The Lost Diary

What just happened

2nd

All, answering from the other postings:

Juliet saying 'it worked.' I think likely she's seen (from the other side) the safe landing of Oceanic - but I doubt she's seen past that. Then again, she may have seen that she and Sawyer meet up - though he's already met Kate - and is already sniffing around her with glee (not the first!).

Burying Juliet's body ensures we'll not see her on island - but maybe off? But by next month, she's back to 'V' - so I cannot think she's integral to the storyline...

Except in whispers - that Miles hears. And maybe a cameo for Hurley.

These two are duals too (said that the other day). There's a chance they'll take sides ...

And in the end, it'll be Jack and Sawyer, waiting on some freighter... heheheh with the Losties living in the Temple - away from it all... with either Richard or Hurley being the emissary to those who tread upon the sacred shores...

It's all progress...

Until the game change/end.

THIRD

I LOVED it! There were so many times that i "knew" what things meant (as i had always been able to do) yet they werent. For example I thought Charlie couldnt be revived (no pens available) because he was already dead before the explosion; but obviously that wasnt true.

My jaw dropped a bunch too. Great episode(s).

Now, is Sayid Jacob the way Locke is the other guy?

What was with Boone's blush? It was very distracting.

It was interesting how the plane time line had changed prior to the aircraft (i.e. Shannon never went back with Boone).

It was also interesting to learn that Jacob and the smoke monster were enemies. Especially when it seems that Ben had harnessed the smoke monster before and the smoke monster listened even though Ben was 2nd in command under Jacob.

Kate sucks . . . it made me uncomfortable the way she was all over Sawyer right after Juliette died.

Izzy - from the other post. Charlie's hair is short because that's how it is on his REAL show FForward.

I wish they could have done that differently...

Parallel Lost Diaries

Flocke = great

Temple scenes = a drag.

Did anyone notice that Hurley was wearing a bright red shirt during the show? Do red shirts still mean the person might be going down? Because Hurley seems to be becoming an important as everything part of the show...

I was a little concerned that the first half of the episode was wrapping up too many things and there would be nothing left to make up the rest of the season, but the Lost writers are clearly smarter than I am.

Did you notice that no one, except possibly Kate and Claire, actually made it away from the airport?

I need some helping in understanding some info: I thought that during Season 1 and Season 2 somewhat, that the kids that the Others had taken were for experiments because they were special. Especially Walt.

What is happening with that? Did we clear that up already or am I just missing something?

I think everything did work. It was never the hatch/energy pocket that made the planes crash on the island, it was Jacob. In the scene between Jacob and not Locke, Not Locke said you brought them here. So it seems jacob was proving to Smoke Locke he could bring people to the island.

Walt was let go with Michael.

@ fanolost "@jenn3 - I believe what temple dude meant was...
If there's not a body for the soul of Jacob (or Juliet) to go in to, then they LOSE that person for good, and I think they need an opposite to MIB."

I was thinking that maybe it was because his name was on the list and people on the list can't die b/c it screws something else. Hadn't thought about needing a body for Jacob. But then again, I'm not sure if I buy that because the Temple Others seemed genuinely shocked to hear that he was dead.

Posted by: fanolost | February 3, 2010 06:48 AM

I think Jacob is trying to prove to not Locke that people will evolve and do the right thing by each other.

It seemed like a conversation between God and the devil in the book of Job. God throws all this shit at people with the faith that they will still believe in Him (do the right thing) with the devil along for the ride and probably throwing in his own fun.

what is "mib"?

The temple "translator" guy told them that if Sayid dies they are all in a lot of trouble. But Sayid did die. And now I think Jacob is in his body, so how would that mean they are in a lot of trouble?

I liked the show and loved the way Locke has seemed to finally arrive to who he really is. Seemed like all last year he was building up to something.. now we know. Very interested to see how the two parallel times will tie in together.

I'm copying from the other blog area - since Daniel has joined in the fracas!

@jaytch - cycle theory... yea.

I'm about to say something that isn't a spoiler - as it's been in coming attractions - however...
**READ at your own risk***

Jack asks Hurley why his name is on something - I am assuming it's the weave thing Jacob was doing.

JACK IS connected to/part of the island from the past (and future) and so he'll get back to it from the new universe. In one scenario, he wanted off island - and that hasn't worked. In the other, he's off and now will work his way back.

@jenn3 - I believe what temple dude meant was...
If there's not a body for the soul of Jacob (or Juliet) to go in to, then they LOSE that person for good, and I think they need an opposite to MIB.

OMG OMG
Two worlds - one where jughead is the incident, the other where the death of Jacob is...

Anyone notice on the plane Hurley is polar opposite to who we know him to be ("I'm the luckiest guy on earth") and Charlie (who didn't want to die when we first knew him).

This has got to mean something.

Sayid is either Jacob or Juliet... (heheheh for Sawyer) - from what I can piece together about souls and all.

That MIB is a creature and not human could mean same for Jacob?

On island: are Jack and James becoming the duality that was Jacob and MIB? James wants Jack to suffer (MIB was suffering at the hands of Jacob).

And I'm not sure Jacob is 'good.' We don't know how he got to be supreme leader - and obviously MIB has issues with him. Likely one has to be nasty in order to control. Kinda like Locke was becoming.

Richard is not dead. And MIB imprisoned him? That will be interesting.

Temple. How cool. Cannot wait to learn more ("English does not flow/taste good on my tongue...' great line).

@LSK - it's only a theory... ha

@Mr. F - I never thought Locke was 'dead' after the fall, so now he'll get 'healed' by Jack - who is connected still to the island - and then Locke will follow Jack back, somehow.

I think in this other universe, they'll all still end up on the not-yet-resurrected island. And the Lamppost will likely resurrect it, or maybe Portland, or maybe MI. That we saw it - sort of intact- signals, to me, that it will rise again, when Jack can bring the folks back.

@amarilloslim - that's right about ROSE. So she's an opposite also.

Maybe these folks need to be opposite in order to be brought into the fold, and back to the island - by Jack - the new Jacob or MIB...

i don't think the plane scene was reality. i think it was a parallel to show that, if the plane hadn't crashed, the cycle of their shitty lives would continue. Charlie would still be a druggie, Claire... no baby, Kate still on the run, etc. i liked seeing the interaction between Locke and Jack though, thinking they could actually be friends. oh, and Shannon wasn't next to Boone because in the first season, they fought and Shannon moved to first class. this whole episode was a history lesson, so someone who had never seen Lost would be sooo out of the loop.

Does anyone else just love it when Ben narrates the recap episodes? His voice is just perfect for it.

@mish - mib is the man in black...jacob's enemy.

@ Fanolost:

I thought Jack asking Hurley why his name was on this referred to that piece of paper that was pulled out of the ankah that Hurley had in the guitar case. The guy broke it and pulled out the paper, then asked them all their names, as if checking off the paper and then believing that Jacob sent them and that if Sayid "died" they were all in a lot of trouble. Which Sayid did die....but now I think Jacob is inside him. :)

YEA DANIEL! B+ is a great grade from you! Glad you will be starting on a positive note!

LOVE the parallel time storyline.

JULIET knows that "it worked", and also that she would not survive on the island.

HURLEY (in RED) was troublesome as well --- never good to be dressed in red.

I have to go back and watch again tonight! It was awesome!

Is it just me or did the conversation between real Locke and Jack at the airport scream HINT. Locke and his whole thing about "not knowing where his dad was....didn't lose him, just his body." and Jack's "nothing is irreversible" really really seemed to hold more meaning.

I mentioned this after last season's finale, but it reminds me of the Gwyneth Paltrow movie "Sliding Doors."

I like the episode much more in hindsight than I did while watching it- two universes is a lot to get used to!

I think that the Losties are travelling on two different equally real paths right now and we will watch both paths throughout the season and something at the end will determine which one is "real".

When Juliet was dying she said "lets get coffee sometime- we can go dutch" and I think she was "transitioning" into her other reality (which is how she knew it worked). In that reality, I bet she just met Sawyer and they were going on a date- and I bet we will see that play out later in the season!

So excited about the show and seeing where it leads!

What was up with the under water island? Did it seem odd to anyone that they introduced new characters (jacobs bodyguards) then kill then off immediately. should be expect the same for the temple leaders

Daniel, so glad you are back. Enjoyed your take and the article you recommended.

I enjoyed the premiere. It certainly left me with a lot of WTF questions.

While I was watching, I could not stop thinking that all their lives (except for the ones that died, but maybe they would have died anyway)had changed in a positive way by being on the island. Jack had purpose once again, Kate was free, Sawyer realized his good guy side, Jin and Sun became closer, Hurley found purpose, Claire became a nurturing mom, Locke could walk and was respected.

I am going to go into this season with a positive attitude and hold out hope that it all ends in a way that blows our minds.

I have to say I enjoyed the episode, but I felt like the temple was a bit of a drag. Every season we meet new people, new places, and I really didn't care much about the temple people.

Sayid is NOT dead and Jacob will NOT inhabit his body.

I agree with other people regarding Juliet. When she mentioned coffee, I think she is referring to the other timeline where she and Sawyer meet and go out on a date.

The scene with Jack and Locke at the airport where Jack told him he would do surgery on him and that noithing is irreversible - that was so touching and overwhelming considering they were always at odds in the past seasons. I hope Locke takes Jack up on his offer!!

Not-Locke was doing some excellent acting last night - I really felt he was evil when he was talkign to Richard at the end!!!

Guys, I have to admit, I am just so LOST when watching this show? (Get it? That was meant to be funny! I crack myself up).
Does anyone else feel like their brain is completely empty when watching this show? I mean, I know I feel like that all the time, but ESPECIALLY on Lost nights. Let me know.
PS- does anyone here also watch Saturday Night Live still? Now THAT's a show I can follow!

So will CLAIRE be back on the island --- or did she really die in the house explosion a couple seasons back? Was she dead when she left AARON behind and she went off with (also dead) CHRISTIAN, her father?

....and DESMOND on the plane! AWESOME! He was not shown in any pre-season pictures/ads, and there was talk he would not be listed on the "main cast", but there he was, brutha !

"The island is not done with you yet, Desmond" - Eloise

Obviously, she is correct!

The emotional weight of Juliet's sacrifice and death was driven in the ground (pun intended) from having to watch it repeatedly tonite. Did get to see her say sonofabitch approx 4 times on network TV in about 10 minutes tonite. Nice.

First time posting. Hello all.
And maybe I'm the last one to notice, but what's up with the heavy water/fire symbolism?
Water=Jacob. Since smokey couldn't touch the guy in the water ring; spring at the temple, etc. Fire=MIB. Jacob burned in fire, temple guys extinguish all fire as first move of selfprotection.
Wonder how important that actually is...

It looks like Sayid is going to be Jacob's vessel, although I thought the Statue shadow people were keeping Lapidus around for that.

@ Fue:

I don't think it was a water ring, I think it was a ring of ashes, much like the ring of ashes we saw around "Jacob's" cabin that we saw Christian in.

@ I-Lander
Ah, thanks for clearing it up. Went a bit fast for me.

OK...so here goes my peices of theory.....The end result is that the Losties are on the island....Blowing up the hatch did make the plane not land, but Fate is Fate, & they will end up on the island some other way now. The scenes that cut to the plane were still flashbacks, and I'm assuming the rest of the season will show that no matter how you try to change the past, you can't escape the destiny of getting to the island.

When they were running around the tunnels under the wall, the whole time I was thinking, "Sleestaks! Watch out for Sleestaks!"

Did anyone else notice that Rose was not called Rose on the plane? I think he called her Viv? Still so cute together.

Yup, it's ash. I should pay more attention. Well then, fire/ash symbolism it is.. or I'm just making shit up again. Who knows. Too much time without Lost doesn't do the brain any good.

@ Fue

i think you have something with the water/fire angle.

When the Stewardess as the lady at the Temple says "they were on the first plane.." does that mean she knew about the Ajira flight 316 as the 2nd plane?

LOL! When did Hurley get so observant and smart? He actually figured out that the guy with the glasses wasn't translating anything to the guy that wouldn't speak English! Way to go HUGO!!!!!!

Pulled the following from The Transmission, another fantastic blog. This reminded me of how the underwater island came to be...interesting!

"The island is underwater? A development that comes about sometime after New Otherton is built? (A development that, sadly, could’ve used a few more days in the CGI rendering farm?) Just like watching a magic show, independent of everything else, I now simply have to see how they explain that. My guess is that it sank when Ben moved the island, a moment that is at the other end of whatever branching we’re now seeing. But I can’t even begin to explain what I actually mean."

Pulled the following from The Transmission, another fantastic blog. This reminded me of how the underwater island came to be...interesting!

"The island is underwater? A development that comes about sometime after New Otherton is built? (A development that, sadly, could’ve used a few more days in the CGI rendering farm?) Just like watching a magic show, independent of everything else, I now simply have to see how they explain that. My guess is that it sank when Ben moved the island, a moment that is at the other end of whatever branching we’re now seeing. But I can’t even begin to explain what I actually mean."

Sorry for the double post!

lovesteamykeamy | February 3, 2010 07:55 AM- Wasn't me. Alright! First episode in and people are already copying!!

@Betheaux. So you think in the midst of the island skipping, one of the "stops" was under water. IF thats true than could that explain how the black rock got to be in the middle of the island when it reappeared.

solid episode....lots to look forward to this season.

I REALLY need more back story on Richard (in chains!). ANd Not Locke is the Smoke Monster!! Also wondering, with Sayid coming back to life and all, why not go dig up Juliet and drop her in the spa? Or any other dead lostie?

It will interesting to see where the parallel universes intersect. Obviously, there are 'mistakes" in the crash-free universe...so there must be corresponding new "mistakes' on the island.

YEA - so glad The Lost Diary is back :-)

Flash Sideways are GREAT !!!

@Sammi- So do you think that maybe the reason the plane didn't crash in the alternate timeline is because Jacob died and NOT because of the bomb? I LOVE IT!!!!!!

@ sajara:

I think the plane didn't crash in the alternate timeline had something to do with Christian's dead body not actually being on the plane. Now, whether or not the reason the body wasn't on the plane is because Jacob "died" is another question. :)

Is the piece of fabric Ben uses to wipe the knife off the same as the one that has tacked to the wall in the destroyed Other village?

cindy is the nameof the flight attendant. remember in the office caesar was looking at a piece of paper as well as the map of the island that had event A, event B, real time, imaginary time, real space, imaginary space...now we are understanding what that meant...

Sayid got shot by Ben's father because Sayid shot young ben! I think Sayid is now Jacob. I cannot wait until the episode where it's about Richard. I think it will help us to better understand this man in black/locke/smoke monster/devil

Interesting! What juliet did changed the future. We are seeing how the future has been changed. However it is NOT done yet because some of the losties are still alive and making decisions that affect the island's future.
They still have more chances to change the future and maybe we will see in real time how every additional action by the losties changes the outcome for the future losties. that would be cool.

@ Betheaux:

Regarding the island being underwater - I saw the same swingset that was on the island when it was Dharmaville, so I think this happened when Juliet hit the bomb.

hi all! i didn't have chance to read all the posts yet, but the most questions i have are to do with the 2007 temple/fake locke timelines. don't know if those are being allowed. good to know LOST is back though!

@ Fue - Welcome! Interesting insight into the fire/water stuff.

Did anyone have any thoughts about the Temple Translator's comment that the water wasn't clear? Do you think it was because Jacob was dead? Also, it seemed to me that the TEmple leader guy's hand wasn't healed when he stuck it in the pool. However, maybe my eyes tricked me it was a long day yesterday and I was tired. I will have to rewatch

@barb in austin - I don't think the temple waters can bring back the dead - they can only heal 'mostly dead...' (shout out to princess bride). So Juliet cannot be brought back to life.

Sayid wasn't dead, he died in the water...

Little Ben wasn't dead when he was brought there.

Can Christian be JACOB? Obviously MIB and Jacob can take on other looks - or inhabit other things - so maybe Jacob took Christian's body?

That could explain why he's not all fuzzy with Jack - and acts like a third party - cuz he is.

I forgot to add that why could Jacob be killed but the man in black/locke/smoke monster not? Jacob's body guards shot him at the bullet bounced off him? Very interesting!!

Also, did anyone else think that Miles seemed to be REALLY disturbed after Sayid died? He must know what is going on with Sayid and if it is still Sayid in there.

have to concur with those seeing Christian themes on the show. The most blatant would be Sayiid's 'baptism' in the pool. A very literal depiction of what is typically a symbolic rite.

I think that even if "it worked," the Non-Crashies made will eventually have to find their way back to the island, because its "their destiny."

I think the reason they would all be in a lot of trouble if Sayid died, is because that would mean that the MIB had succeeded in killing him and would be starting a war against the temple people.

The Temple -a couple questions were answered there.

Where were all the other Others? They were at the Temple which Ben told Rousseau when he had her take her daughter and the boyfriend there. We just hadn't seen those folks in a long long time.

What happened to the 815 kids? There was the stewardess and all the kids taken from the Tail beach. So now we know.

@jenn3 - you're right... I still don't quite know what that means... and who is in Sayid's body...

@victoria - good remembering - that on Hydra we see 'real' and 'imaginary' - and I think the off island stuff isn't real - at least not 'the real real.' Maybe its collective wishes...

@Jenn3- I was thinking somewhere along the same lines with the water not being clear. It looked slightly blood-colored. Could it have been because of Jacob's blood being spilled?

I already can't wait for next week!

@Gregg - THAT is exactly what makes my head hurt...trying to rationalize how that would have worked. Because what else was going on when Ben turned the wheel? The O6 were on the copter and saw the island 'disappear' as we saw a ripple of waves where the island used to be. Would this suggest it sank in that particular timeline? Perhaps. Yet, when those in the water at the time and on the island flashed, they seemed to flash to every time period except the present, when the island "moved". Something caused the new alternate timeline to occur, whether it was the bomb in 1977 or Jacob's death in 2007. The sunken island in the alternate timeline would suggest that Locke and the Losties had something to do with it, even though this timeline shows they never crashed to begin with.

Ow, Ow, OWWWWW!

The plane didn't crash in the other timeline because the island was underwater so there was no island for Desmond to be on and no buttom for him to not push.

Richard did come in on the black rock I think - he was one of the rowers in chains and Jacob must have saved him.

Sayid can't die because he has work left to do. Like Ben he is willing and able to kill if necessary and Jacob might need Sayid as his own loop hole to kill MIB - the free will of Sayid.

