:Sayid=getting hotter
August:Sawyer=hottest and shirtless
Sept: Daniel Faraday=schooltime/looks like a teacher
October:Charlie=in costume as a Hobbit for Halloween
November:Hurley Thanksgiving
December:Ben=any episode with him is Christmas!!!

Promise to read all comments later but want to state this before I have to go:

Epi: A

Can't stop thinking about these two things:

Once Ben grows up and gasses Dharma, he doesn't gas Ethan. Why not? Ethan grows up as an Other. And why does Richard accept Ethan (remember how Ethan and Richard recruit Juliet to the island, etc...)...

And where is Farraday? We've seen everybody else except him!

Wonder how Roger Linus is going to feel when he learns Kate (and Sawyer) handed his Son over to the others?

You forgot Desmond! He HAS to be in the calendar, except of course with one of those little audio chips, so we could hear him say "brutha" and other delicious things!

I'm EST too... and very much needing to get back to work.

Quickly though, I simply must post something I just read on another blog. It's rather thought-provoking, and something I totally missed! Did this really happen? I'm going to re-watch tonight!

From the other blog (NOT a spoiler, just an observation):

Do You See What I See? Probably Not.
Not me, mind you... but the characters on LOST. Know what they see? Only what they need to see. Or more specifically, only what they need to be shown. Which is why when Jin turns little Ben over, the bullet hole in his zip-down hoodie is now on the exact opposite side of his chest - on the other side of the zipper. It's not even close, it's a complete mirror image of the spot where Sayid drilled him precisely through the heart.

Continuity error? Maybe on 24. But this is LOST, and we're seeing exactly what the island wants us to see, through Jin's eyes. But through the eyes of Sayid? For him the bullet went right through the kid's heart - no need for a coup de grace.

NO problem...y'all are all right...I do remember now...just need to review all my pages of notes b/f watching each episode I guess...5 yrs of this stuff is alot to keep track of!!! thanks!

Michelle, I noticed that, too. My first thought was hey...didn't Sayid shoot him right in the heart?

Glee, you beat me with the calenday idea, mine is guys only but I will have to work on a chick one too.

~*amy*~ I totally agree! 5 years of stuff... I've forgotten a few things today!

{sigh} why is it I'm always working late on Thursdays? As I said... back to work now!

Glee: I forgot Steamy!!!!
@Michele: LOSTPEDIA commented on the bullet hole too in the recap.
Amy: notes=good idea, I forget so much until I come here

Two thoughts:
1. I think that Sun is Chang's baby and that's why she didn't return to '77. I don't think that the past self and present self can be on the island together. Although Sawyer saw Kate and Claire in the woods, we don't know if they were able to interact. Although the time traveling Losties could interact with others on the island during those times, they never showed them interacting with themselves or other members of their group.
2. I have been racking my brain trying to figure out the significance of Amy's baby being Ethan. I'm sure that someone else has thought of this and it's probably been posted and I've missed it, but how does Ethan survive the purge? We were lead to believe that Ben was the only Dharma member who survived. Maybe Ethan means more to the island then we first thought.

Any ideas?

Anon @ 1:03, too funny, won't even assign a user name to your comment...LOL!!

Please do attempt to show your copy & paste from other sites, as I know for a fact that I did not nor do I ever copy and paste. All free flowing thoughts from a LOST fan. Go ahead and back it up anonymous

@ Is it Wed...

1. I dont believe Sun is Chang's child, opinion only. I do believe that Miles very well could be, as we have been told he has been on the island before. We have been shown Mr Paik, Sun's father, so while your thought is plausible, it is not probable, IMO. Heck, I would be willing to consider Jin, as Jin's own father wasn't even sure if Jin was his son. But I am sticking with Miles for now.

2. If I recall correctly, Ben said something to the effect of him being one of a very few who survived the purge.

@jenn3 - I'm channeling a past self...hee

I think we need a Miracle Max on Lost - to assist with all the 'almost dead' group of characters.

I haven't read all the comments, sorry in advance if someone else has mentioned this.

Did anyone else think it was strange that Juliet suggested that "The Others" could help Ben. Still think she is an Other true and true.

When Jack was saying to let the island take care of everything, I thought of Locke. I think Jack finally believes in the island, and by Jack not helping Ben, the island got what it wanted, Little Ben.

Wasn't Patchy an original Dharma too??-he survived.

@ Mr Factual:

Thanks for your thoughts. I need to go back and watch the first few seasons again to refresh my memory particularly with the Ethan situation.

@Michele - I thought little Ben was shot left upper quadrant - above the heart (and I thought a cheesy way for a trained assassin not to kill...) and last night it was his right side...

continuity?

Was'nt Patchy an original Dharma too??

Sorry-for double post-on a co-workers comp, was not signed in.

Daniel - great recap. Your grade was higher than mine! I like ANY LOST episode, but am enjoying the fill-in-the-blanks as much as the WTF episodes.
Will read posts after the weekend test is over.
Fake sarah poster - god were you obvious! All the regulars knew it was a fake immediately but I won't tell you why. Stop the hating.

I hope everyone doesn't leave and go to Facebook. My son told me that I was too old to have a Facebook page so I will have no where to blog and throw ideas around.

Who believes that Miles would actually shoot Kate, Jack or Hurley in the leg???? I love that Sawyer put him in charge of the "house arrest". Miles seems like the most passive lostie of all.

I just re-watched the episode and have a thought: when Juliet suggested to Kate that the Others might be able to save Ben, that look on her face was quite telling. It was a bit ominous, as if she possibly knew that if the Others did save him, Ben would be changed forever. Possibly Juliet knew that Ben would 'lose his innocence' and become the dastardly Ben we've all come to know? At that moment, maybe Juliet figured out how Ben became Ben - or she knew they were setting him on that path by saving him?

As always Daniel, I enjoyed your synopsis of Lost. Your humor has taken me out of quite of few funky moods. Thanks.

WOW, I go away for a few hours and I come back to find that we are eating our young AGAIN! Is this going to be a Thursday afternoon ritual or is this just a Lental seasonal thing? LOL

@sandra- I would highly recommend Deadwood, great cast. Be prepared for the dialogue, its written in kind of like a Shakespearan style English with every other word a cuss word. If you have small children, don't put it on until they go to bed, or they will get an education.

Regarding Timothy Oliphant (I know this sounds like a have a man crush here) but when Deadwood was on, I read an article that he was a competitive swimmer a USC (national champ in 200 medley). Explains those shoulders.

@Ajay- Good point, thought the same thing, I know I would not be happy if I found out someone handed over my son to the Hostiles (considering he has no idea little Ben had been talking to them.) There is a sh*t storm approaching the Losties for sure. Time for Sun and Lapidus to take them away to another time (woooh, just like Bill and Ted's Excellent adventure, totally awesome, too bad Rufus (George Carlin) is dead, bummer....

Looks like the room cleared out after the fight. Have a good evening everyone

@Flashest, only real men can admit to MANCRUSHES. Kudos for being honest. definately will rent Deadwood. My idea of a manwich would be Timothy and Sawyer. With a slice of Des too.

i got my dad the first season of deadwood for his birthday last july and he hasnt even started watching...i'm taking it back...if that makes me an indian giver, oh well!! what a great show!

Ben has the whole Darth Vader thing going on. We see him as evil first and hate him, then we see his past, find out what drove him to the "dark side", and feel a little sorry for him.

lost in virginia -

I agree! Darth Vader was evil, but we saw why he turned bad...he did it for love to try and save his wife!

I see Star Wars III revenge of the sith (where we see anakin turn into darth vader) as a love story.

I know I might be alone on this one - I've heard it all before.

I read this on onther site, so I'm not taking credit for it, but it definately got me thinking.

All this time we/I have thought that Ben was doing what he did "for" the island,(his love for it)

What if because of last night/Richard's statement-Ben had no choice in what he did, the island is the one "making" him do his evil deeds (and now he has hate for it) and is trying to destroy everything.

I thought that was kind of cool.

Anyway-I'm really worried for next week..If Ben turns out to be the main character they are talking about killing off...I will be so lost!and so sad:(

Can we all get off Daniel's case now? Life happens and sometimes you miss an episode of Lost (I cringe at this thought). I still Daniel's commentary witty, insightful and hilarious. I'll keep reading your commentary, Daniel...even if I have to wait several days to get it. It's worth the wait!

the way the writers are explaining the occurences on the show are getting pretty hackneyed.... i know this is probably the most complex show in the history of tv, and i know i'll stick with it until the end, but the term jump the shark is starting to creep into my mind....

@ Tootsie | April 2, 2009 03:58 PM

I really like this idea. It makes a lot more sense because it did seem like he acted out of anger more than anything. Probably why he was so jealous of Locke. Ben was bitter at the island and Locke had a love and curiosity for it.

@ flashest monk | April 2, 2009 03:01 PM
We need you around to keep that from happening. I usually try to ignore the bullies, but it was getting a little ridiculous. It may not have been the best way to go about it, but I was fed up with the tone of a certain person.

I am with all the rest of you who have posted this general theory - Maybe Lil Ben's experience in the temple - and anyone else who becomes and Other - is like what happens to people in "Invasion Of The Body Snatchers". They are taken over by some entity and are left an empty "soulless" husk w/o normal human emotions, compassion, caring, empathy, sense of societal right and wrong, etc. Only the Others' agenda (whatever that is) is the driving, unifying force for them. Lil Ben is "imprinted" in the temple.

I also agree with those of you who believe that when Richard said Ben wouldn't remember what happened when he was shot, or whatever, he meant specifically the events leading right up to it happening and being taken to the Others and what the Others did to "heal" him. Other than that, his memory would be intact. Not his whole life memory being wiped out.

Regarding Cassidy's attitude - I think she portrayed a woman who is jaded and bitter about her ex, who abandoned her and their child. An appropriate level of bitterness for her situation.

jb, I had to skip down while reading all 10 zillion posts to tell you I agree. I thought Sawyer said he was doing this (helping Ben) for HER meaning his daughter.
They were talking about Clementine and that's who I thought he was doing it for. NOT JULIETTE!

And another thing - like a lot of you, I'm starting to get a funny feeling about Juliet in all this. She has always been an Other. She decided to stay on in the DI with Sawyer/LaFleur. Did she do this all along in order to build up the necessary level of influence with him to convince him to take injured Lil Ben to the Others? I think, like has been stated on this site many times, that she is not so much a pawn but more of a secretive pro-acter, like a"mole" for the Others.