I was wrong yesterday in my post I should have said Sawyer was the new MIB because he was at the front of the picture. They have given certain weight to the fact that Sawyer wanted to kill Jack, but maybe it is by changing the relationship between Jacob (good) and MIB (bad) that it finally ends?

ok enough futile theorizing for now - work to do.

Anyone see the Lost Poster #16 that was supposed to have clues to season 6? Some of them have blue eyes, MIB had incredibly blue eyes, maybe this means the ones on the poster with blue eyes will be on MIB's "team" and the others will be on Jacob's "team". Let the game continue!

I love you Lost Diary writer! :)
Great recap.

Hey Daniel - Locke did go on the Walkabout - back in one of the flashbacks it showed Locke at a traveling agents office getting tickets for a Walkabout..."don't tell me what I can't do" attitude.

So with the ring of ashes, I noticed Bram tried to use them to save himself from the smoke monster. I'm assuming here, that since those ashes too were around Jacob's cabin when Locke went in and met Christian and Claire, that Christian (and the entire Shephard family) is on the side of Jacob. So Aaron is perhaps going to be the new ruler/leader- which is why he can't come back, he must be saved from Esau (it's what I call Jacob's nemesis).

I really enjoyed the Biblical/Christian imagery last night. Especially the scene with Sayid being "revived" - in otherwords, based on what he said to Hurley before he passed out (he's tortured a lot of people) - him going in the water is so symbolic of being baptized aka forgiven/cleansed of your previous sins and the way they carried him out with his legs straight and arms stretched out.

Okay, I think I'm rambling now. Sorry. No real theories anymore, I think I'm gonna stick with the Bible theory and ride the show out. But man it's good to have LOST back.

Help - need to find the transcipts showing the dialogue between Ben and Fake-Locke AFTER FLocke/Smoke Monster kills.

in the scene, FLocke is telling ben why Jacob looked confused when ben was stabbing him and i am pretty certain that he said Jacob=John Locke (the "real" ore "good" John Locke)

anyone else catch that? seems important...i hope i didnt make it up! ha

"When Juliet was dying she said "lets get coffee sometime- we can go dutch" and I think she was "transitioning" into her other reality (which is how she knew it worked). In that reality, I bet she just met Sawyer and they were going on a date- and I bet we will see that play out later in the season!"

I totally agree with this, SL! I thought she was skipping and it makes sense that she finally arrived where she was "supposed" to be.

Minor problem with the theory that Sayid is now Jacob:

Not-Locke made a copy of Locke's body, he didn't inhabit the dead one. That's why Not-Locke was able to walk by Dead Locke.

Maybe it works differently for Jacob, but that would be lazy writing, right?

Anyone else notice the Cindy the flight attendant only gave Jack 1 bottle of vodka on the plane instead of 2? He used the 2nd bottle on the island to disinfect his cut, which now he doesn't need.

Happy to be back reading TLD!!!
Everyone's comments keep me thinking and make both easier and more confusing to figure out this amazing show.
1st I completely agree that Not-Locke's acting was awesome! When he said "I want to go home" he looked absolutely sinister.

2nd the interactions of the off island timeline are significant in someway. I Just can't figure out how yet. i.e. the fact that Kate and Clair are in a cab together is important.

3rd I really really hope we get a Richard centric episode in this season. I want back story!

That's all I've got.

Ohhh, the day after headaches are back. Thanks for getting the post up so early a GREAT read and rating. Someone posted last night that maybe Juliet’s it worked line might be in regards to her being pregnant, I didn't get a re-watch but I kind of remember something about her trying.
Sayid was only waked up after and just after Richard was killed. A Sayid/Richard match up could be fun.

I've gone through about 50 theories since last night. I can't commit to any of them. But as ever, I love reading this blog Daniel. <3

Here's a thought about the Juliet and getting coffee comment.... Jin said that they time traveled and that they were present day. Remember when Charlotte died after the time skipping and she was said a bunch of stuff that we assumed was her consciousness being in a different time than her body? What if that was what was going on with Juliet? Not sure if I explained that well or not.

@Gregg -- Excellent reason for why the Black Rock ended up in the middle of the Island on dry land.

Ok, so remember way back in the day when Rouseau's crew was sucked under the Temple and killed by the Black Smoke? And now they're trying to keep the Black Smoke out of the Temple? Does the Smoke Monster exist differently depending on if Jacob or the MiB calls it? Also, the water/fire/ash theory floating around up there is pretty damn good. Help, my nose is bleeding.

Back to the fire vs. water theory...Jacob consumed in fire upon his death...transferred to the pool (could explain the blood-tinged water)...(holy spirit?)...entered Sayid via baptism.

????

@Jenn3
I really did feel sorry for Ben.

I pray he doesn't team up with non-locke because that would be one damn scary team! But for what its worth, I’m pulling for the Ben killing Smokie in the end.

OH yeah, where’s smokies home, off island I presume

@Gregg

Great idea as to how the Black Rock ended up on the island.

@Crystal...Didn't think Locke ended up on the Walkabout because he was denied passage by the tour director due to his predicament.

wow, GREAT episode!!

okay now that i got that out of the way, LSK dont worry about it, i knew as soon as i read it that it wasnt you.

points to ponder.

1) very interesting that sayid shot ben so he was taken to the temple & that turns out to be sayid's fate as well, dharmma dude shot sayid and he was taken to the temple.

2) jacob sucks...all this talk about free will but if he brought everyone to the island (& killed sayid's love) because he knows he's at war with the MIB & he's using them to win that seems pretty selfish (not to mention hypocritical) to me.

3) "It's good to see you out of those chains." the black rock was a slave vessel..coincidence? i think not!

thats it for now, off to read more of your comments and get inspired thinking

@faedemere...Locke looked so evil, evil eyes...terrifying! Terry O'Quinn was just brilliant.

So this is why I took today off! Work is pointless.

Ok so Sayid asked Hurley to pray for his sins, then the baptism and resurrection in the temple. Wasn’t it 3 days before Jesus rose after the crucifixion? Maybe that is why it took awhile for Sayid to “wake up”, so everyone would have to “believe”.

Is it Easter time already?

Apart from all the new questions and answers, my favorite part ov the episode was clearly: "It was Jacob." - "Who?"

So it just popped into my head and I'm stuck.

Obviously we have a lot of ancient writing/symbols.

The temple is mos def symbolic of the Latin American pyramids, the language inside the temple is ancient Egyptian and when Jacob was living in the statue, the piece he was weaving was in Ancient Greek and three of the four lines that we have translated are from the Odyssey.

I know I'm partial to ancient Greek, but what could be the reason for this? And I just realized how Juliet said Latin was the language of the others. Everyone back in the days knew ancient Greek and Latin, like those were the languages. Hmmm, I'm confusing myself.

Just for clarification regarding Richard. He was not killed last night...just got the bejeezus knocked out of him. C & L have gone on record that we will indeed get Richard's back story...of which I CANNOT wait:)

I absolutely cannot add to anything that has already been brought up. Great Lost Diary entry, great discussion!

Oh, except that I think we should call Not-Locke Un-Locke. That's all I got.

Since Locke is "dead" on the island and alive in the flash-sideways, does anyone think that perhaps he will take Jack up on his offer of a consultation, have surgery and die as a result?

So I'm giving the one line of the night to Jacob.

"I died about an hour ago"

hahaha. loved it

oh yeah and WHH!! :)

i dont think juliet changed the future glee, i think this all happened before, victoria made a good point "remember in the office caesar was looking at a piece of paper as well as the map of the island that had event A, event B, real time, imaginary time, real space, imaginary space" who would know that unless its happened before since isnt ceasar in 2007 and the 8515ers are now back in 2004.

@Gregg- My husband mentioned the Black Rock ending up mid-island last night via the resurfacing. I'm still having trouble with it, only because there were several dead crew/slaves on the ship when it was first discovered in the jungle. In the last episode of Season 5, we saw the Black Rock (or what we think was the BR) sailing around the island with Jacob and MiB observing/discussing. The timelines still bug me though. The island would have had of been raised from the bottom of the ocean during the BR time period which would put in the future...I mean the past...I mean the present...ARGH!!!

@ twistie - Ben did have that I got played and really effd up look on his face last night. My poor Ben. i think he felt worse about killing Jacob then he did about killing his father.

I did notice he still had a little teen rebellion in him last night when he wouldn't answer Richard, but I think it was b/c he was ashamed (don't laugh, I think he feels shame sometimes...it just doesn't always last)

if jacob made richard the way he is (doesnt age) then did he make the MIB the smoke monster too? when flocke said its good to see you out of those chains it almost seemed like he was the slave master..probly not but it just seemed weird the way he said it

the non locke is charles whitmore

Richard is the one that tells Ben to kill his father and the Dharma's. Which he does. Jacob supposedly told Ben through Richard to do this. Ben also kills Jacob, because now MIB tells him to. I can't decide who is "good" and who is "evil". Why would Jacob want Ben to kill all those people if he were "good"?

So who all could be considered a "vessel" for another spirit right now? We've got Christian, Locke, Sayid.... anyone else? I don't think Juliet will serve as a "vessel".

Also, Jack on the airplane was just weird. It seemed like he was getting deja-vu or something. Have we seen other instances of that?

When Juliet says "it worked", does that mean that the other people who were skipping (or died from skipping) get sorted out? Like Theresa?

this episode was SICK....

Fantastic Episode.

I wanna think that after the bomb went off and reset everything back in 1977, that affected the decisions made by everyone. Desmond decided to fly back instead of continuing to sail. Charlie decided to swallow the heroin instead of flushing it. Etc Etc. Of course, we didn't see if Claire was still pregnant, in this new "what if".

What do you guys think of: SMOKEY = FLOCKE = GUY ON BEACH = WIDMORE ??

UGH!! I'm gonna go watch it again!!

kruxoli...where are you?

Loved it when Ben came out of the temple after the Smoke monster did his thing and Nocke(Not Locke) said "sorry you had to see that", and Ilana said something and Ben snaps back "And who are you?" without missing a beat,smooth as always. Thanks everyone for being on here, I really enjoy all of your personalities and comments.

Haven't seen this comment yet - anyone notice that the results of the explosion at the Swan, while deadly for Juliette, could not possibly have been from a hydrogen bomb? The place would have been obliterated, not a stack of intertwined metal scrap. I think the island has the power to mitigate the effects of the bomb . . .

My husband mentioned something else about the significance of the ash and it's warding off capabilities against smokie/MiB.

Last season, Ben 'confessed' that he never saw Jacob in the cabin when he 1st took Locke there...yet Locke heard "Help Me", which is leading me to believe that MiB was in the cabin (which had thus been abandoned by Jacob), and said that to Locke. Prophetic, no?

When the Ajira folk arrived at the cabin last season, they burned it to the ground because they discovered the ash circle had been broken, indicating that it was no longer a safe haven.

My hubby is also convinced that Christian was a tool/vessel of MiB as well, in his efforts to get Locke to the point he is now. Like MiB said, "you have no idea what I've been through"...or something like that.

Didn't the hole look much longer when Juliet fell in than just the shell of it left??? To me it seemed to stretch on forver and then just walk down into the hole and she is lying there easy to get to???

Shocked that there have been no comments about Jack asking for a pen to save Charlie. Remember on the beach, where he sends Boone off to find a pen (to get rid of him) while he works on one of the crash victim?

Also, Desmond was on the plane, or was he? Was he jumping through time and space, again, as he did after the Swan hatch blew up?

I think the explosion ripped a hole in the time-space continuum. There are two dimensions now that are tied to each other, the one where the plane doesn't go down and the one where it does. Juliet died in both realities.

So Richard doesn't age, does that mean he can’t die? It just seemed to me that flacke threw him over his shoulder like the boar, don’t mess with me style. How else to make everyone fall in line!

I LOVE HURLEYS new found strength and purpose. Awesome.

On a different note: I have to disagree with Daniel. Yes, I know Lost is all about the final answers to all the mysteries. And if those answer fail ("so it WAS a dream after all"), it will be a huge disappointment. ..So? The years long journey was still hella fun. To me lost is not so much about the final answer itself than about all the fun had trying to figure it out along the way.

Great episode and so many great comments!

One of my biggest WTF's of the night was Christian not being on the plane! Where is he? Is he not able to be in two timelines? Is he on the island? Does this means Jack goes back to get him? I feel that Christian not being on the plane is a huge thing to be uncovered yet.

oh yeah and i watched the pop up version of the incident finally and when translating the rug that jacob was weaving they said the last line said something like, only the dead see the end of war, is that maybe why jacob didnt fight back when ben killed him, he realized that he had to die in order to win/live?

OMG OMG
Two worlds - one where jughead is the incident, the other where the death of Jacob is...

Posted by: fanolost | February 3, 2010 07:24 AM

Actually, I dont believe that to be correct.

The Incident was coinded by Dharma in regards to the electromagnetic energy at the Swan, thus they implemented the button pushing protocol.

In the WHH timeline, the Swan was still built and due to this incident, the button pushing began.

In the LAX timeline, the Incident ended life on the island and somehow caused the island to sink to the ocean floor, or move to the ocean floor. So no videos were made by Chang or Dharma, the Incident was the end for all.

@ Berky:

Juliet did not die as a result of the bomb. She was sucked down that hole when the drill got through the electromagnetic pocket in 1977. That's why everything metal was sucked into it, the chain was wrapped around Juliet. When Sawyer dug her out,I still don't think the bomb went off.

lostnut, flocke was talking about the real locke's last thoughts before ben killed him were that he was confused and didnt know why it was happening..he wasnt talking about jacob

Regarding ash:
It is used to keep something out, or something in.

Duality - no surprise.

The bodyguard used it to keep Smokie 'out' but Smokie had a better maneuver and got the guard to weave out of the circle.

At the cabin: is the ash to keep whomever in, or is it to protect the insider from smokie?

I think when Kate and Sawyer heard Juliet, she was already dead, but her body was inhabited by Jacob's spirit as a host body. That is why "Juliet" asked Sawyer to kiss her, Jacob's spirit needed to enter Sawyer's body temporarily to get transported to the temple to ultimately be put inside Sayid's body.

Question: The stuff the templers spilled on their doorsteps: Was it salt (against demons and stuff) or ash?

Doesn't it seem obvious that Un-Locke's home is the temple, which at some point in the past he was kicked out of? Jacob was the only think powerful enough to keep him out of it. He thinks he killed Jacob, but I do think Jacob will be using Sayid's body as a meat suit. But, can Sayid still be in there, too?

Oh, just had a thought, has Smokie been using/sharing Locke's body since the moment he ran into the smoke monster on the island back in season 1?

I'm still going with parallel universes - but now I'm adding in a third possibility:
First is JACOB dying causes things.
SECOND, jughead goes off, and
THIRD - moving of the donkey wheel is the catalyst and we've been spinning and weaving since then.

Cycles, duality, and now dual timelines (even if one is not real, but a collective wish)

For the moment...

@Janelle...I have chalked up the missing pen to the plane not crashing, possibly giving Kate some sort of opportunity to swipe Jack's pen and use it later in the episode in an attempt to pick her cuff locks. But, I don't remember if Jack ever brushed past Kate...don't think there was an opportunity so I could be way off base.

@Janelle - has Flocke been Flocke since day one? It wouldn't surprise me if Locke died in the crash and MIB inhabited the body and that's why he could walk. And that MIB had to bide his time to get folks on 'his side' and that's why we knew him more as Locke than MIB...

Just thinking out loud

@ Janelle:
I don't think the temple is Un-Locke's home that he was kicked out of. Just at the end of last season, during the "current" timeline, we saw Ben in the temple and being "judged" by the smoke monster. So Smokey was in the temple recently.

Where does the ash come from?

Minor problem with the theory that Sayid is now Jacob:

Not-Locke made a copy of Locke's body, he didn't inhabit the dead one. That's why Not-Locke was able to walk by Dead Locke.

Maybe it works differently for Jacob, but that would be lazy writing, right?

Posted by: Karen | February 3, 2010 09:01 AM

@Karen, I dont believe we have ever seen Jacob be anyone but Jacob. Off island and On island, he was always the same person.

I also dont believe Jacob and MiB/Nemesis are one in the same. I am really starting to believe MiB/Nemesis is a Djinn, who can take human form. He has in the past taken on the form of dead people on the island. Yemi, Ana Lucia, Christian, and now Locke.

It is quite possible Jacob operates under a different set of rules. So maybe he is simply a spirit or lost soul in need of a physical body to inhabit.

@fanolost - I don't believe that Christian is Jacob. I think he's MIB. If you remember when Sun and Lawnmower Man Frank are wandering around New Otherton/Dharmaville and see Christian in the house w/ the old picture of everyone in the past, he tells them to find Locke if Sun wants to see Jin again. Then he leaves, Ben enters, you can see the smoke monster outside swirling around, and then bam, Locke is standing outside the window. I think MIB has been Christian the whole time and also Mr. Ecko's brother.

The exciting part about the flare from the temple is that you see that they're all in the same time period now, which means that Sun and Jim will finally be reunited...at some point.

@ Betheaux:
Kate bumped into Jack when she was coming out of the bathroom and put her hand on his chest. That must be when she took the pen.

Kate fell against Jack when she came out of the airplane bathroom. She pretty obviously palmed the pen then. But it was more of an irony thing ... Boone was all "do you need a pen for a tracheotomy" on the beach, Jack sent him off to get rid of him, he comes back with a handful of pens. So, in the new timeline, he needs a pen at what might have been the exact same time on the beach when he really didn't need a pen.

When Ben was being judged in the temple and saw the visions of Alex, UnLocke was at the top of the hole - allowing for Smokie to make an appearance but allow UnLocke to feign ignorance.

Christian is dead, he can not have 2 time lines, just a thought

@Betheaux Why would Jacob say "help me" to Locke.. was he referring to Locke supposed to help him avoid mib. or was the "help me" meant to be for Locke to kill jacob to set him free from whatever.

I haven't read anything yet, but I just have to say that I am as excited about the return of The Lost Diary as I am about the return of the show itself!!

When we saw the ash circle around the cabin was broken and then Illana and group burned down the cabin, did we ever find out what or who broke the circle of ashes? Do we think that's important since we know the ashes are some sort of protection?

Ben/Smokie/judging incident wasn't at the temple, it was under the four toed statue. Right?

Didn't the hole look much longer when Juliet fell in than just the shell of it left??? To me it seemed to stretch on forver and then just walk down into the hole and she is lying there easy to get to???

Posted by: sandra | February 3, 2010 09:44 AM

@Sandra, that is because the incident moved the Losties forward in time. It was the same hole, but much shorter because it was AFTER Desmond made the Swam hatch implode. They made mention of this, Sawyer was mad cause Jack's trick didnt work (in this timeline), saying they were at the Swan. So that is why the hole was no where near as deep as it was when Juliet got sucked into it.

@Betheaux Why would Jacob say "help me" to Locke.. was he referring to Locke supposed to help him avoid mib. or was the "help me" meant to be for Locke to kill jacob to set him free from whatever.

Posted by: Gregg | February 3, 2010 10:05 AM

@Gregg, it wasnt Jacob, it was MiB pretending to be Jacob. All part of the loop hole plan of his to take over being Locke and get Ben to kill Jacob. It made Ben furious that the spirit spoke to John and never Ben. Talk about a long con, MiB ran one heck of a scheme.

smokie was just under the outside temple wall. the gang walked over the hole that ben fell through to get to it while carrying sayid to the temple

@Sandra - I thought the same thing about the whole, it seemed so easy to get to her and when she was pulled down, it seemed like it went on forever.

Thought or Question, I think Sayid is Sayid, how would he (MIB) need a body when Locke's body is there as well? There is two of them, Locke dead and MIB alive, which is why everyone there is confused. If he took over Locke's body - his dead body would not be there (Correct?) therefore why would Jacob (Juliette) need to take over Sayid's body to come back?

@Victoria: thanks! I just know it was the room with the tapestry, and that is not inside the temple

Not sure where Flashest is at, but he posted in the other thread about Schrodinger’s cat.

I too believe this is what we are seeing, two different timelines based off of what could have happened. One timeline being WHH, while the other being the Variable (LAX). Until we know the true result, both scenarios exact at the same time.

Hats off to Flashest, as this was the same thoughts I had last night while watching. We did not get a definitive answer to what happened at the end of Season 5, we are still being strung along believing both scenarios are possible.

a gift for those of us that had to take aspirin every time we heard Juliet talk!!!

@ the end of last season, we got to see Juliet die!!
the first episode of this season we get to see Juliet die!!!

i like this we should do it every week!!!

@ Mr F. I dont agree with you that MIB was the one saying "help me." when that was said, MIB was even in the picture. it seems to me that having just introduced him last episode, that the writers would go all the way back to that point. I dont know could be wrong

@Gregg, fair enough we all have our opinions and that is mine, only opinion.

But I do believe it was MiB, and I believe he has been around since Season 1 (as Christian/Smokie). We just were never introduced to him, in human form, until Season 5.

Remember, last night they told us MiB = Smokie. Smokie has been around since Season 1, therefore MiB has been around since Season 1. MiB had to make Ben jealous of Locke and begin to hate Jacob in the process.

@Mr. F: I like your idea, that it was one really long con by MIB. He got control of Locke's body/mind at some point, either on the beach when his legs started working or in the clearing when he saw Smokie for the first time. He has been manipulating Locke and Ben, too, since the beginning. This was his con to get around some kind of rule that allowed Jacob to be killed and him back into the temple.

My hubby is also convinced that Christian was a tool/vessel of MiB as well, in his efforts to get Locke to the point he is now. Like MiB said, "you have no idea what I've been through"...or something like that.

Posted by: Betheaux | February 3, 2010 09:41 AM

@Betheaux, tell your husband he is one smart man. :) I also believe that to be true.

@Janelle, thanks and I believe you are dead on with when it happened.. I too believe it began when Locke was scanned by Smokie in the clearing.

Smokie must have the ability to see past/present/future stuff when scanning people. He scanned Locke, and remember he later scanned Eko, who Smokie used to get Locke back on track when he began to doubt his value. (season 2).

Think of who all we saw Smokie scan... Locke, Eko and Ben. All played huge parts in getting Locke to follow the islands wishes and die before returning to the island. Nice catch on the timing of when it began. Kudos!

@ Mr. F the more I think about it the more it makes sense. I dont like it wasnt mib/locke that killed jacob. why was it Ben. last season finale he said he wanted to kill him, and now he's using someone else. Seems cheap. I know locke couldnt kill anybody, but since he died, all of lockes characteristics would have died as well. right?

Mr. F -- excellent point about the "long con", Sawyer could pick up a couple of pointers from the MiB! I am totally comfortable with this theory; my question for you is: are you in the camp that MiB took over Locke's body during the actual plan crash in Season 1? Or that he's only been in human (ish) form since Ajira crashed last season? I think the most important thing that has been brought up is that MiB in NOT in Locke's BODY -- Locke's body is still on the beach. He has not been reanimated. MiB has merely duplicated his form...this being the case, my next question is..how does he have access to all of Locke's memories?

I don't believe we 'know' who was in the cabin - nor 'when' the cabin was.

It could be Richard - at some point - and that's why you couldn't always find the cabin...

Just saying ...

Good catch on Juliet's dying words, and on their significance. I think you nailed that one.

I do think that Locke was allowed to go on the walkabout in the alternate timeline. Lots of goosebump moments, like Charlie saying he was supposed to die.

I don't like the Hippie Others at all.

What's the story with Smokey/Flocke? If Smokey is MIB/Flocke, then why did he *try* Ben? I thought the idea was that Smokey killed bad people, and let the good survive.

As to who MIB really is -- I've been saying for years that the person in the house was the anti-Jacob, manifested by Christian when he said to move the island. MIB, Christian, Flocke, if not the same person, at least on the same team. Claire too, I presume. Is MIB Esau? Is that why he said that he'd already eaten when Jacob offered him food? (Esau sold his birthright to Jacob in return for food.)

Did anyone notice that when Jack handed his business card to Locke at the airport, his work address (I guess the hospital) said it was on Widmore drive? I think that is what I saw, but now I am questioning myself because nobody commented on it. Maybe it is not relevant or maybe I misread. Thoughts?

Hate to bring in production folks, but the PTB said they asked Terry O'Quinn to act John Locke a bit differently just in the last couple of episodes of Season 5. I don't think MiB inhabited John Locke until his dead body was back to the island.

Haven't seen this comment yet - anyone notice that the results of the explosion at the Swan, while deadly for Juliette, could not possibly have been from a hydrogen bomb? The place would have been obliterated, not a stack of intertwined metal scrap. I think the island has the power to mitigate the effects of the bomb . . .

Posted by: berky | February 3, 2010 09:39 AM

@Becky, what we were shown was NOT the result of the H-bomb, it was the results of Desmond turning the failsafe key.

The big blown out hole was where the Swan used to be before Des turned the key. The characters made mention of this in the show, that is how they knew Jack's plan failed. Because it put them back in a time after Des blew up the Swan hatch.

I believe the results of the H-bomb going off was the island being underwater, in the alternate timeline. Not sure how that happened yet, but that is what we were shown.

Just read a spoiler that kind of "spoils" most of our theories about the battle between Jacob and MIB....here's a link:

http://spoilerslost.blogspot.com/#axzz0eUuzuv5i

@Mr. F. I never said Jacob said that to Locke, I was implying that MiB said "Help Me".

@AZwildcat, thanks for the comments. I am in the camp that MiB only took over being Locke after flight 316 crashed. That was the final piece of his puzzle.

I went back and watched the previous seasons, specifically to see if MiB took over Locke at the beginning. I had my doubts on that and I now believe it not to be true, my opinion of course.

Season 1 MiB was Smokie, Christian and Yemi. I believe MiB to be able to impersonate dead people. He spent the first few seasons getting Locke in position to become the leader of the Others.

Ok I have seen references to the ash made so sorry if this has been stated but what is the origin of the ash that makes it special?? Any ideas??? BTW loved the show can't wait for more answers. My 15 yr old daughter told me I need to go to LOST Anonymous!!!

mr. f, dont forget smokie scanned juliet when she and kate were escaping dharmaville waaay back in the day.

Sorry @Mr. F...I meant that comment for @Gregg...got the lines confused. Thanks for the save.

Just read a spoiler that kind of "spoils" most of our theories about the battle between Jacob and MIB....here's a link:

http://spoilerslost.blogspot.com/#axzz0eUuzuv5i

Posted by: Anonymous | February 3, 2010 10:35 AM

OMG!!!!!! WHAT??????
Thank you.

Nice thought, Becky.

And I ask again: was it ash too which the templers spilled infront of their doors as protection against MIB? At first glance I thought it was salt.

@Betheaux, I dont see where I implied you ever said that Jacob said "help me". Apologies if you thought that. Looking back, my only comment to you was in regards to your smart hubby implying Christian was a vessel/tool for MiB.

I am with you 100%, I believe it was MiB as well and not Jacob who asked Locke for help.

@Mr. F - if an H-bomb goes off, and can sink an island, then I have a hard time believing all the items ON that island were intact when it cratered into the ocean.

What we were shown was the island under water - with no context of when.

I think the island sunk when the donkey wheel was turned. Because we don't know what happened after the wheel turned. I know what happened on the island - but not TO the island.

The island does not move - I believe it shifts time when it needs to, but it doesn't pick up and move next to Samoa, for example. That's how the Lamppost can somewhat keep a fix on it - not by time, but by coordinate. If this makes sense...

@ Mr. F the more I think about it the more it makes sense. I dont like it wasnt mib/locke that killed jacob. why was it Ben. last season finale he said he wanted to kill him, and now he's using someone else. Seems cheap. I know locke couldnt kill anybody, but since he died, all of lockes characteristics would have died as well. right?

Posted by: Gregg | February 3, 2010 10:30 AM

@Gregg, but that was part of the "rules" between Jacob and MiB. They can NOT kill each other, despite MiB wanting to kill Jacob, he could not.

Which is where the "loophole" came into play, the loophole was MiB had to have someone else kill Jacob. Which is what set in motion his long con of Ben and Locke. Which is why Jacob said to UnLocke/MiB, I see you found your loophole at the end of Season 5.

@Becky - it isn't that this ash is special. Ash is used by people/religions - made out of ash, sometimes brick ash - I would say here it's 'island' ash - to keep something in or out.

So yeah, ash is special, but it's not 'the' ash that is special - it's ash.

If that makes sense.

Think Ash Wednesday too for symbolism.

Anyone else notice that the random teacher (the guy who blew up at the Black Rock way back) seemed to pop up a lot on the plane and in the airport? And I think I saw him in a few preview clips. Any idea why he would be significant?

@fanolost, I agree with you, seems strange the items on the island would remain intact if the H-bomb went off.

I dont have a theory on how the island sank. Not to mention the H-bomb is hard to explain as well. Did it go off? Did it become unstuck in time? Did the electromagnetic energy cancel it out? I have no clue...

In the WHH timeline it did NOT go off. I think we can all agree on that. The Swan gets built, Chang makes videos, Des pushes the button, yadda yadda yadda.

But in the LAX/Variable timeline... I simply dont know. We were led to believe the bomb going off would reset time for the Losties. But as you pointed out, the island was pretty intact at the bottom of the ocean. So I dont know what to believe.

@ Fue
I think it was ash that the temple people spread around. The bags looked similar to those used to fight off the smoke monster after Jacob died.

What do we know about Smokey?

He's been called a 'security system' but for what/who?

Its appearances:

Plane crashes, Smokey checks out the survivors to see who there could help him with his grand evil nasty plan.

Smokey kills the Pilot -- why?

Smokey scans Locke, sees this is a man searching for a cause, and starts off his plan to turn one of Jacob's adherents and get that person (Ben) to kill Jacob.

Smokey scans Eko and sees his past, and future, he bonds with Locke, and smokie later kills him, to get Locke to head towards Camp Otherton ...

Smokie tried to pull Locke down into a cavern on the way back from Black Rock. Why?

What am I missing about Smokie's past actions?

Mr. F - any ideas who made up these rules? I know they abide by them - but really, what's the source?

I can go back and think that the origin is ancient (like ash as protection/warding off evil) - but who set this whole thing in motion?

mr. f, dont forget smokie scanned juliet when she and kate were escaping dharmaville waaay back in the day.

Posted by: buttercup | February 3, 2010 10:40 AM

@buttercup, good catch and you are correct. I would speculate that she did not fit into his master plan, like the other 3.

How can both worlds be in the same time frame right now? See if this makes sense......The plane scenes must take place in 2004 (that's the year they were all on the same plane) and the island scenes are in 2007 (which is present-day to them. In actuality, they are still 3 years apart. The producers would have made the current island scenes go back to when they first crashed for them to be parallel.

I somehow think Becky could be right and the ash could be specific ash, the remains of something important burnt down a long time ago. There has to be a reason why Jacob is associated with ash (and water) and MIB apparently with fire. Maybe it goes back to the origin of the feud or to whatever happened on the island.

@Mr. F - Really sorry about that. I put up my apology about mis-acusing you after I realized my mistake. Gregg had thought I meant Jacob and I was responding to him, but mixed you two up at first. My apologies again!

@bill, well there are many quantum physicists who believe time happens at the same time, past, present and future. That we are limited as human beings by only being able to see time in a linear fashion.

But I still think Flashest is right, Schrodingers Cat, both timelines exist until we know which one is real. As the theory goes, there is a cat in the box. It is either dead or alive, but until we open the box and find out, we do not know which. So until the box is opened up, the cat is BOTH dead and alive at the same time.

@fanolost I was thinking of Ash Wednesday that's why I asked they burn palm leaves and then mix them with oil or holy water. That's what made me think. But I could live with they are just some special island ashes.

when smokie scanned juliet it was light instead of dark like Mr Eko. it was like flash bulbs going off when it scanned her. now we know that the women couldn't reproduce because the hydrogen bomb was giving off radiation and that is why the other's women couldn't keep the pregnancies. but wouldn't richard have known about it and told ben...

Mr. F and FanofLost: I believe the bomb did go off, the energy created was swallowed up by the electromagnetic pocket, and a new timeline was created from 1974(?) on. One timeline where it didn't go off and Swan was built (our timeline) and one were it did and the island sunk to the bottom of the sea (LAX time). But, to use a star-treky term, they also created a rift in space-time, and the two realities are closely related and could fold in on each other.

@Betheaux, no worries, its all good. We both were typing it up at the same time. As soon as I hit submit and checked, I saw your correction... Just a timing issue with the posts showing up. No harm done. :)

@fanolost... I have a theory on the rules, kind of out there. Ready for some wild arse speculation?

MiB is a Djinn or genie. One of Jacob's wishes may have been that MiB can not kill him (Jacob). Yeah I know, Santa Rosa here I come. Other than that, I have no clue on why they would be forced to abide by rules.

i just watched the recap and found Ben's comment at the end to be interesting.

"Most believe what's done is done

you cannot change fate
no matter how hard you try
those who challenge what is destined
will always be met with disappointment

for fate has a way of charting it's own course
but before one surrenders to the hands of destiny
one might consider the power of the human spirit
and the force that lies in one's own free will"

they have always given little clues in those last comments by whoever the narrator is...

No Shannon? Smokey and Locke as one? The whispers return? Sawyer is a feisty con man again? Heck yeah to the season opener!

@Mr. F - um, wow. You finally got it through to me what the Schrodinger thing is - my friend has tried for hours... what you just said is so, um, enlightening...

So me saying the plane stuff is 'collective wishes' is actually just another piece in the still closed box...

I thought smokie scanning was to decide who could be manipulated to assist MIB - and those who would pose a threat to its plan was killed (Eko...).

@ Mr F. I might need a refresher on the "rules" because besides Ben saying that after keemy killed his daughter, when was it said that jacob/mib couldnt kill each other.

@betheaux sorry for the confusion. I meant it as a question/theory out there, I wasnt questioning you per say

@Mr. F - Timing issue...hahahaha! Get it?

@Mr F
i want to hear the theories on the rules and i also have been saying since the beginning that i thought smokie/mib is a genie of some sort so glad to hear some back up on that as well. i'll join ya at santa rosa so no worries

but didnt she though? she supposedly set off the bomb in the alternate timeline which flashed them all back to 2007 so that sayid could be taken to the temple and..wait. that helped jacob not MIB. crap. maybe there are 2 smoke monsters.(btw, i dont think she set the bomb off, i think she was about to so the island flashed them all outta there to prevent that from happening and then it sunk itself in a fit of rage..yeah thats the ticket! okay maybe not but with this show you never know for certain.

Knowing now that UnLocke is really the smoke monster, that whole scene where Ben goes into the temple to be judged by Smokie is actually pretty hilarious. UnLocke says "hold on, i'll go get some rope", moves out of sight, transforms, swoops down into the room, scares the crap out of Ben, tells him to obey everything that Locke says, swoops out, materializes, reappears, and says "what happened?" LOL

@Janelle, I like your description of the bomb and splitting this into two timelines. In the end it sounds like we are on the same page, one timeline it didnt go (WHH) off and one it did (LAX).

Now if we could just figure out how the h-bomb relates to the island being underwater we would be all set.

ben said that widmore broke the rules by keamy killing alex tho it was most likely keamy that took into own hands tho...widmore did leave the island which was supposedly breaking a rule which is why ben exiled him...

MIB did say to jacob - you know how much i want to kill you right now. implying that he couldn't hence needing the loophole ie Ben.

So much went on last night. So much here. Just want to get a few things out there before I keep reading. Glad to see temple and the Others that went there, now we know where they've been hiding the kids!
Jacob now inhabits Sayid; that said, did someone/something inhabited Little Ben to cause him to "lose his innocence"
Miles lied about what Juliet said. I think she was going to tell him she was pregnant
Cant tell if Kate was trying to help Sawyer for his own sake or hers.
NOTLocke was positively sinister at the end....and where is his HOME?!!!
Oh and by the way when I saw New Otherton underwater I immediately thought ATLANTIS!!!!!

they are totally pulling on atlantis imaging with the island underwater. hmm if smokie's home isn't where it is now - right under the temple wall then where would it be? the temple itself?

and who is Jacob talking about right before he died he said "they're coming" - we now know that this is the war that widmore referenced? that is john locke wasn't on the island the wrong side would win. so where does widmore fall in all of it Mr F?

@fanolost, you are welcome on Schrodingers Cat. I thought Charlie (Dominic) did a great job of explaining it on Flash Forward. Right now the box is still closed for us viewers in regards to LOST. So both possibilities are being shown. Again, compliments to Flashest who posted this first this morning.