@owchie - I agree with you about Cassidy's attitude being appropriate for a jaded woman bitter about her ex facing another love of her ex -- kinship with Kate, but also bitterness at the same time.

@suzie - I re-watched the ep this evening and I have to say I disagree with that. You may be right... of course. But it really seemed to me that Sawyer made it fairly clear he was talking about doing it for Juliet. Interesting thought, though.

I totally agree with all those suspicious of Juliet. I think she is definitely not to be trusted. Something is up with her.

We were so happy and chatty this morning. What happened?

Facebook: I had a MySpace for awhile, but it always felt like a meat market... and dirty. I don't know why. I didn't really like it. I now have a Facebook page, and it seems more "grown up". I can't explain it. Maybe it's the ad content or something, but I am definitely more at home there. (Although the magic friend finder thing is way creepy. It keeps finding people I know, but not because I had their email address or anything.Must be magic. And no, I don't want a technical explanation) Anyway, it's not all uptight, but it does seem cleaner and more professional. I know several people who use it for their businesses.
Also, although I enjoy belonging to the FB Lost group, I don't see myself switching over completely unless Daniel and this blog did. This has become an extension of Lost to me, and I am not big on change.

Cassidy: Yes, she totally was a woman scorned, but far enough removed from events to not be a complete lunatic. She was just too convenient or something. Like, totally willing to accept all the crazy. And to know he's not her son, even with clues, was a little strange. I don't interact with many scorned women, though, so what do I know?

Now, I think the cranky folks should be ignored. If someone acts like an idiot, ignore them. Maybe they'll get bored and go pick on a Brangelina group.

Michelle and Suzie - Sawyer kind of emphasized to Kate he was doing it for Juliet, as opposed to say, just to help Kate. Like he wanted to make sure Kate got it that he wasn't falling all over himself to come running to help out Kate in her mission, but to do it because Juliet asked him to. I think he really wants to impress on Kate that he is not at her beck and call - whatever that is - and I like it. But we'll see how long that lasts.

am I the only one who thinks Ben comes out as like a "zombie" or something? Like the living dead? that't why the island can't kill you cause you are already dead?

Some kind of Egyptian reincarnate kinda thing? Lost innocence, don't remember, zombie.

sorry owchie, I refreshed, and you had the same idea!

and everybody asking how Miles knew about Ben turning the wheel:

The freighter people knew all kinds of info when they landed on the island.(Like about the purge.)

And Miles talks to dead people. So he might know more stuff than we realize.

ALSO, I soooo agree with any of you who are starting to think Juliette is really working for the dark side. I have not trusted her all along.

*(maybe she's really a zombue too!)

Zombue???? I meant zombie! haha

So what happens next? Will Kate go back to Dharmaville?
Since Sawyer kind of blew her off and she doesn't like the new Jack, unless she's sweet on Ben's dad now,(eeeewwwww!)shouldn't she go look for Claire?

(does anybody think Kate going looking for Claire is like OJ Simpson going looking for his wife's killer?)

And will Sawyer be fired now? With all of those cameras every where, there's no way nobody knew him and Kate went over the fence.

SOMEBODY is in trouble for letting Sayid out.
Maybe Kate will hook up with Sayid now!

OK, I watched LOST untangled, it says Sawyer is helping Kate for JULIETTE. SO, once again, I guess I was wrong.

@owchie - re: doing it for her meaning Juliet - exactly... that's what I said, although apparently not too well. LOL

I musta missed something...where is Faraday? Why is Miles being all Faraday with his 'splainin' all about time travel...wasn't he just as confused as the rest at one time?

I keep wondering why Miles stayed on the island. Juliet stayed for Sawyer (supposedly--I also wonder), Jin stayed for Sun. But Miles--why not leave on the sub? He wasn't like Charlotte and Daniel who had personal reasons to go.
('Course I think he's the perfect foil for Hurley so I'm glad he stayed)

Cassidy creeps me out. She's up to something and I believe plays a sinister role here.

yea Michelle, you said it before. I just didn't hear it the same way.
But, you were right!

Okay, so I give this ep an A- too. Biggest event of the night for me was Richard stating that if he saved Ben he becomes "one of us". So does that now mean that Ben is an other?

Carole,
well, why did Miles come to the island in the first place?

I assume he had some mission.
He hasn't really talked to any important dead people yet. has he?

They made a big deal telling us that is his talent. So maybe he is waiting for some dead person to tell him his mission.

He doesn't seem in any big hurry to change anything.

and Cassidy is for sure creepy!
She just played Kate like a fiddle. "Sawyer jumped cause he couldn't stay with you either."

I think she got the exact reaction she wanted out of Kate.

Kate didn't go back to look for Claire. She went to see if Cassidy was right about Sawyer.

Cassidy knew Kate's weakness, and how to exploit it. JUST LIKE BEN DOES.

I_Heart_Sayid, do you think Kate will hook up with Sayid next?

Suzie
: good idea on Kate going back, Cassidy definately had an agenda

@suzie - OOOH... love that theory. Cassidy played Kate like a fiddle. Indeed! She learned a lot from her time with Sawyer, didn't she? Before I thought she merely learned perception, as in knowing when Kate was lying and when she wasn't. But... I didn't think of her manipulating Kate on purpose. Hmmm... very interesting possibility! She is a bit creepy, but I can't tell if that's situational or intentional on the writers' part.

how does Claire's mom just show up everywhere with a new grandson?
"Oh, he's Claire's, no she didn't die in the plane crash. Oh some woman I just met told me. And then she gave me this kid. No I am not questioning any of the story. I am sure I will be able to just enroll him in school and everything will be fine."

right. She'll be in Santa Rosa Mental hospital and Aaron will be in foster care.

@ Is It Wednesday Yet? : Sun can't be Chang's baby because she's Korean (she REALLY IS) and Chang is Chinese (I REALLY THINK HE IS) and though both are yellow, not the same tint.

I should know. I run same shade.

Otherwise, good suggestion.

Bree, and didn't Chang have a boy?

"Keep him quiet! I only have one chance at this!"

oh, and what tint would Miles be?

@Suzie: LOL! I love this blog (I try to skip all the ugly comments from the haters)! You guys are great - and totally witty.

I think the chance of Miles being Chang's child is closer on the color palette than Jin or Sun. :)

thanks Bree, after I wrote that I wondered if maybe it was a little tacky or something.

thanks for answering! :D

Where did Sayid go? Is he an other now?

And why isn't Jin asking everyone where Sun is?

And how pissed is Jin gonna be when he finds out Sun left her kid on the mainland?

And if there is a submarine, why didn't Jin leave on it 3 years ago?
Seriously, why would he have stayed on the island?

THANK YOU to whoever posted above that Ben's dad is uncle Rico. It has been driving me crazy, I have not been able to figure out where I recognize him from. haahaa awesome.

P.S. I really enjoy Kate episodes. I'm surprised at how many of you don't like her. She has always been my favorite. In fact if I could be any Lost character I would totally be Kate.

Also was the look on Juliet's face extra creepy when she was telling Kate to take Ben to the others? I got chill. I still have not accepted her yet as a non-other. How could I when she is always making creepy faces and doing weird things with her lips.

Also was the look on Juliet's face extra creepy when she was telling Kate to take Ben to the others? I got chills. I still have not accepted her yet as a non-other. How could I when she is always making creepy faces and doing weird things with her lips.

yea, Sarah Nicky, I have to agree with you in a way. She gets right in there and does stuff instead of just sitting around.
She lives by her own rules.
And she's had some fun times in the bear cages!
Also in the doctor's bed, but the bear cages looked REALLY fun!

lol about the weird thing with Juliette's lips!

maybe little Ben will come out of smokies lair with botox face and silicone filled lips!

and eyeliner!!!

maybe someone like Kate or Juliette will end up being Charlotte's mom?

well, we'd need red hair. Sawyer kind of has red hair, and he's been with both of them.

Charlotte was really smart, and so is Juliette. (she's a doctor and all.)

Horace has kind of red hair. Charlotte could be Ethan's sister. Amy's got the curls, and is kind of bitchy like Charlotte.

I think Kate and Jack would make dark hair. But, good chance Kate could be pregnant.

I hope Juliette isn't pregnant, cause I think she is getting ready to do some really evil stuff.

Seems like Hurley could hook up with some "other" girl. Poor guy never scores!

oh, I know, Kate and Roger Linus could be Charlotte's parents!

She would be Ben's half sister.

No wonder she was such a strange girl!

Long time reader - First time poster. Got a theory that is messing with my head. Don't know if its been discussed before.

Kate really started to freak out when she lost Aaron in the store. The woman who had him looked WAY too much like Claire for coincidence. No one knows what Claire has been up to for the past three years. What if that woman was Claire - sent from the island, or Ben, or whatever, to get into Kate's head and make her decide to go back?

Thoughts?

Looooong Time Reader,First Post. I've always enjoyed reading Daniel's Diary for things/ideas I missed. For quite some time it has been nothing but a place for a 'select group' to socialize and badger 'outsiders' from their posts?? Daniel not posting is disappoionting but not tragic. We all do have a life, right? But I don't like coming here anymore b/c you have to scroll through all the 'expert' rantings and interaction of people who just need to have a night out with eachother like most of us do with our friends instead of manipulating a site that is supposed to be about LOST. I have been happy to see some go, even though their friends try to bring them back. Why??? Please posters with ideas/theories don't get consumed with the nonsense!! Hopefully the 'lost/life experts' will host a site of thier own(I remember one posted they don't read the blog just like posting??)Daniel, you & the real lovers of lost make this site!(late or not) Some(those that think this is a social network amongst eachother) are ruining it!! BTW glee, right on debate & have fun with ideas; Mr. Factual(haven't read all of your posts)you seem like you are contributing ideas but are getting sidetracked by the afterschool playdate with some-ignore them and discuss with real LOST lovers. =]

@justme - I had that same thought. That woman's resemblance to Claire may have been what caused Kate to decide to go back.

The woman had a weird reaction though. She looked like she was headed out the door, not to the service desk to make an announcement. And when Kate caught up to her, her reaction wasn't one of "happy to reunite", it was more like "caught red-handed/excuse, excuse, excuse".

She also swooped in pretty quick to take him too. It's almost like she may have been watching Kate and waiting for her to turn away.

My question is, how come Aaron didn't protest or shout for Kate when the woman walked off with him?

I'm confused. Since when was Ben a janitor for Dharma? I know his dad was, but I dont' recall him taking over the position.. anyone?

Right on LOVE LOST !!