@Gregg, it would be a lie to say I have a grip on the rules. I am still trying to figure them out myself. Do Ben and Widmore have their own set? Do Jacob and MiB have their own set of rules? During the 1 hour recap lastnight, they made mention of MiB and Jacob having the rule about not killing each other. Maybe that is the only rule, or maybe they have more. Still trying to figure it out myself.

@Victoria, bravo to you if you had the Djinn/genie thought a while back. It seems to be picking up steam... We can discuss more over jello and Connect 4 at Santa Rosa. :)

@Mr. F - I know you're leaning on the genie theory. I suppose that could work - like wishing for 100 more wishes or some such thing.

So you don't think there's a bigger player out there - or players - and this is one big game for them? The ultimate in destiny vs. free will? The recycling [well i know you don't believe that one...] to get it right, eventually?

I'm spinning the proverbial wheel here...

Personally, it's becoming more like how I view mankind. The 'goal' is to be back with that which you come from. Until then, you cycle through - with pieces of the past attaching to the soul - not consciously remembering, but that there is something. That something is what assists you in working through what you must - to bring you ever closer to where you began. During each life, the interference of the free will of others alters the map you originally mapped for this life cycle - and paths become forked. You wander. You may turn around. Which is why it's not easy to achieve the final life. Because how you react to others and to the altering of your path - can change what you need to do now, and the next time around.

Phew. I'm not sure this made sense... but it's how I feel the Losties have been and are. They have been around the island before. They are called back - then they leave. But it's cyclical...

widmore
father of Dan and Penny
exiled for leaving the island and fathering child off island
wants to get back but hasn't figured out way.
financed Faraday's research
financed Dharma Initiative
which side is he on? Jacob's? he was trying to get rid of Ben. Did he know about what was occuring with MIB?

@Glee & buttercup: Totally agree with Richard being slave. But could also be metaphorical in that he is no longer "chained" to Jacob.

If we are exploring the christian themes and they are variations of good/evil or God/Devil, then the devil was cast out of heaven. Perhaps MIB/notLocke wants to go back to heaven.

SOOO happy to be back! good to see ssarah, buttercup, fanolost et al...

@Gregg - No problem at all.

In regards to the Black Rock theory, here's what Lostpedia had to say...

"At some point prior to 1847, Jacob was watching a ship sailing toward the island, which may be the Black Rock. (The Incident, Parts 1 & 2-Enhanced transcript).

* Probably not, since the ship Jacob saw looked like Portuguese or Spanish, from around the 16th, 17th century, long before the Black Rock got to the island."

So, perhaps that ship sailing near "Jacob's beach" was a red herring after all. Does that mean that the island didn't use to be as hard to find...especially if Jacob kept bringing people there.

Great job Daniel! Loved that Desmond was on the plane - totally confused that he was but he's one of my favourites so can't wait to see where it goes.

ok obviously missed 2 more hours of posting. have to remember to refresh...

@Victoria, last post before lunch break ends and I gotta get back to work...

"They're coming" is what Jacob told MiB/Locke, I assumed he meant the 1977 Losties. I am even more certain now with Brahm and crew being so easily killed. Widmore has me confused, I dont what to think about him and what side he may or may not be on.

mib seems to only inhabit forms of bodies that were not buried - when paul was killed (amy's 1st husband who i think was an original inhabitant - hence the ankh she kept and fought with horace over) they had to bury the bodies and perhaps not just because of the truce? christian wasn't buried, yemi, john etc. appeared to kate as her dad as a black horse as well. to hurley as Dave??? but was he dead - don't know.

OK.
Ben and Widmore cannot kill each other. I wonder if Widmore and Eloise cannot do same. Jacob and MIB cannot kill each other.

I bet Jack and James cannot kill each other. First James wants to and then decides no. Past life coming into play?

In each of these, one wants to kill the other...

So what is preventing this? What rule? Whose rule?

Pondering...

Not sure if this was discussed - but did anyone else notice that Rose did not have Bernard's ring on her necklace? Not sure if it is symbolic or if it means anything, thought it was interesting since they made a point of it when they originally crashed and she kept it on because she had faith.

only real reference that we know is when Richard brings Lil' Locke those items to choose from (knife, compass, sand, comic, book of laws etc.)
and when ben references widmore breaking the rules when Alex dies, when Ben exiles Widmore. interesting to know when did eloise leave the island?

Widmore.
Maybe in this game there are those who want to be on island and others who want off? And so you must play the game and get others to assist you in getting what you want?

So Jacob kept MIB on island, and now that he can leave (or is closer to achieving 'going home') - Widmore can come back?

There is still one loose end involving Juliet that has really been bugging me...remember when Juliet was first (?) recruited to work for the others, 3 years before 815 crashed. Ben was obsessed with her, and everyone said that it was because she looked exactly like someone that he had known in the past. When she ended up on the island back in the 70's when Ben was a child, we all assumed that he was remembering her as the doctor that tried to save his life after he got shot. But then he had his memory erased, so how could she possibly have looked familiar to him? What if, after the bomb went off, Juliet "went back" to 1970's Dharma, just as Jack, Kate, etc..."went back" to the plane. We know that Ben eventually returned to Dharma and began working with his father. Perhaps, after getting Ben back, Roger forgave Juliet and invited her out for coffee to thank her for helping his son. I know this explanation for the coffee comment isn't quite as romantic as Juliet somehow meeting Sawyer again, but it would help to explain how Ben recognized her.

I'm not sure if anyone has asked this...but have we really talked about exactly where "home" is for Esau?

@ssarah...Could it be the temple...could the temple be home or be a way home for 'Esau'? The Others seem hell bent on protecting it.

@ardendweller
i don't remember anything about ben's memory being erased. he would have still remembered her and that she was from the future and pursued her through Richard when the time was right?

@fanolost, give me some time to take in your post, I want to reply but dont want to rush in and say something wrong. That was quite a post with some great questions, need some time to digest it and answer back. :)

I love "Lost", but I can't get past the fact that Juliet survived a HYDROGEN BOMB detonation that occurred RIGHT NEXT TO HER!! That was lame! And Kate was blown into a tree? And everyone else survived, too? WTF! That was supposed to be a HYDROGEN bomb, folks. This is going to be a long season for me because I've invested my time in watching every episode up to now and I'll watch the show until the end, but I sure hope it gets better! Right now, I'm feeling a bit ripped off.

the bomb was supposed to offset the energy that was being released due to the incident so it wouldn't be an explosion but merely equalling it out?

Someone I know got me thinking about what Juliet was saying while in Sawyer's (swoon) arms:

When she said having coffee and going Dutch - we don't know who she was talking to. And when Sawyer says "I'm here..." She opens her eyes and says 'Oh, it's you.' Or something to that effect. In my opinion - that other conversation is not to Sawyer but someone else - another time - sort of what Charlotte was going through before she died.

'It worked' could also mean in another timeline, women could get pregnant, they did get off island together...

@Mr. F - I know I got way off there, but the more I think about it, and the cycle - the more it fits for me. Thanks for reading.

@Victoria - I believe Richard said that he wouldn't remember any of this, which is why he doesn't remember Sayid shooting him later in life. He remembers life before being shot though, which could explain why he may have been drawn to Juliet later (because of the resemblance to herself from 1977). Perhaps he had a boyhood crush?

@Betheaux interesting stuff on the black rock. I think the island was easy/easier to find back then, because if you recall the convo between jacob and mib last season they talked about how the same thing will happen thats happened in the past. So leads me to believe that on more than one occasion people lived on the island. even back then

The one thing i'm confused on is Smokey. If he "lived" under the wall outside the temple then why do the temple dwellers seem scared that he might come back? Is there more than one Smokey and they are scared of the "bad" one? Or did that piece of paper say that If these people came to the temple that Smokey had found the right body to do evil with?? I think i need to read up on lostpedia...

@ ashcards The people at the temple might be scared because the smoke monster might have been jacobs protector. Now when Hurley said Jacob was dead, that means something happened to the smoke monster (ie smoke monster has been compromised or turned) Thus the temple is no longer safe now that jacob's dead

@Betheaux - I believe the folks referencing Ben's childhood crush is ANNIE - who we have not heard about in a long while.

Some postulated that Juliet reminded Ben of Annie and that's why he may have been a tad obsessive. But it's not that Juliet was Annie (though who knows... could be).

Gregg--

Thanks for that. I played with the idea of Smokey being Jacob's protector. But i wasnt sold on it. It would make sense of how Ben was able to control it though. But i still dont get why Smokey couldnt have just had someone kill jacob before like he had Ben do?? Why now was he "able" to do that?

Regarding the underwater scene, we know by the swing set it is after 1970 when Darma arrives, but the barnacles on the foot indicate it had been underwater awhile. So could that be the same timeline (#2) where they land in LAX? Then the alternate timeline (#1) would be them still struggling in the island above ground.

Posted by: Anonymous | February 3, 2010 12:04 PM
that was me sorry

Are we limited to only two alternative timelines? Couldn't there be three, five or an infinite number?

I'm now convinced after reading a little on lostpedia that The MIB is good and that Jacob is bad.

@ twistie - or it's after the donkey wheel - and from that we have this dual parallel thing going on...

@ashcards...Don't leave us hanging! LOL

I think that MIB is good because i feel like they were just using him to their bidding. I think now that he's "free" of Jacob he's taking his revenge, so to speak and that's what the others at the temple are afraid of. I think Jacob brought ships and planes to the island so that he could mess with the people and get his kicks in...

I don't think (or just gave up) that either of them is good or bad, wrong or right. Just like neither Jake nor Locke is/was. If that makes any sense.
Can someone help me out, I might be mixing things up: Ben's secret door in the house that led to the tunnel/smokey.. back then, did he drain it?

@Fanolost and Twistie...I had the same thought above...but it just hurts my brain too much to make sense of why the underwater island is showing up in the LAX timeline when it appeared to sink (rather quickly) after Ben pushed the donkey wheel. The wave ripples make it look like the island sank straight down like a rock.

One more thing on that subject. The appearance of the underwater island in the beginning looked eerily undisturbed (New Otherton is for the most part intact), as if it flooded rather than sank. If the bomb had anything to do with it, there would be some sort of explosion, disturbance, anomaly...unless of course that energy WAS negated somehow. It looks like someone shaved the island off it's rocky base of probably unknown origin (most islands came about as a result of volcanic activity, plate shifts, etc.) and plopped onto the seafloor.

Again, I may be overanalyzing, which isn't completely out of the question for me. It is fiction after all. Right? RIGHT?? :-)

@fanolost
maybe that is why Christian / MIB seemed SO upset with Locke for letting Ben move the island. Was the skipping a good thing for Jacob?

Could smokie just be an entity that could be posessed or used by either Jacob or MIB?

from rewatching LA X - things that stick out or that tickled me were Juliet sayins Son of a bitch to the bomb before the flash- been hanging around sawyer there too much.

jack seems to have the dejavu face right away with rose. (so does rose's cancer not get healed in that timeline :( )

kate's hearing was similar to charlie after desmond turned the fail safe key when she was in the tree

i love that kate was the one to hear juliet yelling while sawyer is making a disparaging comment to jack about a plan to save sayid involving a nuke laying around. see kate is good for something and then
hurley yelling out to jacob " i have a gun and i know how to shoot it: because you know that is the 1st rule in gun safety

@ Fue - We only saw Ben pull the drain when he went to be judged by Smokie in Season 5. He supposedly called Smokie when Keamy and his men were attacking. When he pushed the donkey wheel, he preempted it by using the metal objects in the Orchid Station to bust a hole in the wall to reach the wheel. How he knew to do this is still a mystery I believe...

@ Betheaux
Thanks. All the theories are messing with my memory. ;) just thought about the water vs fire some more and remembered that water kept smokie at bay too (duh, of course there's no smoke IN the water).

Random...did anyone else get the urge to scream "It's a bird...it's a plane!" when the bullet bounced off Locke?

I always laugh too everytime I see someone shooting at Smokie...POINTLESS! LOL

@victoria:

i noticed Jack's apparent deja vu as well...and not just with Desmond (who he actually HAD seen before, running in the stadium). Has anyone pointed out yet that the scar on his neck is from when he got grazed by a bullet last season? (remember, during the big shoot-out with Dharma, right before Faraday died?)

@ardendweller...I thought it was Faraday who got grazed on the neck by a bullet, which Jack attended and bandaged.

The blood was notable though, as it was obvious it wasn't from shaving.

@ardendweller, good catch!

Also, the pen, the knife/knives, compass - are all items that stay with the characters... what more?

First, I think the bomb did go off but ALSO that there was a flash because all of the losties woke up at night to a completely different scene and nobody else was around. That is the part that worked. If they flashed to a point where the hole wasn't as big it might be pretty far into the future. Anything touching Juliet flashed with her.

Also remember that in the 2007 universe that Jacob dies in, Jack and the rest had already gone back in time but died because Richard said he SAW them die with his own eyes and he was NOT at the swan when the incident occurred he was briging ellie back to camp!!! Them dying in front of him would be a result of them either failing to kill Ben and dying at Ben's hands with the dharmas, or saving ben and failing to detonate the bomb and dying at the hands of the dharma for being traitors. If Jack saved little Ben they might have died at the hands of ben (instead of being traitors) but if they brought him to the others they would die at the hands of Dharma after failing to detonate the bomb.

In the current scene for island jack & co, Jacob said "I died an hour ago", which could only make sense if the losties flash that far forward into the future but at the swan site not the statue or if they are in an parallel universe that jacob can access. If they did not flash into the future but stayed in the present, there is no way that Richard could have already seen them die in the universe leading to jacob's death. The losties on the plane are the post-bomb losties (island is underwater in 2004 not above ground in 2007 with Jacob dying). So in the Jacob dies scenario in 2007 the bomb had not gone off on the island yet, or conversely in the island underwater scenario Jacob has not died in that manner.

We also know that in the post bomb universe the island losties are still on the island not underwater so either that is different universe than the plane losties or that
something ELSE has to happen to the island for the post bomb plane losties to appear not just the bomb itself. So if the post bomb plane losties are there because of the bomb and that something ELSE that happened then Jacob might still be alive in that scenario and the fact that there is still a story line to follow with them to me suggests that they still have to save the island and Jacob will call them back to save it.

Wow I think that is even more confusing.

@Fanolost...did Charlie have his Driveshaft ring on the plane in the LA X timeline? When Sun found the ring in Aaron's bassinet at the end of season 5 it seemed significant...or maybe it was just for emotional effect.

@Betheaux - better catch! It is Faraday who is grazed in the neck... so what is Jack's wound?

Maybe Jack's neck wound hasn't happened yet we will see it happen at the temple.

I think that all living CAST MEMBERS will ultimately end up the same whether they are in the "ISLAND SCENARIO" or the "RETURNED TO LAX SCENARIO".

Yes....JULIET will meet SAWYER (for coffee....dutch treat") in the LA world.

CLAIRE (who conveniently is in the cab with KATE) will have AARON, and somhow, KATE will end up as his mother.

SAYID will find NADIA in LA, but , again, NADIA will die and SAYID will be alone.

JACK will probably meet KATE for some weird relationship which will end badly.

DESMOND will be with PENNY, and WIDMORE will still be a pain in the ass about it.

ETC., ETC. ETC.

The final outcome will be that eventually they all end up the same in either parallel universe.....

DESTINY IS FULFILLED & YOU CANNOT CHANGE FATE

Elosie knew that; Daniel knew that, etc.

but daniel changed his mind when he determined that people are the variables and said that his mother was wrong...

and i thought eloise said something like - for the first time in a long time i don't know what will happen...

@bb - and MIB has found the loophole - so game on - and game change perhaps?

When looking for the specifics on Richard saying 'I saw them die' (Thanks Glee, the first) I encountered all his off-island adventures - sort of like Jacob.

Discuss.

And no, I still don't know where Richard said that, but it was to a woman...

And Glee - sure he saw them die - I bet they did in one of the universes.

I think Richard skips through universes - and likely has seen lots of things - but not necessarily the same as what we see.

When Jacob said "They are coming", I was thinking more along the lines of angels or valkyries or whatever the Egyptian equivalent is. Why would he use his last breath to say this if it were antone else?
When Notlocke says he wants to go home, I'm thinking Egypt. Where else would it be. Tunisa?
What Egyptian gods have a brotherly rivalry similar to Loki & Thor from Nordic mythology? Anyone?

@Fanolost...Richard said that to Sun after she showed him the Dharma 'Namaste' photo of Kate/Jack/Hurley, etc.

In reference to FLocke's "It's nice to see you out of those chains" to Richard, I read somewhere (can't remember where) that maybe he's referring to Richard being a slave on the Black Rock, OR MAYBE he's talking about Richard's service to Jacob. Meaning, Jacob is dead, so Richard is now freed from serving him, "out of those chains." Just another way to look at that line. Kind of puts the idea in your hand that perhaps Jacob could still be the "bad guy" in this story after all? I don't know. Brain freeze.

I definitely think it's possible that MIB is the
'good' guy and Jacob could be the 'bad' guy.
I recently read an interview where Damon/Carlton said that we should consider that possibility.

oops!! maybe it was Faraday that got hit, not Jack. i'm not sure now...but it was in the same spot that Jack had his cut on the plane

When MIB said to Richard nice to see you out of chains soes it mean from the black rock or from Jacob or both?

@ardendweller...Same spot, different side. Mirror effect. Looked like they both got nicked on the right side of their necks, but Jack was nicked on the left...Farraday on left. *Splitting hairs alert!* LOL

I swear if we hadn't just bum-rushed through all 5 seasons in the last 2 months I wouldn't remember any of this!

CORRECTION: Farraday on the right...sorry!

i give up, lol!

@Betheaux: Charlie did have on his "DS" ring on the plane as I forgot for a minute what the letters stood for. With such an easy show to follow , how could I forget something??:^D

MIB-any ideas on his name? Esau was good. Think they're saving that one for the big reveal?

Aaron maybe?

Quote from Lost producers from the EW article about the flash-sideways angle with the Bizarro Losties: "The archetypes of the characters are the same and that’s the most significant thing."

I read that earlier today & realized that I'm sitting right next to the Psychology section of the Library. I can even see one book with big bold letters "ARCHETYPES" so I had to postpone my studying... Anyway, I found some interesting descriptions in a book called "Man and His Symbols."

1. The Trickster - a figure whose physical appetite dominates his behavior; he has the mentality of an infant. Lacking any purpose beyond the gratification of his primary needs, he is cruel, cynical, and unfeeling. The figure passes from one mischievous exploit to another, but as he does so, a change comes over him. At the end of his rogue's progress he begins to take on the likeness of a grown man. I'm thinking that hits the nail right on the head for Sawyer! From antibiotics hoarder to family man, he has come a long way...

Red horn is said to be an ambiguous person. His superhuman power is shown by his ability to defeat giants by guile or by strength. He has a powerful companion in the form of a thunderbird called "Storms-as-he-walks," whose strength compensates for whatever weakness Red Horn may display. With Red Horn we have reached an archaic world in which the aid of superhuman powers or tutelary gods is needed to ensure man's victory over the evil forces that beset him. Toward the end of the story the hero-god departs leaving Red Horn on earth. The danger to man's happiness and security now comes from man himself. Locke? MIB? Jacob?

I've got to cut this short (in a manner of speaking) because I have a chemistry test in less than an hour... maybe you want to look up "The Twins" and "The Hare."

On another note, I've been watching several of the 2012 shows on the history channel, and the concept of the world ending, final battle of good vs evil, revelations, etc is very Lost. Some ideas that popped into my head:
3 antichrist figures will return. Widmore, Ben, Locke?

5 worlds (from Hopi & Hindu mythology), is the flash-sideways the 5th? 1974, 1977, 2004, 2007, new 2004? Am I missing one? When was Widmore leader? Or "Event a, Event b, real, imaginary, etc"?

ok, I really have to study now! Sorry so long!

here's the link to the article referenced in the beginning, if you didn't check it out earlier today:
link: http://popwatch.ew.com/2010/02/02/lost-premiere-damon-carlton/

@sandra

DS stands for Drive Shaft, the name of Charlie's band

The Ankh in the guitar case must be a reference to Todd Rundtgren's album Ra where he toured with an ankh shaped guitar.

Rose & Bernard -- Originally Rose sat in the forward cabin of the plane and Bernard sat in the tail section. Not so this time around.

So....if "not Locke" is actually being channeled by the MIB, then who the heck channeled the body of Christian Shepherd while he was wandering he island freaking out Jack all those seasons ago...?

I'm really confused with everyone talking about MiB as separate from Smokie. I thought last night cleared that up. MiB IS Smokie. Right?

Thanks for the blog & good to see you back Daniel!

I agree with the MiB conn trick to get someone else (Ben) to kill Jacob and remember a few people mentioned this at the end of season 5.

I think the final reveal of lost will be based on the battle between Jacob & MiB. Jacob is/was trying to make something happen (don't know what, but think whatever it is is the crux of everything) and was bringing people to the island to help with this. Succeeding in this task would result in something major.

MiB didn't want him to succeed and was also bored with his attempts, hence plotting to kill him.

When Jacob say's "they're coming" I think he refers to the people he has brought to the island who will succeed ("It only ends once"), namely the people on the list, Jack, Kate, Sayid etc.

Think this ties in with Jack saying "Why is my name written on that" and also why Sayid dying would be bad (he;s needed for the task) .

However, what they need to do succeed, why, and what will happen when they do I have no idea ...

Just a theory, some days I think it makes perfect sense other times sounds crazy :-)

@jaytch...Yes, MiB is Smokie. I think we're just having a hard time pinpointing exactly what we're going to call him/it. And I believe that Bernard and Rose sat together on the plane, but the plane crashed while Bernard was in the bathroom in the tail section of the plane. You see him come back to his seat after the period passes where the plane would have crashed.

@Patrick - Excellent observation!

Also, a thought for those who think the fdw moved the island under water.

We see the island underwater just before the plane lands...However, ben first turned the fdw much later than this so not sure that could have been the cause.

@ardendweller...Same spot, different side. Mirror effect. Looked like they both got nicked on the right side of their necks, but Jack was nicked on the left...Farraday on left. *Splitting hairs alert!* LOL

"I swear if we hadn't just bum-rushed through all 5 seasons in the last 2 months I wouldn't remember any of this!"

Posted by: Betheaux | February 3, 2010 01:44 PM

This made me remember when Ben got shot. Didn't we all have some issue with Sayid shooting him on one side of his chest but when Jin found Ben the shot was on the other side. Sorry guys, its been a long day and I am tired, so my recall might be a little off, but if I remember correctly we had a mirror image debate about Ben being shot.

@ fanolost - I think it was my last random stray post that you were referring to re: Juliet/Charlotte ramblings being the same. I think Juliet's consciousness was dislodged due to the time travel referenced by Jin.

@amariloSlim...At this point, anything is possible (regarding the underwater island). I still think the donkey wheel sunk the island in the timeline that sent the Losties careening through time. There are holes in the theory, yes, but I'm having a hard time explaining it otherwise. Also, we see it underwater shortly after the plane would have crashed, suggesting it was in the same place as when the plane crashed originally in the first season (suggesting it was sunk and not moved the first time). It seems like they land shortly after that...but remember all that happens in between, including Charlie's drug OD, etc. That eats time up during a flight!

Again, just my opinion. :-)

ashley, they went to the 50's as well & whats with the 3 year gap with both the 70's & 00's?

no one commented on this, but did you notice the shark in the underwater scene had the Dharma logo on it again?

I think the ankh in the guitar case was related to the Tawaret statue that was holding 2 ankhs and ties in with Amy's first husband who had an ankh necklace on I believe. It appears that many Egyptian gods have a connection to the ankh though, so maybe its not necessarily Tawaret or RA

@Buttercup...O6 were off island 3 years (2004-2007)...Juliet/Sawyer, et al. were in the Dharma Initiative 1974-1977, when the O6 returned.

@Janelle...nice catch, probably the same one! ;-)

bethaux: opps duh me! i've processed so much info since last night that i'm a little bit brain fried!

Gonna have to rewatch this tonight, I'm quite sure I missed a few things.

And I hope that they don't show us too many different alternate universes... I'd get a little thrown off after a while.

I'm wondering if Richards "I watched them all die" line from last season was before they did the bomb thing, and they were killed in the Purge.

So it occurred to me that in Season 1 on the plane it was Jack who said to Rose, Don't worry this is normal

but in Season 6 on the plane it is Rose who says this to Jack.

@Janelle - I laughed out loud when I saw the shark - but who can find out if it had a Dharma tag on it?

@jenn3 - HI!!!! So the ankh... I thought it was a calling card so temple folk would know it's cool.

OK, so my friend - who I made watch all 5 seasons in two months is saying shark had a Dharma tag.

@Jenn3 Good point about little Ben's gunshot wound being the other side to actually being shot - this definitely happened. Whether deliberate or an production/camera accident I don't know though :-)

@Betheaux Hmmm...good thinking maybe I am being too literal with the timeline. My own thought is that it's def related to the bomb somehow, crazy thought but maybe the island moved itself to avoid the explosion.

Ha - I'm the UK and it's late so maybe not the best suggestion!

@ sandra & @ Lost in Virginia:

The DS on Charlie's ring actually stands for "Dexter Stratton"....Charlie's grandfather or great-grandfather (I don't remember how far back in the family tree it goes...sorry). Regardless it was a family heirloom and the name of the band did come from those initials, but that's not what the ring actually was referring to.

Do you think that Claire is pregnant with Aaron when Kate jumps into the airport cab? What are the odds that Kate will end up delivering the baby again? Is this the way Kate and Aaron will be reunited again?

OK, so my friend and I are sitting downstairs from the office, in a bar with $3 drafts tonight...

And we're thinking IF, only if, (help Mr. F) this is a cycle and we're watching the changing of the guard:

Kate would be the new Ben - she's opportunistic, wiley, socio-path (not bad, just looking out for her).

Jack is a Jacob or MIB.

Hurley and Miles should be the Richard and 'Samurai' temple guys.

My man Sawyer we haven't quite nailed down - maybe Desmond...

Thoughts?

@ fanolost Richard said "I saw them die" when he saw the picture of the dharma recruits that had jack, hurley and kate in it.

Daniel sounds more cynical with every episode. Even though he gave it a B+ he still sounded annoyed. Such a Kate hater. Lots of new questions are raised but I feel like a lot were answered like what's in the guitar case and finding out the beach guy is the smoke monster. It was soooo good!

@ fanolost I would say

hurley is the new richard

jack is the new jacob

lapidus is the new abbaddon

sayid is the new ben (he has died and come back he has changed and he kills easily)

john is the new christian

sawyer is the new MIB

kate is the new ellie?

OK, here's a thought:

That jughead going off actually is the catalyst for the whole Swan station being built - to contain the electromagnetic property of the island that they unleashed and the h-bomb. So in loop/cycle theory, Chang was trying to compartmentalize these properties.

They tried to tell Chang, but then he went to Radzinsky, the arse-cannon ... which made it worse this time around...

Discuss. We're now getting pizza and another round of $3 drafts.

To sum up: it's round two of WHH - and the only alternate schism might be that Jack remembers other alternates while on the plane - and we've not yet seen other Losties getting dejavu...

But we think it's coming.

BTW: this is all theory because we haven't been given enough as yet.

My Wednesdays will now be one of pizza and drafts and blogging!!!

Ok - Pilot moment - John Locke to Walt (re backgammon) "It's the oldest game in the world... older than Jesus Christ.. two sides.... light vs. dark" "Do you want to know a secret?"

@Glee - interesting... but I like Glee, the first... hee

OMG - did y'all know that on Kimmel they said the LAST EPISODE IS SUNDAY May 23rd - so clear your calendars for the two-hr. ending:

Here are recap items from Kimmel:
ost producers Damon Lindeof and Carleton Cuse appeared on Jimmy Kimmel last night and revealed MAJOR details about the premiere episode.

Jimmy played a game of coincidence or not with the producers and here’s what they said about various sequences on the premiere.

Coincidence or not:

- As soon as we see Charlie, Desmond disappears
Coincidence

- Michael and Walt not being on plane
Fate

- Shannon not on plane
Not a coincidence (significant)

- Premiere on Groundhog’s Day
Coincidence

- Space between LA and X in title of premiere episode “LA X”
Very planned.

- Rose calm, Jack nervous on this final season premiere, but on the first episode Jack was calm and Rose was nervous
Not a coincidence, intentional

- Jack spills his vodka while pouring his drink
One less bottle of vodka, not a coincidence

The producers also revealed that Jack’s body is not possessed by the man in black from last season’s finale and the numbers will be coming back. Jimmy also mentioned his theory that Sayid’s body is possessed by Jacob, but Lindelof and Cuse would not confirm or deny that one.

The major announcement made was that the Lost final episode will air on May 23, 2010.

Suspended Animation is my theory along with some connection to dreaming. Every episode of lost satisfies the fan but leaves out things. I guess at this point we should just take the info as we are given it. Then see where the story goes. I just hope Farraday was really the one who understands it all, it's obvious even Jacob was vulnerable.

In the preview trailers there is a snippit of Claire aiming a gun at someone...so UnClaire. Do you think that Kate hijacking the cab with Claire in tow will turn Madonna Claire into a gun packing mama. Lost's version of Thelma and Louise.

@amarilloSlim

As far as what exactly Jacob is trying to accomplish...I always think back to the first conversation that Jacob had with the MIB...MIB is angry because Jacob keeps bringing people to the island, and they always end up fighting, corrupting, struggling for power and control, etc...maybe Jacob is just trying to prove him wrong. I think Rose/Bernard and Desmond/Penny will end up being a key part of the story, because they have always cared more about each other, and really tried to stay out of everything that is going on. One thing that really stood out to me in the season 5 finale was when Kate, Sawyer, and Juliet ran into Rose and Bernard in the jungle. They told them that the bomb was going to explode, etc...and Rose was like "so what? why do you keep getting yourselves involved in this mess and trying to drag us along? we're retired, leave us alone." they certainly don't fit under the MIB's description of mankind. And Desmond and Penny are similar. Maybe that is the kind of progress that Jacob was hoping to see. Of course, I don't know why this goal would have evolved into all-out war between Jacob and the MIB...

Did anyone notice what book Desmond was reading on the plane?

Ok so I am totally obsessing about this connection between the ankh in the guitar case and the Todd Rundgren Utopia Album RA. I'm thinking there are clues within the lyrics of the song Singring and Glass Guitar. The song mentions elemental forces fire, water, earth, wind and other such things as that. And seeing pictures of Todd Rundgren's ankh shaped guitar has led me to believe there is something to this. And I know the people behind this show put in interesting and sometimes obscure cultural references. Anyway check out the lyrics and see what y'all think!

OK - so we watched the Kimmel segment:

Smoke Monster is Locke - not MIB...

so now, could MIB be the new Sayid?

They also said 'she who shall not be named' they would like back... ppfffttt

Ack. Now my head is exploding. Til the morrow, I'll bring excedrin...

The timing of Desmond showing up on the plane, and sitting beside Jack, and then vanishing into thin air, has me wondering if Desmond is The Constant in the new timeline.

Just like he tried to go back and save Charlie, to change things. Was he trying to save Charlie again, from a heroin od. Was he trying to engage Jack in conversation and help guide him to his destiny.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Haroun_and_the_Sea_of_Stories
desmond is reading this book

It is a childrens book by Salman Rushdie," Haroun And The Sea Stairs " !!! ...thanks victoria.

my personal name for the un-dead Locke, that Daniel is calling not-Locke, is Smokey-Locke.

The Lockeness Monster.

I don't think that Sayid is MIB. I believe that it IS Sayid, just like Ben is still Ben (after Richard took him). However he is now one of them. Ben went from innocent to evil, and Sayid may go from a murderer to being absolved. He was carried ala Christ on the cross.

I think also that they put down the ashes to keep out MIB so he could not assume Sayid's identity if he passed. Remember Sayid asking Hurley where he was going to, what would happen to him, bc he was a murderer.

I think that MIB is able to take on the identity of dead people. Remember Ilana said that Jacob was not in the temple but someone else had been. The ring of ashes had been broken. The way I see it, MIB moved in and inhabited Christian and Claire, then later FLocke (my preference, fake Locke). MIB/Smoke monster took on Alex's form to convince Ben to kill Jacob as he couldn't do it himslef. Ben promised "Alex" that he would do ANYTHING FLocke told him to do. Threfore, nice set up of Ben to obey FLocke to kill Jacob for MIB. Am I making sense?

The "opposites" on the plane were really interesting. Interestingly, though, some of their personalities were PRE-island. Jin was a d**k - button your shirt! Saywer a con man - eyes on rich Hurley and pretty Kate. On the other hand, Jack was nervous (of course he was going to bury dad) and Rose was brave. Frogurt and Arzt were annoying just the same.

That said, WHAT AN EPISODE! I am so excited LOST is back. I finished season 5 finale just 45 minutes before the recap at 8.

Also, did anyone else think that Miles seemed to be REALLY disturbed after Sayid died? He must know what is going on with Sayid and if it is still Sayid in there.

Posted by: the original Glee (that TV show stole my handle) | February 3, 2010 08:42 AM

I think the reason Miles had such a perplexed expression when he was next to "dead" Sayid is that he could tell he wasn't dead because he wasn't sensing anything from him. I, therefore, don't think Sayid is Jacob. I think he will be changed by the experience of being healed much like young Ben must have been changed by it. It will be interesting to see this transformation.

About Sayid. I think they mean if when they put him in the water he will not be the same. The way they did when they took little Ben to the hostiles when he got shot. They took him to the temple and they told Kate and Sawyer if they help him he will lose his innocence and never be the same. So now Sayid will be diffrent.

My fav part of the Lost experience is reading this Diary...I laugh so much I can hardly stand it...love your take on the show, keep it up, you made my day!

@ Jaytch:

Sorry for the delay, but I am back! What an ep! 1st off, I have NOT gotten thru all the posts, so I apologize if I am repeating. THANK GOD JULIET IS DEAD! All we need is Kate to follow suit and we got a good thing going here. Now, on to Jacob and Esau (MIB). They can't kill each other, otherwise they would've done that a lomg time ago. A third party needs to get involved, hence FLocke convincing Ben that Jacob ignored him. Kinda like how Satan tempts Job...Sayid and Ben, in my opinion, are the only people capable of harming Jacob or Esau. Both we physically harmed on the island and both were taken to the temple (now, we don't know what happened to Ben @ the temple but I bet itLs similar to Sayid's experience. Sice Sayid was reborn, he may be the only one capable of harming FLocke.

I watch FRINGE, and I suggest you all do as well. There's A LOT of stuff about alternate universes and stuff. Made the whole Oceanic 815 not crashing thing easier to handle. I promise I will try to post often but my crappy job keeps me occupied most of everyday. Hello to all the regulars!

Check out this LOST recap done to the tune of REM's the End of the World. LOVE IT!
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lgmZ_BSNmEk

Sorry if this is a repeat, but I am wondering about Claire. If the island has sank, and the plane is not crashing, what reason does she have to be on the flight? It didn't clearly show her being pregnant in the cab, so I wonder if she is pregnant in this reality? I'm so curious to see how her storyline works out.

Juliette is in V so I guess she is really dead. My sister and I believe that Sayid is now Jacob just like the other guy is Locke. Your thoughts. The way the island was under water made me think of the lost city of Atlantis.

Mr. F- Thanks for carrying the Schrodinger’s cat banner yesterday!

Mr. F- Thanks for carrying the Schrodinger’s cat banner yesterday!

@Flashest, my pleasure, I think it is dead on.

Watch a wowzer, can't wait for episode 3.

For those who havent had the chance to watch the season opener, i suggest you watch it at:

totaltvmadness.com

Watch a wowzer, can't wait for episode 3.

For those who havent had the chance to watch the season opener, i suggest you watch it at:

totaltvmadness.com

OK. Cuz my posts last night are too long:
On Kimmel - we know Locke is Smoke Monster (not MIB).

Which leaves where/who is MIB still a question.

@Kruxoli - heheheh. Ding Dong Juliet is dead.. and Kate is right behind her... if only...

@ Fanolost:

The way the question was worded about MIB/Locke, I think they answered kind of crafty. The question asked was if MIB was possessing Locke. To which the answer was No....but we all know MIB is not POSSESSING Locke, because Locke's dead body is still there. The MIB is impersonating/cloning Locke. I think if the question were asked like this, it would either not have been answered or the answer would have been yes.