@Chris

Those were my thoughts also. The woman in the store certainly looked like she had been "caught" doing something. Not sure what it is, but something is up with her.

jenn3 @ 12:57 - thanks for posting that convo again. i've seen it a few times, but after this week's episode, something else clicked for me.

Did Ellie and Charles order the purge? And the island disagreed with their actions and made Ben the, uh, Supreme Ruler?

Cam @ 1pm - re: Lost calendar - what about Ecko!?

Thanks LOVE LOST!!, my train got derailed a bit yesterday by the clique. I guess they would rather attack me then my ideas. I welcome your post and thoughts and thank you for seeing what I and others have seen here. Refocused and ready, thanks again for the support.

@Michele 2:57, I like your post here on Juliet, the look on her face the moment she figured out how little Ben became Evil Ben. Sure does make me question exactly how much Juliet really knows about the Others and Richard.

@Bree: I agree that Sun or Jin are not Chang's baby. His first name "Pierre" suggests he could be from Cambodia or Vietnam or any other ex Indochina country but not Korea(the actor who plays Chang is from Cambodia and I guess they would have chosen a Korean actor if he was supposed to be Jin's or Sun's father, at least to respect a certain asian ethnies coherence).

I also thought about something else although I don't really believe in this theory. What if the losties can actually change the future and Ben wasn't initially supposed to be injured and brought to hot Richard, and just became an other because of his hate for his father. Maybe Ben being cured by something in the temple (Jacob, aka a lost-in-time Jack?) is a new event of the past and is going to affect what Ben is when he wakes up in front of Locke in the present. I didn't see the previews of the next episode so maybe this theory can already be questionned.

@ SamIAm | April 3, 2009 04:58 AM

Oh man, I feel like there are too many men to get them in one 12 month calendar... I have seen some above but let me try this again:

January - Desmond
February - Jack
March - Sawyer
April - Jin
May - Sayid
June - Daniel
July - Richard
August - Ecko
September - Keamy
October - Ben
November - Hurley
December - Christian (Father Christmas)

I have red hair but parents did not . my grand mother did though.

@ SamIAm | April 3, 2009 04:56 AM

I have been thinking about that for a couple of weeks now too. Did Ben have to kill his father to prove he could be the next leader? Like Ben told Locke he had to kill his father? But then again, I don't know if that fits because Richard is the one that gave Locke the idea and information to have Sawyer kill Locke's dad a/k/a the real Sawyer.

Regardless, I don't think that Ben became the leader of the Others until the Purge,although, can we believe anything he says? More and more I am thinking that Ben doesn't really lie, he presents the information in a way that misdirects you and makes you think he said one thing, but he really didn't.

kinda like when Ben told Jack that Locke didn't come to see him. Then at the lamp post he mentioned talking to Locke and Jack said, I thought you said he didn't visit you. To which Ben replied, he didn't, I went to see him.

Okay, that may have been a lot of nonsense. My apologies. My point is I think we can trust what Ben says, but we have to listen better to how he says it.

Hope we can all get along today :) At least its Friday.

Ben did not have know sayid at the time of Ben's torture. This is because the writers never intended to keep Ben's character on more than a few episodes.
http://nymag.com/arts/tv/features/53324/

woops. Ben COULD NOT have known Sayid at the time of Ben's torture. This is because the writers never intended to keep Ben's character on more than a few episodes.
http://nymag.com/arts/tv/features/53324/

@ Caroline -
Thanks for the link. I don't disagree that at the time he wouldn't have known Sayid b/c he wasn't supposed to last, but since they have turned his character into such a staple of the show, I don't think its definitive that he wouldn't have known/recognized him at the time of Sayid's torture. I don't really know if I have an opinion one way or the other, just playing devil's advocate:)

Oh and Ben watched Deadwood too! yea!

@ Jenn3 | April 3, 2009 05:45 AM

I agree with you. It seems that Ben is tricky with his words. But, he does lie A LOT. I mean, he pretended to be Henry Gale. The man is not to be trusted.

@ CAM, but is lying the same thing as going undercover? Its not like he could walk in and say Hi. I'm Ben Linus. I'm the leader of the Others.

@ Caroline Bingley | April 3, 2009 05:56 AM

I think that Richard's line about "He will not remember any of this" was the writers "walking up the wall"

@Jenn3: Well, going undercover is lying.

Speaking in terms of what you said before, Ben may have instead of coming up with a whole other person, said his real name but omitted that he was the leader of the others.. said he came on a sub but omitted the part about dharma... you know what I mean?

I agree that he tends to bend the truth and omit important things, but I still think he just outright lies sometimes.

@ CAM - true. Point taken. It just dawned on me though that he doesn't necessarily lie anymore than Kate or Sawyer. For a while I thought that everything out of his mouth was pretty much a lie, but my opinion has changed now.

everyone lies when they feel it's necessary.

I used to tell my mom it wasn't lying. I just wasn't volunteering the truth. she said it was lying. i chose to disagree

@Jenn3

I agree, Ben is definitely NOT the only liar on the show - just like he isn't the only killer... back to the convo about good v. evil on this show. haha - we come full circle.

Reading thru the posts from this morning, great ideas on Kate's motives. I took for face value that Kate had done the noble thing and gone back to look for Claire. Its interesting to get a woman's perspective on what might be going underneath the surface between Cassidy and Aunt Claire and what the real motivations might be for both. Women experience a much richer emotional layering than men. Thanks, that was great.

someone was asking for next scenes info. i didn't see it posted tho there was a lot to read.