So I was rewatching the episode (still am, just haven't finished it all, I keep falling asleep. I really don't like being so exhausted all the time.) and one thing I did notice was when Kate fought the marshal, she knocked his head in the exact same spot as when the case had fallen from the overhead compartment in Season 1 and knocked him unconsious during the crash. Maybe that's just coincidence, but could this mean that some things are just meant to happen, no matter where they are? Does that mean Locke will walk again, only with the help of Spinal Surgeon Jack? Rose will be healed of cancer? Or is it just coincidence?

Oh, I do think Claire is still pregnant, mostly because if I remember right, that was the reason she was going to LA, to give Aaron up for adoption there.

Someone may have brought this up in a previous post/previous season, but in the Bible Aaron is a descendent of Jacob. I wonder if Aaron will have a lot more to do with the story and the battle between Jacob and the MiB. This could also be why Ben was so insistent that all of the Oceanic 6 return.

@ Fanolost:

Re: Kate and Juliet

If we were only so lucky...

FLocke is not possessing Locke...Locke is dead. FLocke has taken the appearance of Locke, but isn't actually Locke.

@Kruxoli -- good to see you back:)

Now...more quotes from the latest TV Guide Magazine.

***POSSIBLE SPOILER ALERT*** ***POSSIBLE SPOILER ALERT***

O.K. -- don't kill the messenger but next week's episode is Kate-centric and is called "What Kate Does".

There's also an interview with "Claire".

William Keck says, "Word is, she (Claire) may no longer be the sweet caregiver we remember."

Emilie de Ravin says:
*I come back in a unique fashion, so to speak, which creatively has been amazing."
*Her favorite part about being back "has been scenes when we're all together...which doesn't happen a lot."
*"I think Claire should be reunited with Aaron. That would be great. There has been so much theorizing about Aaron [being] the key to everything. I really don't know, but I think there must be something special with him."

Question: We hear one of you Losties may turn out to have an extra-special connection to the island.
Answer: The ongoing question has been, "Why am I there, and what is my purpose?"

@Betheaux -- God knows my memory sucks but I thought in the Pilot episode, Rose & Bernard sat in separate sections of the plane.

On the plane in this episode, did BERNARD call ROSE by the name "VIV" when he came back from the bathroom?

If so, what's up with that??

MiB = Smokie = Flocke

It is not possession, as that would mean MiB's spirit possessed John's body. Which we know is not true since Locke's body was in the box Illana and crew carried to the beach. So I agree with Saffyreblue, the Writers were being sneaky.

Which is why I am now leaning towards the Djinn explanation, Djinn's can take the form of human beings. MiB knows all about Locke's past and emotions from when he scanned him in Season 1 in the clearing.

@ Jaytch In the original pilot episode, BERNARD had gone to the back of the plane to the bathroom, and was there when the plane broke apart.

ROSE had told JACK, "Tell that to my husband when he comes back from the washroom." So they were seated together on the original flight.

@bb -- Thanks:)

@bb- I think Bernard called her "babe" or something like that.

kruxoli! welcome back! Kate next week??!! Maybe in this new version she won't be so pathetic/ easily caught. We can only hope...

I agree that its not possession. As mentioned a lot already, in the cave after notLocke kills everyone, he says "sorry you had to see me like that". At that point we know he is MIB and not "possessing" locke.

Question, why do people assume that if Jacob were manipulative/keeping Richard in "figurative" chains, that he would thus be evil. All "Christ like" figures have kept their followers in some kind of chain or retsraints, just in the way the serve the leader. Also, people who question their faith often ask "if there is a God, why would this (death, etc) happen to me". Just because bad things happen due to "God like" creatures, doesn't make them "evil"> did that make any sense??? In my mind it did! :)

@lostinaz - I agree. I've always said that it would be really disappointing if it's as easy as good/evil, black/white.

Judgment is a human quality - thus I don't subscribe to a G-d being that way. And bad things happen to good people because the simple act of interaction sets us up for disappointment/change. Our free will coupled with another's free will is all about change.

The best we can do is try to stay the course (and correct) when we find ourselves adrift - from our own, or the actions of others.

Free will is a b*%^tch!

I thought of crazy question this morning.

Locke was on the plane returning from his 'Walkabout'. The only reason he was only the Walkabout is because Abaddon told him to go.

Why, with the island under water would Abaddon still have manipulated Locke to 'get where he needs to go'?

Does this make sense?

It's good to be back... @ LostInAZ: A agree, I am not totally convinced that Jacob is "good." I think that there's A LOT of gray area there...too much for us to deduce from the last ep. As things play out, we'll get a better idea of what's to come. I AM PRAYING KATE GOES THE WAY OF JULIET NEXT WEEK, though I am not holding my breath. She'll prolly be there till the end...

Redarding the ash/salt(?) - Could this be the same substance that was used to mark the 'X' that Locke found in the jungle or just a coincidence?

Yes! The Lost Diary fans are loyal! (Daniel was on TMZ live the other day... Mike made the comment about TLD readers.)

@fanolost...You have heard the saying, "the wrong place at the wrong time," which fits that bad things happen to good people.

That famous quote is from General Omar Bradley's Congerssional testimony in May 1951. The full text is " The wrong war, at the wrong place, at the wrong time, with the wrong enemy ". Definitely applies to Lost, don't you think ?

Ok, so here are a couple of things i wanted to mention/get feedback on.

First, remember when Ben went to visit Widmore and basically said that since he couldn't kill him, he was going to kill his daughter? Ok, so why 'can't' they kill each other? I think there is something to this, but i need help unravelling it.

-Widmore wanted Ben killed. Just for kicking him off the island? Widmore did that to himself, he knew it. I think it has something to do with being able to get back to the island once booted.
-Ben declared he 'couldn't' kill Widmore. why not? physically could not do it, or was told that it was against the rules?
-so Widmore wanted his predecessor dead, Ben couldn't kill widmore, but Ben killed Locke.
-after Ben killed Locke, MIB found his loophole. After a former leader killed the current leader, MIB found his loophole.

I think that whatever experiment or game or whatever it is that Jacob and MIB are engaged in have rules that must be followed. My guess, based on the conversation on the beach between the two, is that these two are trying to dis/prove the existence of good in humanity,but that seems a little lame for my taste, i think it would be a disappointing reason for the show.

So why? What did that conversation between the two of them mean and why are they using these people in this way? Gah! this show is going to kill me.

@ Lizzy:

Nice observation. Remember, Whidmore and Ben can't kill each other...neither can Jacob and FLOcke...what's the connection between these two duos...?

Here is something cool that I read a few days ago; It's better to have loved Lost than never to have loved at all.

I'm not so sure MIB is Smokie. I remember that Smokie was described as the security system for the temple, if that is the case, how would the ash keep Smokie out of the temple, as we assume the temple people were trying to do? Maybe Smokie is a tool to be USED by MIB, Jacob or the likes of Ben (A leader of the Others) as he was able to summon Smokie, though he did seem reluctant to do so.

fanolost - I saw the dharma logo on the shark too!

Please, please, can someone clear up if Smokie is MIB, or Locke. Didn't Cuse and Lindelof make that clear to Jimmy on his show.

@duffy: I was thinking the same thing about Ben going in innocent (and he won't remember anything) and coming out "evil"..now Sayid goes in "evil" and was carried out very similar to what Christ looked like on the cross, so maybe he's good now? Also did anyone see the Last Supper photo shoot? There are 3 released teaser posters that are supposed to hold clues to this season.
Here's one and two: http://www.aceshowbiz.com/news/view/00029892.html

and number 3:
http://www.bscreview.com/2010/01/lost-last-supper-take-3/

@LostLover - the shark... HA!

@LostLover and SK - I don't believe Smokie is MIB. I'm sticking with Monstah somehow being 'of Flocke' - or controlled by...

We know it can be controlled because Ben did it.

SK - here's the Kimmel segment, broken into two parts - and the question is discussed in the second vclip:
http://watching-tv.ew.com/2010/02/03/jimmy-kimmel-solves-lost/

Long Time Reader...First time poster...I do believe Jacob is in Sayed. A lot of people were shotting this theory down because MIB didn't have to takeover JL's body, but MIB is not dead...Jacob is. If Jacob is not in Sayed's body, I'm really curious to see why Sayed was dead.

@ Fanolost: Darlton definitively said Locke is the Smoke Monster...now we know MIB was looking for a loophole to kill Jacob. And we know when Ben was gonna kill Jacob, he said to Flocke, I see you found your loophole. Ergo...Flocke is Smokie is MIB. Right?

Okay, so here's my 2 cents even though no one asked. If Flocke is SMokie, Smokie must be MIB because Jacob referenced their conversation about the loophole in the statue:

LOCKE: Hello, Jacob.

JACOB: Well, you found your loophole.

Plus, I think in the enhanced episode they said FLocke was MIB, but I can't be sure because they don't have the enhanced transcripts up on lostpedia anymore.

@LostLover, smokey was described as a security system by a crazy french woman who had been stranded on the island for 16 years. I am not sure how much stock I put in her definition.

The Dharma logo on the shart was a nod to the observant viewers of the show. It was previously spotted when Sawyer and Mike were stranded on the pieces of the raft. The Writers claimed it shouldnt have been on there, that production slipped it in as a joke. Nice of them to rehash the joke again in this episode.

@fanolost, I guess I am destined to be the yin to your yang... :) I firmly believe without a doubt Smokie = MiB = Flocke. I had always believed MiB = Flocke, and that Smokie was seperate from him. But in this episode they told us Flocke = Smokie. So to me, they are all one in the same.

Ben was able to summon Smokie, but he had no contol over it. But it is not like Smokie was ever going to hurt him, since he needed Ben to fulfill his loophole plan.

OK, here's my take on the whole Smokie=FLocke=MIB deiscussion. After Smokie merks Jacob's "army," FLocke tells Ben something along the lines of "Sorry you had to see me like that." That is FLocke telling Ben that he is Smokie...Otherwise why would FLocke say "Sorry you had to see ME like that." I don't see how Smokie and FLocke AREN'T one and the same...

Okay, so now that most of us agree that Flocke=Smokey=MIB, does anyone have an idea of where (or when?) Smokey's home is? And why he can't go there yet??? Now that Jacob is "dead", why can't MIB just go home?

@ Saffyreblue - I was wondering the same thing. Now that Jacob is seemingly dead, why doesn't the game just end? What else is there to do?

Like... The Father, The Son, And the Holy Spirit.

Perhaps Smokie's home has been infiltrated...like the people at the temple. If they surround the temple with ash (or with a supersonic fence), Smokie can't get in...Just a thought...

I don't think Smokie's home is the temple. I think he stays there, but that's not the home he is referring to. Wasn't Smokie recently in the temple when he judged Ben and Ben saw his daughter? I thought that happened inside the temple.

Mr. F - I remember either a Nestor Campbell/Richard) saying Smokie was the security system for the temple in one of the recap episodes. Good point about Ben being needed to fulfill the plan.

I think I'm going to side with those who say Smokie = MiB = FLocke. We know that FLocke turned out to be Smokie, and because of Jacob's saying "You found a loophole." to FLocke, when the MiB told him one day he'd find a loophole, in my mind at least, they are all one and the same. Now to just figure out home...

Mr. F - ying/yang - it's actually not a bad duo...

@saffreyblue - well, ok... I guess I wasn't piecing together Jacob saying to Flocke 'you found the loophole...'

hhhmmm = unless he was speaking to Ben? Did we see Flocke answer this (am I remembering him say 'yes I did?'). Anyone confirm?

So if this is so: then we've got a TRINITY... ugh... three-in-one - MIB, Smokey, body of Locke (or someone, I mean it is a body)... I could go on...

@Anon - I don't think Jacob and MIB are the top players, I think they are but 'pawns' in a greater game.

So just because there has been a game change, doesn't mean the game is over.

I am still trying to figure out who the biguns are... are they Djinn types (Mr. F...) are they gods of sorts or ancient whatevers messing with souls.

Game = cycle. I think this has been going on a long time... and the eventual end is when the progress (that Jacob has spoken of) finally progresses enough to effect a change.

I think.

Shout out to whomever spotted the trinity thing... we're thinking same... oh it's SK!!!!

pardon my spelling, messed up "ying" and "shark" in the same post. Doh!

LOCKE: Hello, Jacob.

JACOB: Well, you found your loophole.

LOCKE: Indeed I did. And you have no idea what I've gone through to be here.

Some ideas of maybe where home could possibly be for FLocke/Smokie/MiB might possibly be (and yeah, at this point I'm just throwing out locations on the Island) the Ruins where Ben tried to get Locke to kill Anthony Cooper, the underground cavern that has the donkey wheel, or possibly the volcano. Maybe there are some more underground tunnels like what we saw where Jughead was housed in the 70's that might be where FLocke resides. I'm not too sure at this moment, just throwing suggestions out.

@ Fanolost:

Flocke did answer Jacob: here it is -

JACOB: You like it? I did it myself. It takes a very long time when you're making the thread, but, uh... I suppose that's the point, isn't it?

LOCKE: Hello, Jacob.

JACOB: Well, you found your loophole.

LOCKE: Indeed I did. And you have no idea what I've gone through to be here.

BEN: Have you met before?

LOCKE: In a manner of speaking. [Whispers] Do what I asked you to, Ben.

JACOB: Benjamin... whatever he's told you, I want you to understand one thing. You have a choice.

BEN: What "choice"?

JACOB: You can do what he asked, or you can go, leave us to discuss our... issues.

Ben only followed Flocke because he was manipulated by Smokie aka Flocke aka MIB who appeared to him as Alex and demanded he follow "Locke" or she would destroy him. After that, Ben did whatever Flocke commanded.

@LSK, if I recall correctly Flocke was talking to Ben about the real Locke. About how he was the only one of the survivors who did NOT want to leave the island. Then a little later on Flocke says something like I want to do what Locke never wanted to do. Which I take means leave the island. Maybe the island is like a prison for MiB/Smokie?

Interesting read on "Djinn"....

One of the biggest manipulations of the Jinn is through visions. Through these visions the Jinns are more likely to lead people away from the worship of Allah then any other way. When a person sees a vision in front of his eyes it is something which is very hard to explain away. Only by having knowledge of the world of the Jinn and conviction in Allah, can a person fight such a trial. The countless numbers of visions of Jesus Christ and the Virgin Mary over the centuries has been a popular choice for the devils. It almost seems as if leading Christians astray is the most easiest trick for the Jinns! Not only are Christians fooled by these visions, but often the Jinns possess and begin to talk from their voices. To the Christians this is known as the tongues of the Angels and thus a proof for their faith. However, the amount of unintelligible nonsense and rubbish which is heard is a clear proof that this is in fact the tongues of the devils! For other people, visions of their parents or relatives are commonplace. By taking on the form of peoples parents, the Jinns can convince people that the souls of dead people still mix with the people of the earth. This is why so many people believe in ghosts.

I know Ben is flummoxed at this point - but I am not counting him out as still being the BEN we wagoneers all know and love.

I think he's being quite the sponge at this point, trying to learn as much as he can -

Thank you Mr. F. and saffyreblue for confirming Flocke did indeed say 'yes I did.'

True, just wanted to get off the Island, unlike Locke... okay, throwing out original ideas. :)

Eh, I'd rather do this than my meanial job every day. ;)

don't you think not-locke has to be able to travel around to know what "real" locke said at his death when Ben strangled him? mabye "not-Locke" is related to Ben. as much as we all know ben doesn't want to be now. but mabye ben was the "not-locke" vessle but the black shirt dude figured he needed "locke" as the vessel" if hes' going to get any of these folks to believ ehim. b/c they won't believe ben (the oceanich 6 left on the island). now the non-lock has a better chance

@fanolost yesterday 3:52

Jack or John is not possessed by MIB?

and at your request I changed my handle.

@ Glee...the 1st (LOL)
Neither Jack nor John is "possessed" by MIB. The producers were crafty in their answer. They were asked if MIB is possessing JL. The answer was no. And we all know he is no possessing him because we saw JL's dead body on the beach. MIB is impersonating/cloning JL's body. :)

Maybe the island is like The Donkey Wheel to reach other other universes, but you have to go to the temple adn get "changed" in order to do it. thats how Jacob was able to go from being inthe cab with hurley to being on the island with him so easily. like the donkey wheel, just on a bigger scale, although now as i type this thought it sounds dumb cause i just forgot my points and evidence. :( anyways i was always kinda rooting for a alternate universe explaination, which seems what is going on now (but who knows until the end :) ) because it thought it was SO odd that all of the main characters were connected off the island.. always popping up near eachother. like desmond and jack meeting at the stadium when they were running, desmond learning that he had to enter those number from teh guy that taught sayid to torture, claire and jack having the same father, kate meeting up with sawyers babies momma.. its like 6 degrees of speration.. except instead of kevin bacon its the island.

BenWaggoners...ONWARD!
Our sneaky little Ben is being very observant about all he sees around him...he obviously is feeling quite a haze of emotions filtering through: guilt and shame, for being so easily manipulated; shock, at the outcome of his own actions; and somewhere, the wheels are turning swiftly and feverishly...developing a plan for righting his world, and proving that he is, indeed, destined to lead the Island. Ben will hold the key to the fall of MiB...

I know I asked this in a previous post but I can't get the thought out of my head. First, is it always Jack that we see at the beginning of each season? Focus is always on his eyes...what he sees? We've always known that Jack is important but is he the ultimate importance? If so, maybe instead of concentrating so heavily on Flocke, Jacob, and Ben, we should go with an angle that's Jack-centric? Any thoughts? Just curious.

I was talking to Twistie this AM and I thought of something. Does the island have its own identity? Everyone talks about saving the island but does the island have its own representative other than the two who are fighting over it? Maybe smokey is his rep?

Smocke (smokeylocke) wants to go home. Where should home be isn't the island home? but the island can move too. Maybe the loophole is that MIB exploited smokey and ben's deep seated desires and fears. the producers indicate that Jacob may not be a good guy. But maybe it is more complex like he is the superego and moral impostition on the island's "id" of instinct and pleasure. MIB is the ego whose reason and common sense says 'don't trust them humans'

why not add psychiatry to the mix it is fun theorizing. most likely wrong though :)

eh who knows.

@Glee...the 1st -- Island has it's own identity? I think I like this idea. Have to mull it over but you may be on to something.

all very interesting theories. i am sticking with mib=smokie. Flocke did say to Ben in the statue when he called him the monster - let's not resort to name calling. he didn't deny it. genie's are often trapped by others to be used - (trapped in a bottle) and so home must be off the island i would think. he does keep telling them they are free - to Bram etc. like they should be happy they are free of Jacob...