The narrator starts: (my fav part)

From the moment he came into their lives (shot of Ben)

Ben says "i broke the rules"

Narrator: Every survivor has prayed this time would come.
Ben" I came back to the island to be judged"

Not another word

Narrator - for the most dangerous man on the island

Ben - be grateful you're still alive

narrator - judgement day is here

ben - what is about to come out of that jungle is something I cannot control ( we must assume it is smokey)

so smokey is a judging device? a god? a genie?

I meant Aunt Kate not Claire, need coffee.

Kate in the red scrunchie reminded me of the RED Heather in the movie Heathers for some reason. random thought

LOVE LOST!! : I am so sorry if I led to the manipulation of YOUR site. I resign as Supreme Leader, return my theme music, and am out.
To those of you that made this fun for awhile: THANK YOU.
To everyone: Happy Losting.
Bye.

Does anyone think that when Ben whispered "help me" to Jin when he rolled him over could have been the
jacob voice that said 'help me" to locke? maybe it was ben's past whispering to locke?

probably not since jacob is different than ben. it just flashed to me when i was rewatching that is sounded similiar

@ flashest monk | April 3, 2009 06:21 AM

It's true: we are complex creatures and sometimes it takes a woman to see the underlying parts of a conversation. I think Kate trusted Cassidy a little too much with the truth.

I would love to see the Dharma Initiative aptitude test. It would be a fun trivia to see what your place on the DI scale was...

@Victoria- if Kate commits suicide and Juliet starts wearing the red scrunchie as a symbol that she is the new alpha female, then you are on to somethin'

interesting that at the pylons sawyer goes from calling kate "kate" back to freckles...when he tells her he is doing it for Juliet - Mixed message?

@Victoria - you are on it this morning, lol!

I think that Sawyer is trying not to use his old nicknames around the DI so as not to give any indication that he knows these guys. Like when he pretended to forget Kate's name in front of Horace.

*victoria- I thought that was a little bit passive aggressive. Calls her freckles which is the pet name for her, but then says "her" instead of Juliet because he knows just the mention of Juliet's name off of his lips will sting?

hmm good point about being stealth with the nicknames. but he does seem conflicted though he will stay with juliet i think.
i still think taking aaron to claire's mom was a mistake. they aren't going to stop looking for him. it seems like the 1st place i would look

@victoria- conflicted for sure, you could see that look in his eyes when he first saw Kate when they jumped out of the blue VW. How about he is in denial? His little suburban lifestyle (good job, faithful wife, homecooked meals, coffee from mugs) is crumbling right before his eyes. If anyone should be looking at his hands (Back to the Future style) and wondering if he is disintegrating, its him, because LeFleur is going to slowly morph back to Sawyer again.

what if the red scrunchie is an extension of the red shirt syndrome? And does anyone wear scrunchies anymore? no offense meant if you do. :)

So, I looked for the DI aptitude test and they used to have it online but the links are no longer available, if you want to read about it, here's the link...

http://www.squidoo.com/join
thedharmainitiative

I wonder...If Kate, Sawyer, and Juliet were to come in contact with present day (2007ish) Ben,(which I'm sure will happen in a future episode), how will they react to him?

so ben's innocence will be lost. i need to check out lostpedia on theories about it. i read some of the posting but it isn't clicking for me so maybe i need it broken down more.
he will always be once of us. but the purge will still happen just in a different way?
i like how richard gave them the choice to take him or not. very interesting.

so ellie and charles are in charge (pun intended)???
still can't figure out if a couple or bro/sis???
richard doesn't answer to either of them.
he is the advisor - but doesn't seem to want to be bothered with all the drama of being the leader. don't blame him there.
i love how he goes up to the temple door and busts in. whadda guy. remember when he joined that show about drug cartels that didn't last. i was worried that he wouldn't be returning. thank goodness that show tanked. richard is the bomb!

I also think that Sawyer is a little conflicted between Juliet and Kate... I think when he told Kate that it would have never worked, he was saying it more to convince himself than her.

Don't you guys think you would feel more satisified, if the reason Kate came back to the island, was to save Aaron. {like if he would of been kidnapped}

I understand what the writers are implying about Kate-that's she has come full circle (she loved someone beside her self for three years and grew up along the way)-Wants to end the lie-and finally stop running.

But to me, for her coming back to "do the right thing"-which is to find Claire..I just don't buy it, feels cheap somehow to me (like one of the writers shot this idea out there and someone said yeh-I guess that would work) It will make her look the hero again.

Know what I mean?

@ CAM I agree I don't think its a love quadrangle. Jack is totally out, the new triangle is Sawyer Juliet and Kate.

@suzie - if Jin left 3 years ago on the sub to go back to Sun, he would of gone back in 1974 and Sun would be but a baby, right? the recruits coming off that sub are from the 70's.

@Jenn- disagree, it is a love quadrangle. LaFleur and Juliet, Sawyer and Kate. I really think Sawyer has partitioned off the two sides of his personlity, the bad boy con man and the respectable suburban man. Catholic men also have that dilemma alot, they spoke to that in the Soprano's mother/saint during the day, whore during the evening. Tony's excuse for having affairs. Just saying its not that uncommon a syndrome.