OK, I agree MIB=Flocke=Smokey. Now, one quick question. In order for MIB's plan to work, Locke would have to be dead going back to the island. First off, how did he convince Locke to kill himself. Secondly, how did he convince Ben to kill Locke after talking Locke out of killing himself. If MIB is that powerful, that's really a large loose end to just hope it works out. (and it wouldn't have unless Locke mentioned Eloise Hawking)

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Genie

can be good or evil

also another factor is perspective. there are some acts that are clear cut evil acts however other than that a large portion of the issue is your perspective and how you are seeing the situation

Doesn't Not-Locke say to Ben after Smokie made his very violent appearance, "I'm sorry you had to see me that way" or something to that effect, which of course immediately confirms that Not Locke, MIB, and Smokie are indeed one in the same!

And Not-Locke was nowhere to be seen during that violent confrontation...only Ben and Jacob's unfortunate security guys.

richard told locke when flashing through time that he would have to die. and that future locke told him - after he got the bullet out

i really enjoyed Hurley's lines all throughout the episode. Sayid is coughing up blood and Hurley says oh God this is gross. like sayid really needs to hear that right before he is going to die.

@Glee...the 1st -- Who's running whom? Is the Island the "supreme being"? Dictating what Dharma, Others, Otherton, Losties, Tailies actions were / are? If I'm going down wrong roads here, please forgive me. My head hasn't worked quite right since three weeks ago when a gunman came to where I work and pointed a locked & loaded pistol at me. I was able to get away and call 911 but before the police could get here, the gunman came down the hallway and aimed his weapon at 4 other employees. Fortunately he didn't shoot anyone (but the police shot him in the ass...how appropriate!) Anyhoo...another place of business in my building received a death threat today and now my office is locked down. Wow! Sorry for the babble.

But, Locke didn't kill himself...remember? It was Ben that killed him after talking Locke out of suicide. Does MIB have direct control over Ben?

then Jacob tells him he died an hour ago and Hurley says I'm sorry dude that sucks and Jacob says thanks. gotta love that comic relief

ben was always threatened by locke - he told richard that locke was trouble and he said why do you think i tried to kill him. he only needed eloise hawking's name i suppose. and if he already knew they had to recreate the flight...still too many pieces of the puzzle missing there.

something i found interesting was when Jack heard about Jacob from Hurley he asked Who is Jacob? isn't it interesting after all this time Jack still hadn't heard anything about Jacob or he was too busy running around trying to fix everything to hear about him. I am sure Locke would have told him.

I guess I just see it as a major loose end (as of right now...who nows what happens latter in the year) that MIB just left to happenstance (sp?). What if Locke wasn't dead? He wouldn't have been able to impersonate him then.

Previously we assumed that Locke had to be dead to "closely resemble" the original flight (i.e. Locke dead instead of Christian). Obviously, Locke had to be dead in order for MIB to impersonate him.

Flocke did tell Jacob he wouldn't believe how far he had to go to find his loophole.
@jaytch - that is awful. i hope your work has some counselors available to assist you all.

i also like how hurley tells the japanese guy when he asked him if he looked in the guitar case...maybe

Hey guys, don't get so focused on the island that you forget to follow the stream.

jaytch my god what a story glad you made it out ok!

@ Jaytch:

My sympathies...

@ Glee:

The island as it's own identity...I kinda like that...But, as was mentioned above...who's in charge of who?

@Jim, this should be fun to try and type up...

It was Flocke who told Richard to tell Locke that he had to die. When Ben left the FDW off its axis, the island was jumping around in time. It flashed forward in time, when Richard came out of nowhere and helped Locke remove the bullet in his leg.

Flocke later confirmed this again, when Flocke was being Christian, "that's why they call it a sacrifice John". He told Locke he had to die in order to bring back the O6.

Flocke didnt convince Ben to kill Locke, Ben made that call on his own. Ben was ready to help Locke return to the island so Ben could tag along. But once spilled the beans on Eloise being the person to get them back, Ben killed Locke so Ben could be the leader of the island again. (note, they also mentioned this in the 1 hr recap prior to this episode).

You are right, if Locke doesnt die then MiB's master plan falls apart in a hurry. But as luck would have it, Locke died and the plan was put in play.

well put Mr F. i was trying to figure out how to state that but i was confusing myself int he process

@jaytch, wow! Glad you're okay, and that everyone else is. And that they took him down like that.

I do think that whoever said that the MIB can only impersonate dead people is on to something! Also, is it possible that the island sinks at the conclusion of the story? Maybe that will be the outcome. And do you think the island is keeping the MIB and that he just wants to die (as Michael did when the island kept him alive) Maybe neither Jacob nor MIB can have closure until the people brought to the island do the right thing? And when they succeed, the island sinks...Just a thought...

Thanks everyone:) :) :) I'll be o.k. just really through me for a loop.

Maybe home for Flocke is Heaven.......

@jaytch...I'm glad they got the bad guy. Right place , right time, dude, to make the 911 call. Whew!

Oops..."threw" not "through". Geez...Tootsie, I think I need a drink!

@sk -- Thanks...and that's "dudette" :)

Who is in charge of who and that power struggle seems to be a huge theme in lost. others vs. us army, dharma vs others. others vs losties. ben vs. whidmore both of whom claim to care about what is best for the island and take turns doing jacob's bidding. remember we always thought jacob healed the dying but he didn't (except in the case of locke after he was pushed out of the window?) but the stream in the temple did. As SK said we focus on the island but what about the stream. Obviously MIB or Jacob does not directly control it. Even after little ben was saved I think Richard said "the island wanted him" not Jacob wanted him.
Richard also said he didn't report to ellie or whidmore. He didn't say who but it could be jacob or the island. All we know is that he is an advisor and has been for a very long time.

The key line that the whole show Fringe now revolves around from season 2 of Fringe is.."The is more than one of everything" Maybe Locke is Locke, and he has learned to become the smoke monster. Locke the dead body was to replace Jacks Father not to bring Locke back to life. Locke may have left the island when he turned the donkey wheel but maybe his soul stayed there until he could return to do what needed to be done. That all sounds like it doesn't make sense but, here's where i'm going Locke's soul was now able to transfer guilt to Ben via Ben being burdened with Killing Jacob. Thus Redemption for Locke's Soul because Ben now feels the guilt he should have felt when he offed Locke in the hotel. There is still unfinished business between Hawking and Widmore, and I cannot wait for that story to unfold. It will no doubt involve Farraday whom will give us another physicist view on this whole thing.....(what time and space that will take place in????IDK)

i just keep getting this feeling that Jacob's ladder is going to come into play somehow at some point. i just can't figure out how or explain it.

@ Jaytch wow that's crazy glad you're ok! Makes me kind of glad I work in a huge building w/lots of security...that is unless an EMPLOYEE comes in with a gun, we don't have to put our stuff thru xray.
Iam thinking about the comment about Jackcentric...LOST does seem to "see thru his eye a lot" and I think naming him Shepherd was intentional. I also have a feeling we'll see scenes we've already seen over and over ala Groundhog Day until the two alternate line conjoin or intersect. Look how many times they've shown Juliet get sucked down the hole

@victoria...In the preview videos, there is a shot of Sawyer? maybe, climbing down a mountain cliff on a make shift ladder. Just thinking.

Lost is being replayed on Space TV tonight at 9pm and tomorrow at 10 am. I will rewatch now that I have so many sources from the Lost Diary... clues to look for. Feeling a lot less lost now.

When Flocke pulled the stake out of Bram's chest, the same instant, he (Flocke), coughed rather loudly. Like it was connected to the action he just did. I just watched it 3 times and it must have a connection. He snapped the steak with his foot and pulled the body off, coughed, then dragged the body to the center of the room then went on his John Locke tangent about being weak and pathetic.

Stake not steak, I am hungry...

Everyone on the show has shifted or changed, except for Frogurt ! He is still as obnoxious off the island as he is on.!

Next episode is called "What Kate Does" there was the Kate centric episode called "What Kate Did" so for all the Kate haters, will there be a "When Kate Dies" ??

Things I thought while watching premiere:

"No! Not Sayid!"
"Wow. That Kate is some tomboy."
"That set looks like a cheesy reiincarnaiton of Indiana Jones'Temple of Doom."
"The ankh looks even cheesier."
"...and the Emmy goes to,Terry O'Quinn."

Naveen Andrews said in an interview from April 2007 that " coming to L.A., I have to say, was, without being to dramatic, a life-saver for me." Mmm!!!

@Jim: apparently MIB only likes to impersonate dead people that wear Christian Shepherd's shoes :)

Hope this makes sense. Remember when Jacob and Smokey where sitting on the beach watching the black pearl coming? Smokey said "It's always the same thing. The come, they fight, they corrupt, blah, blah, blah..it always ends the same." or something like that. Then Jacob says " No. It only ends ONCE. Everything else that happens is progress each time." or something like that. SO what if no matter what happens, whether the plane crashes or not, whether Shannon stays with her boyfriend...no matter what changes happen, you can't escape your destiny. They'll all still end up at the island one way or another. Each time they come to the island they handle the situations a little different (progress) until finally the out come is different and then it all ENDS

Variable- A symbol that stands for a value that may vary.

There was an episode last season called “Variable” and this last episode was titled LA X. The writers said the X was set apart for a reason. So maybe another episode will have a Y in the title.

Bernard to Rose on the plane: " I missed you beautiful. "

On my clock, Jack threw the bomb down the hole at 9:11 pm.

Is that Frogurt, sleeping, with an eye mask, and a smirk on his face, between Locke and Boone on the plane ?

Locke is in a silver box on the island... Is there a silver lining to be looking forward to. I hope that it shines for Locke.

Red is not Hurley's color. Sideways he looks a wee bit heavier. Too much experimenting with salad dressing maybe ? PS... Hurley is the chosen one I think...and Ilana.

Sawyer to Kate, " Welcome Aboard " and " take care " in the elevator.

The temple 6...Hugo, Jin, Kate, Jack, Sayid, and Sawyer.

Is Jin trying to sabatoge it from the get go...with the $ at the airport.

How long was Sayid held under the water ?

Evil Locke...The key ? The loophole...I am now rooting for Ben!

Christian gone AWOL... Is it time to re-boot, or kick it up a notch !

Kimmel is advertising the bobbleheads of Faraday, Richard , and Edgar Halliwax for sale on his site... interesting!

so when richard went to visit lil locke and he picked the knife - was that fortelling of the knife that was used to kill jacob that he was cleaning afterwards. and that is why he chose the knife and richard got upset and said he wasn't ready. if richard would have followed his instinct things might have turned out different.

When Richard showed Locke things as a young boy and John picked the knife, that is when Richard knew that Locke was not the one... and he left Dodge City fast. It should have been Ben that he accepted at that early age. Ben should have had the chance to go to science camp. Ben now has street cred.

Regarding Locke needing to come back dead so MiB could impersonate him; good point that this is too big a thing for MiB to _hope_ it happens.

This implies to me that Eloise might have some link to MiB as she specified Locke had to be in the coffin.

Could be Jacob/Others v Eloise & Widmore / MiB.

@ victora, good point re: the knife - seems to have been an indicator of what would happen. Locke's obsessed with knives actually.

@ sk, they held him under for ages, a bit excessive I thought. I get the impression the main guy loves a bit of drama though, what with his leather gillet and gratuitous use of Latin.

When they called Hurley in and he was cutting the Bonzais I couldn't help but think of Karate Kid though :-)

I think Jessica's onto something (similar to WHH). The plane landed safely. But, Christian's body wasn't on the plane. Will Jack have to fly back to "retrieve" the body? Will he be on the same plane as Jin and Sun when they are denied entrance to the US? Will others need to fly somewhere and they all end up crashing, just not on flight 815? Will it be flight 1623 (getting closer to the final Lost number)?

BTW, I've always read the Diary comments in the past, but I've never actually conributed...This is pretty addictive!

@ victoria: The whole Knife thing with Locke is significant. On the plane in the ALT timeline, he meets Jack because they lost Jack's father, and the airline also lost an entire suitcase full of Locke's knives.

I think MIB impersonating dead people is something the Dharma people had to know about. They were awefully careful to make sure all dead bodies were buried on the island. Almost "obsessive" about it.

@LostLover -- Thanks:)

@Jim - I'm with you on thinking that the fact that no one has gotten out of the airport in LAX is significant.

true they were insistent on burying the bodies when sawyer killed the 2 that killed Paul. i still wonder what that was all about. were they trying to take paul back and he refused so they killed him? traitor status? romeo and juliet reference but older - 2 warring tribes

yes the knife/knives are def a reoccuring theme becoming more important.

i keep going back to the women not being able to keep babies to term - having 80 year old uteruses...it seems it has to be that Jughead was causing it? they put it underground but DI built New Otherton over the top. but if that was the case WHY wouldn't richard tell them?

Two things just came to me...1)when Jacob gave Hurley the guitar case with the note, he knew that Sayid would need to be saved back then. How did he know that?
2)notLocke told Ben that Locke was the only one that wanted to stay on the island, but that's no so because Rose always wanted to stay on the island too

@AmarilloSlim...I was thinking that Sayid was held underwater for 108 seconds, 108 !!! Can anyone else confirm this.

@Victoria - 80-yr. old uterus' - I forgot... so maybe there are island women that are more like Richard - never age outwardly, but are old...

@jaytch - omg. and I'm glad you're ok.

Burying bodies is very significant - and I'm not surprised Sawyer did it tout suite for Juliet.

For all you Sawyer/James lovers - and those who like his quipping - I give you:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=or_BGsW7Mgg

@sk ha good spot.

Just had a look now & you're right. He's under for exactly 108 seconds - they even keep him under for about 10 seconds after he stop moving...

I wonder if it means anything, or if it's just the producers having fun?

I'd be concerned that you spotted that though ;-)

@AmarilloSlim...Oh ya, I am concerned about such a morbid preoccupation with Sayid's death. LOL !!!

@fanolost -- Thanks:)

@sk it can't just be a coincidence though.

I wonder if they have different sized egg timers for each of the numbers :-)

For someone that was recovering from being " badly burned " in a Russian hospital, Ilana looks none the worse for wear. Jacob's healing touch maybe...And why is Ilana sporting a wrapped band aid around her left wrist now ?

I completely agree with everyone about the fact that none of them have left the airport yet...I do think that they will end up on another flight together at some point in the future...
Jack will need to fly back to Sydney to try to find his father's body, Sun and Jin will be denied entrance to the US because of the money/business issue, Charlie will be deported because he was arrested with drugs, Claire will get to the adoption agency, find out the couple she is expecting doesn't exist, and go back home to Australia...I'm not sure about the others yet, but the writers managed to get them all on the Ajira flight, so it shouldn't be too hard :)

Twistie and I have a new theory which is that the MIB as we have conceived him does not exist! Maybe the MIB as we know it is just smokey taking a human form in order to converse with Jacob. The only time we have seen him was with Jacob and as we know smokey has taken the form of a human the person knows (ecko's brother, locke, and possibly Christian) in order to converse with the person.

This would fit with what the producers said is that Locke's body is not possessed by MIB which is correct two fold because it is not locke's body being possessed and also not by the MIB because he is only a facade chosen by smokey.

The only thing that does not fit is that he offered the MIB some of the fish he cooked but that could just be Jacob's sense of humor?

I like that idea. As I recall, MIB didn't eat any of the fish.

could both jacob and mib be former leaders of the island and that's why they were not allowed to kill each other?

could both jacob and mib be former leaders of the island and that's why they were not allowed to kill each other?

Maybe he couldn't attack Jacob because Jacob rolls around in ash every morning or keeps some in his pocket which prevent smokey from attacking.

i just saw a promo for next epi...
SPOILER ALERT________
i forgot if those are considered spoilers here

some don't want to see anything about the next one til the actual episode so consider yourself warned

so there was a shot of Sayid and Dogan. Dogan had a red hot poker and Sayid was not too happy about it... wonder what that is about

then Dogan is talking to Jack and says "this is your chance to redeem yourself"...for what? for dropping the bomb and all that? hmmm

and kate - everyone's fav is talking in a group with Jin and talking about Who do you care about and Jin asking her the same question - all going back to perspective - Jin's purpose is to get back to Sun, Kate's is to figure out where Claire is etc...

But then Kate hits someone? does she hit Jin? i can't tell...

@Glee & Twistie, I can buy that. I think Smokie is simply Smokie, and is able to take human form. I would guess the Writers didnt want to reveal that was smokie with Jacob at the beach so they made him appear human.

Smokie's true form is the black smoke we see, all other people and animals he/it appears to be is just a facade.

Christian, MiB guy, Locke, Yemi, Ana Lucia and Alex are the ones I believe Smokie has appeared as so far.

The jury is still out (for me) on Dave, Hurley's make believe friend.

i agree it doesn't follow pattern but maybe MIB was trying to get rid of Hurley and was manipulating him to kill himself so he wouldn't be able to talk to Jacob...

did smokey every scan Hurley? i don't remember it but how else would it know about Dave? have to think on that some more

@Glee the 1st, Twistie, and yes Mr. F (hold on cuz...)

I totally agree Smokey is an entity unto itself and takes on whatever it needs to in order to do whatever it needs to. And exposes others (Alex, etc) when needed.

@Victoria - Kate's purpose... um, to be with Jack, no Sawyer, no Jack, no Sawyer, no Jack... pppfffttt - I HATE KATE... ;)

i know everyone hates kate but cmon this season let's try to have some compassion - summon the dalai lama if necessary.

she did the right thing eventually - taking aaron to his grandmother was the right thing to do in one sense but in another if ben or widmore or whoever wants to get to him they know where he is. kate sincerely does seem to want to find claire tho she is definitely easily distracted. who could blame her - what female wouldn't be? ok so that's the only defense of kate that i will attempt. she couldn't really find kate back in 77 and also in her defense a lot has been going on to assist others in survival. she does honestly seem to care about others tho i can see why people would think she only cares for her own motives. if her guilt helps answer the claire question then good use of guilt...

oops i meant claire back in 77

Hey, idk if this has been mentioned before, but why was FLocke disappointed in the people at the beach camp?

there are some theories that MIB is disappointed in people following jacob as a false idol. believing that he is good and MIB is evil. sour grapes or is his for real? it seem D&C want us to remain open to it could all flippy flop...

here's a question about Hurley on the plane: if he considers himself to be the luckiest person ever, I'm assuming the incident on the deck never happened, which means he never went to the mental institution, which means he never heard that guy repeating the numbers...so what numbers did he win the lottery with?