@ flashest monk - LOL. I stand corrected.

i agree you can't count jack out yet. he is just getting his bearings and will be back in the game soon enough. juliet still has feelings for him that were projected onto sawyer once he was gone.

i agree that jin couldn't leave if there was the possibility of locke coming back to "fix" time. plus all he cared about was her survival and the baby at first. he will get back to sun finding business now that he is conscious again

@CAM - I think of Sawyer and Juliet grew to deeply love each other. Kate's reappearance is like running into an old flame and you remember the feelings/lust you once had but have since moved on. But in the end, he's committed to Juliet.

@tootsie- Two days ago I thought that Kate had totally redeemed herself, now y'all have me running in the other direction. Do you think that Kate could be self deluding, thinking on the surface that she is back to look for Claire to help find Aaron's Mommy, while really coming back for Sawyer?

@ flashest monk | April 3, 2009 07:03 AM

HAHAHA! Well, if we decide to factor Jack into this equation, what would the correct term for that be a hexangle?

i think that kate feels like she owes it to aaron, his grandma to find claire after not coming clean to her. claire said not to bring him back ( i think aaron) but she didn't say anythingabout kate coming back. it's not like she had anything else other than aaron keeping her from going back

sawyer - the one that got away? literally???

sawyer just wants to play house. not sure it matters who it is with. first he wanted to with kate. then juliet.

i believe he is committed to her as well but 2 big ole monkey wrenches have been thrown into the mix

I also know from experience that women can convince themselves they are doing something out of pure intentions, but the reality is, they are doing it for selfish reasons that they won't even admit to themselves.

Is there a couch somewhere around here? I feel like I need therapy.

@T- If you remove Sawyer from his LaFleur personna and put him back in the middle of the dynamics that were there before the O6 left (this could happen again if they leave 1977) is Sawyer still staying with Juliet. If you remove the context they are in, does the relationship last? I think that's what Juliet was getting at when she asked LaFleur if it was all over. Once the context is gone, does their relationship endure???

@Flashest...hmmm....LaFleur did say that he's grown up in the past 3 years. So if you remove the context they are in...I say he works hard to stick with Juliet, but it will be hard. IMO

@ owchie & lost in virginia -- I agree with your Juliet suspicions. Also, it would be (heartbreakingly) ironic for Sawyer, the con man, to be the victim of Juliet's long con -- making him believe she truly loves him and wants a relationship with him, when really she's just an Others spy/mole.

@ Victoria | April 3, 2009 07:12 AM

Those were my thoughts. Last season when Kate and Sawyer were "playing house" in Dharmaville with Locke, Sawyer just wanted to stay and make a life there for the two of them. After she left, he got the life he wanted but with another woman. I also think that he likes the idea of being important to a community instead of an outsider like he was before he came to the island. This is the normal he always wanted and Juliet is the woman who has been a part of this.

I think he still holds a torch for Kate, but they wouldn't have worked in this environment. @flashest monk - I do think that Sawyer and Juliet would crumble out of context.

@CAM- (your comments to Victoria) remember Kate left that "house playing" scenario, saying that wasn't for her. When Kate confronted him last epi, Sawyer said, it would have never worked. I responded to Daniel's poll yesterday saying, if you are bad boy Sawyer, vote Kate, if you are suburban LaFleur, vote Juliet. Juliet doesn't work for Sawyer, Kate doesn't work for LaFleur. Sawyer has been wanting to be LaFleur long before he got to 1977, probably all of his adult life. If you think Kate is conflicted, how do you think Cassidy would react to his DI personna and Juliet, probably boil a rabbit on Juliet's stove.

i think cassidy is resigned to the fact that sawyer really did genuinely care for her and he provides for clementine despite his inability to be there -there meaning so many varied factors: he cannot leave island as of yet -he is in 77. he has not developed/matured to the point to be "there" for anyone except Juliet and for the most part the losties. he put himself into a position that he could help them once locke returned with him. tho his words say he is committed and didn't need saving his behavior states the opposite. having jin keep sweeping the grids seeking any return of locke etc?
if he didn't want them to come back etc he wouldn't look for them or seek a position of power and control to be able to support the situation.

think about juliet...
she puts herself in to a profession where if there is a bad outcome i suppose someone could die if the brakes didn't work or something but she didn't have to face the daily - is this when the next woman and baby perishes on my watch.
now she has had a "win" -ethan was born but she knows what the outcome was there - kidnapped claire - attempted murder on charlie ends up killed.

*victoria- great points about Sawyer, I think he is conflicted because he initially did what you are stating, and then started to settle in to being LaFleur (remember telling Horace he could close his eyes and could picture Kate's face) and booyah, their baaaack. I believe there was an evolution in his personality from Sawyer to LaFleur and he was almost totally there (the con conning himself) when he was snapped back into reality (here three years and never had to put out a fire!)

sorry, I meant to type, could NOT remember Kate's face.

Personally I think Kate will end up with Jack.

IMO: Jack is obviously changing. He is going to become man of faith instead of man of science. Instead of running around trying to fix things he's gong to just let them happen.

I think if there's anything left, it's ending fast for Sawyer & Kate. I get that feeling. Yeah, they care about each other, that's obvious, but A lot has changed in the 3 years they were all apart.

In order for Jin & Sun to reunite, they would have to be in the same time.
I don't think Jim is going to run into a little Sun. Although that would be weird/cool if Sun's parents were in the DI.