@ victoria

I agree that the "KATE bashing" on this site is overdone, and she is/was an "easy target" (pun intended)

She has become less whiny and irritating now, and the whole Jack/Sawyer/Jack/Sawyer thing is really as much their fault as it is hers.......

While she certainly is not my favorite character (that would be DESMOND) OR even my favorite female character (that would be ROSE), she fills a niche.

Let's go with the premise that NO ONE likes KATE, and we do not have to say it anymore!

(I am glad that the new season has started, and love all of your comments, critiques, theories and ideas!)

just wanted to add something else...

Richard said he saw all of the people in the photo Sun showed him die. I would like to know what he was talking about. Plus juliet died and we are theorizing that 'it worked' and she is now back in LA or wherever. I wonder if the losties on the island have to die in order to get back to this other timeline? Perhaps the other timeline people will remember everything the instant they die on the island-like just as Jack is operating on John or something.

Also, i really want to know how the others got to the island, and how the military got to the island and how the DI got to the island.

hmm i guess i thought richard meant when he said he watched them die was in the purge when ben killed all the Dharma Initiative except for Ethan.

DI was funding by Widmore???

Hi. Long time reader, first time poster. Did anyone notice the oxygen/helium tank that was hanging from a stick being held up by two other sticks as Jack, Hurley, Jin & Kate were being lead to the water inside the temple? They each walked past it. Just thought it looked a little odd and out of place. Kind of reminded me of Jughead.

Did you know that the actress who plays Ilana is named Zuleikha Robinson. Her first name means " beautiful one ". Kind of fitting because of her recovery from the burns.

Was it Ilana's objective to get Sayid aboard Flight 316 because of Jacob. She had to deliver him to the island so Jacob would be able to take over Sayid's body for himself. I mean, if MiB can do it with Locke's body, why not Jacob being resurrected in Sayid.

What if MiB's modus operandi was to take over Locke's body, because he knew that Locke wanted to stay on the island. He has turned Locke from a man of faith to his evil alter ego. He knew that he could corrupt Locke, so that is why he picked him.

Jacob, on the other hand, picked Sayid. Once Sayid atoned for his sins, on his death bed with Hurley, Jacob saw that Sayid could in fact be saved spiritually.

i guess i thought that thing hanging up was for martial arts training or boxing like a punching bag of sorts...

question: any comments on why NOT LOCKE cut a piece of the carpet and wiped the knife? Why not wipe it on the carpet? Why keep the piece? Not sure on this, but didnt' they later find the knife crusted in blood?

Something that's been on my mind-- Does anyone else remember that way back when Jack, Kate, and Sawyer were captured by the others (polar bear cages, Ben's spinal surgery, etc), there was a list of names. Ben seemed to have written them down.

Is the list from this episode the same list previously seen?? If so, I believe we originally thought the list had names on it of people that would be useful to the Others.. Maybe now, the real reason will be revealed.

The timeline does not matter...but it does.

http://www.nytimes.com/interactive/2010/01/31/arts/television/20100131-lost-timeline.html?ref=television

Oh I've missed your posts!
You make me laugh each time...tell me about the Previously on Lost -- I mean, Frank Lapidus' lines.

Hi - I'm another long time reader but never posted - Just something that keeps being said that I have a thought on - the idea of John Locke's body being 'taken over' by mib - it hasn't... mib has simply taken his 'form' not his actual body - his body is on the beach as we saw. I think mib has been taking what ever form he needs to to manipulate the Losties - christian to Jack for example. I also don't believe Jacob will 'take over' Sayid's body - for the same reason, mib doesn't need a 'body' but simply uses someones appearance to manipulate people. He uses either dead people (Locke, Christian) or people who have never been on the island - Kate's horse, the guy from the institute for Hurley (forgot his name!)- because these people get an instant reaction and grab the Losties attention and also it's less likely that the true person would turn up to show mib to be a fake IYSWIM.

I like the idea that since Sayid appeared to be or was dead he could have experienced the other time line, in a similar way Juliette did when she said to Sawyer they should 'go for coffee'.

I think eventually the 2 timelines will converge (somehow!) and the losties will have to choose which timeline becomes the real one.

Some questions - why, when the temple guy said there would be 'risks' if they tried to heal Sayid, did no one ask what those would be? Kate and Jin both gave Jack a strange look I thought, but didn't ask.. what where the risks?

Second a general question - I'm still really struggling why Aaron had to leave the island.. anyone?

Lovin S6 so far!

Jayne

@Ashley, the list Ben had on the dock was only 4 names... Jack, Kate, Hugo and James Ford. They let Hugo go, and Kate & Sawyer were used to manipulate Jack into doing the surgery. I believe this list was simply one of Ben's evil genius plans.

There have been numerous mentions of different lists of people. The one above I refer to as Ben's list, I dont believe it came from Jacob.

We also had the Others making lists of people to take from the crash. Goodwin and Ethan were supposed to make lists of survivors they wanted to take. Recall Ana Lucia killing one of them and finding a list of 9 people (The Other 48 Days).

Then there was a list referenced by Mikhail/Patchy when he spoke to Bea/Ms Klugh. Something about a list of "good" people, and he made mention Kate was NOT on that list.

The newest list at the temple, must have had Jin and Sayid on it as well. Making it different from Ben's list. I would assume this new list had something to do with the people Jacob touched off island. Big question... what about Locke, he was touched too?

And for the record... Mr.F hearts Kate Austin. She was listed as "Our Hero" on the audition pages. :)

OK,
It's come to my attention that Desmond had a wedding ring on - on the plane.

If so, then would this not be a verra different timeline than simply having not crashed onto island?

Discuss.

@Jayne

Hi. Good points about MiB - a lot of people here agree with this. Personally I think this is without doubt the case and I also don't think Sayid is Jacob for this same reason.

Interesting thought about Sayid though. That would be awesome if he's been in the alternative timeline and would really mess with the losties minds :-)

I always get frustrated that (particularly Jack & Kate) NEVER seem to ask questions that surely people would. I think it's partly the writing style, but yeah surely the first thing you would ask is 'what are the risks?'. Hopefully we will find out more about healing spring side effects this ep.

@ fanolost

Good question. The key thing to me is that the alternative timeline isn't just that the plane didn't crash. It's that the island has been underwater since 1977...so who know show many differences / knock-on effects this may have had...Widmore in particular must have a v different life.

@Jayne - this isn't much of an answer, but Ben was taken to the others, the same thing was told to them. Although I can't remember if Jack was there for that. Jack has now become a man of blind faith. Its an interesting switch.

Yeah, its already Monday again. Anyone see the Bud Light spoof on lost during the Super Bowl? I'ld stay on the island too!

@twistie - I loved that ad - cuz there was a dissing of a certain lostie... woo hoo!

I'd have been happy with drink carts full of BL...

@twistie, yeah, saw that ad, lol. That was a good spoof of them, and shoot, if the Island was equipped like that, who would want to leave?

Have read all of these comments---WOW! We NEED this coming week's episode to start resolving some of the questions raised.

I guess the writers must have done a good job in getting us all worked up at the start of the season with all our theories!

Something to ponder:
Desmond and the wedding ring on the plane----did he win the race and marry Penny???

I can't wait for tomorrow... the week almost went by fast.

It's possible that he might have won. With the Island sunken, he wouldn't have been brought there in the storm and may have been able to get through and win it all. He has to be married to Penny though... the writers can't be that cruel to us!

Or maybe there was no race? No need for a Widmore if the island isn't there for him to want to find?

Or maybe it's not Penny but another? I know, Des and Penny ... but still...

Just thought I'd throw it out there...

Shoot, for all we know, Widmore sunk with the Island, so there was no race from that... which could possibly mean no Penny, which would really suck. But anything is possible with these guys.

So, Yes race, hatch and yes rescued by Penny.
Yes married Penny
Yes back to island (because It’s not done with him yet)
Yes makes both timelines cross/collide somehow
Yes lives happily.

Huh, Maybe Desmond flashes with the Island whether he’s is on it or not.

I'm in a good mood today; this might have been very different yesterday. lol

@ Twistie

Glad you are in a good mood today!

My favorite character is DESMOND. As far as I am concerned, I am not really too concerned about what happens to any of the rest of the characters, as long as DESMOND's storyliune turns out good for him and his future is happy!

@fanolost...Above at 10:54 am when you said " Or maybe it's not Penny but another?". Reminds me of when Richard Malkin told Claire that " Aaron could not be raised by another. "
Another!... The temple group of people is another group of others on the island.

Is the reference to another, in this case, a person unrelated by blood. Is that why Kate left Aaron with his maternal grandmother.

The writers were on Jimmy Kimmel after the 2/2/10 episode and said it was revealed that John Locke is the smoke monster.

I also believe that smokie can take various forms of dead people, but maybe him taking a host body for long periods of time involves the body being dead prior to arriving on the island? John? Christian?

Who the heck knows, but I thought I would throw this out there.

I’m still on my Desmond thoughts here. Could it be that Desmond is special because he can flash sideways through alternate realities, not just timelines?

Hi SK - yeah... I don't know either. It just seems if the island is underwater at the time the plane flies over - and we don't know when it sunk - it could be that it's been there long enough the who Widmore is in this dream/timeline/universe is not the Widmore we know and thus could mean that whole lifeline is different.

If that's the case, then it's game on if Penny is even in the picture - and little Charlie too.

Course we'd need another 6 years to unravel that whole scenario - so I'm prolly fishing off the deep end.

Still, though, it's a cool thought...

Regarding Aaron and Claire - I'm not sure we ever knew what that meant exactly - and Kate left Aaron with grandma because she was leaving - and obviously there was no one to leave him with (other than Clementine and mom) - cuz she had no one but sorta Jack who was leaving as well...

@SK
Nice catch. An Other, but which other?

Posted by: Anonymous | February 8, 2010 12:59 PM
Sorry that was me

My out on the limb theory for the day concerns Brother Campbell. People usually keep framed photographs on their desk because it is a treasured family photo. Why is an Eloise and Brother Campbell picture at the monastery. Do you think that they are related... brother and sister.

They both had a hand in directing Desmond down his path, From meeting Penny to entering the sailing race to getting to the island.

Interesting thoughts about Desmond's storyline...I tend to think that if the island sunk in 1977, then Penny doesn't exist, or at least has never met her father...it's crazy to think about how many things would be different in everyone's pre-island lives without Widmore...I mean, his company controlled pretty much everything

Here's a wild thought:
What if MIB and Jacob are pawns in Valenzetti and Hanso.

Dharma was created in order to work on the numbers (yes those numbers) that countdown to the end of humanity - and save us.

And, don't you think some of the Temple people look a little like Hanso folk?

Widmore was also the only one (that we know about) that was exiled from the island. For a man of his stature that can be a colossel form of punishment.

Knowing that he cannot return to the island, being stripped of his power, only motivated him more to find the island.

His narcissism jumped into overdrive. After all, he is an executive entrepreneur and very little is known how he made his fortune.

@sk - what about Eloise? She was leader and now hangs at the Lamppost? Don't know if she's exiled but she's off island...

Once you leave the island, you are not supposed to be able to come back --- so, really, BEN is exciled as well.

What is going to happen to RICHARD?????

@fanolost...According to Lostpedia, Eloise left the island. I think that when Richard knocked her out it was to get her off the island. He said that he was trying to protect their leader and maybe her pregnancy.

Eloise was the former leader of the others and is the General Manager of the Lamp Post. Maybe she is still on a mission to course correct the universe.

@bb - except if the island wants you... like Jack, Kate, Sun, etc. they're back.

Charlotte came back. Miles.

I think the key is exiled. Ben is back.

Anyone notice Dr. Chang in the superbowl commercial? I loved the Lost spoof commercial!

Don't forget Michael as well.

Happy LOST Day everyone!

Sing along everyone:

TONIGHT, TONIGHT,

WON'T BE JUST ANY NIGHT;

TONIGHT WE'LL SEE OUR BEN and our JACK.

TONIGHT, TONIGHT.

WE'LL SEE DESMOND TONIGHT,

AND FOR US, THE AWESOME TEMPLE WILL BE BACK !!!!!

My prediction: Jacob is now is Sayid's body.

Let's hope that whatever Kate does in tonights episode is for the good of the Losties and the island.

Here is a very funny ABC promo of Lost and Desperate Housewives.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LgsjhxFKhBM

I'm too lazy to go check earlier posts but did someone say that the series finale was May 23rd? Can that be right...that's a Sunday?!

@jaytch - yes... Sunday the 23rd - 2 hours...

ack!!!!!

Do you think that this is a tie in to the numbers, or just to drive us a little bit crazy ?

@fanolost -- Thanks:)

It's hard not to look at Jacob in LOST as "God" and not picture him as the devil in Supernatural. Same character plays both.

What are we going to learn about the NUMBERS ???

Hey, just thought of something. Anyone remember the dream Claire had in Season 1? Where she was no longer pregnant and ran into a manifestation of Locke with one black eye and one white eye. I think he said something like "you gave him up now everyone suffers." In a way Claire gave Aaron up, and are they now all going to suffer? Was that FLocke saying that?

Think I'll be rewatching that episode (Raised by Another) tomorrow while at home for another snowday. If I never see snow again it'll be a wonderful day.

@LSK - you may be on to something...

snow day... enjoy! We had 8 inches (or less) and schools closed for three days... I just shook my head and thought... I'm not in NY anymore...

8 inches... oh how I wish it was just 8 inches here. We had 2 feet on Friday and Saturday, and are supposed to be somewhere from 8-20 inches today and tomorrow. All that stuff about DC getting pounded by lots of snow, completely ridiculous.

But yeah, gonna watch that and maybe figure out something about it. Were the writers foreshadowing much? ;)

Just a few more hours till LOST starts!

Hey, just thought something... Jin went to see his father before he and Sun left for flight 815. Didn't his father tell him to take Sun and start a new life in America once he had delivered the watches? Anyone else thing that that sack of money in Jin's suitcase was for him and Sun to start up new?

is kate is an Other... didn't she seem to have an excited grin in the temple when she saw movement...and then was once again captured first with no one else seeing? does she have any criminal past or defense training that has been revealed other than setting that fire? she sure has some good fight power (in the airport) for just an ordinary citizen. and why does she know how to 'track' so well?

@wavy...Kate learned her tracking skills from the man she thought was her biological father, Sergeant Major Sam Austen, when they went hunting together.

SEMI-SPOILER:

All I've really got to say right now is uh-oooooooh...

SEMI-SPOILER done.

Okay was the house that Kate took Claire to (the couple's house who was gonna adopt Aaron) the same house that Kate lived in with Aaron?

Did anyone catch that glance from Kate at the airport when she saw Jack standing outside and she was in the cab?

THis better not be shaping up to be a dream! I know they promised it wasn't but it kinda felt like it last night.

So...this probably has nothing to do with nothing but as I was watching last night a stray thought passed through my confused brain:) If we go with MiB (and Jacob?) can assume the likeness of dead people, then were the bodies we saw them in on the beach someone else's? Just a random thought:)

Interesting jaytch. Maybe this is why the dead bodies have to be buried, so they don't become infected. I can't wait to learn everything Miles really knows. Remember how he was with Claire after New Otherton blew up?

Claire blew up and wasn't buried. Now she's well, different.

We were all on to something last season regarding the 'burying' of bodies (and Sawyer burying Juliet so fast)... now it seems infection - but I'll say soul. Or something like that.

I don't buy Dogen saying 'dead' - because Ben isn't dead. Or it's dead in a way we don't understand yet.

And Claire isn't dead. Or is - in a way we don't understand yet.

Overall though, the pace of these new epis doesn't lead me to feeling we'll ever get things answered...

if so then why the open pit of dead dharmas? that is a whole zombie village waiting to come to life then.

Good point Glee1 :)

@ fanolost - I think that the pool didn't heal Sayid. He really died. I think Dogen was genuinely surprised when they told him Sayid came back to life. Because Sayid died and wasn't buried, he was "infected"

@ Glee the 1st - perhaps the gas was the poison that was in the pill but in gas form? Yeah, okay, kind of a stretch. Good point.

Serioiusly though, anyone, was the house Kate brought Claire to, the house that Kate lived in with Aaron?

I really felt pretty bad for Sawyer last night. Whats with Kate calling him James on a regular basis now?

Also, I had Princess Bride flashbacks last night...anyone else? Dogen = Billy Crystal's character.

This claire thing is really curious. the others saying she was infected but she is acting like rousseau.

maybe christian urged her to go into hiding so she wouldn't die in all of the power struggles. christian may have reported to the others that she was infected and he had her killed?

I will have to repost this once the new thread is up, but this is starting to remind me of that 70’s horror flick Burnt Offerings. In that movie a house consumes people and their souls in order to stay alive. Maybe the island is doing the same thing to stay ‘alive?

Also, they need to explain Locke’s dad. How did he end up on the island, did he really die before coming to the island like he thought, but if he did how did Sawyer kill him later? Was he buried I can’t remember?

I've read every comment since I found this site, but have never made one until now. With all this talk about burying the bodies before they're infected, what about Boone and whatever that chick's name was that got buried and right as they were dumping sand on her, her eye popped open?

Maybe Ben was given the meds to kill the "soul infection" or whatever it was when they brought him there. He was so wanting to join the Others that he would probably have taken it willingly.

I'm also afraid they're going to leave us many questions unanswered at the end.

and @Jenn3, I don't think that it was the same house. The entryway of the two houses were slightly different... I wondered the same thing and looked around.

I didn't like last nights epi as much as some others. Seemed like they gave me five or six new questions and one answer. Hopefully we'll get some knockout episodes coming up though!

Bit of a slow ep for me...but any episode is always good in it's own way.

Interesting (crazy) that Ethan was the doctor. Also that he didn't want to inject her - yet on the island he couldn't wait to inject her.

Also, I like Dogen now, he's one cool mofo.

One more thing... when Dark Claire popped out of the jungle, did anyone else get a reminder of Rousseau? Just the shotgun and slightly crazed look...

@2Shy

The girl who's eye opened was Nikki. She was actually paralysed by a spider bite but it wore off just as the losties (who thought they were dead) were burying her.

I actually love that episode...but so far I think the general consensus is that it was a 'filler' and has nothing to do with the main plot.