Sorry for the jumbled thoughts, I'm multi-tasking!
Happy Friday all!
and everyone, just chill. :)

@CAM
that is what our FB group is for. so we can keep our LOST musings focus on the diary and attempt to pacify the masses.

why didn't kate bring a pic of clementine to show sawyer? you know sun has one of ji yeon for jin.

i still think kate is preggo with baby shephard.
i will be surprised if she isn't and even so
it is 77 babies can be born on the island so maybe if she isn't already preggo so will go on the hunt for a daddy. still jack? can they get past their barriers?
back to miles and hurley. i would love a spinoff mini internet show with just their conversations such as continuing where it went to after they walked out the door to give jack an juliet more privacy

if characters replace other characters in the time line, i think sawyer will be your new ben. "he doesn't ask questions he doesn't already know the answers to" sounds like that fits ben too.

i do like Jack - the island is trying to fix itself comment.

kate did like the island jack - leader, fixer take charge. not so much post island drunken stupor drugged jack. is there hope?

jack is definitely resigned to fate. interesting to see his redirection since locke's death. like ben said in the church - everyone believes eventually or something along those lines.

so will the war wage? how will time be bent again? christian seems to forsee something in sun's journey to jin.

like in somewhere in time with chris reeve and jane seymour where he puts himself into deep meditation and surrounded himself with all items from that era....sun needs to round up stuff and money from 77 and dharma. put herself into the photo via a timewormhole?

help me

SO when Ben says "i broke the rules"

does he mean when he turned the wheel when it was meant to be locke - and in doing so messed things up? or he broke the rules when he kills penny? since widmore didn't kill alex himself. he sent the man who completed the task. are they equal? did keamy have orders to do so? we need to see the 2ndprotocol that daniel spoke of...

he is there to be judged by smokey like eko did...not looking too good for ole bennie. going to be facing a lot of ole faces of people he killed. his daddy roger 1st and foremost. then all the DI purged - what about ana lucia and libby? if not for their DUIs and Ben would they still be alive? in lostworld that is

what will smokie do? the suspense!!!

Kat, I agree that Jack appears to have become a man of faith. Perhaps he has decided that everything he tried to "do" in the past didn't get him anywhere and so his redemption will be to go the "Locke" way.

@ i'm lost - I had forgotten the comment that was made about Sawyer, and while watching, I didn't really understand why it was said since I don't think we've seen much of the all-knowing Sawyer/LeFleur. I do thing the writers are trying to change up the characters into new personas, so that will take some getting used to, particulary with new and improved Kate.

@victoria- I agree with your Miles and Hurley show idea. That may have been there first scene where they traded dialect (I love that it started with "what are you doing Tubby?"). Miles was kind of the comic relief on the island until Hurley and the O6 returned. Now the master becomes the student, grasshopper. I want a redo on my LOST three stooges lineup:

Moe- LaFleur (mean but funny- Son of a Bitch could be his signature line. Never fail to laugh when he says that.

Larry- Miles- got the edge

Hurley- Curley (obvious reasons, their names even rhyme.)

@Katerhiner

I too hope that Sawyer is not the object of Juliet's con. I LOVE Sawyer.

@Mr. Factual

LOL on...Kate is hot, Juliet is hot, why choose sides, just sleep in the middle.

I have an idea in my head and not sure I can put it down in writing, but here goes. Maybe the fact that Jack DID NOT operate on little Ben to save him was the current past and what made Ben evil. Perhaps if Jack had operated and saved little Ben then history would have been changed and Ben would not have gone to the Others and would not be Evil Big Ben.

It was VERY telling to hear Jack make that comment about the island wanting to take care of things itself. He sounded like our good friend John Locke when he said that. I think he is evolving from the man of science into the man of faith.

If any have seen the movie Contact...the same happened to Jodie Foster's character. She was ALL science and to the point where she simply believed God did not exist. But, after her 'space travel' she had no scientific way to describe what had occurred yet to her it was real. John Locke operates much on that wavelength. He may not understand how and why but believes nevertheless. I think Jack is coming over from the dark side and will end up being the quintessential Jedi warrior...:-)

I too believe that Sawyer wants to be part of something bigger. I just saw the end of the episode where he thought they were going to take a vote about him, and he was trying to be nice, killed the pig/had the barbeque. Seemed like he was afraid to be alone. Maybe the island heals your soul as well as physical conditions.

@ sandra - I forgot about the vote...It seems like the He's Our You Episode was also a complete role reversal between Sayid and Sawyer.

Sayid tied Sawyer to tree and tortured him (mildly)
Losties took a vote to keep or kick out Sawyer

Sawyer brings Sayid to Oldham who ties him to a tree
Sawyer puts Sayid in a cell
There is a vote to kill Sayid.

I know it is peaceful right now, but I wanted to speak to...

@ LOVE LOST!! : I know I said I was leaving, but something occurred to me. Why don't you let the HOST of this blog, DANIEL, decide what type of blog this should be. (chatty, strictly Lost, etc.)

ATTN: DANIEL: Maybe you can end the occasional squabble by clarifying what you want from this blog. Should it be a friendly, happy place for people to interact, or would you prefer it to be a strictly Lost place, with serious theories and ideas only? Either way is fine, but you should make the decision. This is YOUR baby. (Now watch LOVE LOST!! be Daniel! ha ha)